EPTLotV Beta Balance Update -- September 17 - Page 5
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Korea (South)19 Posts
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On September 18 2015 09:46 NKexquisite wrote: Oh man, the tears about not having everything autocast/autodone for you... If you quit/dont play b/c something like larvae inject isn't auto-cast, that's fine, this game isn't for you... Imagine these poor kids having to play Brood War when you couldn't select more than 1 building at a time and not more than 12 units at a time! They'd have gone bezerk! POOR KIDDIES go play HELLO KITTY Thanks Blizzard for removing auto-everything. Another step in the right direciton. Edit: To clarify, sure remove the mechanics all together, but this will take a ton of balancing that would take months and isn't really feasible (major change too late in the beta, would have had to been done earlier on to allow for adequate testing)... I played SC1 and BW since the day they were released. Not selecting more than 12 units was fine, limitation of those days that was a normal thing. And SC1 did NOT require injects. They didn't have to try to make things difficult, actually Blizzard was known for making games easily accessible but deep. Which is definitely not the design of SC2... I don't want everything auto, I don't mind things taking more APM even. I just don't want to spend my time using a poorly designed mechanic that does not feel natural nor fun. It's the one thing I hated about how Zerg felt since WoL beta. So I'm switching races. Even Blizzard stated that the manual inject mechanic well designed in the last community update... The fact that they would consider that is just plain retarded. | ||
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MiniFotToss
China2430 Posts
On September 18 2015 07:46 -NegativeZero- wrote: yep just as predicted, regardless of what blizz does with the macro mechanics, the majority of the responses will always be bitching and complaining. People ALWAYS whine, they think they can do better, they have "ALL THESE BRILLIANT IDEAS THAT THEY THINK CAN WORK" and it's fking irritating. God there's no pleasing them, people will ALWAYS WHINE. That will never change. Seriously, if y'all think you're so smart and David Kim is so dumb and useless, why don't y'all try designing a fking game, quit bitching.... try first and then see whether you have the right to bitch like this. You don't know how hard it is to develop a game with the complexity of Starcraft, what gives you the right to judge? You think their ideas suck? Well I'll be damned if you guys can even develop something as close as decent as Starcraft, seriously, so stop attacking Blizzard or David Kim. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
does that mean that if i inject a base twice with the same queen one after the other, that i will receive 2 sets of larva after the duration of the spell? or will a 2nd inject start after the 1st inject is finished spawning larva? if its the latter, im not sure what the purpose of this change is. if its the former im a happy camper. | ||
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crazedrat
272 Posts
I actually like the change since I got my 4th larvae back, I'm happy with the patch. I think it is the best compromise they could reach given the wide diversity of strong opinion on the topic. Now it's time to move forward and really solve the other problems. Infestor, swarm host, late game compositions - for Zerg this is where to start. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On September 18 2015 10:39 BluemoonSC wrote: so.. you can queue larva does that mean that if i inject a base twice with the same queen one after the other, that i will receive 2 sets of larva after the duration of the spell? or will a 2nd inject start after the 1st inject is finished spawning larva? if its the latter, im not sure what the purpose of this change is. if its the former im a happy camper. 2'nd inject starts when the first one ends If your injects have not been perfect or you have multiple queens, you can queue a second inject as you run in to start a fight instead of having no choice but to inject during or after the fight | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
like whats the point of queueing a larva inject if i need 50 energy to do it but im using my larva injects when they come off cd. so lets say i want to micro and not worry about spawn larva. i have to MISS a complete larva cycle in order for me to take advantage of the mechanic so that i can be on the map engaging my enemy for an extended period of time during a parade push. OR i have to invest extra money into queens that will need energy for creep spread and transfusing.. and it still takes time before i see any (marginal) benefit whatsoever. so basically, i have to do something NEGATIVE to my gameplay in order to receive any questionably beneficial effects from the new spawn larva. if blizzard's goal was to remove pointless mechanics, i just don't understand the decision to do it this way. i understood the auto inject and the decision to cut back on larva..but this is just mind boggling to me. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Archeon
3261 Posts
Yeah... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the energy regeneration from a Queen is barely enough to keep up the production of inject. So as long as I dont overproduce Queens on the scale of 1/2 bases, it actually doesnt make inject micro any less punishing. I still dont get the problem with the auto-cast aside from "auto-cast is evil". But I dont get why they reverted Mule either and didnt just make it static and give it a respawn timer. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On September 18 2015 11:04 The_Red_Viper wrote: bluemoon i think the idea is to build more queens per hatchery if you want an easier time with injects if that was blizz's goal, this mechanic makes it so that you're only putting yourself at a disadvantage if you're spending your money on queens at the point in the game where this would matter. they wanted to change the gameplay and remove pointless clicks while encouraging more micro. maybe i'm just disappointed, but i don't see how this change aligns with the design goals they've been stressing throughout the beta, nor do i see how this would make zerg macro 'easier' or 'better' for anyone just starting out in the game. IMO, put a 10s CD on inject and let them stack. reward players for good macro, allow new players (and even veterans) to learn to use the mechanic in a timely fashion without severely hindering their macro because they were doing the RIGHT thing on the map and spending their money the RIGHT way. and if their goal was to make it more equitable to the other mechanics, i just don't see it. its pretend macro, just like autocast. On September 18 2015 11:11 Blackfeather wrote: "We've implemented some cool changes for you to try out and think about and then reverted it all back to Hots. Tell us what you think!" Yeah... Correct me if I'm wrong, but the energy regeneration from a Queen is barely enough to keep up the production of inject. So as long as I dont overproduce Queens on the scale of 1/2 bases, it actually doesnt take any inject-micro away at all. right. this change does NOTHING for zerg macro that aligns with the design goals. | ||
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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
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crazedrat
272 Posts
On September 18 2015 11:13 BluemoonSC wrote: if that was blizz's goal, this mechanic makes it so that you're only putting yourself at a disadvantage if you're spending your money on queens at the point in the game where this would matter. they wanted to change the gameplay and remove pointless clicks while encouraging more micro. maybe i'm just disappointed, but i don't see how this change aligns with the design goals they've been stressing throughout the beta, nor do i see how this would make zerg macro 'easier' or 'better' for anyone just starting out in the game. IMO, put a 10s CD on inject and let them stack. reward players for good macro, allow new players (and even veterans) to learn to use the mechanic in a timely fashion without severely hindering their macro because they were doing the RIGHT thing on the map and spending their money the RIGHT way. and if their goal was to make it more equitable to the other mechanics, i just don't see it. its pretend macro, just like autocast. This change does NOTHING for zerg macro that aligns with the design goals. How ignorant can you be? It frees up APM during critical situations, it allows you to inject at any time - not just exactly when the larvae inject pops off, or some time after it's popped. So - if you have a 32 energy queen and the inject is half done, you can immediately use the inject and you will not have to recheck on exactly when it pops off - recheck at a time you may be engaged in a fight. Etc. It helps alot. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
So if you have a 32 energy queen and the inject is half done With 90% inject uptime, your queen will be at 0 energy (and ~11 energy when the inject is half done) so it doesn't affect the top level of play at least in the early-midgame | ||
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Beliskner
111 Posts
On September 18 2015 11:26 Cyro wrote: With 90% inject uptime, your queen will be at 0 energy (and ~11 energy when the inject is half done) so it doesn't affect the top level of play at least in the early-midgame Which is good, in the early game you've got your 4 larvae back but it requires you to macro normally, but moving to mid and late game you can swap in a high energy creep queen, queue up a few larva injects then move out for aggression and focus on micro. I think that's not too bad. | ||
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Thaniri
1264 Posts
On September 18 2015 07:04 Garemie wrote: [*]Zerg [list][*]Creep now recedes twice as fast. I'm back to playing SC2. This is the change that I've been bitching about for 4 years. | ||
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crazedrat
272 Posts
On September 18 2015 11:26 x wrote: With 90% inject uptime, your queen will be at 0 energy (and ~11 energy when the inject is half done) so it doesn't affect the top level of play at least in the early-midgame The whole point is to make it easier throughout the entire game, and easier for all skill levels. | ||
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Loccstana
United States833 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On September 18 2015 11:22 crazedrat wrote: You people are so dramatic and whiny I question why I come here. How ignorant can you be? It frees up APM during critical situations, it allows you to inject at any time - not just exactly when the larvae inject pops off, or some time after it's popped. So - if you have a 32 energy queen and the inject is half done, you can immediately use the inject and you will not have to recheck on exactly when it pops off - recheck at a time you may be engaged in a fight. Etc. It helps alot. Ignorant and whiny are not two words I would use to describe my post. Anyway, the point of my post, which you missed, is that their goals for the design of macro mechanics do not match the thought process I can see behind this change. They were to specifically looking to.. Eliminate unnecessary clicks. The change reverts us back to square one. Make the game easier for newbies. Sure. After a certain point you can check your hatcheries and maintain 100% uptime with no tempo, but to do this you have to do things that are harmful to your macro. The change doesn't affect the top percentage of players yet they're still required to multitask the same amount pre-patch while aggressively expanding and watch their fragile army, spread creep and overlords, etc. Which, as DK has mentioned, were the players complaining it was difficult to do everything they needed to do to win a game at the new lotv pace. I understand it helps players, but I just don't think it is in tune with the direction blizz said they were heading nor does it provide newbies with proper assistance to deal with banked energy. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20322 Posts
On September 18 2015 11:30 Thaniri wrote: I'm back to playing SC2. This is the change that I've been bitching about for 4 years. They already made it spread and recede faster so now i guess it's 3x as fast receeding as HOTS needed though, it spreads insanely fast (you get quite a lot more out of every tumor if you spread it on cooldown and people also drop more tumors) and sometimes you clear half a map of creep and it's still kinda there for quite a while | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
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