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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 06 2014 15:44 Babru wrote:
noticed that the ravager now is fixed (smaller AOE) on the LotV maps at EU server, but the hydra combined range/speed upg is not. Will it be added asap?
Check the latest patch 1.3, where Ravager got some balance tweaks.
What about merged Hydralisk upgrade. It works now as intended - Muscular Augments will upgrade your Hydralisk speed off-creep and range. Right now upgrade description seems old, it only says about speed off-creep.
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On December 06 2014 16:06 Existor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2014 15:44 Babru wrote:
noticed that the ravager now is fixed (smaller AOE) on the LotV maps at EU server, but the hydra combined range/speed upg is not. Will it be added asap? Check the latest patch 1.3, where Ravager got some balance tweaks. What about merged Hydralisk upgrade. It works now as intended - Muscular Augments will upgrade your Hydralisk speed off-creep and range. Right now upgrade description seems old, it only says about speed off-creep.
Nvm. The combined hydra range/speed is added to the maps and works as intended indeed.
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So any show matches with someone going lurkers? I have yet to see a single zerg even try lurkers 
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 06 2014 17:03 blade55555 wrote:So any show matches with someone going lurkers? I have yet to see a single zerg even try lurkers
I'll quote my opinion on lurkers from reddit. it's just my opinion, of course high-level pro-players can develop new strategies and utilize Lurkers in a stronger way. But I think, with the current fast paced gameplay, Lurkers MAY be behind banelings.
I think, in ZvT lurkers will be more for defence because of their 6 range. They have kinda "lower range" than speedy banelings on creep. Under that I mean that it will be a lot easier to hit terran units with fast banelings than hit them with lurkers, because terran will just run away and around. Lurkers are not that mobile unit. They are probably better for turtle pushing, allowing to estabilish on key map position for future reinforcements.
I think, ravagers and banelings will be more deadly weapons, while Lurkers may be more defensive unit, which can be good in ZvZ (good to shut down tons of zerglings / roaches / banelings). In ZvP? Stalkers can dodge them and blink away. Zealots? Who ever will go with zealots onto lurkers?
As defence? Again - yes, like in ZvT. Lurkers are immune to force field stuff (like ravagers).
I have feeling that 9 range will be moved back to lair during official alpha/beta tests. Because right now I see only too few scenarios where Lurkers will be good. They are like Swarm Host, but shorter range. Still immobile, easy to dodge / walk around, and they aren't that cheap.
At what they will be REALLY good - against terran marine / widow mine / hellbat pressure (when it constantly produces from barracks, and terran keeps all his apm and control on splitting and running marines against banelings / zerglings).
I think Blizzard sees that and thats why they added lurker. Lurkers allow for zergs to have more stable defence and time to switch into something that zergs wants (not terran, that dictating entire game by forcing zerg to build ling muta bane).
It's just my opinion, so maybe there can be different points of view on new units and their usage.
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Instead of moving everything to lair blizzard should just make hive more accessible. People keep asking for e.g. t3 upgrades to move to lair as well.
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On December 06 2014 21:06 Grumbels wrote:
Instead of moving everything to lair blizzard should just make hive more accessible. People keep asking for e.g. t3 upgrades to move to lair as well.
Well, Ravagers are under Lair tech and Lurkers an extra building above it. I like the low tech requirment for ravagers - though I could see a lair requirment for the morph too, but please no extra building or upgrade - so that you can combat cliff abuse very early and allow for broader mapdesign.
The problem with early Hive isn't as much that it is doable, but it only works out for Vipers. If you need an extra building on top of an infestation pit+Hive it's too much time and resource investment to rush it. And going Infestation Pit+Hive only to line up upgrades just doesn't work out. I think the Infestor buff could already help a bit in that direction.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Well, Ravagers are under Lair tech and Lurkers an extra building above it. I like the low tech requirment for ravagers - though I could see a lair requirment for the morph too, but please no extra building or upgrade - so that you can combat cliff abuse very early and allow for broader mapdesign.
I think, blizzard can create a new building, morphable (or separate one) from Roach Warren. And keep ravagers at tier1, just a bit later.
Or they can make Ravagers just Lair tech, like they did with Viper, which has no building (no spire, no Viper Nest or something like that).
Also I could agree about zerg t3 upgrades. Why they are not on Infestation pit. But, there can be a reason behind it. I saw some games where zerg have won with 1-2 upgrades behind. So it's just a specific Zerg mechanic, less focused on upgrades and a bit more focused on numbers and remaxing army.
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On December 06 2014 17:03 blade55555 wrote:So any show matches with someone going lurkers? I have yet to see a single zerg even try lurkers
I use some lurkers vs my brotoss from TTseed. I sent the replay to Jakatak. He may cast it if he likes it
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did you play these on 1.3? If I host a FFA, what are the best maps for it?
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I've just discovered a bug with the Cyclone lock on A.I. rendering them pretty much useless in quick combat.
If you have multiple Cyclone's in a control Group, and you use lock on, it will be always the one cyclone closest to the target executing the order. Now the problem with this is, if you have 2 Cyclone's, one right and one left, there's one enemy right and one left, if the right Cyclone targets the left enemy with lock on, and you initiate a lock on on the right target with your Cyclone control group, the right Cyclone, that's already locked on to the left enemy will stop being locked on to the left enemy and switch to the right one because he is the closest one to the new target, despite the left Cyclone not being locked on to anything.
Oh and the worst part is, the Cyclone that was previously locked on to the left target will not actually lock on to the right one, it will just drive towards the right one and start auto attacking it.
So there's a few things that will have to be done:
1. Priority Change: Closest free Cyclone should execute lock on, not closest overall.
2. If a Cyclone that's locked on to a target gets the order to lock on to another target it should actually do so.
Also, let's say I have 9 Cyclones within range 8 of an enemy unit (within lock on range). I initiate 9 times lock on ability on said enemy and only the closest 3 Cyclone's will attack. I believe the additional lock on commands make the Cyclones already locked on move closer to their target, into attack range for no apparrent reason.
It's really weird but play with controlling multiple cyclone's and using their lock on ability, it's unusable.
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I just want to say that this is a lot of fun, and thanks for your work on it.
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On December 07 2014 02:21 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote:did you play these on 1.3? If I host a FFA, what are the best maps for it?
There's probably about 4 blizzard maps that are OK for ffa with 8 players (these are 3 of them, can't recall the names). As far as non blizzard maps, I'm not sure. There may be a decent The Hunters clone though.
Also, if you need a cocaster anytime you can message me, I'm pretty knowledgeable about the game since I've been playing since WOL beta off and on and in BW and have played with lots of top level players etc.
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Who mods the SC2 strat forum? Would it be ok to make LOTV threads there for that? Or should there just be one LOTV thread there for now?
Seems like a better idea that to mix it up with this thread.
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Just finished those ZvT and PvT VODs between Qxc and Pokebunny, and damn they were super fun! If LotV would be nearly as active and fun as this I will absolutely love it!
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On December 08 2014 01:34 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Just finished those ZvT and PvT VODs between Qxc and Pokebunny, and damn they were super fun! If LotV would be nearly as active and fun as this I will absolutely love it!
People will figure out stuff. It doesn't matter what it looks right now. Right now nobody knows how well X-army/situation plays against Y-army/situation. There are going to be a lot of those games like with oracles, when Protoss suddenly found out that oracles just kill terrans that don't have 5marines on hold positon in their mineral line. Or when Zergs started to understand how the AI of widow mines could be abused. Or when Terrans found out that two hellbats still made for a good drop after the beta size nerf.
Top-players might just stick to their guns in the first tournaments, just because they will kill people with HotS strategies until LotV strategies are being understood.
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On December 08 2014 02:01 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2014 01:34 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Just finished those ZvT and PvT VODs between Qxc and Pokebunny, and damn they were super fun! If LotV would be nearly as active and fun as this I will absolutely love it! People will figure out stuff. It doesn't matter what it looks right now. Right now nobody knows how well X-army/situation plays against Y-army/situation. There are going to be a lot of those games like with oracles, when Protoss suddenly found out that oracles just kill terrans that don't have 5marines on hold positon in their mineral line. Or when Zergs started to understand how the AI of widow mines could be abused. Or when Terrans found out that two hellbats still made for a good drop after the beta size nerf. Top-players might just stick to their guns in the first tournaments, just because they will kill people with HotS strategies until LotV strategies are being understood.
I understand all of that, I just mean that I would like it to be more active and fun, so far it seems to me that it will be but of course we can't tell since nothing is final. I am also among the guys that absolutely loves the 12 starting workers change as it speeds up the game a lot, while not completely destroying early pokes and cheeses.
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Am i the only one who feels corruptor is actually a great unit now?
I've done some testing and you can get 2 corruptors out by 5:28-5:34 minute mark depends on how economically effective you do it. ( you can have a natural building + 2 queens followed right after the spire starts being built.
You can use them to snipe harvesters at 8 range with marine-like dps. You can out-range turrets/cannons/spores.
It gets out before oracle cheese hits unless it gets proxxied in a really shitty position for you and you fail to scout, but that should be your own fault if you lose to that.
They're basically banshees that are anti air with more hp, regenerate and can be healed. The spire opens up the tech path to fast mutas. I've also experimented with going instant infestation pit as i create my 2 corruptors. To rush hive whilst building third and harassing with the 2 corruptors. Transition into heavy amount of queens or go speedlings/ infestors. Or more muta/corruptor whatever you scout for and think you need.
A lot of things are doable if you go fast spire. As a whole 2 corruptors do more for you than 4-6 mutas in terms of versatility/ long range sniping and decent anti air. So overall conclusion is it's a minor tech rush to get harass/tech option to harass/attack more or gives you the option to greedily tech even more. With all those options come fancy ways of defending and it can hopefully be explored and streamlined by the zerg player to adapt how he sees fit.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
I really hope they stay with all the current ideas and just tweak numbers. Many of those ideas feels really interesting and they give a lot more ways to play.
It's first time, when I'm, as zerg player, love new Protoss and Terran units. I love that you can hit-n-run Disruptors (love their name on Desrow streams - Desrowpters :D ) while they are in standard mode with just zerglings!
I love the 2nd role of corruptors - tanky and slow acid-spray aerial unit. Maybe they will make them less strong and closer to old void rays (if keep this idea), so they need to stay longer to deal more damage.
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On December 08 2014 10:00 Existor wrote:
I really hope they stay with all the current ideas and just tweak numbers. Many of those ideas feels really interesting and they give a lot more ways to play.
It's first time, when I'm, as zerg player, love new Protoss and Terran units. I love that you can hit-n-run Disruptors (love their name on Desrow streams - Desrowpters :D ) while they are in standard mode with just zerglings!
I love the 2nd role of corruptors - tanky and slow acid-spray aerial unit. Maybe they will make them less strong and closer to old void rays (if keep this idea), so they need to stay longer to deal more damage.
I agree, I like almost all the changes in LotV.
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Couple more FFAs from today:
http://drop.sc/390050
http://drop.sc/390049
GG!
PS- I compiled a list of 8 player maps that have potential for FFA. Some of them not as good as the others but whatever.
I listed them in best to worst, however I haven't played all of them yet, most of them.
Zenith, Abyss, Old Country, Forbidden Planet, Atlas Station, Writhing Morass, Lava Flow, Primordial Grave, Sand Canyon, Tempest, Toxic Slums.
There is also a good map from a TL map contest called Tarantula.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/460144-8-tarantula
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EPT
