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LotV Custom - Unofficial Fan Alpha
| Forum Index > Legacy of the Void |
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/7drHiqrh.jpg) | ||
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tomastaz
United States976 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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TheScriptan
Lithuania152 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
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digmouse
China6328 Posts
On November 27 2014 03:15 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Alright, who wants to host the first fan LotV tournament? I mean, everyone will play Terran, but it'll still be fun Or we can call it "Cyclone Micro Tournament". | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
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pretender58
Germany713 Posts
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j4vz
Canada976 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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Jer99
Canada8157 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 27 2014 03:28 IeZaeL wrote: NA is having some issues with uploading/downloading maps unfortunately. Tell me about it ;; :') T_T | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 27 2014 03:25 digmouse wrote: Or we can call it "Cyclone Micro Tournament". "Cyclone "micro" Tournament" | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
Works smooth as fuck, this map. LY<3 | ||
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Alchemik
Poland7124 Posts
"Cyclone "who can move back better" Tournament" | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19224 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
For now, Locust seem to have a ranged attack which displays as Acid Spray, 3 range. However, in practice they seem to deal melee damage?^ EDIT nvm, they engage the first target at 1 range, but still have 3 range when retargeting. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
We need to get some pros playing this stat! | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
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fruity.
England1711 Posts
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
On November 27 2014 03:50 SatedSC2 wrote: Protoss Nerf - Unofficial Fan Alpha. Instead of whining on an alpha come play with us  | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 27 2014 03:58 SatedSC2 wrote: Why would I want to play ZTarcraft II: Legacy of the Void..? Because people wouldn't consider you a whiny ******** who complains about balance of a game not even in existence which he hasn't even played... THat's why. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 27 2014 04:00 SC2Toastie wrote: As an added comment, I think Cyclone do not behave as intended; they can't "kite". If you use lock on, and give a move command, Lock On is cancelled. So it's actually kind of balanced? | ||
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SatedSC2
England3012 Posts
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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SuperHofmann
Italy1741 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 27 2014 04:00 SC2Toastie wrote: As an added comment, I think Cyclone do not behave as intended; they can't "kite". If you use lock on, and give a move command, Lock On is cancelled. Lock on cancels when you use Lockon on friendly units. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 27 2014 04:00 SC2Toastie wrote: As an added comment, I think Cyclone do not behave as intended; they can't "kite". If you use lock on, and give a move command, Lock On is cancelled. Maybe it only works backwards? I had troubles as well. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 27 2014 04:04 SatedSC2 wrote: You say that as if I give a shit what you think of me. I'm smart enough to look at the features of a game and know whether or not I will enjoy it. If you're not smart enough to recognise that as a possibility then you should project your slander inwards, not outwards...  Perhaps you should project your slander inwards and not outwards. Why are you pissing on everybodies parade with your Protoss UP T_T qq? Before you played the game, even? That's the same as a kid who's never had pizza saying he doesn't like pizza because there's cheese on it. Once you force it down his throat, he'll never want anything else.. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 27 2014 04:10 TheDwf wrote: Maybe it only works backwards? I had troubles as well. TheDwf, you online, we'll test together On November 27 2014 04:09 Existor wrote: Lock on cancels when you use Lockon on friendly units. Might have been the range, then... I remember it working vs Zealots but not Stalkers. Might have to do with Stalkers getting out of range when they stop to shoot. Also, Cyclones have a very weird name in the factory and the hotkey is the same as the hellion  | ||
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[BSP]Kain
119 Posts
Yeah, I have problems with cyclone as well. Should it be clunky like it is or it's a bug? | ||
iHirO
United Kingdom1381 Posts
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ArgusDreamer
Canada63 Posts
They are all stuck at downloading; at 60% or 90% says 1 min remaining left but it's wrong ;_;. Since nothing happens. (i've only tried it on NA server) | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
-DISRUPTOR WARP PRISM IS SO MUCH FUN =D =D =D!!!!!!!! On November 27 2014 04:30 iHirO wrote: Nice job! All the people complaining about the DreamPool now have some interesting maps to play on. Haha, yes, for sure! | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 27 2014 04:15 SC2Toastie wrote: TheDwf, you online, we'll test together Might have been the range, then... I remember it working vs Zealots but not Stalkers. Might have to do with Stalkers getting out of range when they stop to shoot. Also, Cyclones have a very weird name in the factory and the hotkey is the same as the hellion I think cyclones in this mod do lock on but whenever an enemy unit in range targets it, the lock on breaks and it doesn't attack. Or at least that what I found. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
-Hellion and cyclone is same hotkey "E". When pressing "E" its always hellion beeing built. -When using Cyclone lock with several on the same unit it messes up almost immedaitely. Also, when using only 1 cyclone with lock, it to messes up. Seems very incosistent overall. This was on enemy buildings and also on enemy units. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 27 2014 04:33 Foxxan wrote: @Bugs -Hellion and cyclone is same hotkey "E". When pressing "E" its always hellion beeing built. -When using Cyclone lock with several on the same unit it messes up almost immedaitely. Also, when using only 1 cyclone with lock, it to messes up. Seems very incosistent overall. This was on enemy buildings and also on enemy units. Yes, I've mentioned the Cyclone, it has been brought up a couple of times. But, let's also mention all the epically good shit these people made. So many many props to all of you ♥_♥ | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 27 2014 04:34 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Is it wrong that I'm seriously considering taking the afternoon off work (even though I'm really behind on shit) in order to play this? Understandable, but you''ll need the job to purchase the real stuff and jobs are scarce my friend | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
Corruptor's ability doesn't make sense, as you can use it on ground units, structures, and there's not mana cost/CD. You can essentially just "attack" with it, you just have to "c-click" instead of "a-click". At first I thought the ability sounded cool, now I think it should just be replaced with a standard attack if this is what they really want - but then that takes away the identity of the corruptor. | ||
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GTPGlitch
5061 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 27 2014 04:40 CakeSauc3 wrote: Really fun, thanks for uploading :D Corruptor's ability doesn't make sense, as you can use it on ground units, structures, and there's not mana cost/CD. You can essentially just "attack" with it, you just have to "c-click" instead of "a-click". At first I thought the ability sounded cool, now I think it should just be replaced with a standard attack if this is what they really want - but then that takes away the identity of the corruptor. I think they're for sure gonna change that ability up... if they wanna buff corruptors do it in an interesting way, don't just give them a grounds attack... | ||
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ArgusDreamer
Canada63 Posts
Yaay ! Let the games begin :D Also i'd like to thank all the people who helped make this happen and big thanks to the map creators for adding some sexy maps too ! | ||
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Gemini_19
United States1228 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 27 2014 04:41 GTPGlitch wrote: good god disruptors are strong They're so awesome | ||
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SNSeigifried
United States1640 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Ravager: 180hp, 6range | ||
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GoGoGo_SC
United States2 Posts
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Kazahk
United States385 Posts
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b0ub0u
Canada445 Posts
Where did you guys saw those changes like Ultralisk +1 armor etc.. I didn't see those changes in the LOTV announcement? | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 27 2014 05:15 b0ub0u wrote: What the hell? Where did you guys saw those changes like Ultralisk +1 armor etc.. I didn't see those changes in the LOTV announcement? Not all the changes were in Lotv trailers, but they are taken from blizzcon build | ||
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ZeromuS
Canada13389 Posts
Wasn't it supposed to be longer? | ||
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Talionis
Scotland4085 Posts
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YoTcA
Germany151 Posts
@Bug (maybe): In this thread (linkhttp://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/13923142268) it was mentioned that both hydralisk upgrades are combined. In this mod they are still seperate. And on another note: The lurker den does not show up in my hotkey settings, so I cannot change the hotkeys. Thanks again. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Roach Ravager and burrow are both on hotkey "R" | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
I guess I'll take it | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19224 Posts
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Homeless666
Czech Republic50 Posts
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
On November 27 2014 05:47 BisuDagger wrote: All of the maps get stuck dl-ing Try EU server This a blizzard server-side issue actually. | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
Bugs : 1. disruptors and sentries both get selected when doubleclicking either 2. disruptors appear to have the mothership(!) death animation sometimes? | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
Might be my custom hotkeys, I don't remember what I've changed, been so long. | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 27 2014 05:58 purakushi wrote: Why was this listed on TL's Community News and then taken right off? Indecision/infighting among the mods who decide whats news and not I'm guessing. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
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AFSpeeDy
126 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
Opinions on the actual economy already? I like the spreadedness of the maps, not convinced on the econ yet | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
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Nakamura
9 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 27 2014 06:36 Nakamura wrote: Reporting bug: Opponent couldn't see the corrosive bile targeting when I was casting. From what I know, they are meant to see where it will land. I had no problem with that... | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
On November 27 2014 06:36 Nakamura wrote: Reporting bug: Opponent couldn't see the corrosive bile targeting when I was casting. From what I know, they are meant to see where it will land. I could see it when playing against zerg | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
I mean seriously, you dont have to build anything but ravagers and a few lings. lots of hp, good basic attack + air/ground splash? once u have 8 ravagers you can just blanket half the screen with aoe o.O | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
The economy change is brutal, also Banshees are super effective early game now. It's just a massive chaos, but it is fun as hell.. 200 gas for Cyclon seems totally out of place. Something like 100/100 with less dps is what is needed for mech. Ravager is really effective counter to Tanks, there will be lots of timings where Terran can't do shit vs those as no Tank behind wall will help you. | ||
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Promised_pain
Finland57 Posts
Too bad you'll need a hive in order to get those. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 27 2014 06:49 Promised_pain wrote: 2 way attack with flying locust, killed 2 nexuses in a few seconds. LOL Too bad you'll need a hive in order to get those. Could you imagine if Polt plays LotV zerg... it'd be legendary | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
Next with the corruptors with its spray you have to click on the building your attacking for every corruptor rather then click once for all corruptors again idk if that how it is but i feel it shouldnt. this is just what ive seen so far and will post more later. also on gods garden you can drop on cliffs above nat idk if that how they want it i love it as terran with tank drops but idk if its fair for other races. | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
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Rider
Netherlands127 Posts
Other then that, this is a lot of fun! :D | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 27 2014 06:59 Vanadiel wrote: Amazing job, thank you. For what I have tested, the ravager spell does friendly fire, but not to himself is that the correct way? Ravagers can kill other ravagers, but they can't kill themselfs | ||
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somesing
United States12 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
I think they were lair tech, no? | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
Toss disruptor hits, its strong but it didn't made a difference. It is fun ^^ edit: with good micro the disruptor either won't hit or get some bad hits, probably not worth it vs roach ravager. More colossus is probably better. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Kazahk
United States385 Posts
Also, I am not sure why but carriers interceptors went idle after i commanded them to attack a location. | ||
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baldgye
United Kingdom1092 Posts
-Remove sentries (becasue new roaches murder them) -Add new gateway unit to replace/buff gate units vs roaches -Remove storm -Nerf mutas (this would make ZvT better imo (with new roaches)) But yeah, this has actually made me super hyped for LotV !! :D | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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LongShot27
United States2084 Posts
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Ben1500
United Kingdom180 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 27 2014 07:45 [PkF] Wire wrote: Very nice and all, but since the alpha build has probably already gone through several total revamps, I don't really see the point. LOTV Custom's goal is to fill the gap untill alpha/beta comes. Untill that you can enjoy LOTV stuff with this fanmade project. | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
disruptor + blink stalker seems really cool. lurker and ravager are so much fun. So much action :D | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
On November 27 2014 08:09 Existor wrote: LOTV Custom's goal is to fill the gap untill alpha/beta comes. Untill that you can enjoy LOTV stuff with this fanmade project. AND its fun | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On November 27 2014 08:09 Existor wrote: LOTV Custom's goal is to fill the gap untill alpha/beta comes. Untill that you can enjoy LOTV stuff with this fanmade project. ravagers are hatch tech in this mod, this can't be right? | ||
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iamcaustic
Canada1509 Posts
On November 27 2014 07:45 [PkF] Wire wrote: Very nice and all, but since the alpha build has probably already gone through several total revamps, I don't really see the point. For fun and profit in ESPORTS dollars. Played a few games with my co-workers over lunch today. Good times had by all. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 27 2014 08:14 The_Red_Viper wrote: ravagers are hatch tech in this mod, this can't be right? As far as I know, Ravagers are hatch tech. | ||
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Topin
Peru10053 Posts
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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Guaze
Sweden9 Posts
- Disruptor and sentry are the "same" unit. When double clicking or ctrl-clicking on a disruptor, you will also select sentries. If you have sentries and disruptor in the same selection-group, you can't use the disruptors ability because you will only see the sentries abilities. - (Maybe not bug?) Disruptors stack extremely much when you use their ability. If you have a lot of disruptors and use their ability and then right click, they will all move to the exact same spot and only one disruptor will survive. I don't think it was like this at blizzcon (stacking, not damaging allies) | ||
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baldgye
United Kingdom1092 Posts
On November 27 2014 08:25 Guaze wrote: Bugs I've found - Disruptor and sentry are the "same" unit. When double clicking or ctrl-clicking on a disruptor, you will also select sentries. If you have sentries and disruptor in the same selection-group, you can't use the disruptors ability because you will only see the sentries abilities. - (Maybe not bug?) Disruptors stack extremely much when you use their ability. If you have a lot of disruptors and use their ability and then right click, they will all move to the exact same spot and only one disruptor will survive. I don't think it was like this at blizzcon (stacking, not damaging allies) +1 I found this too... when trying to use them to run into an army ahead of your main force they suddenly merge into one and your like wtf where did they all go haha | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 27 2014 08:25 Guaze wrote: Bugs I've found - Disruptor and sentry are the "same" unit. When double clicking or ctrl-clicking on a disruptor, you will also select sentries. If you have sentries and disruptor in the same selection-group, you can't use the disruptors ability because you will only see the sentries abilities. - (Maybe not bug?) Disruptors stack extremely much when you use their ability. If you have a lot of disruptors and use their ability and then right click, they will all move to the exact same spot and only one disruptor will survive. I don't think it was like this at blizzcon (stacking, not damaging allies) Yes, they did stack at Blizzcon but they didn't damage their own units nor other Disruptors so that is bug for sure. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On November 27 2014 08:28 Ramiz1989 wrote: Yes, they did stack at Blizzcon but they didn't damage their own units nor other Disruptors so that is bug for sure. My dream of Protoss friendly fire died as soon as it was born. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
Also someone should make this with peepmode, so we can more easily mass game | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
This shows why all the people whining about balance should have waited until they could playtest the changes. After 4 years you have to be able to discern that you can't judge balance changes before testing them. Cyclones are very difficult to micro and keep your macro going. The Protoss robo unit demolishes bio and its radius is huge. But Protoss players were whining that their race was getting nerfed. Please learn that balance changes need to be playtested. Also I think it's a bug that hellions and cycles are the same hotkey at the factory. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
One is gameplay bug, AI used Raven's SM on my Ravager, and I've burrowed it. Missile came to my Ravager and then disappeared, few seconds later when I unburrowed Ravager, there was the explosion and he took damage. It looked like that missile froze when it tried to hit burrowed unit and exploded later when unit has unburrowed. I don't know if it is Ravager problem only, or for every unit that has burrow. Other problem isn't that big of a deal, but when I have destroyed the last building of an AI, instead of winning screen I got fatal error. And I am in ave, amazing amazing amazing! Really well done, we might actually see pros try out this now. I know that Huk already has. | ||
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Thalandros
Netherlands1151 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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Mantaza
Germany87 Posts
Anyway i dont know if anyoen posted it here already but if you activate the disruptor ability and wait around 2-3 secs and then load it into a warpprism the animation gets stuck and you have an invulnerable Disruptor until you use the ability again. BTW thx for the map :D | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
maps could be a bit better though, more and close expansions. ravager rly good against P, cyclone weaker than expected, disruptor expensive but good as fuck vs everything | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
On November 27 2014 09:18 KalWarkov wrote: small bugs, but the game is fucking AWESOME. maps could be a bit better though, more and close expansions. ravager rly good against P, cyclone weaker than expected, disruptor expensive but good as fuck vs everything "more and close expansions" makes for turtly and boring gameplay. | ||
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
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fickazzz
Germany152 Posts
Tank drops pretty good too | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
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kiLen
Finland97 Posts
Even though there probably is a lot of imbalances in this build it was still very fun. It wasnt that 3 base grind where 1 misstake cost you the game, it was action all over the map and it was glorious to play, I actually had more fun playing this than I have had during the last 6 months of hots! This.is.AWSOME! | ||
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Flopgun
Germany274 Posts
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 27 2014 09:56 Tuczniak wrote: I don't know about those map in OP, but if used as extension on Megaton for example the blue minerals get value 1000, but gold minerals stays at 1500. That could be fixed probably. Already planned to fix with the next patch | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 27 2014 09:51 starslayer wrote: new swarmhost is insane i literally have no idea how to stop flying locust lol. i mean viking can hit them before the land but 10+ swarmhost is just crazy.lol at least there not boring anymore right? lol but yea game is soooooooo amazing great mod cant wait for the real on. 10 swarm hosts are 2000 vespene gas, also 30 seconds they can't spawn locusts. And also locusts are still slow, yes SH are faster, but they are still weak to drops and fast units. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
maps could be a bit better though, more and close expansions. I think maps are okay, not so far not so close expansions means that gameplay action happens all over the map, not only in specific areas. And you always can try other maps with the extension. | ||
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Mahanaim
Korea (South)1002 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
Ravager OP. Stupid KotHH and his skillshots... | ||
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joshie0808
Canada1023 Posts
Big thanks to Jak and all the talented modders and mappers and stat collectors who made this happen | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19224 Posts
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GiveMeCake
148 Posts
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
FILE SIZE: 1 MB. Estimated wait time: Less than one minute.... for ∞ | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On November 27 2014 10:24 BisuDagger wrote: Has it been mentioned hellion and cyclone have the same hotkey? Messed me up numerous times lol. Haha yeah me too. I was like: "ok let's build some of those" after the build time: "time to have some fun with EUHHHH hellions?!!??" | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
It is also possible that the arcade maps didn't update to the new version automatically, we are still checking that, so for now the extension mod may be the best option. Have fun! | ||
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wmb
Sweden282 Posts
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Fuchsteufelswild
Australia2028 Posts
There is no (while) "Burrowed" hotkey section for Lurkers and Ravagers | ||
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Ahli
Germany355 Posts
- AI trigger code uses triggering player without matching event - I get 2 errors in editor tests casting aggressive mutation: XML: Invalid validator: "IsFlyingAndNotWildMuatationViper" and "IsFlyingAndWildMutationViper" - Is it intended that everything collides with creep tumors under construction? - Dark Templars collide with "burrow1" instead "CreepTumor"? - unburrowing a ravager displays a cost of 1 supply - Burrowed Ravager has Roach's hotkey alias and has multiple burrowed roach - Ravager's score values are wrong (needs to be 275 for produce and kill) - Cyclone's score values are wrong (needs to be 300 for produce and kill) - Disruptor's score values are wrong (needs to be 400 for produce and kill) - HERC's score values are wrong (-> 200) - HERC has no cheer animation, but accepts /cheer command - HERC's ARC Gun upgrade does not provide score (upgrade scores need to match resource costs) - Cyclone's Targeting Optics upgrade does not provide score - Lurker's Seismic Spines upgrade does not provide score - Swarm Host's Flying Locusts upgrade does not provide score - Ravager's Corossive Bile ability leaks actors (live actor amount increases persistently, performance will drop) - I was able to have an interceptor stand in the air without moving around using Release Interceptors, just cast it close at the Interceptor's position. - Train HERC button has no description - Banshee's Hyperflight Rotor's upgrade score value is wrong (-> 200) - Stasis Ward can target your own units, but does not stasis them -> foes only? - Lock On range upgrade does not increase the range. It cancels before. Maybe because I'm attacking friendly units? - Lock On ability does not display the radius - Cyclone attack actor has wrong impact effect -> no impact sound, no impact model MISSING POLISH: - Robotics Bay needs to unlock the Disruptor in tech tree overview (unit tab -> add Disruptor to "Tech Tree unlocked units") - Robotics Bay's description does not state that it enabled Disruptors - WildMutation casted in an empty area has no animation - Hydralisk Den's description does not state that it can mutate into a Lurker Den- - Lurker Den has no description - Lurker Den's wireframe is updated too early (other morphed structures update it when it finishes) - Purification Nova ability's description does not state that it only hits units, not structures - Immortal's Barrier buff has no description - Disruptors health bar's offset and width is too low - interceptors in the lotv videos were glowing when released, your ones remain identical - Oracle's description is wrong - Tempest's description does not mention his ability - Lurker's kill score value is wrong (needs to be 450 = accumulated costs to produce 1) - HERC's Grapple Hook beam remains visible for like 2 seconds after impact - Banshees with speed upgrade have two small fire animations when they move - Lurker has no landing sound - Disintegrating buff has no description EDITOR FEEDBACK: - creating a new Interceptor unit type is not necessary, you can use the original one... also, you can duplicate the Interceptor and transfer its behaviors to make sure it appears to be the same one. - atm, I suspect that Interceptors are healed and freed from all behaviors like fungal growth? - WildMutation search filter: why do you exclude air when you want to require ground units instead (you prematurely exclude everything like a colussus with that)? not a bug, just a comment on editing filters | ||
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ThePrimeMind
United States5 Posts
One thing I noticed that could be updated is that the battlecruiser warp ability is instant. In the showmatches, there's something like a 3 second channeling and the shadow appears where they're warping to give the other player time to react. Thanks so much for puting this together again! | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19224 Posts
On November 27 2014 11:00 starslayer wrote: is it just me or is the cyclone not as crazy as it was when we first saw it lol, lock on seems to take a bit longer and range upgrade doesnt work yet. Imo cyclones actually require a bit of micro. I like it. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I didn't know they had nerfed the Marauder. Edit: Models are really well made. | ||
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ImmortalZero
United States9 Posts
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Couguar
Russian Federation54 Posts
1. Is disruptor cooldown really 10 seconds???? 2. I thought they do damage to buildings | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44116 Posts
On November 27 2014 11:28 SoulFilcher wrote: Hey guys this is Soul Filcher from the mod team. I just wanted to let you know we already patched the mod and fixed several bugs posted here. Thank you all for the reports. Please keep in mind there's a server issue that may block download for American players, if that keeps happening to you, just switch to another server to download it, then you can go back to play it in your original server. It is also possible that the arcade maps didn't update to the new version automatically, we are still checking that, so for now the extension mod may be the best option. Have fun! Thank you so much! It didn't work when I was on NA, but now it works perfectly on Europe | ||
The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
AIs are not good at dodging this new AoE | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 27 2014 14:15 The_Templar wrote: Just played a 4v4 with my good friends Cricketer, Topin, and someone from Bnet named Singularity against 4 elite AIs. Pretty much everyone died except me until I came up with 12 ravagers and killed all four of their armies with fireballs. Then we staged an incredible comeback. AIs are not good at dodging this new AoE Man, didn't even invite me... | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 27 2014 11:28 SoulFilcher wrote: Hey guys this is Soul Filcher from the mod team. I just wanted to let you know we already patched the mod and fixed several bugs posted here. Thank you all for the reports. Please keep in mind there's a server issue that may block download for American players, if that keeps happening to you, just switch to another server to download it, then you can go back to play it in your original server. It is also possible that the arcade maps didn't update to the new version automatically, we are still checking that, so for now the extension mod may be the best option. Have fun! I just tried the extension mod of this and it seems the hotkey is still "E" on hellion and cyclone. Also, their Lock is still very incosistent. EDIT: Cyclone is 150/150 instead of 150/200 as before, so something did change. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
On November 27 2014 15:09 FabledIntegral wrote: Effing no one is streaming. I'm at home for Thanksgiving holiday and just want to watch a stream .a couple people streamed it avilo, huk, and a few other maybe check there stream, but i don't see many players spending to much time on cause its just a mod and there's still a lot of hots left to go, but i do wish a some more ppl would stream at least a couple games, cause its crazy fun and new. | ||
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architecture
United States643 Posts
The Terran ones look better than the Blizz ones 10x. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44116 Posts
Protoss 1. Disruptors are pretty good (nice speed + damage output) but they cost a ton of gas (300 to a colossus's 200? Protoss was already the most gas-intensive race in the game by far...) and they stack too quickly for me to be really effective with them. Surprisingly fast cooldown though. 2. The tempest's disintegration ability is appropriate, and I'm loooving their faster speed! 3. The carrier's release interceptors is okay, but then you have to remake them anyway and it becomes super costly imo. Carrier still probably won't be preferred over other air tech if this is the only new feature for them. 4. Warp prism micro being easier = I'm a happy camper Hopefully we see warp prisms more frequently now, especially in PvP (made me nostalgic for the shuttle-reaver micro battles of BW). Zerg 1. I missed you, lurker <3 Range upgrade is pretty nasty. 2. Roaches morph into ravagers soooooo fast! And mass corrosive bile is pretty sick too. Really fast cooldown. Probably easy to dodge against only 2 or 3 ravagers, but with 6+ and support units, the opponent really needs to be on top of his micro. 3. Corruptor ability starts out slow, so won't be too effective unless your opponent is distracted for like 10 seconds. 4. Flying locusts without burrowing is quite an upgrade, but the longer cooldown makes me happy as a non-Zerg player. Feels appropriate, and I'm glad they revamped the swarmhost. Terran 1. Hercs have the same voice as marauders… and their attacks don’t look nearly as flashy as other units but in drone lines they kicked ass (especially with the splash damage upgrade) and they instantly killed larva. 2. The cyclone’s Lock on ability is pretty strong, but it's also just a great all-around unit to use both as ground attack and anti-air. 3. Battlecruiser's tactical jump is absolutely hilarious. Fortunately you can only use it once until you regenerate enough energy again. 4. Banshee with upgraded speed + cloak + range feels pretty strong, and so it's nice that the speed upgrade comes super late (fusion core tech). Even though widow mines pretty much ended the idea of opening templar in TvP, banshees already knowing cloak has certainly sealed the templar opening fate x.x | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
I'm amazed how Blizzard is able to come up with new ways to deal with Tanks for every race all the time. After all, I guess they will be only satisfied when they make SC3 without Tanks at all. | ||
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DeeL
Switzerland38 Posts
On November 27 2014 04:34 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Is it wrong that I'm seriously considering taking the afternoon off work (even though I'm really behind on shit) in order to play this? Nope its not. I took monday off ;D | ||
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since1987
Germany3 Posts
If one of the big twitch personalities is reading: please make some showmatches or a fan alpha tournament happen - this would be totally siiiiiiiiiiick!! | ||
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Latham
9560 Posts
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Heartland
Sweden24580 Posts
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 27 2014 18:11 Lunareste wrote: I'm sure you guys saw the Ravager blow up into a Mothership LOL It was a disruptor. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Bugs: The Cyclone Button on the factory says: Button/Name/Marauder22. The Cyclone Lock-On Upgrade only seems to work on the range indicator, but not on the leash range or actual range of the lock on! The Cyclone Lock-On doesn't work on friendly units, neutrals. It just initiates the attack, but stops with the focus/attack speed bonus when moving! Also the lock on doesn't work properly on buildings when units are around: Once you start moving the Cyclone starts target switching (e.g. to workers around the building). Cyclone only gets +1 attack from upgrades. I assume from the logic behind the other unit's upgrades it should be +2. Ravager has no selection circle when burrowed. Ravager shot radius looks much bigger than in the blizzcon videos? Also, can someone confirm it does splash? | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
Legacy of the Void is already 10x better than HOTS | ||
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[BSP]Kain
119 Posts
On November 27 2014 18:10 Lunareste wrote: Watching this on basetrade...wow, there's a ton of army vs army action going on. Love it! Yeah, so far game looks a lot better and balanced than when 2 pros played together in Archon mode. | ||
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Twilight Sparkle
Australia235 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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watchlulu
Germany474 Posts
When the Disruptor is killed, the death animation sometimes turns him into a big fat Mothership lying with the Mothership death animation. (Seen on Basetrade-TV stream) Edit: The Ravager looks very strong though, especially in larger fights with bigger armies because on the one hand you are naturally a bit clumped up and on the other hand there's often to much going on to spot every spot where the damage rains down (don't know how called exactly) | ||
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Ketch
Netherlands7285 Posts
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
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kamicom
United States180 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 27 2014 18:56 graNite wrote: Why do these have to get made? Why cant Blizzard provide a Mod on their own with the current progession. Because it it alpha and they'd rather dedicate their resources to making the game better rather than giving us and hyping us with a possibly buggy, imbalanced version. They can only get a ton of complaints if they release it themselves. | ||
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Kazahk
United States385 Posts
On November 27 2014 18:56 graNite wrote: Why do these have to get made? Why cant Blizzard provide a Mod on their own with the current progession. Because Blizzard is busy actually making the expansion; this mod is a collection of crumbs from blizzcon that we eagerly eat. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 27 2014 19:01 Kazahk wrote: Because Blizzard is busy actually making the expansion; this mod is a collection of crumbs from blizzcon that we eagerly eat. They have all units done already. It really takes alot of work to just implement it into a mod like this? Hell, we could even play it on blizzcon. | ||
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`dunedain
653 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 27 2014 19:08 Foxxan wrote: They have all units done already. It really takes alot of work to just implement it into a mod like this? Hell, we could even play it on blizzcon. Point is that Blizzard probably doesn't want to release something with a ton of bugs as "test mod". | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 27 2014 18:58 SC2Toastie wrote: Because it it alpha and they'd rather dedicate their resources to making the game better rather than giving us and hyping us with a possibly buggy, imbalanced version. They can only get a ton of complaints if they release it themselves. Because if the community makes it, its not buggy. I can understand why blizzard wont do it, they rather just focus on the game 100%. But still, it would mean the community would get the models, units that works 100% properly. And also, there will always be people that doesnt think through their opinions. Doesnt mean there are only those people around, iam sure plenty of people would appreciate it. Like me. "Here, have this, a way to try the new units. Ofcourse, its imbalanced and alot of things will change. We might give you an update from time to time". Doesnt sound so bad to me, hell, easier for ppl to give feedback about it. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On November 27 2014 19:22 Foxxan wrote: Because if the community makes it, its not buggy. I can understand why blizzard wont do it, they rather just focus on the game 100%. But still, it would mean the community would get the models, units that works 100% properly. And also, there will always be people that doesnt think through their opinions. Doesnt mean there are only those people around, iam sure plenty of people would appreciate it. Like me. "Here, have this, a way to try the new units. Ofcourse, its imbalanced and alot of things will change. We might give you an update from time to time". Doesnt sound so bad to me, hell, easier for ppl to give feedback about it. Yeah that is the beta, you got it | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Well ye, thats true. "Have this. Here are the current models and units. We wont patch this at all, its up to you." I would be fine with this. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 27 2014 19:46 StarscreamG1 wrote: lol, the ravager.. I really hope they don't get too nerfed cause is a really good unit for the game. But I'm afraid will be After seeing BasetradeTV, I'd say Roaches either need some sort of upgrade, a morph on the warren, or a longer cooldown for Ravagers. But they are -SICK- 0_0 | ||
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BonitiilloO
Dominican Republic614 Posts
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FrozenProbe
Italy276 Posts
On November 27 2014 20:01 SC2Toastie wrote: After seeing BasetradeTV, I'd say Roaches either need some sort of upgrade, a morph on the warren, or a longer cooldown for Ravagers. But they are -SICK- 0_0 Just make ravagers a lair tech unit could be the easiest thing to do | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On November 27 2014 20:26 FrozenProbe wrote: Just make ravagers a lair tech unit could be the easiest thing to do Dude, they are a lair unit. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Dude, play the mod and watch the games. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On November 27 2014 20:24 SC2BF3Love wrote: can this be play on any map? i was trying it yestarday night and i coulnt get any new unit. Create a custom game using the button "Create with Mod" and then pick that LotV Alpha mod. | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
They aren't lair units and never were lair units. In those exhibition matches, Jaedong + Zest had 4 Ravagers while SoO + Polt had like 2 Stalker and 2 Sentries or something like that. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 27 2014 21:39 royalroadweed wrote: My experience of this mod is that blizzard really hates siege tanks. Dropping them seems pretty nice? However I do agree a small Siege buff when stationary and nerf to portable Siege Mode would be appropriate | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On November 27 2014 18:31 Lunareste wrote: holy crap this is AMAZING Legacy of the Void is already 10x better than HOTS ... no, far from it. | ||
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
100 times you mean? | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
I agree with him, actually. There are balance issues obviously, but even at the relatively low level of the showmatches it's really fun to watch. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
Eventually the meta will adapt to the new economy, and protoss will play a lot more defensively in order to secure bases faster, which is likely to stale the game. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On November 27 2014 21:57 Daralii wrote: I agree with him, actually. There are balance issues obviously, but even at the relatively low level of the showmatches it's really fun to watch. The question here is.. Is it fun because it is good or is it fun because it is new? Hots was fun too when it was in Beta and nothing was figured and/or set in stone. | ||
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Daralii
United States16991 Posts
On November 27 2014 21:59 Hider wrote: From watching a couple of games, my expectation of the economy seems to - so fair - be matched with reality. Protoss cannot secure extra bases while investing into harass/offensive units. At least not vs zerg. Eventually the meta will adapt to the new economy, and protoss will play a lot more defensively in order to secure bases faster, which is likely to stale the game. Toss is so far from complete that I don't think it's really worth theorycrafting about them. Still one unit coming and I'd be surprised if we don't see changes to stalkers and zealots. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On November 27 2014 22:02 Daralii wrote: Toss is so far from complete that I don't think it's really worth theorycrafting about them. Still one unit coming and I'd be surprised if we don't see changes to stalkers and zealots. David Kim has talked about given them a very early game unit, and I actually think that would be nice, but.... this isn't an issue about unit design. This is a much broader issue which comes down to macromechanics giving protoss a disadvantage relative to zerg while playing a macrogame. There is no way the immobile race (the race which lacks mapcontrol in the midgame) can defend extra bases while still being able to invest the same amount into offensive units. Either you (a) cut bases in order to be aggressive/investing into harass units, or you (b) cut harass/offensive units, and focus on defensive units that are good at securing additional bases and play a more defensive style. The latter is by far the most likely scenario to plan out, as the meta develops. This is really a shame, because some of the new micro interactions in the game seems really fun (Disruptor and Ravager). | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 27 2014 22:00 Everlong wrote: The question here is.. Is it fun because it is good or is it fun because it is new? Hots was fun too when it was in Beta and nothing was figured and/or set in stone. But HotS shaped out to be much better than most of the WoL. | ||
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ETisME
12355 Posts
The changes to economy is huge, that base depletion rate is crazy fast. It's easy to keep focusing on micro and then you realize the base is close to depleted Its interesting because now I feel like upgrades come too slowly, I wonder if they scale up the upgrade a little as well, especially ability upgrades | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 27 2014 21:57 Daralii wrote: I agree with him, actually. There are balance issues obviously, but even at the relatively low level of the showmatches it's really fun to watch. You can do the same goofying in HotS too and it's going to look fun. Though Ravager and Disruptor/Prism looked very fun from a control perspective. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On November 27 2014 22:50 Everlong wrote: It will probably go, 1-click 1 kill it's good RTS concept.Man, Tempests... Big unit, moving fast as hell all over the map, shooting things from 15 range, esentially 1-shooting anything with desintegrate.. It just seems so wrong in a RTS game. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On November 27 2014 22:50 Everlong wrote: Man, Tempests... Big unit, moving fast as hell all over the map, shooting things from 15 range, essentially 1-shooting anything with desintegrate.. It just seems so wrong in a RTS game. I don't know they are so insisting on 15 range. Why not try out 8-10 range with fast movement speed and balance it around that? This way enemies might actually be able to attack it and it could incentivize more actual engagements. I very much dislike the concept that one unit (tempest) forces another unit (Corrupters/Vipers) instead of creating interactions where micro is the primary driver of who wins an engagement. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 27 2014 22:54 Tuczniak wrote: It will probably go, 1-click 1 kill it's good RTS concept. It's only 1C1K vs Protoss, Transfuse and Repair/Heal can nullify the spell easily. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On November 27 2014 23:22 SC2Toastie wrote: It's only 1C1K vs Protoss, Transfuse and Repair/Heal can nullify the spell easily. This is true, BCs will be probably good against Protoss again! | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On November 27 2014 23:00 Hider wrote: I don't know they are so insisting on 15 range. Why not try out 8-10 range with fast movement speed and balance it around that? This way enemies might actually be able to attack it and it could incentivize more actual engagements. I very much dislike the concept that one unit (tempest) forces another unit (Corrupters/Vipers) instead of creating interactions where micro is the primary driver of who wins an engagement. Well, Tempests were there to force the engagement and stop turtling, but since this is almost gone away in LotV, I can see them changing Tempests quite a bit. | ||
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Pino
1032 Posts
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kiLen
Finland97 Posts
On November 28 2014 00:02 Pino wrote: I'm not super fond of the new economy change. I mean, it's cool to force aggressive expanding, but I feel like turtling should still be a possibility, being countered by overexpanding, and you just can't do that with bases drying up soooo fast. Turtling is still a possiblity, but now you are not turtling on 3 bases with 60 apm requried. Now you are turtling on 5-6 bases that requires a lot more skill to defend and manage. It is a superb change and there will be so much butthurt when all of the old 2 base all inners realise its not valid anymore. all that aside the gameplay is much better when there is action all over and not the 20 min turtle to deathball. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
On November 27 2014 21:38 Ramiz1989 wrote: They aren't lair units and never were lair units. In those exhibition matches, Jaedong + Zest had 4 Ravagers while SoO + Polt had like 2 Stalker and 2 Sentries or something like that. LOL! I guess they are, I wanted to rush Ravagers and rushed Lair cuz I thought it was needed. Definitely think it needs to be Lair tech. To the nay sayers of Protoss in new eco, I 2 robo Disruptored a bunch of my opponenents, using all gas for Disruptor harass, while using all minerals for expanding and mass cannoning. Then Carriers! | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 28 2014 00:39 Doodsmack wrote: I'm confused by the cyclone range in this...it doesn't seem to be actually as far as the range indicators would lead you to believe. My cyclones stop shooting before I reach the edge of the indicators. Did the creators intentionally nerf the cyclone from what we saw at blizzcon. It definitely seems like the range is not as far. I think the Cyclone is very bugged in the current version, in particular it's upgrade does nothing but increase the range indicator, not the real range or the leash range. | ||
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Salteador Neo
Andorra5591 Posts
On November 27 2014 22:50 Everlong wrote: Man, Tempests... Big unit, moving fast as hell all over the map, shooting things from 15 range, essentially 1-shooting anything with desintegrate.. It just seems so wrong in a RTS game. BW Science Vessel was awesome tho. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 28 2014 00:50 Doodsmack wrote: I don't think there is smart casting for the herc grapple. If I have multiple hercs selected and attempt to grapple to multiple units, only one grapples and then I can't even grapple others while having the same group of hercs selected, because the game thinks I'm trying to re-grapple with the first one that grappled. Yeah, experienced this too | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 28 2014 00:50 Doodsmack wrote: I don't think there is smart casting for the herc grapple. If I have multiple hercs selected and attempt to grapple to multiple units, only one grapples and then I can't even grapple others while having the same group of hercs selected, because the game thinks I'm trying to re-grapple with the first one that grappled. Closest unit to the target casts, instead of every unit. That's smart cast. | ||
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
Is that supposed to be this way? | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On November 28 2014 01:11 Freeborn wrote: A thing I noticed is that if a stalker runs away from a herc and u grapple it, the herc will never attack, since when it lands the stalker is already out of range. Is that supposed to be this way? Maybe you can get a hit if you issue an order immediately after the Grapple animation is over, I think I got a hit against a fleeing Probe like that; but not sure. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On November 28 2014 01:09 Big J wrote: Closest unit to the target casts, instead of every unit. That's smart cast. Why is that when you spam storms with HTs they all storm? Assuming the second only starts storming when the first runs out of energy. The herc goes on cooldown after one use, so you would think the next would queue up at that point. | ||
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JustPassingBy
10776 Posts
Yes, but mainly because of the shenanigans you could pull off with irradiate and defense matrix. ^^ | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On November 28 2014 01:17 JustPassingBy wrote: Plus there were scourge and plague.Yes, but mainly because of the shenanigans you could pull off with irradiate and defense matrix. ^^ | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On November 27 2014 21:57 Daralii wrote: I agree with him, actually. There are balance issues obviously, but even at the relatively low level of the showmatches it's really fun to watch. HotS was fun at the beginning too (man, I still find it fun personally). For what it's worth, the game isn't in a finest state with the alpha changes than it is currently. An overwhelming lot of work still needs to be done. | ||
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Twine
France246 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 28 2014 01:14 Doodsmack wrote: Why is that when you spam storms with HTs they all storm? Assuming the second only starts storming when the first runs out of energy. The herc goes on cooldown after one use, so you would think the next would queue up at that point. I just tested it in multiple ways: shift-queuing grapples fast clicking grapples slow clicking grapples (so the 2nd grapple happens after the first grapple has been executed) works all fine for me. The grapple the target(s) one after the other just like Templar cast their storms until they can't anymore and then take the next one. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 28 2014 01:14 Doodsmack wrote: Why is that when you spam storms with HTs they all storm? Assuming the second only starts storming when the first runs out of energy. The herc goes on cooldown after one use, so you would think the next would queue up at that point. Psionic Storm has a 2 second Cooldown, which is probably why different templar storm. Feedback, for example, comes off a single Templar if the situation is so that one templar is closest to all 4 targets. | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On November 27 2014 23:00 Hider wrote: I don't know they are so insisting on 15 range. Why not try out 8-10 range with fast movement speed and balance it around that? This way enemies might actually be able to attack it and it could incentivize more actual engagements. I very much dislike the concept that one unit (tempest) forces another unit (Corrupters/Vipers) instead of creating interactions where micro is the primary driver of who wins an engagement. well....i really think its because of the viking(12 range)...having less then that would make it useless verse terran | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On November 28 2014 02:02 SuperYo1000 wrote: well....i really think its because of the viking(12 range)...having less then that would make it useless verse terran Vikings have 9 range. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
That made me think about 12 range collosi. Scarred for life T_T | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
lol.....my bad ok so that makes sense to drop it to less then, funny thing is I knew it was same range as colossus thermal lance....dont know why 12 stuck in my mind | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
How about the cyclone range? | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
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`dunedain
653 Posts
On November 28 2014 03:32 Existor wrote: Here are patch notes for first update Existor, Are you guys aware that the hotkey for Cyclone is C, which is also the hotkey for building a reactor on a naked Rax? I can't build a reactor on the fact unless I click on the icon, because it's confused with the cyclone hotkey. | ||
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korne
Canada3 Posts
On November 28 2014 03:54 blade55555 wrote: Any games that were casted or streamed that anyone could link? Base Trade TV Showmatches | ||
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
On November 28 2014 03:57 `dunedain wrote: Existor, Are you guys aware that the hotkey for Cyclone is C, which is also the hotkey for building a reactor on a naked Rax? I can't build a reactor on the fact unless I click on the icon, because it's confused with the cyclone hotkey. It was a (second) slip from our part, sorry for that. It will be addressed in the next patch. | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On November 28 2014 03:54 blade55555 wrote: Any games that were casted or streamed that anyone could link? basetrade streamed some LotV custom play last night... http://www.twitch.tv/basetradetv/b/593233094 | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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`dunedain
653 Posts
On November 28 2014 04:08 SoulFilcher wrote: It was a (second) slip from our part, sorry for that. It will be addressed in the next patch. Ah kk, thanks for the quick reply. Fantastic work with the mod. It's sick. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2626 Posts
The lock on ability, when I used and then moved the cyclone it would cancel even when in range Also it will cancel when the unit gets out of view (mostly due to high ground) not sure if this is intended behavior tho Also hellions have selection preference over cyclones, making hellion/cyclone awkward to control Finally I have issues when using lock on with multiple cyclones, even when I use the abilitys multiple times only 1 cyclone will lock on. Again I'm not sure if some of this is intended behavior but is what I've found | ||
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GoGoGo_SC
United States2 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Are you guys aware that the hotkey for Cyclone is C, which is also the hotkey for building a reactor on a naked Rax? I can't build a reactor on the fact unless I click on the icon, because it's confused with the cyclone hotkey. Planned for future updates. Also please do not overquote posts with image The lock on ability, when I used and then moved the cyclone it would cancel even when in range Right now cyclone upgrade doesn't works at all. Also cyclone will stop lock-on attack while moving, when targeted on ally units. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On November 28 2014 01:30 Makro wrote: the herc is fun to use Its my favorite lotv unit. I think stats could be toned down a bit, however its general design doesn't fall into the terrible, terrible, damage syndrome as much as the ravager, cyclone and disruptor. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On November 28 2014 05:10 royalroadweed wrote: Its my favorite lotv unit. I think stats could be toned down a bit, however its general design doesn't fall into the terrible, terrible, damage syndrome as much as the ravager, cyclone and disruptor. Exactly why I think most of the added units are uninspiring. We have enough heavy hitters that can get some work done on. | ||
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Nakamura
9 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On November 28 2014 04:10 SuperYo1000 wrote: basetrade streamed some LotV custom play last night... http://www.twitch.tv/basetradetv/b/593233094 Thank you | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
We should focus on valorating design. Balance being broken and damage inputs are stupid, yes. But is just math. Game experience is what matters. For exemple, tanks are more mobile now medivac tank is not that a big deal and could be rebalanced easily with an upgrade. The concept is good. Check. Ravagers show to be idiotic in damage, but microable, frontal charge, and dealing with static lines. Semi-check Lurkers are just so Lurkers ^^. Nice unit. Double Check Herc is quite good, but that splash is a nightmare and shows something like a mine/hellbat hydrid. Something to remark in terms of design. Semicheck. We'll have to wait for cyclones to see. Protoss is so fucked up. Tempests have lost a lot of utility too. WRONG way. | ||
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Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 28 2014 05:39 Nakamura wrote: There seems to be some trouble with tank drops when they are sieged. The medivacs don't seem to pick them up unless they are at a complete standstill above the tank, and even then it feels like you need to wait a short moment. They need to decelerate because you have to move them on top of the tank. Normally, you can keep the medivac on speed by moving the other units towards it, but as a sieged tank is stationary.... | ||
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Nakamura
9 Posts
On November 28 2014 06:07 SC2Toastie wrote: They need to decelerate because you have to move them on top of the tank. Normally, you can keep the medivac on speed by moving the other units towards it, but as a sieged tank is stationary.... Check this out then. There is a small pickup range to avoid this kind of awkwardness I'm mentioning. | ||
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Rider
Netherlands127 Posts
That said though, I'm having some trouble with the Carrier. I don't know if this is how it worked in the LotV build, but in the custom, when you release the interceptors the Carrier has to come to a full stop before it launches its interceptors, making it super vulnerable and really tricky to use effectively. | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On November 28 2014 06:13 Nakamura wrote: Check this out then. There is a small pickup range to avoid this kind of awkwardness I'm mentioning. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPVxoOHmmMs I see, but that's not in the mod | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
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[ReCoN]Malacath
France4 Posts
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
Consider ======== Disruptor: - moves linearly to target - explodes with circular damage - can adjust size of circle - can adjust damage; perhaps 3 zones; perhaps stacking can use a percent effect (lost X% dmg for every stack) HERC: - ability to grapple toward target - upgradable for splash damage - can adjust: cost for grapple - can adjust: size and range of splash radius So many adjustments can be made but I think these are cool. Cyclone: - locks onto target - demands constant attention for unit exiting lock radius or engaging cyclone head-on Ravager: - skill shot aoe (works like fungal growth except damage penalty instead of damage + movement stop time) | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 28 2014 08:34 mishimaBeef wrote: Guys... you do realize that the numbers can be tweaked but the unit designs, I must admit, are cool. Consider ======== Disruptor: - moves linearly to target - explodes with circular damage - can adjust size of circle - can adjust damage; perhaps 3 zones; perhaps stacking can use a percent effect (lost X% dmg for every stack) HERC: - grapples toward target - upgradable for splash damage So many adjustments can be made but I think these are cool. In the current build this isn't the case, nor do I believe it was in the alpha build. The Herc grapples towards the unit's location when it activated the ability, which is much less cool. (same as Viper abduct) | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On November 28 2014 08:36 Big J wrote: In the current build this isn't the case, nor do I believe it was in the alpha build. The Herc grapples towards the unit's location when it activated the ability, which is much less cool. (same as Viper abduct) ??? Ok, editted for clarity that grapple is an ability. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 28 2014 08:39 mishimaBeef wrote: ??? Ok, editted for clarity that grapple is an ability. My point was just nitpicking that though you click on the unit with the ability, the Herc actually doesn't go to the unit. But to the location where the unit was standing when the Herc started to grapple. When the grappled unit moves away in the process, the Herc won't go there, but to the now empty location. Actually grappling towards the unit would be much cooler in terms of micro, because movement done during the grappling would actually mess where the Herc goes (or in case of the Viper, where the unit gets abducted). | ||
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Templarfreak
United States39 Posts
When I was working on it alone, I made the damage 40+40 partly for testing purposes and partly because that seemed right at the time, but it's probably not at all right. xD | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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supernovamaniac
United States3046 Posts
They either have infinite range or gets frozen solid | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On November 28 2014 14:00 supernovamaniac wrote: Bug: Carrier interceptors They either have infinite range or gets frozen solid i do have this too but havent seen infinite range....for me they all just froze | ||
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supernovamaniac
United States3046 Posts
On November 28 2014 15:05 SuperYo1000 wrote: i do have this too but havent seen infinite range....for me they all just froze I've seen them freezing twice. I had a game where the carriers were at the natural, I pulled my units into the main and the interceptors followed my units all the way into the main, far away from carriers. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On November 28 2014 17:53 MarlieChurphy wrote: I haven't been able to play this mod. Every time I ever try to load a map it gets stuck between 9 and 23% and never finishes. Hello. From the "exit" menu, try switching your region to Korea/Taiwan and downloading the map using the given instructions and it should resolve the issue for you. 1. Go to Custom Games 2. Use any map, click "Create with Mod" 3. Select or search for "Lotv custom" and allow your download to complete | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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PanzerElite
540 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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PanzerElite
540 Posts
On November 28 2014 19:31 -Archangel- wrote: Fun is not the word I would use unless you only want fun for 1/3 of Sc2 players :D haha, ok i played terran when i still played sc2, but i could make this unit whole day long xD if i were to buy the expansion, it's so amazing it's terrifying D: | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
On November 28 2014 15:50 Foxxan wrote: Any news about the buggy lock with cyclone On November 28 2014 22:52 Hider wrote: Was the range of the Cyclone also fixed in the bug-fix patch? Didn't see anything about that. It wasn't changed in the 1.1 patch, we are working on it. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Was the range of the Cyclone also fixed in the bug-fix patch? Didn't see anything about that. it will be fixed in future updates | ||
Destructicon
4713 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:04 mishimaBeef wrote: Fire and forget? You need to be attentive as to whether the units are moving out of your lock range or if they are moving in to attack your cyclone. The range on them is so ridiculously large that its basically fire and forget. The only way to make that unit remotely interesting is if the lock range was 7 with no upgrade. Long enough to out range stalkers and immortals but short enough that they can't just way point them around while you macro. Still, I'm in no way a fan of the concept. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:13 Destructicon wrote: The range on them is so ridiculously large that its basically fire and forget. The only way to make that unit remotely interesting is if the lock range was 7 with no upgrade. Long enough to out range stalkers and immortals but short enough that they can't just way point them around while you macro. Still, I'm in no way a fan of the concept. The thing is that you must control that cyclone to not get out of range.; Also cyclones are enouhgly expensive to be massed. And they don't work vs unit spams and fast units, i.e. marines / speedlings. Only protoss can have troubles against them, but I think protoss will have another new unit at tier1. Protoss can also open stargate to counter cyclones. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:13 Destructicon wrote: The range on them is so ridiculously large that its basically fire and forget. The only way to make that unit remotely interesting is if the lock range was 7 with no upgrade. Long enough to out range stalkers and immortals but short enough that they can't just way point them around while you macro. Still, I'm in no way a fan of the concept. You mention changing unit stats. Speed of cyclone and range of cyclone can be tweaked. | ||
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:21 Existor wrote: The thing is that you must control that cyclone to not get out of range.; Also cyclones are enouhgly expensive to be massed. And they don't work vs unit spams and fast units, i.e. marines / speedlings. Only protoss can have troubles against them, but I think protoss will have another new unit at tier1. Protoss can also open stargate to counter cyclones. Cyclones target air and have crazy DPS and speed. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:32 Destructicon wrote: Also, two changes in particular in TvZ seem really bad. Marauders changing from 10 (20 vs armor) to 2 attacks of 5 each (10 each vs armor). Its obviously a nerf against armored units but its even bigger if you consider ultralisks will start with 1 more base armor and it will make Ultras even harder then they are now to kill with marines. I don't get the point of this, Ultras are already tanky enough and hard to deal with as bio and they require a ton of micro to do effectively. If this is some sort of an attempt to make terran switch into some other tech then its a poorly thought out one. Terran can't tech switch because of their production, to a certain extent, bio needs to be somewhat able to cope with higher tech units. Terrans don't have a problem mixing in 2-3factories of Thor/mine/hellbat/tanks in their bio currently. Marauders still probably counter Ultras with that, just less. (assumption) Mixing in Cyclones shouldn't be too hard. Even more, Cyclone's are designed to be an amazingly smooth transition unit for bio, because the gas:mineral ratio is so high, which allows bio to take fully use all of their economy (take all gases; spend the gasbank they build). Edit: This is a theorycraft, but basically what I think blizzard is intending. In general this is mainly a balance change, and I think blizzard is usually quite good getting balance right eventually. Whether the change is the most fun one, I don't know, but the relation between ultras and units that just kite them forever isn't that good to begin with. It's more like they are not fixing that, but not really making it worse I think. Edit2: Though the change in that relationship might be really way too big. 5(+5)x2 Marauders not only have double armor applied, and ultras not only have +1armor, but marauders also only upgrade with +1 then I guess? So 3-3ultras with the armor upgrade vs 3-3marauders would receive 12damage per attack, compared to 20 right now. | ||
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Destructicon
4713 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
Cyclone upgrades with +1, should be +2. Cyclone cannot lock on enemy structures and move. Moving will break the lock. Hercs don't do damage to friendly units/structures (at least after the upgrade). Hercs upgrade with +2, should be +3. Marauder upgrades don't work properly. From my testing, I'm assuming only one of their shots gets upgraded, the other one always stays at 5(+5). And the upgrading should be adjusted to +1(+0) from +1(+1). --> All of those upgrade values that I say should be implemented follow the usual SC2 pattern: 10% of the unit's damage rounded to integers. Minimum of +1, maximum of +5. All of this in on the European Version. Only tested +1 upgrades. | ||
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SmileZerg
United States543 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:32 Destructicon wrote: Also, two changes in particular in TvZ seem really bad. Marauders changing from 10 (20 vs armor) to 2 attacks of 5 each (10 each vs armor). Its obviously a nerf against armored units but its even bigger if you consider ultralisks will start with 1 more base armor and it will make Ultras even harder then they are now to kill with marines. I don't get the point of this, Ultras are already tanky enough and hard to deal with as bio and they require a ton of micro to do effectively. If this is some sort of an attempt to make terran switch into some other tech then its a poorly thought out one. Terran can't tech switch because of their production, to a certain extent, bio needs to be somewhat able to cope with higher tech units. Yeah man, god forbid you can't counter a Tier 3.5 Zerg unit with your Tier 1 infantry anymore. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2626 Posts
On November 29 2014 01:13 Destructicon wrote: The range on them is so ridiculously large that its basically fire and forget. The only way to make that unit remotely interesting is if the lock range was 7 with no upgrade. Long enough to out range stalkers and immortals but short enough that they can't just way point them around while you macro. Still, I'm in no way a fan of the concept. I don't know, right now the cyclone is really buggy right now but its far from what it looked like in blizzcon, is really hard the use and seems really easy to counter, I think the range upgrade is ok but it should come later, maybe with an armory or a fusion core, they are quite fragile, and are actually bad vs flying units, I wonder how it would change once its fixed but right now is not that strong, something I quite liked from this is the fact that the lock on comes off once you move, once they fix this something I would them to do is to reduce the cooldown but make it so lock on only last for 4-5 shots before having to use lock again, it makes it require a lot of atention and gives plenty of chances to counter attack the cyclone. Overall I really like the cyclone, it needs some tweaks for sure but is a greath concept | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On November 29 2014 04:10 SmileZerg wrote: Yeah man, god forbid you can't counter a Tier 3.5 Zerg unit with your Tier 1 infantry anymore. That would be a problem, if there was a single other terran answer to ling ultra w/ queen infestor aside from marauders. Building billion tanks with planetaries and ravens and missile turrets and battle cruisers doesn't count. | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On November 29 2014 04:10 SmileZerg wrote: Yeah man, god forbid you can't counter a Tier 3.5 Zerg unit with your Tier 1 infantry anymore. That's facetious and you know it. If Terran tech units were any good we'd use them now. We have to hope the new units and buffs to old ones will suffice, or it will make an incredibly imba unit even more imba with less of a counter. Not to mention the timing of teching to Hive and producing the Ultralisks may no longer line up well with the economic opportunity where Terran sets down more Barracks and Tech labs, but that's probably thinking too hard about the meta. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 29 2014 04:23 Lexender wrote: I don't know, right now the cyclone is really buggy right now but its far from what it looked like in blizzcon, is really hard the use and seems really easy to counter, I think the range upgrade is ok but it should come later, maybe with an armory or a fusion core, they are quite fragile, and are actually bad vs flying units, I wonder how it would change once its fixed but right now is not that strong, something I quite liked from this is the fact that the lock on comes off once you move, once they fix this something I would them to do is to reduce the cooldown but make it so lock on only last for 4-5 shots before having to use lock again, it makes it require a lot of atention and gives plenty of chances to counter attack the cyclone. Overall I really like the cyclone, it needs some tweaks for sure but is a greath concept Right now range upgrade is bugged and does not works at all, as I remember. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 29 2014 04:10 SmileZerg wrote: Yeah man, god forbid you can't counter a Tier 3.5 Zerg unit with your Tier 1 infantry anymore. We need to get out of this stupid mentality of "my T3 of course should hard counter your T1 units!!" It's ridiculous. What matters is how the gameplay and balance works out. Rest is entirely irrelevant. | ||
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Bastinian
Serbia177 Posts
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VegaMatt
United Kingdom11 Posts
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 29 2014 05:33 Bastinian wrote: I like this very much! As far as I can say, LotV will look like Brood War,with massive base spreading all over the map! But what I would say that maps for more players should be way bigger, or else its impossible to play. I still like the idea of depleting mineral yields (the visuals are already there). Patches are still 1,500, but at 1,000 the yield may drop down to 4 or 3, and at 500 it drops down to 3 or 2. Gives the incentive to expand but also you can still maintain income if you're going for an all-in. | ||
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Quakecomm
United States344 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
On November 29 2014 05:39 FabledIntegral wrote: I still like the idea of depleting mineral yields (the visuals are already there). Patches are still 1,500, but at 1,000 the yield may drop down to 4 or 3, and at 500 it drops down to 3 or 2. Gives the incentive to expand but also you can still maintain income if you're going for an all-in. WooH! | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On November 29 2014 04:10 SmileZerg wrote: Yeah man, god forbid you can't counter a Tier 3.5 Zerg unit with your Tier 1 infantry anymore. Thors and Battlecruisers... know what they have in common? They're both Tier 3 Terran units that get countered by Tier 1 infantry. Siege Tanks have a very delicate relationship with bio, they're both good against the other so it all comes down to execution. And somehow TvT is widely considered one of the best MUs. Intriguing. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On November 29 2014 07:07 pure.Wasted wrote: Thors and Battlecruisers... know what they have in common? They're both Tier 3 Terran units that get countered by Tier 1 infantry. Siege Tanks have a very delicate relationship with bio, they're both good against the other so it all comes down to execution. And somehow TvT is widely considered one of the best MUs. Intriguing. How exactly does any zerg tier 1 infantry with no AA whatsoever counter Battlecruisers? And if you're talkin about Roach vs Thor, that doesn't work either. Also I don't know how talking about TvT helps in a discussion about TvZ. 2 completely different matchups. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 29 2014 07:07 pure.Wasted wrote: Thors and Battlecruisers... know what they have in common? They're both Tier 3 Terran units that get countered by Tier 1 infantry. Siege Tanks have a very delicate relationship with bio, they're both good against the other so it all comes down to execution. And somehow TvT is widely considered one of the best MUs. Intriguing. Those discussions aren't fruitful. Techpaths work differently, races are unique. Just one thing though, I think the BC/Thor relations with Terran infantry are better than the Ultralisk one. Why? Because in particular with BCs the longrun relationship is that BCs beat infantry on their own. So the player that has the hard time to get to the high tech (BCs), has a longrun advantage. For Ultralisks the opposite is true. It is hard to get to the T3, but then he actually only has a shortrun/timing advantage over the infantry army.* In both cases the "T3 player" has to hold out until he gets the tech and the units. But in the BC case, a big BC ball eventually just forces the opponent out of direct infantry engagments. While in the Ultralisk case, it's up to the zerg to keep on countering the MMMM once the Terran adjusts his M:M-ratio. *In skyterran TvT scenarios usually the other player also goes skyterran. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
E.g. Moderate changes: Mules: less mining (overall of like 200) Inject: something like 3larva instead of 4larva Chronoboost: only 40% boost or duration to 15seconds | ||
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Aquila-
516 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
edit: 1.2 will be coming next week. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
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ETisME
12355 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On November 29 2014 11:45 MarlieChurphy wrote: Is it normal that Ravagers can hit air units with their spell? yes | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
Yo I noticed your other video here. BW didn't have this way in how units acquired and fired on other things. Why was this method even used at all in sc2? I think the RNG element is really fucking stupid when it comes to mines especially since lots of things have +1 or so range and you can never know exactly what will happen based on this stupid scan thing. PS- What exactly does the scan look like if it were visual? Is it like a scanner sweep? Couldn't you just speed that sweep up so fast that it wouldn't affect the targeting differently than the attack move? This honestly just seems like poor design for blizzard. What is the reasoning for putting it in the game? or is it just an oversight? | ||
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Ninjury_J
Canada408 Posts
Lurker den does not have a hotkey address in the UI Burrowed Lurker does not have a hotkey address in the UI Lurker and Ravager eggs do not have rally points (can be rallied, but as a unit, not an egg) | ||
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Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
PS- What exactly does the scan look like if it were visual? Is it like a scanner sweep? Couldn't you just speed that sweep up so fast that it wouldn't affect the targeting differently than the attack move? If I had to guess, I would peg it to be similar to having sight vision being less than you attack range. The rapidfire mode is simply overloading the attack commands to the point that it overrides anything else, since they actually do have sight and they are actually in their attack range, despite the "a-move recognition" range being less than their attack range. | ||
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egrimm
Poland1199 Posts
On November 29 2014 12:00 MarlieChurphy wrote: http://youtu.be/oxWYxysVBvI Yo I noticed your other video here. BW didn't have this way in how units acquired and fired on other things. Why was this method even used at all in sc2? I think the RNG element is really fucking stupid when it comes to mines especially since lots of things have +1 or so range and you can never know exactly what will happen based on this stupid scan thing. PS- What exactly does the scan look like if it were visual? Is it like a scanner sweep? Couldn't you just speed that sweep up so fast that it wouldn't affect the targeting differently than the attack move? This honestly just seems like poor design for blizzard. What is the reasoning for putting it in the game? or is it just an oversight? Wow. I knew about the destinction between amove and target fire bacause of stalker-WM interaction. However I didn't know about "the scanner" and what's even more important, that it is so easy to fix it o_O. I really hope blizzard will acknowledge that it is bad behaviour and implement some solution. | ||
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woopr
United States112 Posts
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Freeborn
Germany421 Posts
On November 28 2014 09:30 Templarfreak wrote: I'd like to stress that the Ravager's damage is very likely inaccurate and we'll probably change that. (Oh god, I am so sorry...) When I was working on it alone, I made the damage 40+40 partly for testing purposes and partly because that seemed right at the time, but it's probably not at all right. xD Hope this will be fixed soon. Ravager is a bit too extreme right now. | ||
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Epamynondas
387 Posts
On November 29 2014 19:33 woopr wrote: bug: HERCs can't attack your own units Came here to say this. Also, is the battlecruiser teleport ability supposed to be instant? I don't remember it being like this from the showmatches. Edit: indeed it wasnt | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On November 29 2014 04:10 SmileZerg wrote: Yeah man, god forbid you can't counter a Tier 3.5 Zerg unit with your Tier 1 infantry anymore. So Lings shouldn't counter Thors anymore. The game is not designed on Tiers not being able to beat higher Tiers. Also its T1,5 Infantry with T3 support units, that beats a-moving Ultras with extensive kite micro. Now you have to kite over half of the map. And that doesn't take Queen Heal into consideration. Ultra Queen on creep is insane now, haven't found a way to deal with Ultras/Queen on creep apart from quite a bunch of Thors or some suicidal Ghosts. And both are comparably harder to get then a group of Ultras. On the other hand its almost impossible for a Zerg to get there. I would say Zerg has become even more of a dps check for Terrans that go Bio now. But maybe they want the matchup super hard to play. Bio pressures the Zerg and when the Zerg can resist you continue to pressure and slowly transition to mech x3 . While the Zerg has to grab as many bases and spread creep as possible to be able to push back the deathball. Atleast they gave all tanking mech units free heal now like every other composition. But Queen heal is still spamable and instant, so still broken in some cases and energy efficient against every damage spell. But high armor + armored owns almost every Terran unit now. Air units have multi hit or weak fast hitting attacks for ground, except the Viking that got nerfed because of crappy Hydras back in WoL. Bio as well now. So I really don't think they stick with the Marauder change, atleast not the moment they see Guardian Shield being used against Bio. It is an awesome change for TvT though, just like reducing Siege Tank damage to the absolute minimum possible. | ||
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EmtKoloSSaL
Italy5 Posts
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On November 30 2014 00:01 EmtKoloSSaL wrote: Is there any chat on sc2 where we can meet to practice on lotv alpha? Join the group "LotV custom". | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
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TheScriptan
Lithuania152 Posts
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sage_francis
France1823 Posts
I would like to play this mod on custom games but I dont have the "create with mod" button. May someone help me? Thx edit : oh i see ! i have to click "browse map" ^^ sorry just wake up | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 30 2014 01:09 TheScriptan wrote: Hello guys! I have been playing some LotV as Terran and now I am struggling a lot against Disruptors in TvP. How to I defend disruptor drops? If my army for example is attacking? Try vikings / widow mines / scanner towers / cyclones? | ||
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TheScriptan
Lithuania152 Posts
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Trifonius
1 Post
-While cyclones can target destructable rocks, they will not attack them; they will be unable to target or attack anything else until you move them out of range. -Unable to research burrow. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On November 30 2014 02:00 TheScriptan wrote: So if I commit a lot to defense I lose to ground army. Yeah, but disruptor isn't that cheap | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On November 29 2014 07:40 Big J wrote: By the way, with the changes in economy I think it would be reasonable to nerf macromechanics a little bit. Everything is going to be fucked up anyways. E.g. Moderate changes: Mules: less mining (overall of like 200) Inject: something like 3larva instead of 4larva Chronoboost: only 40% boost or duration to 15seconds It would be helpful if people could test larva availability for zerg. For the game to work well larva needs to be somewhat limited. If you're encouraged to make more hatcheries for lower income with the new lotv economy you'd have more larva anyway. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On November 30 2014 02:58 Grumbels wrote: It would be helpful if people could test larva availability for zerg. For the game to work well larva needs to be somewhat limited. If you're encouraged to make more hatcheries for lower income with the new lotv economy you'd have more larva anyway. Indeed. I feel like Protoss is getting the shaft in multiple areas due to the changes. As gameplay promotes more expansions, Zerg will have more hatcheries and production along with it, Terran will get more mules, but chrono by far is the least beneficial as you move into the midgame. Also, given Protoss currently starts with their macro mechanic while Zerg and Terran do not, this further nerfs them. Protoss will normally have more workers than Terran (by far) and Zerg (by a little bit) due to this mechanic. Now, Zerg and Terran get theirs relatively sooner. | ||
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TheScriptan
Lithuania152 Posts
Well it is the most efficient unit in the game! | ||
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Uvantak
Uruguay1381 Posts
Other thing that came to my attention are the spaces ravagers uses while loaded in overlords, atm they are using 2 slots per ravager meaning that one can fit 4 of these guys in a single ovie, that can be devastating for mineral lines and i'm enjoying quite a bit to get ovie speed and cargo and have a couple ovies fly around around in ZvZ, it feels just like BW PvP with reavers, nonetheless i'm concerned that the 2slots per ravager may be an oversight, so i feel it is necessary to mention it. /edit 1 Forgot to mention that Lurkers while burrowed do not have a stop button attached! /edit 2 Also forgot to mention that a ravager won't receive dmg from his own Acidic Bile. /edit 3 i jsut tested this one out, the lurker without the range upgrade will not damage targeted units that are your own, but a lurker with the range upgrade will! /edit4 i think i'll need to reformat the post urgh -.-; I actively started testing stuff and i found more possible issues. Ravager and Lurker Cocoons can be abducted, this will cancel the morphing of the unit and give the resources back to the player, this is a bug, it does not work this way with banes in HotS, you can't abduct cacoons. Aggressive Mutation does not affect air units, i do not know if this is an issue of how the tooltip was formatted or a bug, i report anyways :p, in the same sense flying locust will not be able to be targeted with Aggressive Mutation until they land. Ravagers can't be abducted while burrowed. Lurkers do not have an abduct animation. That's all i have come by on my bugtesting :p /edit 5 Reformatting: + Show Spoiler + ♦ Lurkers do not have a stop button in the command card nor S hotkey attached, only hold fire commands. ♦ Lurkers without range do not damage targeted friendly units. ♦ Lurkers WITH range will dmg targeted friendly units. ♦ Ravagers do not receive dmg from their own acidic bile. ♦ One can load 4 Ravagers in an overlord, i do not know if this is intended. Very strong in a Ravager based meta in ZvZ. ♦ Ravagers can't be abducted while burrowed. ♦ Abducting a burrowed Ravager will bug out the unit, when you unburrow the unit will display the abducting animation for a short moment, and then stop, only to show with his burrowed animation while unburrowed, the unit will behave normally but with the walk animation swapped for the burrowed animation but on top of the ground, abducting it again will not fix the problem neither loading it on a ovie, only burrowing and unburrowing again will fix it. ♦ Ravager & Lurker Cocoons CAN be abducted, this will cancel the morphing of the unit, this is inconsistent with HotS where bane cocoons can't be abducted. ♦ Lurkers do not have a abduct animation. ♦ Agressive Mutation does not affect Air units, this is not specified on the Tooltip. ♦ Flying locusts will not be affected by aggressive mutation until they have landed. | ||
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Aquila-
516 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Enjoy! | ||
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robopork
United States511 Posts
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Uvantak
Uruguay1381 Posts
Also Cyclones are OP. | ||
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Milantes
Germany22 Posts
It seems like it's range is 9 now. It really is supposed to be ~14. Think I'm crazy? check this out: Siege Tank range: http://i.imgur.com/ZWFepZT.jpg Actual Cyclone range: http://i.imgur.com/IHreVty.jpg lotv custom Cyclone range: http://i.imgur.com/F2Jj6pR.jpg As we can see the actual Cyclone locked on attack range seems to be a little higher than the Siege Tanks attack range in siege mode. | ||
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
On November 30 2014 22:10 Milantes wrote: Cyclone locked on attack range is still not proper with 1.2. It seems like it's range is 9 now. It really is supposed to be ~14. Think I'm crazy? check this out: Siege Tank range: http://i.imgur.com/ZWFepZT.jpg Actual Cyclone range: http://i.imgur.com/IHreVty.jpg lotv custom Cyclone range: http://i.imgur.com/F2Jj6pR.jpg As we can see the actual Cyclone locked on attack range seems to be a little higher than the Siege Tanks attack range in siege mode. Thank you for these. We will take a look and decide what to do. | ||
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VerQuer
1 Post
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Death944
Germany33 Posts
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fickazzz
Germany152 Posts
On December 01 2014 00:01 Death944 wrote: It looks like the Herc will attack at least once, after he uses his grapple ability. Just like the Zealot charge auto attack. Otherwise the Herc would seem a bit weak in the early game. Ye, the HERC feels wrong with his grapple... Pretty sure he will at least hit once afterwards, or stun target for small duration etc. to get the free hit. | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
they can end up being stuck mid air and then walk around floating | ||
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Aquila-
516 Posts
On December 01 2014 03:49 graNite wrote: there is bug when two hercs hook each other. they can end up being stuck mid air and then walk around floating That is hilarious, gif please. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On November 30 2014 22:10 Milantes wrote: Cyclone locked on attack range is still not proper with 1.2. It seems like it's range is 9 now. It really is supposed to be ~14. Think I'm crazy? check this out: Siege Tank range: http://i.imgur.com/ZWFepZT.jpg Actual Cyclone range: http://i.imgur.com/IHreVty.jpg lotv custom Cyclone range: http://i.imgur.com/F2Jj6pR.jpg As we can see the actual Cyclone locked on attack range seems to be a little higher than the Siege Tanks attack range in siege mode. Thanks so much for helping out. That was on my very long list of things to do Will update cyclone range in the next patch. | ||
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Defenestrator
400 Posts
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Milantes
Germany22 Posts
On December 01 2014 05:21 Defenestrator wrote: How do you access the games? All the games I see when searching "lotv" in the arcade are v1.1, and I'm getting stuck on all the map downloads. If the arcade version doesn work, create any Custom Game with mod. Mod's called "LotV Custom - Unofficial Fan Alpha" | ||
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Z-Ganon_the_Boss
Germany11 Posts
If you drop it in eco lines or you even hit a pretty good burst you can escape and charge it in 6 seconds again because the cooldown of this ability just ticks while using it and the fact that its invulnerable while doing this is really annyoing. Why not giving it 200 extra shield while using the ability instead of making it immortal. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
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ImCeeSquared
United States1 Post
On December 01 2014 05:49 Milantes wrote: If the arcade version doesn work, create any Custom Game with mod. Mod's called "LotV Custom - Unofficial Fan Alpha" I am having the same issue, it does not work even when creating the game mod. stuck at downloading this. Any idea on how to fix it? | ||
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
On December 01 2014 08:41 ImCeeSquared wrote: I am having the same issue, it does not work even when creating the game mod. stuck at downloading this. Any idea on how to fix it? The American server has been going through this problem for some time now. Updated files fail to download. You can switch to Europe or any other server, download it normally and then switch back to play it. | ||
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Supersamu
Germany296 Posts
On December 01 2014 07:11 Z-Ganon_the_Boss wrote: Disruptors are pretty broken. If you lose them without doing any damage you´re done for it and lost 300 gas. If you drop it in eco lines or you even hit a pretty good burst you can escape and charge it in 6 seconds again because the cooldown of this ability just ticks while using it and the fact that its invulnerable while doing this is really annyoing. Why not giving it 200 extra shield while using the ability instead of making it immortal. This is the thread for the unofficial fan made alpha of LotV. There is already a thread dedicated to discussion of LotV, you can bring this suggestion up there. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On December 01 2014 07:15 GGzerG wrote: I liked the map , i'm not personally playing it because I'd rather wait for something official before I start practicing it. But I have one question, this map doesn't go against anything in blizzard's TOS ? I thought when someone made a WC3 map with SC2 map editor, they shut it down, or something similar. Someone made a similar mod for HOTS before the HOTS beta came out. Blizzard shut down the mod when the beta came out. | ||
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
On December 01 2014 10:28 Doodsmack wrote: Someone made a similar mod for HOTS before the HOTS beta came out. Blizzard shut down the mod when the beta came out. I made a HotS mod, and I removed it on Blizzard's request when beta started. Back then I had no word from Blizzard about it until they asked me to remove the mod. Now with the LotV mod the team is well aware they will allow it with certain limitations and we will probably have to remove it when beta starts. So, enjoy while you can. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2626 Posts
On December 01 2014 10:37 SoulFilcher wrote: I made a HotS mod, and I removed it on Blizzard's request when beta started. Back then I had no word from Blizzard about it until they asked me to remove the mod. Now with the LotV mod the team is well aware they will allow it with certain limitations and we will probably have to remove it when beta starts. So, enjoy while you can. Well when beta starts we won't need the mod anyway | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On December 01 2014 11:02 Lexender wrote: Well when beta starts we won't need the mod anyway If it's a closed beta, some of us will | ||
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BenMcLean
United States20 Posts
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TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
What does that mean? | ||
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Superbanana
2369 Posts
edit: no need to research cloak, i assume. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On December 01 2014 17:03 TedCruz2016 wrote: Banshee: Cloak upgrade is built-in. What does that mean? That they don't have upgrade for Cloak anymore, they start with the Cloak. They now have an upgrade to improve their movement speed, and that upgrade unlocks when Fusion Core is built IIRC. | ||
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DaveSprite
United States79 Posts
I'd like to report a bug I had, I don't know if anyone else noticed it, but if you Herc onto a tank as it gets picked up, your Herc can wind up walking around in the sky. I've only done it a few times and don't have a picture of it, will try to get one or two of those tomorrow or the next day. Finally, a question: I know you guys are working super hard on this mod, and that's really appreciated, but playing this made me wonder what would go into making an archon mode mod? I'd imagine it'd be something similar to how the macro/micro mod was made, but I don't play with the editor much so I don't have the foggiest idea how you'd do it. If the question has been asked/answered previously in the thread, I apologize- I admit I didn't read through all 20 pages. | ||
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GreenFate
France289 Posts
Not seeing much of it atm | ||
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
On December 01 2014 18:54 Ramiz1989 wrote: That they don't have upgrade for Cloak anymore, they start with the Cloak. They now have an upgrade to improve their movement speed, and that upgrade unlocks when Fusion Core is built IIRC. to clarify, you still have to research the banshee speed. it is not like: build core> have speed for banshees | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 01 2014 20:42 GreenFate wrote: Really thought there would be more streamers trying it, seeing the positive critics Not seeing much of it atm I've been making some videos/content with it on my youtube channel. Kind of hard to stream it when... well.. half of the people don't even want to play you in that channel ;~; .. I'ma try to get some other GM NA players to play it with me in the near future... and ofc.. I will gladly be streaming beta when it's available. | ||
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On November 27 2014 21:38 Ramiz1989 wrote: They aren't lair units and never were lair units. In those exhibition matches, Jaedong + Zest had 4 Ravagers while SoO + Polt had like 2 Stalker and 2 Sentries or something like that. Thank you for clarification. As zerg, I would of course be happy to get more options on tier 1. The high vespene cost of the ravager morph should prevent abuse of the ravager's corrosive bile. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Also Cyclones can counter ultralisks pretty nice. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 02 2014 00:44 SoulFilcher wrote: We just published a unit tester map. Search for LotV Custom Unit Tester. Next time 10mins earlier please :D | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On December 01 2014 17:03 TedCruz2016 wrote: Banshee: Cloak upgrade is built-in. What does that mean? TvT is fucked. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
You have cyclones | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
Time to make blind turrets with extra range! | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
I've been playing around with them. Either they're still bugged or they're just not that good. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 02 2014 01:38 SuperYo1000 wrote: .......man.....I was hoping proxy banshee would never come back to pvt....so now I guess i have to open robo everytime now oracle? I think it is already the goto for many professionals to open Stargate-->Oracle-->phoenix vs Banshee. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 02 2014 01:59 Big J wrote: oracle? I think it is already the goto for many professionals to open Stargate-->Oracle-->phoenix vs Banshee. I don't agree with banshees having the cloak upgrade built in and +range by default. Too much. It will be destructive in every matchup. Banshees are already very strong in TvT and TvZ, and can work in TvP really well. The problematic there in TvP is mainly Photon Cannon as it prevents aggresion for a minute, which is usually enough to let your tech structure finish and get some detection. With +1 range the banshee would already have a great micro potential in all matchups. Even if it's fairly common to go Stargate as a protoss, just take in account that: 1- The typical oracle will be at the enemy base most of the time, so it is fairly possible that you don't have detection available if a banshee hits. Without detection, phoenix and stalkers do nothing against them. 2 - By the time it hits, is very likely that the terran has enough units to defend the oracle, while the protoss may have 2 stalkers and maybe a MSC. If the banshee gets some free shots on the stalkers, it will destroy both. 3 - Oracles are going to have envision removed, so protoss aren't going to have passive detection on the oracle. Revelation is a skill shot and costs more (75) than envision, so a second banshee is potentially destructive. If you have attacked with oracle, you are likely to be too low on energy. 4- If you have managed to build 2 oracles before the banshee hits (1 attacking, 1 defending) energy timings need to be really accurate if you want to have a successful defense. Unit interactions are quite tight in SC2. There is many things to take in account if we have to argue about a buff like this one.If hydralisks were hatchery tech and envision moved to the Mothership core, I have no problem with banshees having cloak by default and +1 range. If not, not going for a 1/1/1 would be a no-brainer. Triple banshee for the rekt. I would prefer banshees having the Warhound missile ability (also affecting buildings) for 50 energy to give them more strength in TvP and giving some possibilities to TvT biomech than the Blizzard rework. Speed upgrade is completely fine, is something that it was needed for the terran air, some high speed air fighter. A change that has to be done (as a protoss I say it) it's the Photon overcharge dynamic. Cheaper, shorter. Emergency panic defense to reinforce and maybe pick some bad microed units that are poking the base. Not a 60s "immunity". | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2626 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:01 JCoto wrote: I don't agree with banshees having the cloak upgrade built in and +range by default. Too much. It will be destructive in every matchup. Banshees are already very strong in TvT and TvZ, and can work in TvP really well. The problematic there in TvP is mainly Photon Cannon as it prevents aggresion for a minute, which is usually enough to let your tech structure finish and get some detection. With +1 range the banshee would already have a great micro potential in all matchups. Even if it's fairly common to go Stargate as a protoss, just take in account that: 1- The typical oracle will be at the enemy base most of the time, so it is fairly possible that you don't have detection available if a banshee hits. Without detection, phoenix and stalkers do nothing against them. 2 - By the time it hits, is very likely that the terran has enough units to defend the oracle, while the protoss may have 2 stalkers and maybe a MSC. If the banshee gets some free shots on the stalkers, it will destroy both. 3 - Oracles are going to have envision removed, so protoss aren't going to have passive detection on the oracle. Revelation is a skill shot and costs more (75) than envision, so a second banshee is potentially destructive. If you have attacked with oracle, you are likely to be too low on energy. 4- If you have managed to build 2 oracles before the banshee hits (1 attacking, 1 defending) energy timings need to be really accurate if you want to have a successful defense. Unit interactions are quite tight in SC2. There is many things to take in account if we have to argue about a buff like this one.If hydralisks were hatchery tech and envision moved to the Mothership core, I have no problem with banshees having cloak by default and +1 range. If not, not going for a 1/1/1 would be a no-brainer. Triple banshee for the rekt. I would prefer banshees having the Warhound missile ability (also affecting buildings) for 50 energy to give them more strength in TvP and giving some possibilities to TvT biomech than the Blizzard rework. Speed upgrade is completely fine, is something that it was needed for the terran air, some high speed air fighter. A change that has to be done (as a protoss I say it) it's the Photon overcharge dynamic. Cheaper, shorter. Emergency panic defense to reinforce and maybe pick some bad microed units that are poking the base. Not a 60s "immunity". 1.- About free detection, 100 gas banshee already broke the TvT MU, free cloack is just ridiculous. 2.- NO, the only reason terrans have enough units some times (maybe most but not all) is because builds are made that way you either open with a lot of marines or die thus making the options very reduced or risky if done, if you open fast banshee theres no way you will have enough marines in time for an oracle let a alone 2 3.- banshee take longer to build than oracles because of chrono boost and are much faster, if you have 2 banshees in the enemy base the protoss will already have a lot of stuff including 2 (if not 3 oracles or 2 and phoenix) oracles, also a banshee can kill 1 stalker but it will be left with very low health 4.- Yes maybe but thats not different with postioning your marines and WM to defend an oracle Overall I don't like the free cloack, not sure about the range, but I like that they are buffing them, different to what you say banshees are actually pretty awful in TvP | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:01 JCoto wrote: I don't agree with banshees having the cloak upgrade built in and +range by default. Too much. It will be destructive in every matchup. Banshees are already very strong in TvT and TvZ, and can work in TvP really well. The problematic there in TvP is mainly Photon Cannon as it prevents aggresion for a minute, which is usually enough to let your tech structure finish and get some detection. With +1 range the banshee would already have a great micro potential in all matchups. Even if it's fairly common to go Stargate as a protoss, just take in account that: 1- The typical oracle will be at the enemy base most of the time, so it is fairly possible that you don't have detection available if a banshee hits. Without detection, phoenix and stalkers do nothing against them. 2 - By the time it hits, is very likely that the terran has enough units to defend the oracle, while the protoss may have 2 stalkers and maybe a MSC. If the banshee gets some free shots on the stalkers, it will destroy both. 3 - Oracles are going to have envision removed, so protoss aren't going to have passive detection on the oracle. Revelation is a skill shot and costs more (75) than envision, so a second banshee is potentially destructive. If you have attacked with oracle, you are likely to be too low on energy. 4- If you have managed to build 2 oracles before the banshee hits (1 attacking, 1 defending) energy timings need to be really accurate if you want to have a successful defense. Unit interactions are quite tight in SC2. There is many things to take in account if we have to argue about a buff like this one.If hydralisks were hatchery tech and envision moved to the Mothership core, I have no problem with banshees having cloak by default and +1 range. If not, not going for a 1/1/1 would be a no-brainer. Triple banshee for the rekt. I would prefer banshees having the Warhound missile ability (also affecting buildings) for 50 energy to give them more strength in TvP and giving some possibilities to TvT biomech than the Blizzard rework. Speed upgrade is completely fine, is something that it was needed for the terran air, some high speed air fighter. A change that has to be done (as a protoss I say it) it's the Photon overcharge dynamic. Cheaper, shorter. Emergency panic defense to reinforce and maybe pick some bad microed units that are poking the base. Not a 60s "immunity". That depends a lot on the timings of the units which we can't say too much about because we don't know how exactly BOs can look like with the changed ecnomoy. But the current situation is that a proxy oracle reaches the Terrans base before the first banshee of a gas first opening is halfway done. You can start your second stargate unit with the first starport unit of a terran in that scenario. If you were too lazy to scout the gas first opening which already gives away that you need detection (mine drop or banshee) you will now see it with the oracle and can return home to your base. Even a proxied banshee can't really do a lot now, because your phoenix+oracle will be home in time as well as a stalker. If you turn of the pulsar canon instead you made a mistake and got punished, that is your own fault. If you needed it you could have a second oracle when the second banshee arives. Since in LotV the Oracle has an amazing spell for combat/delay usage in form of the stasis ward it won't even be a real waste to have 2oracles in the longrun. The banshee might still be really good, but I don't expect it to even have half of the impact that Oracles have on current Terran builds unless the timing relations also change. For TvT this is a completely different story... | ||
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marine63
43 Posts
Carrier - "Moves quicker. 90sec build time. Can release interceptors all instantly and keep fighting even if carrier dies." Link | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:30 marine63 wrote: Was the Carrier build time also decreased? I thought someone said the carrier build time was down from 120 to 90 sec Carrier - "Moves quicker. 90sec build time. Can release interceptors all instantly and keep fighting even if carrier dies." Link As I remember, Tempest now moves quicker. Carrier got only release interceptor and decreased build time. 90 second build-time carrier is already in the mod. Feel free to test | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:44 Existor wrote: As I remember, Tempest now moves quicker. Carrier got only release interceptor and decreased build time. 90 second build-time carrier is already in the mod. Feel free to test If they don't improve the micro, that change is not going to be really THAT important. Just look at what Ahli (one of the Starbow main modders) has done to the carrier. He has polished it a lot, over and over, doing workarounds to allow retarget, internal repairing with behaviours/validators, smart control (auto retreat), following mechanics with interceptors being deployed, realistic interceptor launch (not linear) and more things that he is still working into. It's about time they rework the micro of that unit too. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On December 02 2014 06:35 Ctone23 wrote: I'm having trouble downloading/getting into a lobby. Hopefully that means a lot of people are trying it out! If not I hope it works soon! EU Servers seem to download better. NA ones get hung up. Switch over and it should work out better for you | ||
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duckk
United States622 Posts
Banshees are a bit silly with cloak and range that will be reduced in some way for sure ravagers should have an added cooldown to their ability or something(48-6 vs topp 100 kr gm terrans 38-1 vs na gm terrans) every single game a walkover because of the ravager. The only losses occured because my macro is awful. Would like to see the lurker den morph time or range changed in some way. Have yet to really play vs protoss, but the disruptor seems kind of dumb, need more games to test i guess. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:28 Big J wrote: That depends a lot on the timings of the units which we can't say too much about because we don't know how exactly BOs can look like with the changed ecnomoy. But the current situation is that a proxy oracle reaches the Terrans base before the first banshee of a gas first opening is halfway done. You can start your second stargate unit with the first starport unit of a terran in that scenario. If you were too lazy to scout the gas first opening which already gives away that you need detection (mine drop or banshee) you will now see it with the oracle and can return home to your base. Even a proxied banshee can't really do a lot now, because your phoenix+oracle will be home in time as well as a stalker. If you turn of the pulsar canon instead you made a mistake and got punished, that is your own fault. If you needed it you could have a second oracle when the second banshee arives. Since in LotV the Oracle has an amazing spell for combat/delay usage in form of the stasis ward it won't even be a real waste to have 2oracles in the longrun. The banshee might still be really good, but I don't expect it to even have half of the impact that Oracles have on current Terran builds unless the timing relations also change. For TvT this is a completely different story... Yep, as you say, it's all about timings. We'll have to see economy. However, if we make building times math, timings could be nearly the same. The triple building time (when rushing it) is 180s + unit building time is very close (65+55+60 for protoss+50s (+chronoboost) for oracle, and 65+60+50+60 for terran). And oracles have to recharge 25 energy for revelation (additional 45 seconds). I think that a good point is viability rather than direct countering (eliminating early oracle). Also take in account that we are going to see gas heavy builds because of Hercs and maybe Cyclones (they are both gas expensive) so it's not like it is going to be that easy (for any race) at all with the range, the micro possibilities, its native DPS and now cloak. In HotS, we know easily that 1/1/1 is coming. In LotV, with more gas heavy units, it's not likely we are knowing this so easily. What worries me is that in TvP, it punishes Gateway openers completely and somehow Robo openers too. It is also very dangerous in TvZ and a world in TvT. I think that the banshee change has to be thought and reviewed once economy is reworked and confirmed, and then study it from that point, which is basically the point we have in common. BTW I don't like the new economy, something which makes 2nd worker mine less efficiently and 3rd mining much less is something I prefer, maybe with slightly faster mining times/ reworked microtimings on gathering times. Also I would like to have this applied to gas too, but maybe I'm asking too much. Making bases should be a little bit more rewarding. It probably would need base building times reworked, too (because of hatches mainly). | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 02 2014 06:51 duckk wrote: hercs honestly are terrible units and dont 1 shot lings or drones and will NEVER kill a unit vs a good player Banshees are a bit silly with cloak and range that will be reduced in some way for sure ravagers should have an added cooldown to their ability or something(48-6 vs topp 100 kr gm terrans 38-1 vs na gm terrans) every single game a walkover because of the ravager. The only losses occured because my macro is awful. Would like to see the lurker den morph time or range changed in some way. Have yet to really play vs protoss, but the disruptor seems kind of dumb, need more games to test i guess. Hercs are meant to be supports, not mega destroyers for lings. That's the role of the hellbat. Hercs are designed to mess with banelings lines/zerg micro making the terran less reliant on mines and adding some micro. But the idea of giving it a big damage with splash and meele range basically makes it a gas/charge hellbat. Sure they can improve things about that and make it a distinctive unit. Also its damage ouput is nothing to be neglected in the early game, as they are supports but also harrasers. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
ep, as you say, it's all about timings. We'll have to see economy. However, if we make building times math, timings could be nearly the same. The triple building time (when rushing it) is 180s + unit building time is very close (65+55+60 for protoss+50s (+chronoboost) for oracle, and 65+60+50+60 for terran). And oracles have to recharge 25 energy for revelation (additional 45 seconds). I think that a good point is viability rather than direct countering (eliminating early oracle). The difference though is that the factory costs 100gas and the Cybercore 0. Which is why just looking at the build time doesn't work out, because a Terran cannot build a standard 12rax and then add the factory immidiatly, while the Protoss can start the Cybercore the moment the Gateway finishes. The only way to circumvent that is by going gas first as Terran, which then still delays the barracks quite a bit. Which is why an oracle will be done when the banshee just starts as I said. The economy changes will play a huge role - and from my testings everything but a fast expand is a bad build in LotV so far, because you start the game with enough workers to afford anything that doesn't need tech, but not enough tech to fast attack (you start the game like you are 1:30 in the game economywise, but technologically you are at 0:00 because you have no supply depot/pylon yet). I think something like 1-1-1 will absolutly get stomped by a Nexus first into 1gate+robo, so the moment your 12scout (you can scout at 0:00 with no real drawbacks, as Protoss you can even harass the SCVs) and see anything that could lead to a 1-1-1 (like agasbuild without reaper) you should just be able to put down the robo and comfortably take a victory. The only way to make early aggression possible is buffs to it like the banshee buffs imo. | ||
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b0ub0u
Canada445 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 02 2014 10:46 b0ub0u wrote: I cannot find the game in the SC2 custom games. How do I look for it. You can find it in Arcade. In Custom games you can use it via Extension mods (Create with mod) | ||
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b0ub0u
Canada445 Posts
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SidianTheBard
United States2474 Posts
On December 02 2014 08:35 royalroadweed wrote: Kas vs qxc showmatch was pretty good. Played mainly like wol TvT marine tank, only with cyclones to deal with banshees. Any youtube links? I'd be curious to take a look. Also, are there any good youtubers that have a ton of games played so we could check out all the different race combinations? I know Desrow has a few up, saw the Husky one, I know basetrade did some but I couldn't find them on youtube. | ||
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b0ub0u
Canada445 Posts
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desRow
Canada2654 Posts
On December 02 2014 10:51 SidianTheBard wrote: Any youtube links? I'd be curious to take a look. Also, are there any good youtubers that have a ton of games played so we could check out all the different race combinations? I know Desrow has a few up, saw the Husky one, I know basetrade did some but I couldn't find them on youtube. I'd love to double up on my LotV content. If you guys have any requests/ideas please let me know <3 The dreampool is more than boring right now hah | ||
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aintthatfunny
193 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On December 02 2014 11:06 b0ub0u wrote: I can't download any of them they all stuck at like 20% Problems with NA server. You have to log on to Europe to download the maps. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:01 JCoto wrote: Have you played any matchup in LotV yet? Have pro players did so?I don't agree with banshees having the cloak upgrade built in and +range by default. Too much. It will be destructive in every matchup. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 02 2014 03:01 JCoto wrote: I don't agree with banshees having the cloak upgrade built in and +range by default. Too much. It will be destructive in every matchup. Disagree. Protoss: open stargate to counter banshees. oracle can reveal cloaked banshees for some time. And you have phoenixes / stalkers. Zerg: ravager, queens, merged hydralisk upgrades. Terran: widow mines, cyclones, thors, marines. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 03 2014 01:39 Existor wrote: Disagree. Protoss: open stargate to counter banshees. oracle can reveal cloaked banshees for some time. And you have phoenixes / stalkers. Zerg: ravager, queens, merged hydralisk upgrades. Terran: widow mines, cyclones, thors, marines. Timings & detection is the problem BTW, so you are saying that if Terran goes for gas = Stargate opener? Gateway openers are dead if terran goes gas then. Also take in account that with new revelation, protoss has only access to a reveal once every 2 minutes, so defense against successive banshees would make things tighter. Oracle cost is quite high, Stalkers are not that cheap and not that massable in the early game. Protoss AA early game is no way as powerful as other races, mainly because the units and turrets can't be emergency repaired. That's another reason that makes their turret (cannon) much weaker than Zerg's or Terran's. Now banshees are already strong openers, but really easy to scout. But problably in LotV it won't be so easy as Terran has more gas units and vs a terran you can't count pylons to know is something is being proxied, neither press a button to reveal enemy base or cloaked units. And this applies to Zerg and Toss scouting. As I said yesterday (see post), this banshee change should be reviewed once the economy is changed, so we can study timings. If ordinary builds allows all races to have a relatively easy time defending cloak banshees, there should be no problem. If not, maybe the advantage should be reviewed. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
Ultra boring if its necessary to go phoenix for protoss, mutas for zerg and vikings for terran to deal with this. The way the unit adds to the armee is also usually lame. Compare to a drop harass which has positional units involved. Lurkers, siegetanks, mines and more stuff such as the new statis and so on. Alot more fun to watch. Even more normal units such as marauders/marines in dropships are alot more interesting. Hope in lotv it will be more interesting cuz of easier ways for other to micro and also overall more strategy involved for all races. Mutas are better here over the banshee since the synergy with zerglings feels tactical and the unit is more "combat oriented", meaning it doesnt always have to run against everything. Even the oracle is more interesting since its energy that needs to be used and the utlity the unit provides to the armee is unique and different. In lotv i assume the unit will provide utility to the protoss units/armee and doesnt limit terran builds/strategy against the unit. Not sure why blizzard insists so much with the banshee. Maybe mech will be a thing and adding banshees can be cool, so maybe it will be a cool unit overall but as of right now it feels super lame to focus on this unit so much. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 03 2014 02:51 Foxxan wrote: banshee harass is so boring. Fly in, attack then fly out. Thats the interaction the banshee make. Ultra boring if its necessary to go phoenix for protoss, mutas for zerg and vikings for terran to deal with this. The way the unit adds to the armee is also usually lame. Compare to a drop harass which has positional units involved. Lurkers, siegetanks, mines and more stuff such as the new statis and so on. Alot more fun to watch. Even more normal units such as marauders/marines in dropships are alot more interesting. Hope in lotv it will be more interesting cuz of easier ways for other to micro and also overall more strategy involved for all races. Mutas are better here over the banshee since the synergy with zerglings feels tactical and the unit is more "combat oriented", meaning it doesnt always have to run against everything. Even the oracle is more interesting since its energy that needs to be used and the utlity the unit provides to the armee is unique and different. In lotv i assume the unit will provide utility to the protoss units/armee and doesnt limit terran builds/strategy against the unit. Not sure why blizzard insists so much with the banshee. Maybe mech will be a thing and adding banshees can be cool, so maybe it will be a cool unit overall but as of right now it feels super lame to focus on this unit so much. Well, the speed upgrade is something to add use in latergame. Banhsees have potential to be more than harassers and claim a role in mech play as decent AG fighters. I think that they focus more on that other than making it a superopener. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
That is very true, with HotS the timing of anti air and detection was buffed by a huge margin for Zerg and Protoss. So the change comes an expansion to late. Especially the range increase. TvT will be more of an Issue, since you just have to build a banshee and you will hurt the mineral eco. It is basically like a DT now, that actually opens up tech. Protoss might have problems if Photon Overcharge stays ground only, but I currently see no reason to not go Stargate against Terran. As for Zerg HotS Spore change was way to much, time they get scared of the sky again. The only thing thats scary, you don't know if its a cloak Banshee or a Raven. | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On December 03 2014 05:26 FeyFey wrote: That is very true, with HotS the timing of anti air and detection was buffed by a huge margin for Zerg and Protoss. So the change comes an expansion to late. Especially the range increase. TvT will be more of an Issue, since you just have to build a banshee and you will hurt the mineral eco. It is basically like a DT now, that actually opens up tech. Protoss might have problems if Photon Overcharge stays ground only, but I currently see no reason to not go Stargate against Terran. As for Zerg HotS Spore change was way to much, time they get scared of the sky again. The only thing thats scary, you don't know if its a cloak Banshee or a Raven. I dont really understand what you mean....Protoss should be confined to 1 tech tree openers? no thanks | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2626 Posts
On December 03 2014 02:25 JCoto wrote: Timings & detection is the problem BTW, so you are saying that if Terran goes for gas = Stargate opener? Gateway openers are dead if terran goes gas then. Also take in account that with new revelation, protoss has only access to a reveal once every 2 minutes, so defense against successive banshees would make things tighter. Oracle cost is quite high, Stalkers are not that cheap and not that massable in the early game. Protoss AA early game is no way as powerful as other races, mainly because the units and turrets can't be emergency repaired. That's another reason that makes their turret (cannon) much weaker than Zerg's or Terran's. Now banshees are already strong openers, but really easy to scout. But problably in LotV it won't be so easy as Terran has more gas units and vs a terran you can't count pylons to know is something is being proxied, neither press a button to reveal enemy base or cloaked units. And this applies to Zerg and Toss scouting. As I said yesterday (see post), this banshee change should be reviewed once the economy is changed, so we can study timings. If ordinary builds allows all races to have a relatively easy time defending cloak banshees, there should be no problem. If not, maybe the advantage should be reviewed. I don't understand this post :|, yes bansee should be reviewed, but not only banshees, everything should be reviewed since we don't really know how this would play out, I thing overall your opinions are not well focused, we should focus on design and how the new things work, instead of timings and viability of strategies, as you should know everything is most likely already different in Blizzards testing to what we have at the mods, so talking about timings and openers is kinda silly, the stats can be reworked. You should focus on the concept more, what do you like or dislike about the banshee as it is, instead of saying how it will affect builds and timings that don't even exist yet. | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2547 Posts
On December 03 2014 01:39 Existor wrote: Disagree. Protoss: open stargate to counter banshees. oracle can reveal cloaked banshees for some time. And you have phoenixes / stalkers. Zerg: ravager, queens, merged hydralisk upgrades. Terran: widow mines, cyclones, thors, marines. Ravagers to counter cloacked super fast banshee ? This can't be serious.. | ||
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
On December 03 2014 02:51 Foxxan wrote: Not sure why blizzard insists so much with the banshee. Maybe mech will be a thing and adding banshees can be cool, so maybe it will be a cool unit overall but as of right now it feels super lame to focus on this unit so much. Lol did you watch ForGG vs Life g3? Or any other mech vs SH game, honestly, but that one was the epitome of its funness. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 03 2014 07:08 sM.Zik wrote: Ravagers to counter cloacked super fast banshee ? This can't be serious.. Ravagers are hatchery-tech, speedshees are fusion-tech. See difference? | ||
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Mistakes
United States1102 Posts
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 03 2014 05:57 Lexender wrote: I don't understand this post :|, yes bansee should be reviewed, but not only banshees, everything should be reviewed since we don't really know how this would play out, I thing overall your opinions are not well focused, we should focus on design and how the new things work, instead of timings and viability of strategies, as you should know everything is most likely already different in Blizzards testing to what we have at the mods, so talking about timings and openers is kinda silly, the stats can be reworked. You should focus on the concept more, what do you like or dislike about the banshee as it is, instead of saying how it will affect builds and timings that don't even exist yet. We are discussing about timings because the proposed redesing of the banshee is directly related with that. Some ideas are good, but we have to think how strong they can be by the time they would appear (Translated: the strenght of them being rushed). An idea that affects lategame is not as capital as something that hurts openers, because it is probably something that is going to define the metagame and flexibility. It's like mines and templar openings. Bonus damage vs shields and bang, strategy unviable. Just think of Photon Overcharge. Why whas it added? Because early pushes/rushes against protoss expansions were really strong due to the low mobility/production the race has in the early game. The stronger something is in the early game, the more it can punish the game, because it reduces the flexibility of the meta. You won't make a unit like the DTwith some bonus stat (like + speed) requiring twilight council only, right? Because it could be really interesting to make it more common and usable in midgame, but it would be a devastating opener. We are reworking the game to be flexible and fun, not rush friendly. That's the point of the discussion. Time and strenght are two values that are closely related: this is an RTS. What I was talking about is that a unit like the banshee with its buffed capabilities is something that has to be studied after the economy rework. Economy is the first thing that should be clarified before any buff to something that can be early on the field, because if we look at our actual references, it doesn't look very flexibility-friendly . Okay, and now let's focus on design/ concept. What new mechanics are we introducing? - Bonus speed for later game. Adds utility, micro possibilities, skirimishing capability in later game. - Default cloak. Makes the unit cheaper (we don't pay for the bonus utility) and the unit is able to evade damage and forces the need of detection earlier. Adds the earlier need of an extra mechanism to be countered. By default, countering it would be harder. We have to think that if ability upgrades exist is because they create progression and improve units over time. Think for exemple in the Widow mine upgrade, which is quite simple or "stupid" but so important. - Bonus range. Makes the unit easier to micro, stronger against ground units that can counter them. So behind the banshee change, there is almost no revolutionary concept other than lategame speed to make them more capable in fights, which is a weak spot that diserved to be covered and grants more utility throught the game - It adds progression value. The rest is a buff to its actual state that doesn't really change a lot the use of the unit other than making it harder to counter and a bit cheaper, AKA stronger. It's not a real "rework". Of course they will anounce and test some new ideas for it, but what we've got now is that. Again, I want to clarify that I'm not against the change, because we'll have to wait for a defined economy model to think about the impact and rush value of things. But I wanted to point that yes, times matter, because they also define the strength of a unit. Design not only involves theorical design, but also real application. If we have the idea of buffing a unit that it's already quite strong, we should also think how this could affect real game. Now returning to theorical "design concepts", the banshee is already a good unit, but lacks of some capabilities in later game and specially in TvP to use it as an efficient skirmisher/AG fighter. I think that if we walk around the concept of the banshee, we should think about something that adds viability and makes it more accessible/viable to participate in fights and diversificate compositions. Things like changing supply to 2, reducing build time, a mechanic that allows them being reactored in lategame, a new damage spell... Things that favor flexibility and dynamism over strength. New capabilities or scenarios. New uses. Weren't we looking for more intensive micro, refined interactions and flexibility? I think that we should aim for flexibility and fun in LotV, making the game less rigid and strict (which is not the same as demanding). And thus I dislike everything that could be too rush-friendly/timing-friendly. I also think that oracles should have slightly higher energy consumption with the beam on to reduce a bit its aggresive use early, or reducing damage in exchange for more shields. And I also think that it coud be a reasonable time to introduce the Medium armor and rework some unit interactions. | ||
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wcLLg
United States281 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 03 2014 14:54 wcLLg wrote: Is it just me or does Corrosive Bile (the Ravager shot) seem much larger than what we saw in the Blizzcon showmatches? Seems utterly OP in the BaseTrade showmatches, but in the Blizzcon it seemed that even the Dong couldn't hit anything for beans. To be fair it was 2 players controlling 1 race, so very easy to dodge (one doesn't have to worry about macro at all). Another is no offense, but these players that are playing aren't the best either | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
On December 03 2014 08:24 Mistakes wrote: I couldn't get this mod to load for the life of me last night. I spent probably about 30 minutes downloading an 8MB file (supposedly (I have 100MB/s up/down)) and another 30 minutes "Entering Lobby" before closing SC2 down. Maybe the maintenance fixed it today. Hey buddy, try downloading it on the European or Korean servers and then going back to the American server. After it's downloaded it should plug and enter the lobby correctly. btw your name is so ironic right now x_x | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On December 03 2014 11:23 JCoto wrote: Again, I want to clarify that I'm not against the change, because we'll have to wait for a defined economy model to think about the impact and rush value of things. But I wanted to point that yes, times matter, because they also define the strength of a unit. Design not only involves theorical design, but also real application. If we have the idea of buffing a unit that it's already quite strong, we should also think how this could affect real game. I think that we should aim for flexibility and fun in LotV, making the game less rigid and strict (which is not the same as demanding). And thus I dislike everything that could be too rush-friendly/timing-friendly. I also think that oracles should have slightly higher energy consumption with the beam on to reduce a bit its aggresive use early, or reducing damage in exchange for more shields. And I also think that it coud be a reasonable time to introduce the Medium armor and rework some unit interactions. What if this extension mod was combined with this extension mod - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/471776-mod-double-harvesting-better-saturation-curve so that we could forcibly test theories the community has about BW-esque mining and the value of expanding? From the few games I've watched of this extension, they seem to just stay on low economy and cycle through the bases, without having much dynamism to their play, or they just play defensive macro games and mine out the map and then do one final large battle, but maybe 10 to 15 minutes earlier than would happen in HotS. I'm interested to see if "the" solution can be tested via this unique opportunity that attracts so many players who wouldn't normally kowtow to extensions, but are excited by the prospect of playing with the announced LotV changes. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 03 2014 16:11 Pontius Pirate wrote: What if this extension mod was combined with this extension mod - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/471776-mod-double-harvesting-better-saturation-curve so that we could forcibly test theories the community has about BW-esque mining and the value of expanding? From the few games I've watched of this extension, they seem to just stay on low economy and cycle through the bases, without having much dynamism to their play, or they just play defensive macro games and mine out the map and then do one final large battle, but maybe 10 to 15 minutes earlier than would happen in HotS. I'm interested to see if "the" solution can be tested via this unique opportunity that attracts so many players who wouldn't normally kowtow to extensions, but are excited by the prospect of playing with the announced LotV changes. Yeah, I like the idea. I think that if you add maybe some mineral more patches and adjust gas mining, a BW like economy is not so bad. The problem is that low econ favors more some races in terms of felixiblity. But the concept just sounds fine, because it's a way to diversify economy and add the tactitcal benefit if having bases. I think they should aim for that type of Broodwar/Starbow like economy, and of course, tweaking some unit costs to make the game more flexible according to a new econ. That's another problem they have to face: an already economy stablished meta. Maybe they could apply this type of mod with maybe some increase on mining per trip/mining/smart worker rotation time so in the end, you get a (quite) low reduction of total mining, but you get a benefit of having low cout of workers per base (around 12). I would even cut 1 worker per gas, mantaining more or less gas mining ratio, and reducing base building costs/times a bit. Let's play the RTS game. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
Feels like a whole new game, in a good way (sc3) There are brand new cheeses (my friend walled off with a 2 gate at nat choke, and was able to 2 gate rush me WHILE taking a nat and playing normally, Sick) The game is VERY fast pace, feels like BW honestly, action all the time. in fact, I think I was on 5 base vs his 3, and I never got over 140 supply? And the main runs dry, like around 12 min. So you can't just forever all in off 2 base. The change is amazing | ||
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motlycys
United States2 Posts
1. Lurkers have priority; not sure if this should be because... 2. The hotkey for both Lurkers' "hold fire" and Ravagers' "Corrosive Bile" is F. So if I have my both units in one group, I can accidentally hold fire, when I'm wanting to attack. Seems really counter intuitive. Maybe Hold Fire should be on a different key? Like H? | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
I was playing on one of the maps, maybe it was the divide? And there is a small pillar near the 4th base or whatever above bottom right. You can land units up there, i dunno if this was on purpose. Anyway, the bug was I put a lurker there. Then I started dropping all kinds of units up there. I found what I think is a bug where you can have multiple units burrowed in the same space (this is not a mechanic in sc2 even though it was in BW). Might have to do with the way a lurker is coded to burrow priority or something? Or maybe something to do with the ravager as well? PS- the units dont all burrow and unburrow on the same press, you have to tab through them) I put ravagers, infestors, lurker and some lings all burrowed up on that pillar, I probably could have done more. The 2nd thing is what I think is a bug with the cyclone. The lock on attack says it's the same attack speed in the tooltip, however when you lock on it starts shooting super fast and you can basically kill anything early game for a few minutes before having to go home to repair. PS- the way units burrow in this game has always been pretty retarded. They fumble around trying to find their own spot in the same way units fumble around when you target something large. Sometimes they don't even burrow in a timely manner. I think blizzard needs to fix that issue and allow lurkers to burrow on top of anything and not block roaches burrow moving etc. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
You can fit 4 of them in an overlord and the spell it casts is on a short cool down. So you can constantly harass with them and explode units every 3 seconds almost indefinitely. Best application is on the refinery/workers going in/out since even if it misses you will eventually burn it down. back in the alpha on WOL reapers had a similar spell where they would throw a timed bomb. I think I saw boxer or someone using this and just annihilating everything. It got changed shortly there after. Proposed changes: 2 per overlord, increase the cooldown or change it to a mana cost. So as to not get owned by feedback too much, perhaps make the mana cap on them like 45 or something and the spell cost 15. As it is now, it hard couters Forcefields too much anyway. FF cost way more and 1 ravager can absorb infinite mana from sentries without tiring out. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
Guy can snipe your queens and spire before it finishes, kill your spores for his oracles that came earlier, etc. Hydras are no use because it just outruns them with it's 500 HP or whatever. Even if you tried to get burrow and ambush him or something he could just come with an ob if he's smart. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 04 2014 20:23 MarlieChurphy wrote: Also carriers are pretty hard for zerg to deal with if they just throw their interceptors out and run away. Zerg has no darkswarm like they had in bw to deal with mass air from protoss. But they have agressive mutation to give +5 damage to hydralisks. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 04 2014 16:03 MarlieChurphy wrote: The ravager seems overpowered. You can fit 4 of them in an overlord and the spell it casts is on a short cool down. So you can constantly harass with them and explode units every 3 seconds almost indefinitely. Best application is on the refinery/workers going in/out since even if it misses you will eventually burn it down. back in the alpha on WOL reapers had a similar spell where they would throw a timed bomb. I think I saw boxer or someone using this and just annihilating everything. It got changed shortly there after. Proposed changes: 2 per overlord, increase the cooldown or change it to a mana cost. So as to not get owned by feedback too much, perhaps make the mana cap on them like 45 or something and the spell cost 15. As it is now, it hard couters Forcefields too much anyway. FF cost way more and 1 ravager can absorb infinite mana from sentries without tiring out. Ravager was already fixed in next patch. Current aoe radius of corrosive bile is wrong and not same as on blizzcon. And no, we are not doing any proposed, suggested, fanmade, etc changes. Only those that we're trying to extract from the videos, playtesting at Blizzcon build and showmatches. | ||
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cpower
228 Posts
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On December 05 2014 01:27 cpower wrote: i cant download any of them and get stuck at 11%... change to EU server, download it there, then come back to NA....unless your playing on EU already, then I cant help you. NA server has trouble with downloading | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
Glad that Blizzard acknowledged this and are spreading the "news" about this mod. | ||
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
On December 05 2014 02:58 Ramiz1989 wrote: https://twitter.com/StarCraft/status/540564722492252160 Glad that Blizzard acknowledged this and are spreading the "news" about this mod. Yay Blizzard!Any news when they are releasing the Beta version? | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
Is that how they were in Blizzcon? Because I had to guess to to attack and split, which is nearly impossible. There was one halarious moment when I ganked one into my army with a viper... T T | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On December 05 2014 03:34 EndOfLineTv wrote: I was playing with Desrow. On game 4, he massed disruptors. On my end, they look the same when activated and when they are in DEATH MODE. Is that how they were in Blizzcon? Because I had to guess to to attack and split, which is nearly impossible. There was one halarious moment when I ganked one into my army with a viper... T T at the very least there is a speed change (2.75 to 3.75 I believe) but I would imagine its not intended for the animation to be unseen in death mode | ||
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woopr
United States112 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 05 2014 03:34 EndOfLineTv wrote: Is that how they were in Blizzcon? Because I had to guess to to attack and split, which is nearly impossible. No, current disruptors are not exactly same as they were in videos and showmatches. But I can say that next update will recorrect many stats so they will look and act closer to what we saw whenever they were shown. | ||
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
On December 05 2014 03:34 EndOfLineTv wrote: I was playing with Desrow. On game 4, he massed disruptors. On my end, they look the same when activated and when they are in DEATH MODE. Is that how they were in Blizzcon? Because I had to guess to to attack and split, which is nearly impossible. There was one halarious moment when I ganked one into my army with a viper... T T Can you tell me your graphic settings? You should at least see the plates around the Disruptor change from gold to transparent blue. This is the first report of this problem so I'll try to run a few tests and see what I can improve. | ||
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Mahanaim
Korea (South)1002 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 05 2014 07:40 Mahanaim wrote: Hey guys, weren't the hydralisk speed and range upgrades merged together in the Blizzcon build? Because I'm sure I read that somewhere. I don't know, this is one of changes of next update. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 04 2014 22:01 Existor wrote: But they have agressive mutation to give +5 damage to hydralisks. Didn't try that, I guess I'll give it a shot next time it comes up. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 04 2014 22:15 Existor wrote: Ravager was already fixed in next patch. Current aoe radius of corrosive bile is wrong and not same as on blizzcon. And no, we are not doing any proposed, suggested, fanmade, etc changes. Only those that we're trying to extract from the videos, playtesting at Blizzcon build and showmatches. So you guys have no plans to balance the game from a players perspective along side blizzards own internal testing? That seems bad in a number of ways. I understand you just want to make it as precise as it was at blizzcon for the novel aspect etc. However, Blizzard used a really imbalanced build just to demonstrate the capabilities of the new stuff. They probably made stuff really imba (after it was already tested out internally) just to show off. Could you at least make a 2nd mod that tries to balance stuff? We might actually help speed up the dev of the core game, or provide different insights and aspects perhaps they didn't see internally. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Could you at least make a 2nd mod that tries to balance stuff? We might actually help speed up the dev of the core game, or provide different insights and aspects perhaps they didn't see internally. Maybe, but that will be just separated and different project. And I think you need to play a bit more with all the new units (fixed ones!) and try to understand entire picture. For example only now I realized that Carrier's ability "Release interceptors" has good and bad sides, its not OP at all. Rewatching ZvP showmatch on Nimbus, I noticed, how zerg just run away from these interceptors, that flying around specific zone, and tried to attack defenceless Carriers. So it is clear, that by releasing interceptors you can make them independent from Carriers, maning that you already can start build new ones and if carrier dies, interceptors are still here and will continue deal tons of damage. But on other side, if you run away from "interceptor zone" and for example catch Carriers interceptor-less, that can end pretty badly for them, since they are in rebuilding process. I kinda love that design decision. You can release those interceptors at specific place, leaving carriers in safe spot (you can recall them!). But other factions have ways to counter interceptors pretty quickly - Agressive hydralisks (12 + 5 = 17 damage with hydra speed) and Agressive Infested Terrans. Can be also Agressive Queens, but not so viable, maybe only in emergency situations (one carrier rush lol). | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2626 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 05 2014 12:22 Lexender wrote: So is Cyclone good now? last time it wasn't working like in Blizzcon It will work as it should with next update | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 05 2014 15:04 Doodsmack wrote: Wish this was more popular on NA lol it's not played at all. There are problems on NA with downloading and uploading maps, as I know. And blizzards are aware of this issue. Something wrong with their servers maybe. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On December 05 2014 15:04 Doodsmack wrote: Wish this was more popular on NA lol it's not played at all. 2nd most played mod on AM after BGH. Not to bad for being out for 1.5 weeks | ||
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Brutaxilos
United States2624 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 05 2014 11:19 Existor wrote: Maybe, but that will be just separated and different project. And I think you need to play a bit more with all the new units (fixed ones!) and try to understand entire picture. For example only now I realized that Carrier's ability "Release interceptors" has good and bad sides, its not OP at all. Rewatching ZvP showmatch on Nimbus, I noticed, how zerg just run away from these interceptors, that flying around specific zone, and tried to attack defenceless Carriers. So it is clear, that by releasing interceptors you can make them independent from Carriers, maning that you already can start build new ones and if carrier dies, interceptors are still here and will continue deal tons of damage. But on other side, if you run away from "interceptor zone" and for example catch Carriers interceptor-less, that can end pretty badly for them, since they are in rebuilding process. I kinda love that design decision. You can release those interceptors at specific place, leaving carriers in safe spot (you can recall them!). But other factions have ways to counter interceptors pretty quickly - Agressive hydralisks (12 + 5 = 17 damage with hydra speed) and Agressive Infested Terrans. Can be also Agressive Queens, but not so viable, maybe only in emergency situations (one carrier rush lol). Oh they must be bugged then, because I ran away from them at one point and the interceptors followed me around from his half of the map to mine and I didn't even notice til my units got home and were still fighting them where I had lost most of my shit by the time it got there. Also watched that FFA game jakatak and the other dude casted, and fungal bugged out the interceptors I think. Howerver earlier in the game I noticed the interceptors were sort of stuck in the air, I thought it was just where he built them and was like an artifact of that that not everyone could see, but I guess it wasn't. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Oh they must be bugged then, because I ran away from them at one point and the interceptors followed me around from his half of the map to mine and I didn't even notice til my units got home and were still fighting them where I had lost most of my shit by the time it got there. In showmatch they clearly stay at their "zone". This can be bug. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
husky: QXC vs POKEBUNNY + Show Spoiler + DraKaTaK: FFAs, Desrow vs Risky , Arium vs Intense + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Anacreor
Netherlands291 Posts
On December 05 2014 18:42 MarlieChurphy wrote: There are some LOTV mod vods here if anyone wants to watch: + Show Spoiler + husky: QXC vs POKEBUNNY + Show Spoiler + DraKaTaK: FFAs, Desrow vs Risky , Arium vs Intense + Show Spoiler + Thank you, that was exactly what I was looking for! | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On December 05 2014 06:32 SoulFilcher wrote: Can you tell me your graphic settings? You should at least see the plates around the Disruptor change from gold to transparent blue. This is the first report of this problem so I'll try to run a few tests and see what I can improve. Lowest possible. I have played more games since then. There may be a "change" between modes. But at least on my settings, it looks VERY similar. Really hard to see when playing at the 30 min mark. Btw, it is the saddest thing ever when you know that they are in "off mode" you try to gank one with a viper, Only to turn into INVINCABLE mode right in the middle of your army.. Happened to me twice yesterday lol. T T | ||
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althaz
Australia1001 Posts
. My build is pretty weak, but it lines up pretty much perfectly and comes out quickly. Flying tanks = awesome. Hope this stays in the final game. | ||
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mirmalis
Lithuania1 Post
1. Amergency Repair has no animation. (Thor) 2. Purification Nova has no animation. (Disruptor) 3. You can lock on on your own unit (it does nothing to it) and whenever enemy unit/building gets in range of cyclone it starts shooting at it as if that target was locked on. (Cyclone) 4. I cannot seem to find a way to change hotkeys for 'Infestation Pit', it's shown that there is 'Neural Parasite' and 'Endure Locust' to learn instead of 'Flying Locust'. (Infestation Pit) 5. Selected Ravager doesn't have circle around it indicating it is selected while burrowed. (Ravager) 6. Ravager burrows instantly. (Ravager) | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 27 2014 18:19 Big J wrote:Ravager shot radius looks much bigger than in the blizzcon videos? Also, can someone confirm it does splash? Told ya so. Also hurray for nerfing the disruptor, that cooldown was so broken. Great work guys, GREAT work!!!! | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
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Eraz0rZ
Netherlands47 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On December 06 2014 03:38 Eraz0rZ wrote: Glad with disruptors, that zerg doesnt have neural parasite anymore.. can you imagine. them neuralling your disruptor when its in the middle of your army.. damn... I'll miss the shenanigans that a mind-control abilities had. We didn't see them much, but they were funny when they did show up. I hope the new co-op mission mode will keep neural parasite. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On December 06 2014 04:19 ejozl wrote: Don't worry it's all within their plans. Soon they'll give Protoss the Dark Archon and thereby Mind Control. Then I hope Terrans get some Monks for some wololol action as we convert the Protoss and Zerg scum to become slaves to the Imperium of Man. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On December 06 2014 05:02 ejozl wrote: Fun fact: If you use disintegration on your own building, you can Chrono Boost it and make it damage faster. I can just imagine someone using that to kill their own gateway (in order to get out of their walled base) as fast as possible | ||
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
On December 06 2014 05:02 ejozl wrote: Fun fact: If you use disintegration on your own building, you can Chrono Boost it and make it damage faster. I am assuming this works on enemy Protoss buildings, as well. Incentive not to chrono lol | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On December 06 2014 05:04 purakushi wrote: I am assuming this works on enemy Protoss buildings, as well. Incentive not to chrono lol Does it do more damage, or does just take less time? | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
I'd think it works the same on enemy buildings. | ||
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ImmortalZero
United States9 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 06 2014 05:34 ImmortalZero wrote: *BUG* If the ravager uses Corrosive Bile on itself it will not take any damage, but if it uses Corrosive Bile on a friendly unit it will take friendly fire damage. Isn't it intended? | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
nope, its not. we'll be fixing that in the next patch. Thanks | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On December 06 2014 08:21 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote: nope, its not. we'll be fixing that in the next patch. Thanks So, it's supposed to be able to do damage against itself, right? | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 06 2014 08:21 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote: nope, its not. we'll be fixing that in the next patch. Thanks Oh, it was intended some time ago, but now it was corrected? Okay. We need Carbot to show that "self-kill" feature in one of StarCrafts :-D So, it's supposed to be able to do damage against itself, right? Swarm Hosts already can kill themselfs... Ravens too, if you have friends (other units to seeker them or just turrets). So many suicide ideas here | ||
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SC2Toastie
Netherlands5725 Posts
On December 06 2014 08:54 Existor wrote: Oh, it was intended some time ago, but now it was corrected? Okay. We need Carbot to show that "self-kill" feature in one of StarCrafts :-D Swarm Hosts already can kill themselfs... Ravens too, if you have friends (other units to seeker them). So many suicide ideas here Templar, Banelings, Infestors, Ghost can as well | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
It's supposed to time out after 20 seconds right? | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
http://drop.sc/389933 http://drop.sc/389934 http://drop.sc/389932 | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 06 2014 12:45 MarlieChurphy wrote: I think the PDD timer is not how it was on blizzcon, or at least it seemed that way on the last map I played. It's supposed to time out after 20 seconds right? Check showmatches. PDD lasted very short time. Exactly that time they need in one fight. | ||
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Babru
196 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 06 2014 15:44 Babru wrote: noticed that the ravager now is fixed (smaller AOE) on the LotV maps at EU server, but the hydra combined range/speed upg is not. Will it be added asap? Check the latest patch 1.3, where Ravager got some balance tweaks. What about merged Hydralisk upgrade. It works now as intended - Muscular Augments will upgrade your Hydralisk speed off-creep and range. Right now upgrade description seems old, it only says about speed off-creep. | ||
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Babru
196 Posts
On December 06 2014 16:06 Existor wrote: Check the latest patch 1.3, where Ravager got some balance tweaks. What about merged Hydralisk upgrade. It works now as intended - Muscular Augments will upgrade your Hydralisk speed off-creep and range. Right now upgrade description seems old, it only says about speed off-creep. Nvm. The combined hydra range/speed is added to the maps and works as intended indeed. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 06 2014 17:03 blade55555 wrote: So any show matches with someone going lurkers? I have yet to see a single zerg even try lurkers I'll quote my opinion on lurkers from reddit. it's just my opinion, of course high-level pro-players can develop new strategies and utilize Lurkers in a stronger way. But I think, with the current fast paced gameplay, Lurkers MAY be behind banelings. I think, in ZvT lurkers will be more for defence because of their 6 range. They have kinda "lower range" than speedy banelings on creep. Under that I mean that it will be a lot easier to hit terran units with fast banelings than hit them with lurkers, because terran will just run away and around. Lurkers are not that mobile unit. They are probably better for turtle pushing, allowing to estabilish on key map position for future reinforcements. I think, ravagers and banelings will be more deadly weapons, while Lurkers may be more defensive unit, which can be good in ZvZ (good to shut down tons of zerglings / roaches / banelings). In ZvP? Stalkers can dodge them and blink away. Zealots? Who ever will go with zealots onto lurkers? As defence? Again - yes, like in ZvT. Lurkers are immune to force field stuff (like ravagers). I have feeling that 9 range will be moved back to lair during official alpha/beta tests. Because right now I see only too few scenarios where Lurkers will be good. They are like Swarm Host, but shorter range. Still immobile, easy to dodge / walk around, and they aren't that cheap. At what they will be REALLY good - against terran marine / widow mine / hellbat pressure (when it constantly produces from barracks, and terran keeps all his apm and control on splitting and running marines against banelings / zerglings). I think Blizzard sees that and thats why they added lurker. Lurkers allow for zergs to have more stable defence and time to switch into something that zergs wants (not terran, that dictating entire game by forcing zerg to build ling muta bane). It's just my opinion, so maybe there can be different points of view on new units and their usage. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 06 2014 21:06 Grumbels wrote: Instead of moving everything to lair blizzard should just make hive more accessible. People keep asking for e.g. t3 upgrades to move to lair as well. Well, Ravagers are under Lair tech and Lurkers an extra building above it. I like the low tech requirment for ravagers - though I could see a lair requirment for the morph too, but please no extra building or upgrade - so that you can combat cliff abuse very early and allow for broader mapdesign. The problem with early Hive isn't as much that it is doable, but it only works out for Vipers. If you need an extra building on top of an infestation pit+Hive it's too much time and resource investment to rush it. And going Infestation Pit+Hive only to line up upgrades just doesn't work out. I think the Infestor buff could already help a bit in that direction. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Well, Ravagers are under Lair tech and Lurkers an extra building above it. I like the low tech requirment for ravagers - though I could see a lair requirment for the morph too, but please no extra building or upgrade - so that you can combat cliff abuse very early and allow for broader mapdesign. I think, blizzard can create a new building, morphable (or separate one) from Roach Warren. And keep ravagers at tier1, just a bit later. Or they can make Ravagers just Lair tech, like they did with Viper, which has no building (no spire, no Viper Nest or something like that). Also I could agree about zerg t3 upgrades. Why they are not on Infestation pit. But, there can be a reason behind it. I saw some games where zerg have won with 1-2 upgrades behind. So it's just a specific Zerg mechanic, less focused on upgrades and a bit more focused on numbers and remaxing army. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On December 06 2014 17:03 blade55555 wrote: So any show matches with someone going lurkers? I have yet to see a single zerg even try lurkers I use some lurkers vs my brotoss from TTseed. I sent the replay to Jakatak. He may cast it if he likes it | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On December 06 2014 12:52 MarlieChurphy wrote: Also Jakatak, Got a couple of FFAs today. Better blizzard maps than shitty toxic slums. Check em out: http://drop.sc/389933 http://drop.sc/389934 http://drop.sc/389932 did you play these on 1.3? If I host a FFA, what are the best maps for it? | ||
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Milantes
Germany22 Posts
If you have multiple Cyclone's in a control Group, and you use lock on, it will be always the one cyclone closest to the target executing the order. Now the problem with this is, if you have 2 Cyclone's, one right and one left, there's one enemy right and one left, if the right Cyclone targets the left enemy with lock on, and you initiate a lock on on the right target with your Cyclone control group, the right Cyclone, that's already locked on to the left enemy will stop being locked on to the left enemy and switch to the right one because he is the closest one to the new target, despite the left Cyclone not being locked on to anything. Oh and the worst part is, the Cyclone that was previously locked on to the left target will not actually lock on to the right one, it will just drive towards the right one and start auto attacking it. So there's a few things that will have to be done: 1. Priority Change: Closest free Cyclone should execute lock on, not closest overall. 2. If a Cyclone that's locked on to a target gets the order to lock on to another target it should actually do so. Also, let's say I have 9 Cyclones within range 8 of an enemy unit (within lock on range). I initiate 9 times lock on ability on said enemy and only the closest 3 Cyclone's will attack. I believe the additional lock on commands make the Cyclones already locked on move closer to their target, into attack range for no apparrent reason. It's really weird but play with controlling multiple cyclone's and using their lock on ability, it's unusable. | ||
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lpunatic
235 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 07 2014 02:21 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote: did you play these on 1.3? If I host a FFA, what are the best maps for it? There's probably about 4 blizzard maps that are OK for ffa with 8 players (these are 3 of them, can't recall the names). As far as non blizzard maps, I'm not sure. There may be a decent The Hunters clone though. Also, if you need a cocaster anytime you can message me, I'm pretty knowledgeable about the game since I've been playing since WOL beta off and on and in BW and have played with lots of top level players etc. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
Seems like a better idea that to mix it up with this thread. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 08 2014 01:34 Ramiz1989 wrote: Just finished those ZvT and PvT VODs between Qxc and Pokebunny, and damn they were super fun! If LotV would be nearly as active and fun as this I will absolutely love it! People will figure out stuff. It doesn't matter what it looks right now. Right now nobody knows how well X-army/situation plays against Y-army/situation. There are going to be a lot of those games like with oracles, when Protoss suddenly found out that oracles just kill terrans that don't have 5marines on hold positon in their mineral line. Or when Zergs started to understand how the AI of widow mines could be abused. Or when Terrans found out that two hellbats still made for a good drop after the beta size nerf. Top-players might just stick to their guns in the first tournaments, just because they will kill people with HotS strategies until LotV strategies are being understood. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On December 08 2014 02:01 Big J wrote: People will figure out stuff. It doesn't matter what it looks right now. Right now nobody knows how well X-army/situation plays against Y-army/situation. There are going to be a lot of those games like with oracles, when Protoss suddenly found out that oracles just kill terrans that don't have 5marines on hold positon in their mineral line. Or when Zergs started to understand how the AI of widow mines could be abused. Or when Terrans found out that two hellbats still made for a good drop after the beta size nerf. Top-players might just stick to their guns in the first tournaments, just because they will kill people with HotS strategies until LotV strategies are being understood. I understand all of that, I just mean that I would like it to be more active and fun, so far it seems to me that it will be but of course we can't tell since nothing is final. I am also among the guys that absolutely loves the 12 starting workers change as it speeds up the game a lot, while not completely destroying early pokes and cheeses. | ||
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ArgusDreamer
Canada63 Posts
I've done some testing and you can get 2 corruptors out by 5:28-5:34 minute mark depends on how economically effective you do it. ( you can have a natural building + 2 queens followed right after the spire starts being built. You can use them to snipe harvesters at 8 range with marine-like dps. You can out-range turrets/cannons/spores. It gets out before oracle cheese hits unless it gets proxxied in a really shitty position for you and you fail to scout, but that should be your own fault if you lose to that. They're basically banshees that are anti air with more hp, regenerate and can be healed. The spire opens up the tech path to fast mutas. I've also experimented with going instant infestation pit as i create my 2 corruptors. To rush hive whilst building third and harassing with the 2 corruptors. Transition into heavy amount of queens or go speedlings/ infestors. Or more muta/corruptor whatever you scout for and think you need. A lot of things are doable if you go fast spire. As a whole 2 corruptors do more for you than 4-6 mutas in terms of versatility/ long range sniping and decent anti air. So overall conclusion is it's a minor tech rush to get harass/tech option to harass/attack more or gives you the option to greedily tech even more. With all those options come fancy ways of defending and it can hopefully be explored and streamlined by the zerg player to adapt how he sees fit. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
It's first time, when I'm, as zerg player, love new Protoss and Terran units. I love that you can hit-n-run Disruptors (love their name on Desrow streams - Desrowpters :D ) while they are in standard mode with just zerglings! I love the 2nd role of corruptors - tanky and slow acid-spray aerial unit. Maybe they will make them less strong and closer to old void rays (if keep this idea), so they need to stay longer to deal more damage. | ||
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Templarfreak
United States39 Posts
On December 08 2014 10:00 Existor wrote: I really hope they stay with all the current ideas and just tweak numbers. Many of those ideas feels really interesting and they give a lot more ways to play. It's first time, when I'm, as zerg player, love new Protoss and Terran units. I love that you can hit-n-run Disruptors (love their name on Desrow streams - Desrowpters :D ) while they are in standard mode with just zerglings! I love the 2nd role of corruptors - tanky and slow acid-spray aerial unit. Maybe they will make them less strong and closer to old void rays (if keep this idea), so they need to stay longer to deal more damage. I agree, I like almost all the changes in LotV. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
http://drop.sc/390050 http://drop.sc/390049 GG! PS- I compiled a list of 8 player maps that have potential for FFA. Some of them not as good as the others but whatever. I listed them in best to worst, however I haven't played all of them yet, most of them. Zenith, Abyss, Old Country, Forbidden Planet, Atlas Station, Writhing Morass, Lava Flow, Primordial Grave, Sand Canyon, Tempest, Toxic Slums. There is also a good map from a TL map contest called Tarantula. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/460144-8-tarantula | ||
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Garnet
Vietnam9014 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Really nice 8p map. Like one from blizzards, but with a different landscape and base placement http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/303441-8-crux-volcanic Already suggested some posts ago, this one can fit with 8p ffa game too http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-maps/460144-8-tarantula | ||
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
On December 08 2014 15:12 Garnet wrote: when will you upload this to KR and SEA? It is supposed to be online on those servers since the first release. | ||
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Garnet
Vietnam9014 Posts
On December 08 2014 22:14 SoulFilcher wrote: It is supposed to be online on those servers since the first release. But only NA has the custom maps. Do KR and SEA need to use the extension mod instead? | ||
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
On December 08 2014 23:50 Garnet wrote: But only NA has the custom maps. Do KR and SEA need to use the extension mod instead? We will publish the maps to these servers, but right now the extension mod and the unit tester map are the only options. | ||
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Pseudorandom
United States120 Posts
ZvZ the maps make mutas so useful (WoL/HotS I feel are nothing but Roach v Roach). Even Roach v Roach is better with the addition of a few Ravagers to really turn the tide in a fight and force more micro (on both sides). ZvT has been a blast with lurkers finally being back (wanted them since they got removed in WoL beta =P). Though a lot of the early harass from T seems to be a bit cut down (reaper/hellion openings). I personally think that is a bit to do with the maps I've been playing on (God's Garden mostly). ZvP Ravagers are super boss for early pressure, and ling/infestor/nydus has some unreal potential for a counter-attack based-trade focused style that I have been LOVING playing. All in all my two-cents is LotV has great potential, and I think it will be better then HotS. HotS was better then WoL and hopefully they keep that trend up. Thanks to the team that worked and put this together, it is a TON of fun. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
A unit which is as massable as the ravager shouldn't have such an ability imo. Rest of the zerg changes are nice, even though corruptors still are boring as fuck, pls remove them and give zerg an interesting aa unit. Didn't play with terran much, but the herc seems to be gimmicky. Not sure about the cyclone yet. Can you build those as antiair for mech? Probably not i guess. Disruptors are fun, new oracle ability is fun, but toss still needs some more stability i think. So yeah, pretty nice overall, even though i don't agree with some stuff personally | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 09 2014 05:41 The_Red_Viper wrote: I hope Ravagers won't make it into LOTV, at least not with the current design (better roach with incredible ability). A unit which is as massable as the ravager shouldn't have such an ability imo. Rest of the zerg changes are nice, even though corruptors still are boring as fuck, pls remove them and give zerg an interesting aa unit. Didn't play with terran much, but the herc seems to be gimmicky. Not sure about the cyclone yet. Can you build those as antiair for mech? Probably not i guess. Disruptors are fun, new oracle ability is fun, but toss still needs some more stability i think. So yeah, pretty nice overall, even though i don't agree with some stuff personally Remember when roaches were 1 supply Maybe now Ravagers will be more expensive, or have no attack damage, or smaller range or ability. Who knows. But I'd like to see them stay at tier1 with some nerfs. Zergs already have tons of units at lair. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
And as stated before i don't like the "better roach" part either, hehe, ravagers suck -.- | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On December 09 2014 07:38 The_Red_Viper wrote: I actually would prefer it if the ability did no dmg at all and did something else instead (in addition to breaking forcefields) And as stated before i don't like the "better roach" part either, hehe, ravagers suck -.- ravagers are the only thing that lets Z deal with air deathballs. Z AA is so bad anyways and now P and T air gets even buffed...so yes Z need some sort of AoE AA buff. but would also like to see corruptors changed into something useful of an AA unit.... | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 09 2014 08:02 Decendos wrote: ravagers are the only thing that lets Z deal with air deathballs. Z AA is so bad anyways and now P and T air gets even buffed...so yes Z need some sort of AoE AA buff. but would also like to see corruptors changed into something useful of an AA unit.... That argumentation is irrelevant though. Ravagers being the solution to the problem you are stating doesn't mean that ravagers themselves are a "well designed unit". Swarmhosts are also needed in many cases. I mean i agree that zerg anti air is pretty bad overall (or at least VERY boring, mass corrupters, yay), but a tier one unit with spamable aoe dmg can't be the solution if you ask me :D If they wanna make the roaches better in the lategame, they should do that differently imo, some posters here have suggested better burrow mechanics for example. But don't make a unit which is good in pretty much any situation, which the ravager clearly is (and spaming abilities isn't my idea of fun either tbh, at least not in a rts game) | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On December 09 2014 08:10 blade55555 wrote: Ravagesare awesome and am iIright that in total they are a 3 supply unit?. Can'twait to use this unit and say f u fforceful every time. The funny part is that i think it is better to just spam on the enemy army with the ability instead of breaking the forcefields :D At least for the most part. | ||
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Decendos
Germany1338 Posts
On December 09 2014 08:09 The_Red_Viper wrote: That argumentation is irrelevant though. Ravagers being the solution to the problem you are stating doesn't mean that ravagers themselves are a "well designed unit". Swarmhosts are also needed in many cases. I mean i agree that zerg anti air is pretty bad overall (or at least VERY boring, mass corrupters, yay), but a tier one unit with spamable aoe dmg can't be the solution if you ask me :D If they wanna make the roaches better in the lategame, they should do that differently imo, some posters here have suggested better burrow mechanics for example. But don't make a unit which is good in pretty much any situation, which the ravager clearly is (and spaming abilities isn't my idea of fun either tbh, at least not in a rts game)tier 1? i thought it is lairtech? at least it should be lairtech. also mass corruptor is just bad and no good AA at all. with the nerf of the SH and the buff to T and P AA Z desperatly needs something to deal with lategame deathballs. so i like blizz introducing spacecontrol and AoE antideathballclumping units like the ravager and the lurker. imo they should now redesign the corruptor to some more interesting AA unit and redesign roaches and hydras to weaker 1 supply versions so Z could really attack all over the place like blizz intends for all races in LotV. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
hydras to weaker 1 supply versions so Z could really attack all over the place like blizz intends for all races in LotV. Zergs can do it with current speedroaches, speedlings, ravagers (harass mineral line yay!), nydus, lurker drops, corruptor rush (slower but more tankier worker killers). | ||
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archon256
United States363 Posts
On December 09 2014 08:24 The_Red_Viper wrote: The funny part is that i think it is better to just spam on the enemy army with the ability instead of breaking the forcefields :D At least for the most part. Yeah but they could do something like nerf the damage done to ground units, make them do no damage to structures and buff the damage done to air units. Then you'd build Ravagers as support units to break forcefields, and only mass them to bolster your Hydras for anti-air. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On December 09 2014 10:33 archon256 wrote: Yeah but they could do something like nerf the damage done to ground units, make them do no damage to structures and buff the damage done to air units. Then you'd build Ravagers as support units to break forcefields, and only mass them to bolster your Hydras for anti-air. I wouldn't say no to buff to their anti-air damage, but as far as preventing them from being so massable, I think their standard attack needs to be changed to be much lower DPS, or be targeted DPS towards a certain specific unit type, perhaps armored. I see them as the potential savior of ZvZ, as a unit that can thoroughly put an end to mass Roach. Currently they do 16 damage to ground, at an attack period of 1.3, which is I believe 53% more DPS against all targets than the Roach. They should not be a total upgrade vs absolutely everything. A simple change would be to 8 + 8 armored, which would give them only around 75% as much DPS against light targets as the Roach, and would maintain their extreme effectiveness against armored targets who do not in return deal bonus damage to armored. The only changes I'd make to their ability would be to 1. increase the cooldown by a bit, and 2. make units that have taken damage from it not be able to take damage from more of their attacks for a certain length of time. This would make their attacks essentially unstackable, as are psionic storms for example, and reinforcing their role as a support unit, rather than a massable unit. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
Hydra/Lurker(corruptor) builds. http://drop.sc/390094 http://drop.sc/390095 And another FFA on that tarantula map. I think that map is a bit too big http://drop.sc/390096\ On the ravager discussion; I think they should be lair tech, possibly even upgrade at the roach warren, or morph the building like the lurker thing, although that seems a bit too harsh. After all they are essentially a seige unit like a tank, immortal, or whatever which all comes about teir 2 or greater for the other races. If that's not the design goal of them, Then keep them at t1 but change their power. As it is now, like others have mentioned they are essentially roaches with more hp, more speed, and an ability for 25/75 and 1 more supply (which is 100/100 (3) total from morph). To deal with that issue the ability either needs more drawbacks, or the unit needs to be weakened. Couple of suggestions for that. 1) Make it slower, and less hp. Maybe like speed 2, 90 hp. They regen after all. 2) Remove it's auto attack all together. 3) Make the ability cost mana (15-25) and cap their mana at 45-50. Essentially 2-3 casts max per fight. But not too susceptible to feedback. (this is more of a hard nerf for early game and a soft nerf late game) 4) Force the ravager to channel the ability longer. EG; tanks have to seige, lurkers have to burrow. To compensate for this, perhaps an obvious animation where it does a little shimmy or like half burrow, then fires instantly. This way the enemy can still see it happening and dodge, only they will have to use intuition and luck to dodge with a high percentage of success or simply pull back completely and then come back in. 5) Force the ravager to have a 'broken' cooldown immediately after casting where it can't do anything or is severely slowed. IE; it will cast it's ability as it is now, then it will have a couple seconds where it's stunned in place, or has movement speed decreased by 2 or something. 6) They have 6 range and 1.3 attack speed, compared to a roach's 4 and 2. Perhaps reducing that would be beneficial as well. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
I think the Ravager being so strong in the inital design is because of usual zerg AA being so goddamn weak. Hydras and Corruptors just don't cut it against P and T airballs. You need fungals and perfect engagements or else you'll eat shit, so Blizzard went on and made the ravagar a decent tanky AA unit to support the weak zerg AA. I'd prefer seeing the Hydra and Corruptor buffed and the Ravager being more of a "better Roach" that breaks forcefields instead of an almost completely new unit. Even though Ravagers are tanky, in most engagements against ground armies I've seen they are treated like another spellcaster due to their cost and ability, which is not what the Roach was at all. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
First it should have higher cooldown, like 15 or 20 seconds, and second it needs to deal less damage, something like 20(+20 vs. armored). The reason behind this is that Ravagers should be units that are mostly used for breaking Force Fields, Static Defense and make the engagements for opponent difficult, they shouldn't be units that just destroy everything. I like their design, but I would hate it if the game turns into mass Ravagers against everything. | ||
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FrozenProbe
Italy276 Posts
Problems with the Ravagers - They can be massed too easily, I'm terrified that you can pretty much do a "Stephano maxout build" with ravagers - There are no drawbacks on morphing every roach into a ravager, they're just better than roaches in every aspect (slightly slower and no burrow movement but come on..) - Their ability is too spammable, with no drawbacks (except amoving your entire army under your own fire) Blizzard has to address those 3 focal points, and then Ravagers will be fine maintaining their initial design purpose (Break forcefields into early-mid game and having an early game AA) | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 09 2014 18:43 KeksX wrote: Ravagers are first and foremost a solution to the forcefield issue for Zerg, so moving them to lair tech would basically get rid of most of their usefulness since on lair forcefields aren't that much of an issue anymore. Please do not start spreading your opinions on design as facts just because someone made a pretty video. Blizzard also showcased Ravagers in a bunch of non-forcefield scenarios. Please don't start creating these myths already, else: In 2015 some crybaby will write: Ravagers were never supposed to actually counter real units. It was a bandaid solution against forcefields, them being useful against other stuff just shows how broken the unit is. First it should have higher cooldown, like 15 or 20 seconds, and second it needs to deal less damage, something like 20(+20 vs. armored). The reason behind this is that Ravagers should be units that are mostly used for breaking Force Fields, Static Defense and make the engagements for opponent difficult, they shouldn't be units that just destroy everything. Not that I disagree on the sentiment, but the original blizzard corrosive bile ability showcased at blizzard looked extremely dodgeable if you remember the games. The one implemented in this Mod was terribly overpowered in comparison, both in terms of damage value and splash range. The ability might already be much closer to what you want it to be anyways. Personally I'd rather have a strong corrosive bile or even better have a corrosive bile like attack as the ravagers standard attack with an additional "attack ground" command on the unit, than having the ravager being a stronger roach with the corrosive bile on top. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
On December 09 2014 19:59 FrozenProbe wrote: Ravagers are actually totally broken, there isn't any motivation for a zerg to not just build mass ravagers in any game and destroy any composition he is facing. I understand the design of the unit and why that unit could be a great addition on the game, so I'm not worried about the current numbers, Blizzard has just to make ravagers weak in some situations. Problems with the Ravagers - They can be massed too easily, I'm terrified that you can pretty much do a "Stephano maxout build" with ravagers - There are no drawbacks on morphing every roach into a ravager, they're just better than roaches in every aspect (slightly slower and no burrow movement but come on..) - Their ability is too spammable, with no drawbacks (except amoving your entire army under your own fire) Blizzard has to address those 3 focal points, and then Ravagers will be fine maintaining their initial design purpose (Break forcefields into early-mid game and having an early game AA) Ravagers cost the same as mutas, I highly doubt you can max on them by anywhere near 12 minutes. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
Ravagers make conceptual sense as a lair unit. They have siege capability. They have overlap with roaches and should at the very least not be the same tech level. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
First it should have higher cooldown, like 15 or 20 seconds, and second it needs to deal less damage, something like 20(+20 vs. armored). The reason behind this is that Ravagers should be units that are mostly used for breaking Force Fields, Static Defense and make the engagements for opponent difficult, they shouldn't be units that just destroy everything. I want to remember you, that their aoe was seriously and drastically decreased from 1.5 to 0.5, meaning that they can kill almost 4 marines, if hit them. It's a lot harder to hit small units, especially fast ones, that are under stimpack or just moving/blinking. Also keep in mind that Ravagers can kill themselfs, if they hit melee units with corrosive biles. So we already have some unit counters: - zerglings - can dodge Corrosive Bile pretty easily - speed-roaches - dodge and regenerate if damaged - zealots - charge at ravagers, regenerate shields, pretty tanky already - marauders - enoughly tanky, can be healed, can dodge with stimpack - hercs - can grapple onto hercs. Almost like charge-zealots And Ravagers aren't that cheap. 3 supply and 100 gas early game is not so "spammable" | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On December 09 2014 20:02 Big J wrote: Please do not start spreading your opinions on design as facts just because someone made a pretty video. Blizzard also showcased Ravagers in a bunch of non-forcefield scenarios. Please don't start creating these myths already, else: Not that I disagree on the sentiment, but the original blizzard corrosive bile ability showcased at blizzard looked extremely dodgeable if you remember the games. The one implemented in this Mod was terribly overpowered in comparison, both in terms of damage value and splash range. The ability might already be much closer to what you want it to be anyways. Personally I'd rather have a strong corrosive bile or even better have a corrosive bile like attack as the ravagers standard attack with an additional "attack ground" command on the unit, than having the ravager being a stronger roach with the corrosive bile on top. Blizzard showcases a lot of stuff, mostly to show that they don't create a unit that just serves one purpose and can do nothing else because they have been critiziced for that. I also think it's an inherent fact that this only represents my views and opinions and not Blizzard's actual thoughts, however I am convinced that the Ravager's implementation is at the very least HEAVILY influenced by the decision to give Zerg an earlier ability to break forcefields. Looking back at my post, I should have worded that better though. As for the rest, I am personally not a fan of the Ravager being so strong and versatile and I'd much rather see it to just be a stronger roach. On December 09 2014 21:17 Grumbels wrote: I don't understand why a fullproof counter to forcefield should be available at hatchery tech anyway. Is that a practical decision to effectively remove forcefield from the game without formally taking the sentry out? You might as well make queens massive so that forcefields on ramps will never be a problem anymore. Ravagers make conceptual sense as a lair unit. They have siege capability. They have overlap with roaches and should at the very least not be the same tech level. No they don't overlap with the roach that much which is the funny thing, in fact Roach + Ravager is a viable unit composition on its own at an earlier stage. Not for endgame of course but it nets you a safe midgame to tech into T2+ depending on the situation. They overlap much more with banelings and lurkers imho. Why chase marines with banelings when I can just bile them everytime they run towards me? Why place lurkers in font of a base risking their death upon scan when I can just spam bile on the ramp? The fact that they are foolproof is also not true I think, every shot you have in fight that goes on a forcefield does not go on a unit ball giving Protoos room for engagement. With forcefields being such a bad, broken design it is really hard to think of a better solution. It's either forcefield off or forcefield on, not much room to play with. So giving the Zerg an opportunity to break forcefields for money essentially is a great thing. I just think the fact that they can also do massive damage if used right is too much. On December 09 2014 21:19 Existor wrote: I want to remember you, that their aoe was seriously and drastically decreased from 1.5 to 0.5, meaning that they can kill almost 4 marines, if hit them. It's a lot harder to hit small units, especially fast ones, that are under stimpack or just moving/blinking. Also keep in mind that Ravagers can kill themselfs, if they hit melee units with corrosive biles. So we already have some unit counters: - zerglings - can dodge Corrosive Bile pretty easily - speed-roaches - dodge and regenerate if damaged - zealots - charge at ravagers, regenerate shields, pretty tanky already - marauders - enoughly tanky, can be healed, can dodge with stimpack - hercs - can grapple onto hercs. Almost like charge-zealots And Ravagers aren't that cheap. 3 supply and 100 gas early game is not so "spammable" Most of these, with the exception of Herc/marauders, can be "countered" by just not morphing all of your roaches into Ravagers, no? Just let Ravagers, like spellcasters should be, stay in back and spam bile in front of your roach flock. You can either a) prevent an engagement you don't want to take or b) make significant damage to an opponent not paying enough attention And since they don't have energy, you can do that for a pretty long time. The 0.5 AoE is nice, but I think the same things can still happen, although they shouldn't be as drastic. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Most of these, with the exception of Herc/marauders, can be "countered" by just not morphing all of your roaches into Ravagers, no? Probably. But lets take a look onto air units. Void rays, banshees, mutalisks - all can counter ravagers. But I do agree about making them "Zerg Sentries" with one ability, weaken their attack and make them just mortar guys. So there will be drawback - defenceless ravagers. So you will need an army to make them viable. The fact that they are foolproof is also not true I think, every shot you have in fight that goes on a forcefield does not go on a unit ball giving Protoos room for engagement. With forcefields being such a bad, broken design it is really hard to think of a better solution. It's either forcefield off or forcefield on, not much room to play with. So giving the Zerg an opportunity to break forcefields for money essentially is a great thing. I just think the fact that they can also do massive damage if used right is too much. I love that they can counter CLUMPED air units. Before ravagers against such problem zergs had only fungal and mutalisks (sort of). | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On December 09 2014 21:17 Grumbels wrote: I don't understand why a fullproof counter to forcefield should be available at hatchery tech anyway. Is that a practical decision to effectively remove forcefield from the game without formally taking the sentry out? You might as well make queens massive so that forcefields on ramps will never be a problem anymore. Ravagers make conceptual sense as a lair unit. They have siege capability. They have overlap with roaches and should at the very least not be the same tech level. It would be very mean to call a woman "massive" though. On a more serious note... Is anyone of those defending the ravagers playing the game? I seriously doubt that. It's a mix of very good stats + bile that forces opponents to A)engage in open areas so they can move B)make the opponent's army move so you land free shots. Take also into account the mad synergy between them and infestors. Oh, you have a big air army? I don't give a duck. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On December 09 2014 23:12 Karpfen wrote: It would be very mean to call a woman "massive" though. On a more serious note... Is anyone of those defending the ravagers playing the game? I seriously doubt that. It's a mix of very good stats + bile that forces opponents to A)engage in open areas so they can move B)make the opponent's army move so you land free shots. Take also into account the mad synergy between them and infestors. Oh, you have a big air army? I don't give a duck. Yup, I'm playing it. It's far from perfect, but if you are also playing it you might have noticed that the ravager got his splash changed quite heavily already compared to the former overpowered versions. The thing is not about defending it, but which direction it should head. If they follow the "nerf corrosive, make it a better roach" direction we get just that... another roach or hydralisk type of unit with no purpose besides breaking forcefields and doing what roach and hydralisk already do... And 1year into LotV they shall all whine how bad the design of it is seriously, who shit in David Kims head to add another roach-type of unit to zerg after everyone has been telling him how boring original roaches were to begin with And the answer would be: the community who rather had a fucking awesome skillshot ability nerfed so that 90% of the units could just tank it or avoid it once and then not worry about it for another 20seconds, rather than having the unit designed around that micro interaction. I'm 100% with Existor's idea here, just make it a Mortar type of unit instead of a Roach with a sidekick Mortarability. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Take also into account the mad synergy between them and infestors. Oh, you have a big air army? I don't give a duck. There is another strong synergy: time warp with force fields with storms with colossies with disruptors. So why zergs can't have some strong combos? I really love corrosive bile ability. Maybe need different visuals, since fire-theme doesn't fits much with zergs. Would be awesome, if ravagers used banelings in same way - drop up and they landing from top to break forcefields. | ||
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ejozl
Denmark3344 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On December 10 2014 00:10 Big J wrote: I'm 100% with Existor's idea here, just make it a Mortar type of unit instead of a Roach with a sidekick Mortarability. Thats exactly what I'm talking about. The current state is not a "sidekick Mortarability" though, it's the Ravager being almost the main source of DPS or at least the main actor in an army, basically a spellcaster you build a composition around and not what you get to add into an existing composition. @Existor: I'd argue that those combos hurt the game no matter what race has them. Units should be viable in groups large and small, and in different compositions. If there's this one army composition thats beating everything else, you'll get exclusively that. | ||
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Deleted User 261926
960 Posts
On December 10 2014 00:11 Existor wrote: There is another strong synergy: time warp with force fields with storms with colossies with disruptors. So why zergs can't have some strong combos? I really love corrosive bile ability. Maybe need different visuals, since fire-theme doesn't fits much with zergs. Would be awesome, if ravagers used banelings in same way - drop up and they landing from top to break forcefields. I haven't expressed any qualitative judgements on that. It's a very cool ability and it's nice that it has such syngergy but the unit as a whole needs obviously big fixing (we are not even in alpha so they probably did something!). | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 10 2014 00:34 KeksX wrote: Thats exactly what I'm talking about. The current state is not a "sidekick Mortarability" though, it's the Ravager being almost the main source of DPS or at least the main actor in an army, basically a spellcaster you build a composition around and not what you get to add into an existing composition. @Existor: I'd argue that those combos hurt the game no matter what race has them. Units should be viable in groups large and small, and in different compositions. If there's this one army composition thats beating everything else, you'll get exclusively that. Have you played since they corrected the damage? The way it was in the original mod you are right it was broken as fuck, corrected though it doesn't seem to be anywhere as broken. Also for a 100/100 unit and 3 supply not very massable, 100 gas is a lot and adds up quickly. Does it need to be changed? Maybe, is it overpowered? Probably but I imagine the games already changed a shit ton since the blizzcon build so I wouldn't really worry about crying about the unit until Beta is closer anyway, even then you should wait until actual beta and playing the game a lot and seeing high level play before crying. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On December 10 2014 00:47 -Kyo- wrote: + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF-lKHUVIvw&list=UUgc2IhmJD1Vx-uTQB-i5bJA The disruptor reminds me a lot of the shredder, I don't know if they will make it through testing in this state. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 10 2014 01:48 Grumbels wrote: The disruptor reminds me a lot of the shredder, I don't know if they will make it through testing in this state. I think it's pretty balanced with the 30 second cool down honestly. If you miss at all they become completely useless for another 30 seconds in which if someone comes and fights you... 30 seconds is a huge timing... They might need some small tweaking, but overall I think it's actually a good step forward. I like how it forces the protoss to micro specifically them in battles and that means terran will specifically be microing their bio -> visible micro battles -> more hype. While the disruptor is charging forward it also adds an huge amount of suspense to the battle, just like a reaver shooting a scarab. I like it very much. | ||
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SoulFilcher
Brazil43 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 10 2014 02:18 SoulFilcher wrote: My small contribution to the Ravage discussion is that Corrosive Bile could have a life cost much like Stimpacks, this way spamming the ability would be a strategic decision. Blizzard added a lot of cooldown based abilities, but I think life based abilities could be fun and interesting. Then make it cost tons of life, but give ravagers burrow regeneration. Hm, that could work. Ravagers become less strong early game (since they require burrow to regenerate for more shots), but in mid and late game they can throw more corrosive biles with burrow tech. | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On December 10 2014 01:33 blade55555 wrote: Have you played since they corrected the damage? The way it was in the original mod you are right it was broken as fuck, corrected though it doesn't seem to be anywhere as broken. Also for a 100/100 unit and 3 supply not very massable, 100 gas is a lot and adds up quickly. Does it need to be changed? Maybe, is it overpowered? Probably but I imagine the games already changed a shit ton since the blizzcon build so I wouldn't really worry about crying about the unit until Beta is closer anyway, even then you should wait until actual beta and playing the game a lot and seeing high level play before crying. Gotta admit that I haven't played the new version, but I'll be sure to correct that tonight. I'm also not saying at all that the Ravager is inherently bad, I just think that the role it represented in the current games is not what I want to see for it at all! Gonna see if it might be the change that was needed for me though. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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wmb
Sweden282 Posts
On December 10 2014 03:25 IeZaeL wrote: Lets troll guys ! you still play? long time no see! | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On December 10 2014 02:08 -Kyo- wrote: I think it's pretty balanced with the 30 second cool down honestly. If you miss at all they become completely useless for another 30 seconds in which if someone comes and fights you... 30 seconds is a huge timing... They might need some small tweaking, but overall I think it's actually a good step forward. I like how it forces the protoss to micro specifically them in battles and that means terran will specifically be microing their bio -> visible micro battles -> more hype. While the disruptor is charging forward it also adds an huge amount of suspense to the battle, just like a reaver shooting a scarab. I like it very much. ya its hard to tell....then might need like a 5 second speed slowed to 2.2 or something after detonation or maybe not being invulnerable....maybe like +600 shield hp....something really high but still not invincible. It can be tweaked....The thing I like is its moving away from colossus which is boring | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 10 2014 04:23 SuperYo1000 wrote: ya its hard to tell....then might need like a 5 second speed slowed to 2.2 or something after detonation or maybe not being invulnerable....maybe like +600 shield hp....something really high but still not invincible. It can be tweaked....The thing I like is its moving away from colossus which is boring As nicely as I can ask... I am not sure if you play protoss at a like.. semi high level or not.. but I'll just go ahead and state that almost every protoss player I know absolutely hates colossus builds because THEY are boring and incredibly limiting. Not microing your colossus is boring.. sitting and building a ball for a 2 or 3 base push is boring... micro battles between players are much more entertaining both as a viewer and player as I said above. Unless for some reason you think controlling units during engagements is boring? xD haha | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
ya its hard to tell....then might need like a 5 second speed slowed to 2.2 or something after detonation or maybe not being invulnerable....maybe like +600 shield hp....something really high but still not invincible. It can be tweaked....The thing I like is its moving away from colossus which is boring I think it is okay as it is now. Disruptor can be outranged and kited by other units. Also high-armored units can survive disruptor explosions. There are plenty of ways to counter: - roaches can outrange on creep and/or if recieved some damage - regenerate - zerglings can just run away - hydralisks can be splitted, but they are supposed to be countered by disruptors, especially when colossies are nerfed (more counters to them, lower max range) - marauders & marines can go into medivac to avoid explosions - all protoss units can survive one disruptor explosion. Also force fields can still block movement of disruptors in their invincible form (at least, for now) - Prizms can evacuate units at small range - terran mech (even hellbats) can survive disruptor explosions. Also sploit more, so less units will take damage | ||
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nixi
Sweden39 Posts
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FreezingAcidRain
Canada18 Posts
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
On December 10 2014 04:33 -Kyo- wrote: As nicely as I can ask... I am not sure if you play protoss at a like.. semi high level or not.. but I'll just go ahead and state that almost every protoss player I know absolutely hates colossus builds because THEY are boring and incredibly limiting. Not microing your colossus is boring.. sitting and building a ball for a 2 or 3 base push is boring... micro battles between players are much more entertaining both as a viewer and player as I said above. Unless for some reason you think controlling units during engagements is boring? xD haha Yes, colossus is boring...I think you maybe read my post wrong because we are saying the same thing. colossus sucks | ||
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
On December 10 2014 03:25 IeZaeL wrote: Lets troll guys ! uhh ohhhhhhhhh.......look who it is | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 09 2014 18:43 KeksX wrote: Ravagers are first and foremost a solution to the forcefield issue for Zerg, so moving them to lair tech would basically get rid of most of their usefulness since on lair forcefields aren't that much of an issue anymore. I think the Ravager being so strong in the inital design is because of usual zerg AA being so goddamn weak. Hydras and Corruptors just don't cut it against P and T airballs. You need fungals and perfect engagements or else you'll eat shit, so Blizzard went on and made the ravagar a decent tanky AA unit to support the weak zerg AA. I'd prefer seeing the Hydra and Corruptor buffed and the Ravager being more of a "better Roach" that breaks forcefields instead of an almost completely new unit. Even though Ravagers are tanky, in most engagements against ground armies I've seen they are treated like another spellcaster due to their cost and ability, which is not what the Roach was at all. Actually no, protoss using FF that earlier and ravager being able to negate all that mana for free is basically counterfeiting the ability and unit all together. Especially since protoss has to invest all that gas into a shitty unit body that doesn't even compare to the ravagers body. And FF is definitely useful throughout the game, especially mid game where protoss can cut an army in half, then win the game. Or cut your defense off while they destroy your hatch and TP out. Ravager as AA is silly. First of all it's really hard to land that shit on anything, let alone air units (even with the pee line down fro the air). The only exception to this is late game with massed stacked air units coupled with fungal and tons of bile shots. As it is now, zerg has to like mass queens to deal with mass voids, which is pretty bad. So definitely a great improvement imho. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 10 2014 00:21 ejozl wrote: The combo and micro part is what's cool about the Ravager, it is a little too jack of all trades though. Right, I think Excistor missed that point when he's defending them. They are a cool unit, I like the design goals, I like the gaps they fill in Zerg's weaknesses, I like the synergy they have with other units (including in team games), I like that they can raid worker lines, I like that they require a skill shot/timing/etc stuff. The problem is just they are just too good versus everything, any composition or unit 1v1 could have a tough time fighting a ravager, even a capital ship will take a good chunk of damage or possibly even lose to a ravager. And yes, I am still referring to the smaller radius bombs they hurl. It doesn't really matter when you have 10 ravager bombs every 3 seconds. On December 10 2014 11:06 FreezingAcidRain wrote: Carrier interceptors lunch seem to follow enemy units. This seems problematic (for zerg with lost of corruption) if the carrier death ball lunches all its carriers and retreats while the enemy loses its deathball to interceptors. not a problem for stim marines, but anything else is a big lost, now that there is less mineral and gas to go around. Yea, I mentioned this the other day. They definitely follow and from what people said, they are not supposed to. I hope they are working on a fix for this. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
Remember when roaches regenerated ridiculously with the T3 upgrade? What if they made a unit that had like 20hp with super sick regen and armor so that it can't die from anything that does under 20 damage at once? PS- Idgaf about archonmode, seriously what is the appeal of that? we already have macro/micro maps and play obs maps etc. It's not a big deal nor is it that fun anyway. I would like to talk about other units besides the ravager though, as almost everything is pretty broken, just that the ravager is the easiest unit to get to, people notice it the most. ===== Corruptors. Basically like the old void rays, only they move faster, cost way less, less supply, regenerate, can be transfused, can morph into broods, etc. Rushing muta is basically counterfeited by rushing them now. You can go a standard 2 hatch spire > corruptors instead of muta and its way stronger. They have way better range, can snipe mothership cores and deal with other air units way better, aren't scared of towers, rape bldgs, etc. ===== Tempest. Sick fast move speed, sick range, cheap ass yamato like ability (that comes for free) only it kills over time instead of immediately, but it does twice? as much damage. So you can rush this unit, and harass with it, disintegrate key structures and towers that would try to deal with your air. Queens, spores, turrets, vikings, all get D'd and then you run away or move/shoot harass with your 2.75 move speed and 15 range and 450 life. Standard build is to FE, rush an oracle to harass, start rallying tempest. GG ==== Disruptors. These feel kinda meh. I mean they can be sick good, and fun to use, but they just seem like kind of a crappy design. It's 100/300 to build which is a massive investment for something so fragile and risky. Like even if you do rush and drop 2 on their economy to kill ALL of their workers, you lose so much that it almost doesn't seem like you came out ahead if at all. And in a battle, they are kind of like reavers that can only shoot once every 30 seconds and cost a ton more. The unit is just so plain and boring compared to everything else. Also it is too much overlap with other stuff. Storm, collosus. Protoss doesn't NEED more aoe really. The unit is also a bit weird in the fact that it looks like an air unit, and is somewhat large, but it's a ground unit that can flow through other ground units (even enemy ones), and then it goes real fast, then blows it's load, and moves real slow again. The unit just seems too clunky and weird for a design standpoint, and especially coming from a super intelligent race such as the protoss. Honestly just feels like blizzard is trying to make something work for this model they designed back in WOL alpha that they tried to use as the trilobite, then the sentry, then the replicant, and that AA thing, etc. I mean it's ok to scrap a unit model completely guys. You don't HAVE to force something to work just because you have it or spent time on it. It's like ending a bad relationship with a job or gf, you don't try to make something work because you put in the effort, you view it as a waste of your time and try to forget it asap. ==== The oracle stasis ward thing looks dumb. I hope they change the animation and all that. Imho just make it almost exactly like the stasis for the arbiter in BW. Crystal everything affected. And I have a sneaking suspicion that this ability is broken at this point in the game. You could open oracles to harass and safely defend infinite waves of attacks by buying time indefinitely for your larger splash units and tech or a nexus canon, etc. etc. I'm talking about like opening FE>2 stargate>mass oracles would be viable and possibly unstoppable. Btw, the stasis doesn't work on air right? Maybe it might be better if it ONLY worked on air. Since now there is no nexus canon and early/mid game air rushes might be a bit more problematic for protoss again. It might be a decent idea to have it be able to freeze clumps of corruptors/mutas/banshees/drops so you can get stuff around/under it or get a storm/Feedback ready, etc. (do units regen life/mana in stasis like in bw? Even while cloaked? Does it hit burrowed units? Do burrow roaches regen fast?) | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On December 10 2014 14:35 MarlieChurphy wrote: Actually no, protoss using FF that earlier and ravager being able to negate all that mana for free is basically counterfeiting the ability and unit all together. Especially since protoss has to invest all that gas into a shitty unit body that doesn't even compare to the ravagers body. And FF is definitely useful throughout the game, especially mid game where protoss can cut an army in half, then win the game. Or cut your defense off while they destroy your hatch and TP out. Ravager as AA is silly. First of all it's really hard to land that shit on anything, let alone air units (even with the pee line down fro the air). The only exception to this is late game with massed stacked air units coupled with fungal and tons of bile shots. As it is now, zerg has to like mass queens to deal with mass voids, which is pretty bad. So definitely a great improvement imho. Well but thats the problem about forcefields: Everything that does not completely destroy does not counter it. Thats what meant when I said "it's an off/on ability". Could you think of a counter to forcefields that does not completely negate them? Also yeah, Forcefields are usfeul throughout the game, but the longer the game goes on, the less effeciency they actually have. Simplest example are the massive T3 units. The last part I don't understand, first you say that AA except for lategame then you go about mass queens which are obviously not lategame? I think Ravager AA is better than you want to admit. Also, I played the new version yesterday. It's probably because my opponents were just diamond and up, but I stilll melted whole army flocks with Ravager's bile. The opportunity is still definitel ythere! On December 10 2014 03:05 Existor wrote: We're proud to release Archon Mode as small extension of LotV Custom. 1st post was also updated with all the information about new game mode This is awesome! | ||
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FrozenProbe
Italy276 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Right, I think Excistor missed that point when he's defending them. Aw :\ I'm not defending Ravagers. I don't like them as fire-unit, I don't like that they have no building. It shows that blizzards are lazy sometimes. Those units need some fixes, maybe they should cost 125 gas (overal with roach), or they should have no basic attack. Anyway, blizzard can do any exotic change to them, and explain it with their reasons (i.e. ravagers are too strong vs air -> nerf corrosive bile from 60 to 30 damage for example), making unit useless in other ways and leaving it as only FF counter. Those are just examples. I hope they make something cool with ravager and keep this unit at tier1. Remember Overlord creep spread after evolution chamber is done? It was very cool, a zergy way to do something similar with photon rush and bunker rush. Why it can't be nerfed, like less creep spreading or make it as upgrade? Nope, they just hiddenly nerfed it back to lair, leaving zergs with mostly mid and late game tools. | ||
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ETisME
12355 Posts
Invulnerability with speed bonus is crazy, hardly any ground unit can over run them. To drop colossus, blizzard needs to give a good reliable consistent aoe unit that hopefully would also be micro intensive. Disruptor isn't the one with the cool down and it makes blizzard has less room to design a aoe unit ground up to avoid overlap | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
Also, on that note, I made another video from the Legacy of the Void custom map this time with coL.Midday. You guys can check it out here: Hope you enjoy~ I'll probably be making more, but it's really hard to get people to custom game with this season... Literally no one is actively on and even though I'd love to play a ton of PvT there are barely any on.. and those who are on do not want to play >.> I'll see what I can do | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
Didn't Blizz devs said that they were giving it 2.75 speed and 7 range?. It would be awesome to still have the tempest siege function, maybe with 11/13 range instead of 15 to be fair with tanks and maybe with air attack still a little damage reduction could also be applyed. BTW, Desintegration ability is pretty boring. Is "Kill for free" big units, still hardcountering lategame units pretty badly and with quite low tactical thinking needed. It emulates the old Irradiation spell from broodwar in TvZ, but without costs. I don't see it fair. I would prefer it to deal low damage overtime + applying some debuff, like an armor reduction to incentivate mixed skirmish play over "lucky shot" play. It could synergize well with carriers at very high cost and be an interesting support instead of a killer by itself. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Didn't Blizz devs said that they were giving it 2.75 speed and 7 range?. They still have old air-to-ground weapon range. 7 range is only for ability, which was clearly short range in trailer. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 10 2014 23:57 JCoto wrote: I think that Tempest values are incorrect in the Mod. Didn't Blizz devs said that they were giving it 2.75 speed and 7 range?. It would be awesome to still have the tempest siege function, maybe with 11/13 range instead of 15 to be fair with tanks and maybe with air attack still a little damage reduction could also be applyed. BTW, Desintegration ability is pretty boring. Is "Kill for free" big units, still hardcountering lategame units pretty badly and with quite low tactical thinking needed. It emulates the old Irradiation spell from broodwar in TvZ, but without costs. I don't see it fair. I would prefer it to deal low damage overtime + applying some debuff, like an armor reduction to incentivate mixed skirmish play over "lucky shot" play. It could synergize well with carriers at very high cost and be an interesting support instead of a killer by itself. it's more like if irradiate did 500 damage and vs buildings or units, and didn't need biological target either. ANNNNND doesn't cost mana or require an upgrade. Shit's as broken as it gets. So what can we say about nerfing this instead of bitching though? First of all, nerf the speed and range of the tempest. Give it equal tank range and make it's vision like the tank as well. Take the speed down to like 2, or 2.25 MAX. These bitches are way too fast for having that much HP and being a capital ship. It doesn't even look right. It looks silly when they swoop around all quick. (although they are fun as fuck to micro like that). It can be compared a lot to the Broodlord as well as far as tech tree, cost, etc. It's like a mechabroodlord. As far as the ability, require an upgrade at the fleet beacon. 150/150 - 200/200 or something like that. a tempest cost 200/300 iirc. Make the tempest have a mana pool. 200 max, 125 to cast it imo. I think that might be perfect as far as balance could ever be with this thing. Some might argue that the ability still does too much damage, or has too many possible targets. Well then perhaps only allow it to hit massive targets, or perhaps do not allow it to hit structures and non psionic units maybe (because queens). Or reduce the damage (175?) it has a more specific role of targets it's used for. Yea, I think 175 is the best one there. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On December 10 2014 02:08 -Kyo- wrote: I think it's pretty balanced with the 30 second cool down honestly. If you miss at all they become completely useless for another 30 seconds in which if someone comes and fights you... 30 seconds is a huge timing... They might need some small tweaking, but overall I think it's actually a good step forward. I like how it forces the protoss to micro specifically them in battles and that means terran will specifically be microing their bio -> visible micro battles -> more hype. While the disruptor is charging forward it also adds an huge amount of suspense to the battle, just like a reaver shooting a scarab. I like it very much. I don't know if they're overpowered (they can be balanced by cost) but they seem a bit punishing versus bad players, which Blizzard apparently doesn't like. They're not that difficult to use: you take three disruptors, activate charge, right click on your opponent's army, and then his army is gone. There isn't that much counterplay: you can't kill the disruptors and you can't run away. You can split, but that's more difficult to execute. And yes, it did cost you 900 gas, but those costs aren't as relevant for low level players. I see potential for the unit to be either useless or broken at various levels of play. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 11 2014 02:40 MarlieChurphy wrote: it's more like if irradiate did 500 damage and vs buildings or units, and didn't need biological target either. ANNNNND doesn't cost mana or require an upgrade. Shit's as broken as it gets. So what can we say about nerfing this instead of bitching though? First of all, nerf the speed and range of the tempest. Give it equal tank range and make it's vision like the tank as well. Take the speed down to like 2, or 2.25 MAX. These bitches are way too fast for having that much HP and being a capital ship. It doesn't even look right. It looks silly when they swoop around all quick. (although they are fun as fuck to micro like that). It can be compared a lot to the Broodlord as well as far as tech tree, cost, etc. It's like a mechabroodlord. As far as the ability, require an upgrade at the fleet beacon. 150/150 - 200/200 or something like that. a tempest cost 200/300 iirc. Make the tempest have a mana pool. 200 max, 125 to cast it imo. I think that might be perfect as far as balance could ever be with this thing. Some might argue that the ability still does too much damage, or has too many possible targets. Well then perhaps only allow it to hit massive targets, or perhaps do not allow it to hit structures and non psionic units maybe (because queens). Or reduce the damage (175?) it has a more specific role of targets it's used for. Yea, I think 175 is the best one there. Well, what you've saying is to make it overcomplex and nerfed in many ways. The tempest is already very epensive for its use, if you make it that way it will become a latelatelate game unit with obvious counters (Raven, Corruptor, Fungal, Marines, EMP, Feedback...) I feel that the tempest is in the exactly same spot as the ravager. Not bad unit, covering some empty spots in the needs of the race, but getting a really OP ability/spell. Well, if the problem is not the unit, maybe we should focus on adequating the ability. Corrosive bile is too OP? nerf damage and splash, maybe make ravager a low energy pool unit, like medics in BW. They are early in the tech tree, so energy/spell countering is hard but can be used in mid-late game, which is not a bad idea to diversify compositions. Tempest ability is too destructive because gives free picks? Lower the damage a lot, diversify uses. After thinking it for a while, acting like the Corruption ability or applying an armor penalty debuff is fairly more tactical than a big snipe shot. If you want it to siege buildings, give it bonus damage vs it. It's not that difficult to fit a unit in their intended role. The tempest ability is gonna dictate if we have it as an AG unit only or AA too again, which wouldn't be bad. Range should change if we want to change interactions with other units and some counter mechaincs. LotV is aiming to introduce micro and fancy abilities and uses, but in some cases aren't reviewing many unit interactions. And then tempest will counter tanks and thors even harder, protoss sentries will be hardcountered by ravagers and Hercs (because they weren't fragile enough), the terran biodrops would be even stronger in PvZ (warp-in nerf, marauder damage still wasting structures, even stronger banshee openers... Also things start overlapping, like Hellbat/Widowmine/Herc, New Swarmhost/Broodlord, Broodlord/new corruptor (because of damage) Colossus/Disruptor, somewhat VoidRay/Tempest......It's funny to observe that Lurkers and banes aren't overlapping but complementing quite decently (one sieges and defends and zones, the other one raids and flanks). Herc damage + splash is not really needed. Maybe a multishot/piercing shot with lowered damage(damaging alimited number of enemies in line)or something that blocks the movement (damaging alimited number of enemies in line) would be more interesting. Broodlord stats, (speed, armor, range) may need a tweak, and maybe even a soft air attack, if we don't want it to disappear into oblivion. And they are for exemple forgetting the muta problem in ZvZ, which could be even worse with frenzy, (hell Zerg needs a new air unit or some love to Infestor/ new corruptor AA mechanic) They should have a big coffee at Blizz headquarters and start making the game not only more complex but also more flexible. Protoss would still benefit from a new gateway unit, mobile, light (to be countered by banes/hellions) with decent AA or even AA mainly. Also a brained rework for Nexus, MSC and Warpgate. Lots of things pending. | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
It feels like people mostly lose because they run out of money, never because they are actually broken offensively and their main areas come under siege. When I'm not a spectator that sees the income, the ggs often feel very random. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
On December 11 2014 11:03 Big J wrote: Straight up 6 mineral patches with 1500 would be better. More reason to expand, slower mining out. But it's up to Blizz.I really dislike the 1000k mineral change currently. It feels like people mostly lose because they run out of money, never because they are actually broken offensively and their main areas come under siege. When I'm not a spectator that sees the income, the ggs often feel very random. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 11 2014 11:03 Big J wrote: I really dislike the 1000k mineral change currently. It feels like people mostly lose because they run out of money, never because they are actually broken offensively and their main areas come under siege. When I'm not a spectator that sees the income, the ggs often feel very random. Just need to adopt to new economy. Expand earlier and be more active | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 11 2014 11:03 Big J wrote: I really dislike the 1000k mineral change currently. It feels like people mostly lose because they run out of money, never because they are actually broken offensively and their main areas come under siege. When I'm not a spectator that sees the income, the ggs often feel very random. Imo it's a great change, but the maps need to change now to. Bigger maps with more expansions are going to be needed, which hopefully blizzard does | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 11 2014 12:23 blade55555 wrote: Imo it's a great change, but the maps need to change now to. Bigger maps with more expansions are going to be needed, which hopefully blizzard does That's also an issue. I've played a number of FFAs with an overabundance of bases. In that instance, it feels like there are too many bases and you are spread too thin with slower units/tech/races. Imho, the base change feels like the right track. Makes me feel like I'm playing BW again, although they need to make some tweaks to it. The bases should have the same minerals, but mine it out faster. Either that, or just reduce the cost of everything by a percentage (which would be harder and silly). I was suggesting that standard bases have gold patches mixed in with the blue, and then have more minerals so they mine evenly. which is also kind of silly but effective. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/470856-lotv-economy-discussion?page=31#602 | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Custom announcer voice problem solved also. In Archon Mode YOU will be a race announcer. "Expand here!" "Build workers!" "Save those Vikings!" "Micro medivacs!" | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
I have my zerg units to burrow with U like they are supposed to be, but stupid sc2 default is R. So this is a problem with ravagers and lurkers. | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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Uvantak
Uruguay1381 Posts
On December 13 2014 00:51 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote: yeap, same way you change hotkeys normally. just go to the hotkeys menu while ingame It should be noted that you can also change the LotV hotkeys after having played too, the Hotkey menú is bugged in the sense that when you play X game mode you will not be able to edit the hotkeys before, only meanwhile you are ingame and after having played the game. | ||
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swissman777
1106 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
edit- I can't believe the following post dignified that with a legitimate response. | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On December 13 2014 02:11 swissman777 wrote: What's the point of the protoss' new unit? It seems like it's quite useless against mech (especially when tanks are well spread) and effective against bio, but so are the colossi. The new unit was supposed to only take a part of a colossus' role while the colossus is weakened so the colossus won't be an all around unit. However, it looks like the new unit does the same thing as a colossus plus worker harassment. Yes, it does the same thing as Colossus but it is more micro intensive and has a higher cost, better at harassment and can do more damage than Colossus when properly controlled, which just means that it doesn't do the same thing as Colossus... There will be a ton of changes in the beta, but if nothing changes, Tempests are even better against Mech now when they are a lot faster and have Disintegrate, Carriers are greatly buffed and Immortal shields are weaker against just Tanks but still can soak up quite a bit of damage when activated at the right time, and not just against Tanks but against everything else as well. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 13 2014 02:11 swissman777 wrote: What's the point of the protoss' new unit? It seems like it's quite useless against mech (especially when tanks are well spread) and effective against bio, but so are the colossi. The new unit was supposed to only take a part of a colossus' role while the colossus is weakened so the colossus won't be an all around unit. However, it looks like the new unit does the same thing as a colossus plus worker harassment. Well, that is partly true, they overlap a bit, but in the same way as Herc and Hellbat: completely different micro and uses, oriented towards the same effect. We'll need to wait for beta testing and changes to state that they truly overlap. I feel that then can still achieve a differentiation in the roles of the Colossus and the disruptor. The colossus could be reworked with same range, more speed and higher cooldown, being a walking siege unit that can abuse terrain with lower damage efficiency, while the disruptor can take the role of main AoE killer/antiballs with huge damage potential. I see that it could be problematic in PvP, but tempests would be a reliable counter against them, and with lowered damage efficiency they could be far less intimidating. That could make the colossus play more micro friendly and less deathball oriented. I thhink that nerfing its range by one is not gonna change interactions at all, simply being more easy to counter because of the range advantage of Vipers and Vikings. It's a basic nerf, not a rework. Preliminar LotV changes aren't showing a deep logic by now. They can make units very interesting changing very few values without them feeling really different in essence. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On December 11 2014 10:59 JCoto wrote: Broodlord stats, (speed, armor, range) may need a tweak, and maybe even a soft air attack, if we don't want it to disappear into oblivion. I'd like to see them fire 3 Broodlings at once with the first shot, but have a recharge rate even slower than what they currently have, so that they'd have to stall for a bit before regaining full attack strength. This would encourage poking and prodding with BLs more, and discourage sitting in one ball, trying to brute force through a direct engagement. It would be cool if they moved quicker with fewer Broodlings as well, so it would make that type of micro more rewarding, but not make it too easy to just zoom them across the map. | ||
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digmouse
China6328 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
We need more people posting videos of GGs in LOTV! https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lotv alpha | ||
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TeSLLive2
United States35 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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polpot
3002 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On December 14 2014 01:56 MarlieChurphy wrote: We need more people posting videos of GGs in LOTV! https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=lotv alpha That ZvT was sick! So so so fucking sick, finally seeing something outside of Muta, Ling, Bane or massing Ravagers... Of course, it is not the highest level of play, but it is pretty damn good. Mobility of Lurkers and Lings, together with Infestors they are really hard to deal with in straight engagements. He needed Mutas for the drops and pros will definitely still build Mutas in ZvT, but damn I love it! And those Nyduses everywhere were amazing. We definitely need more games like this one. :D | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 14 2014 08:01 blade55555 wrote: Wish some casters would cast some high level play of this. So far all the games look fun and that's always a good thing Husky has been casting quite a few of QXCs games. Check them out if you haven't some are pretty cool. On December 14 2014 08:01 SuperYo1000 wrote: uhhh....i thought the disrupter ability had a 30 second cooldown....the videos above they had like a 5 second cooldown...Is it really that short? It was 10 seconds in a prior patch. It is now 30 seconds. | ||
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anfree
Taiwan5 Posts
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/syfgamingtv | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On December 14 2014 19:03 IeZaeL wrote: Seems like there's a LotV tournament going on. Too bad they use standard maps. http://www.twitch.tv/syfgamingtv It doesn't matter! I mean, your maps are awesome and probably better than standards but hey we got a tournament! :D | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 14 2014 06:48 Ramiz1989 wrote: That ZvT was sick! So so so fucking sick, finally seeing something outside of Muta, Ling, Bane or massing Ravagers... Of course, it is not the highest level of play, but it is pretty damn good. Mobility of Lurkers and Lings, together with Infestors they are really hard to deal with in straight engagements. He needed Mutas for the drops and pros will definitely still build Mutas in ZvT, but damn I love it! And those Nyduses everywhere were amazing. We definitely need more games like this one. :D Imho, not that sick. The guy had pretty bad lurker control, and his flank nydus only unloaded like 2 units lol | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 14 2014 07:47 -Kyo- wrote: I'd be posting a ton but no top 100 GM NA Ts want to custom game T_T;; I think most of the top 100 Z players are really BM or idk them so I haven't really tried contacting any of them... xD I used to be a top player back in beta and the early part of WOL. you can msg me if im on. ill send u my email | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On December 15 2014 01:34 MarlieChurphy wrote: Imho, not that sick. The guy had pretty bad lurker control, and his flank nydus only unloaded like 2 units lol You are nitpicking, no he isn't the best player in the world, but he is showing something new that isn't mass Ravagers like everybody has been doing... and imo the game was pretty decent for non-pro level. His Lurker control probably wasn't the best as people aren't used to controlling Lurkers in SC2. Nydus flank had 4 Lurkers, sure could have been a lot better, but still did its job. I just liked the game a lot, it reminded me of Brood War with a lot of small attacks all over the map, Lurkers for zone control etc. I expect even better games from Korean pros in the beta(or even with this mod) but so far this is better than nothing. Also, Husky did another LotV custom game between Zanster and QXC. | ||
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404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
On December 15 2014 02:26 Ramiz1989 wrote: You are nitpicking, no he isn't the best player in the world, but he is showing something new that isn't mass Ravagers like everybody has been doing... and imo the game was pretty decent for non-pro level. His Lurker control probably wasn't the best as people aren't used to controlling Lurkers in SC2. Nydus flank had 4 Lurkers, sure could have been a lot better, but still did its job. I just liked the game a lot, it reminded me of Brood War with a lot of small attacks all over the map, Lurkers for zone control etc. I expect even better games from Korean pros in the beta(or even with this mod) but so far this is better than nothing. Also, Husky did another LotV custom game between Zanster and QXC. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uGPz4RFWWw Zanster is pretty bad at lurker positioning. He is always moving them in a big clump and not leaving them at key locations, burrowing them too far away so that over half doesnt even shoot.... . I guess people will get better with them as time progresses. | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NJGAPEF.png) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dGEH3Zk.png) | ||
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On December 15 2014 04:06 404AlphaSquad wrote: Zanster is pretty bad at lurker positioning. He is always moving them in a big clump and not leaving them at key locations, burrowing them too far away so that over half doesnt even shoot.... . I guess people will get better with them as time progresses. Yeah I agree. I posted that game before finishing it though. | ||
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SuperYo1000
United States880 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 15 2014 05:47 SuperYo1000 wrote: anyone have a pvt video showcasing early cyclone pressure? I just am having a lot of problems not getting completely wrecked by this. I am looking for help to deal with them They're incredibly easy to deal with until mid-late game imo... just make 2 stalkers and nexus cannon until u get other units/counter attack o.o.. This is why I meant in my videos I think people are really over-reacting to a lot of things. Cyclone definitely needs to be adjusted but it's not nearly as bad as people made it out to be imo. If I can get any videos specifically on that soon I'll be sure to post. I'm still looking for people ;~; | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
On December 15 2014 14:30 TedCruz2016 wrote: Wow, disrupter seems like a really deadly weapon despite of all the criticisms of its poor design. In the first video, almost an entire army of hydra/lurker/roach/ravager is slaughtered by just two disruptors. Imagine how threatening they are to stimmed marines and marauders. The problem seems to be that they almost always die immediately after getting the shot off, and 300 gas is a huge loss there. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 15 2014 14:34 -NegativeZero- wrote: The problem seems to be that they almost always die immediately after getting the shot off, and 300 gas is a huge loss there. Not if you use warp prisms. So far seen some unique play using the warp prisms smartly so they don't die. Though their cool down seems way too short (imo). In general also that player had terrible splitting versus the disruptors, like wow xd. | ||
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TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Though their cool down seems way too short (imo). In general also that player had terrible splitting versus the disruptors, like wow xd. That was version 1.2. Right now Lotv custom is 1.3 with 30 second coldown on Disruptors How close are you guys with Blizzard btw? I read somewhere that internally the game is already very different(think it was David Kim's update), any chance you guys get your hands on those? As much, as possible. Right now no new data/info about Blizzard's internal build. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 15 2014 18:01 KeksX wrote: How close are you guys with Blizzard btw? I read somewhere that internally the game is already very different(think it was David Kim's update), any chance you guys get your hands on those? I hope they keep a lot of the things and a lot of ideas tested during the developement process for the beta, so we can have a lot of diversity. Some of the new concepts are quite cool, different, micro friendly, funky, and creative. I specially like the Zerg part (even if I play Protoss) because they add progression value, balance aside. An expensive mutation for the roach is worthy and yeah, Lurkers (A-move prevention). Also Herc's grapple is quite interesting as a "blocker", and Disruptor is very interesting from the micro part, even if it somewhat overlaps with HT storms and Colossi. But that can be redone with a new spell to complete the HT and reworking a bit the colossus as a proper Siege unit with a huge positional interest and sustain, more than damage dealer or heavy splash. I hope they throw out some of the "minor reworks" that are mostly balance changes. Increasing +1 armor or changing damage a bit is not a real rework, is a balance update. While the game needs still some balance, it needs more than simply that. And LotV, given Blizzard's marketing and project design minds, is "the last opportunity" to introduce serious balance changes that could have been already tested and maybe implemented. I hope they get on the work with design design design and unit interactions and engine coding (unit control) and they leave the balance updates they call "minor reworks" for the end of the beta, just as an icing for the cake. | ||
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Basic
Canada288 Posts
I am enjoying my self endlessly watching casters, streamers and pros play around with this. Sure there will be plenty change by Beta, but in the mean time this at least gives us a way to start thinking about the impact of potential changes. You guys are are just plain awesome! | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
Same exact cooldown , speed, invuln, and damage, just instead of activate and gets 3 second of speed and invuln before 1 big explode. It would do 1 sec of speed and invuln, explode for 1/3 damage, .5 second normal, 1 sec of speed and invuln, explode for 1/3 damage, .5 second normal, 1 sec of speed and invuln, explode for 1/3 damage. So it sort of stutter steps and explodes as it does it. This is a soft nerf to the burst damage so that units can be microed a bit more safely/reliably. Not sure exactly how much the total damage is, but obviously it could be reworked so that it can kill certain units with the first hit, etc. (such as workers) | ||
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TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 17 2014 11:37 TedCruz2016 wrote: What's OP in the second video is not ravager, but corruptor. The channelling anti-building skill has to go. It's too unfair to vikings and phoenixes. That corruptor ability works only on ground units and buildings. Corruptors are still weak to mass-anti air (marines, seeker missiles, vikings, cyclones / void rays, stalkers, archons) But I agree, that ability doesnt fits with corruptor at all. or they will add something like longer time before it starts to deal huge amount of damage. Something like old void rays with 3 stages of charging | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On December 17 2014 12:02 Existor wrote: That corruptor ability works only on ground units and buildings. Corruptors are still weak to mass-anti air (marines, seeker missiles, vikings, cyclones / void rays, stalkers, archons) But I agree, that ability doesnt fits with corruptor at all. or they will add something like longer time before it starts to deal huge amount of damage. Something like old void rays with 3 stages of charging The corruptor AG ability is not a bad concept, but overlaps with the broodlord a lot, specially with 8 range (more than AA turrets). It's not a bad idea, but I would like see it as a not abusable ability. Something that can take a cannon for a corruptor, for exemple. 10 corruptors can destroy too much with some seconds, and are quite fast and cheap (compared to Void rays). Yeah, it could stay, but being only a supportive damage. The Corruptor should have something with small AoE effect. A cripple with either slow/venom/healing or regeneration denial would work better with the unit, making it AA with supporting abilities, just like phoenix do. It would be very logical with the unit. Still being extra damage or something that "corrupts" (applies a debuff). Useful against clumped air units (mutas, phoenix, VR) and small ground units (Bio) In the damage part, the corruptor was very low because it applied a +20% damage on units. It's a unit that is not really strong on its own, it's like an air stalker, probably in a close line of damage for cost. But phoenix are also quite low on damage, too, being weak against armored air (almost all air units), and they have a good utility. They could adjust it by simply giving it +1 damage and thus, +2 damage per upgrade (adjusted scalation) to compensate for the corruption loss. But the potential use of fungal + corruptor is what makes it very strong. Being bulky but quite low on damage makes it quite okay. I think that damage is not a real problem. Some support mechanic is what it needs. I feel that they are quite okay in ZvP, where micro is the key, but fail a bit in ZvZ against mutas (something that shouldn't happen) and in ZvT against almost anything because of marines. Also Great Spire should be more accessible. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
So considering you guys were holding firm on the position of only having the mod be as exacting as the build at blizzcon. What are you going to do about this? Are you going to finally try and patch more of what you can from this update? Are you going to make a separate mod where you try and balance amongst your own team/players? Dilemma. | ||
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purakushi
United States3300 Posts
On December 18 2014 08:39 MarlieChurphy wrote: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/17222794 So considering you guys were holding firm on the position of only having the mod be as exacting as the build at blizzcon. What are you going to do about this? Are you going to finally try and patch more of what you can from this update? Are you going to make a separate mod where you try and balance amongst your own team/players? Dilemma. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2plmcr/lotv_multiplayer_dev_update/cmxu1eu | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 18 2014 09:05 purakushi wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/2plmcr/lotv_multiplayer_dev_update/cmxu1eu yea, seems obvious that would be there stance. However I do wonder why they were so opposed to my suggestion of cloning the mod, calling it something else, and trying to balance it how they could. I mean that would help blizzard indirectly, as well as be fun to play. Where as the mod is just novel and obviously imbalanced as fuck with no plans to change anything unless blizzard decides to give some vague snippets again. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
Still impossible to find people to play this with. I've added literally half of the GM list on NA and none of them want to play. Suppose they'd either play vs hackers on ladder or boost said hackers accounts. Sad some people are getting boosted and then brag about getting higher ranked. zzzzz #NorthAmerica | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On December 18 2014 23:42 Existor wrote: New patch 1.4 is out. It's very small and can be considered as hotfix + Show Spoiler + Does this mean I can't kill four insane AIs with the ravager abilities, or will they still not dodge? | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 18 2014 16:19 -Kyo- wrote: New LotV video between me and sonic here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2-MuyACRAU Still impossible to find people to play this with. I've added literally half of the GM list on NA and none of them want to play. Suppose they'd either play vs hackers on ladder or boost said hackers accounts. Sad some people are getting boosted and then brag about getting higher ranked. zzzzz #NorthAmerica Watching now, First off, you should have looped your probe back out and around towards his 3rd. In order to rescout the production of the barracks, could have changed your build order and cut you some corners noticing it was a sort of faked rush. I agree with the 1 base early rushing stuff. It's completely removed from the game, and that imho is a really bad thing. I've even straight out 12 pool speedlinged a protoss who did a FE build, killed like half of his workers, delayed mining etc. He still got oracle then tempests out and just harassed me to death. When he spoted, the warp in after the first drop, you should have just unloaded and exploded his men lol. Or is the cooldown longer now? As far as cyclone, I think this unit is pretty weak and uninteresting overall. Also seems like it doesn't really have a specific role anywhere. Agree with the medivac tank vs zerg, not utilized enough. Very very strong. Probably the best thing terran got all together. It's effectively like a reaver drop in bw that doesn't cost resources, and does a little less damage per shot, but has way more range and no regen and does minor friendly fire. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
14 overlord, 14 drone, 14 extractor, 14 drone 14 extractor trick (2nd gas) 15 drone 17? pool asap. (start when put 3 drones on gas/extractor finishes) pump drones (3 more) 19? lair asap. 19? expand to nat when excess 225+ pump drones (3 more) 21? 2nd extractor, pump drones (2 more) 22? Overlord 23? Spire or Hydra den>Lurker den pump drones (5 more) 24-26? make queens x2 21? 3rd extractor split drone count between the bases. (8 minerals each) Upgrade ling speed asap. Upgrade lord speed/make overseer to scout their base better. Save corruption to slow a tech or unit. Make sure you have enough overlords to support 5-6 corruptors/hydras>lurkers (same min/gas/supply cost for each iirc) This gives most options as far as tech route/harass and you can continue to pump drones and take a 3rd base while harassing. What I've been trying is spire, and make several corruptors, and getting ling speed next. Might need to make some adjustments with specific defensive timings/exploits on the build but haven't ran into those yet. Corruptors are pretty beefy as far as defense as well as harass. Takes 7 corruptors to 1 shot a worker, but 8 for an scv. Their 'attack speed' seems pretty fast though, so it's not that difficult to snipe workers if you have less. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 19 2014 05:57 MarlieChurphy wrote: When he spoted, the warp in after the first drop, you should have just unloaded and exploded his men lol. Or is the cooldown longer now? As I showed when I did actually unload it, and mentioned in the video, good terran players will split just like they do in TvZ vs disruptors. It's really only good to try to harass with until you have a few and can engage larger armies. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 19 2014 07:21 -Kyo- wrote: As I showed when I did actually unload it, and mentioned in the video, good terran players will split just like they do in TvZ vs disruptors. It's really only good to try to harass with until you have a few and can engage larger armies. yea but at that point it was like 6 marines and a maruder or something wasnt it? You could have got away with prism and disruptor still. Maybe not worth the micro investment, but better than what you ended up doing with it shortly there after. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
Needs to be much more audible like a dt, or a banshee shot, or a tank etc. For ref here is some of their sound effects in bw | ||
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Alex007
Ukraine211 Posts
ESL, Razer, Sc2TV.RU and Clever.Press prepared a small exhibition tournament called Clever.LOTV with 15000 Russian Rubles (~$250) prize pool & 3 Razer device sets in addition. It will include the Community Bracket on Saturday (with ML competitors from the list of casters and ex-pros fighting for devices) and the Pro Bracket on Sunday with  Kas,  sLivko,  Fraer and Minato fighting for the prize pool.Games will be played on LOTV Custom Maps in Arcade, all in best of 3 format in a double elimination bracket. Join us at http://twitch.tv/esl_cis on Saturday, Dec 20 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) and Sunday, Dec 21 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) to see how LOTV Custom looks like in our region Huge thanks to all of the map developers and special thanks to Existor for assistance <3 | ||
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[ReCoN]Malacath
France4 Posts
On December 20 2014 04:43 Alex007 wrote: Greetings to all LOTV Custom players. ESL, Razer, Sc2TV.RU and Clever.Press prepared a small exhibition tournament called Clever.LOTV with 15000 Russian Rubles (~$250) prize pool & 3 Razer device sets in addition. It will include the Community Bracket on Saturday (with ML competitors from the list of casters and ex-pros fighting for devices) and the Pro Bracket on Sunday with Kas, sLivko, Fraer and Minato fighting for the prize pool.Games will be played on LOTV Custom Maps in Arcade, all in best of 3 format in a double elimination bracket. Join us at http://twitch.tv/esl_cis on Saturday, Dec 20 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) and Sunday, Dec 21 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) to see how LOTV Custom looks like in our region Huge thanks to all of the map developers and special thanks to Existor for assistance <3 God... How can we have faith in humanity when money is given to players for playing on a fanmade version of a pre-alpha build of an upcoming extenison which is completely unbalanced ? | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 20 2014 05:47 [ReCoN]Malacath wrote: God... How can we have faith in humanity when money is given to players for playing on a fanmade version of a pre-alpha build of an upcoming extenison which is completely unbalanced ? There were tournaments on Starbow. Was it ideally balanced? I'm not sure. But it was clearly fun and interesting to watch, far more interesting than standard tournaments with ladder-like repititive games where you see same thing and same stuff every match. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2626 Posts
On December 20 2014 06:34 Existor wrote: There were tournaments on Starbow. Was it ideally balanced? I'm not sure. But it was clearly fun and interesting to watch, far more interesting than standard tournaments with ladder-like repititive games where you see same thing and same stuff every match. There were also mini-tournaments on the proposed balance patches, even if the changes didn't made it it was good to see, when theres money on the line you know players will work hard to make builds and abuse all the strenghts and weaknesess so its always good to have some of those. | ||
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[ReCoN]Malacath
France4 Posts
On December 20 2014 06:34 Existor wrote: There were tournaments on Starbow. Was it ideally balanced? I'm not sure. But it was clearly fun and interesting to watch, far more interesting than standard tournaments with ladder-like repititive games where you see same thing and same stuff every match. Starbow was way more balanced than LotV. All you gonna see here is cyclones and HERCs. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 20 2014 08:48 [ReCoN]Malacath wrote: Starbow was way more balanced than LotV. All you gonna see here is cyclones and HERCs. It was "way more balanced than lotv custom" from first version? I'm not sure again | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 20 2014 05:47 [ReCoN]Malacath wrote: God... How can we have faith in humanity when money is given to players for playing on a fanmade version of a pre-alpha build of an upcoming extenison which is completely unbalanced ? Better question is who are you and why are u here? Just leave. PS: Your balance whine is that of a typical forum goer. You clearly either haven't played this game or are just bad at it. User was warned for this post edit: NovemberstOrm is probably the worst TL moderator I've seen if he warned me for telling someone who clearly came to this thread to whine about balance after being registered for months to leave lol wtf. | ||
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[ReCoN]Malacath
France4 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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ETisME
12355 Posts
Thanks for hosting tourney! | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
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Alpino
Brazil4390 Posts
On December 20 2014 09:39 -Kyo- wrote: Better question is who are you and why are u here? Just leave. PS: Your balance whine is that of a typical forum goer. You clearly either haven't played this game or are just bad at it. User was warned for this post edit: NovemberstOrm is probably the worst TL moderator I've seen if he warned me for telling someone who clearly came to this thread to whine about balance after being registered for months to leave lol wtf. He probably warned your post because it doesn't meet TL's standards, it lacks content and baited more useless offtopic unfriendly banter between you both. | ||
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EndOfLineTv
United States741 Posts
On December 19 2014 07:00 MarlieChurphy wrote: So far with zerg it seems to me that a decent opener is as follows: 14 overlord, 14 drone, 14 extractor, 14 drone 14 extractor trick (2nd gas) 15 drone 17? pool asap. (start when put 3 drones on gas/extractor finishes) pump drones (3 more) 19? lair asap. 19? expand to nat when excess 225+ pump drones (3 more) 21? 2nd extractor, pump drones (2 more) 22? Overlord 23? Spire or Hydra den>Lurker den pump drones (5 more) 24-26? make queens x2 21? 3rd extractor split drone count between the bases. (8 minerals each) Upgrade ling speed asap. Upgrade lord speed/make overseer to scout their base better. Save corruption to slow a tech or unit. Make sure you have enough overlords to support 5-6 corruptors/hydras>lurkers (same min/gas/supply cost for each iirc) This gives most options as far as tech route/harass and you can continue to pump drones and take a 3rd base while harassing. What I've been trying is spire, and make several corruptors, and getting ling speed next. Might need to make some adjustments with specific defensive timings/exploits on the build but haven't ran into those yet. Corruptors are pretty beefy as far as defense as well as harass. Takes 7 corruptors to 1 shot a worker, but 8 for an scv. Their 'attack speed' seems pretty fast though, so it's not that difficult to snipe workers if you have less. This may work.... vs my gm terrans I like to use this build: 12ov (get ov first!) 16 gatch 17pool 18gas 20ov 2 queen speed. take off gas. 30 third queen 32ov 40 third base, then ov, 2 gas, put guys back onto main gas. 52 RW, 2 evos, 4th gas. 55 2 ov. Now you can choose to do 1 1 roach all in. fast lair, into muta/corruptor, (standard) Life 1 1 ling bane timing. Whatever you want to do honestly. | ||
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Honner
United Kingdom65 Posts
On December 20 2014 04:43 Alex007 wrote: Greetings to all LOTV Custom players. ESL, Razer, Sc2TV.RU and Clever.Press prepared a small exhibition tournament called Clever.LOTV with 15000 Russian Rubles (~$250) prize pool & 3 Razer device sets in addition. It will include the Community Bracket on Saturday (with ML competitors from the list of casters and ex-pros fighting for devices) and the Pro Bracket on Sunday with Kas, sLivko, Fraer and Minato fighting for the prize pool.Games will be played on LOTV Custom Maps in Arcade, all in best of 3 format in a double elimination bracket. Join us at http://twitch.tv/esl_cis on Saturday, Dec 20 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) and Sunday, Dec 21 3:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) to see how LOTV Custom looks like in our region Huge thanks to all of the map developers and special thanks to Existor for assistance <3 This seems to be live now for anyone who fancies watching some of the fanmade LotV maps. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
Whole game I had like 1k gas, could have had like 8 lurkers to defend my 3rd. Also said that I think pheonix is gonna be a mainstay as they seem to be the best counter to ravagers, lurkers, corruptors etc in the mid game.+ tons of map control and scouting, as well as overlord checking. I could never get my lurkers where they needed to be with your fenix everywhere, lost like the initial 5 or so on the transition even though I burrowed immediately upon seeing the fenix, even ahead of time before you even saw the lurkers at some points. Would be interesting to see how massing corruptors and lings fares against massed fenix with range and whatever other protoss ground they get. perhaps fenix need a nerf or lurker needs a buff in that regard? Something to do with their channeling time/burrowing time. Or maybe change lurker armor type/unit type? | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 21 2014 04:10 MarlieChurphy wrote: -Kyo-, well IIrc, i said I think that build is good, just bad execution/still need to work on the fine details/timings. Whole game I had like 1k gas, could have had like 8 lurkers to defend my 3rd. Also said that I think pheonix is gonna be a mainstay as they seem to be the best counter to ravagers, lurkers, corruptors etc in the mid game.+ tons of map control and scouting, as well as overlord checking. I could never get my lurkers where they needed to be with your fenix everywhere, lost like the initial 5 or so on the transition even though I burrowed immediately upon seeing the fenix, even ahead of time before you even saw the lurkers at some points. Would be interesting to see how massing corruptors and lings fares against massed fenix with range and whatever other protoss ground they get. perhaps fenix need a nerf or lurker needs a buff in that regard? Something to do with their channeling time/burrowing time. Or maybe change lurker armor type/unit type? I think lurkers are quite strong honestly. They were destroying gateway units pretty hard. Pheonix do not need a nerf otherwise they'd be horrible vs muta. I think it's just more of an execution thing. In fact, I could honestly see lurker pushes being incredibly hard to hold. It's definitely something interesting I hope to have other people test out. | ||
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 21 2014 09:11 -Kyo- wrote: I think lurkers are quite strong honestly. They were destroying gateway units pretty hard. Pheonix do not need a nerf otherwise they'd be horrible vs muta. I think it's just more of an execution thing. In fact, I could honestly see lurker pushes being incredibly hard to hold. It's definitely something interesting I hope to have other people test out. A nerf in the channelling ability, or mana cost etc. Nothing to do with muta. Just so they can't kill heavy costed armor units so easily. Wether that be making the graviton cost more, or take a bit longer to cast, or not allow to grab lurkers that already began burrowing, or have fenix do less damage to certain unit types so it takes longer, or requires more fenix or nearby units. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 21 2014 10:53 MarlieChurphy wrote: A nerf in the channelling ability, or mana cost etc. Nothing to do with muta. Just so they can't kill heavy costed armor units so easily. If you invest into that many phx they definitely should be able to kill a few lurkers. They do not need to be nerfed. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
And they have other functions besides denying lurkers. The point I'm making is that if someone is going lurkers, I don't really think they will have the resources/investment to have AA nearby to deal with the fenix as well. (ling/lurker) so it sort of just hard counters, assuming the fenix user has good map control with them. It needs more testing, and I could be completely wrong, just saying it's something to note. You didn't have detection for a long time, and yet I couldn't really do anything with lurkers. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 21 2014 10:58 MarlieChurphy wrote: How many did you make though, like 6-8 ? And they have other functions besides denying lurkers. The point I'm making is that if someone is going lurkers, I don't really think they will have the resources/investment to have AA nearby to deal with the fenix as well. (ling/lurker) so it sort of just hard counters, assuming the fenix user has good map control with them. It needs more testing, and I could be completely wrong, just saying it's something to note. You didn't have detection for a long time, and yet I couldn't really do anything with lurkers. You will have hydras.... I didn't make detection because I was so far ahead it didn't really matter... @_@;; Phx are not a hard counter to lurkers. As I stated earlier it is most certainly an execution problem rather than lotv problem. | ||
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Edowyth
United States183 Posts
I know they're available under the arcade menu, but if they were in the normal maps section, we could just select "play with mod" and combine the two... I don't think you can combine two extension mods in the game because of possible conflicts and I'm pretty sure the extension mod files are locked by blizzard to prevent piracy. While I refuse to steal their work, I'd like to have the opportunity for people to play with the known LotV changes and some proposed ones. *shrug* Is there a canonical way of doing this and I'm missing it or am I just out of luck short of getting direct permission and files form the creators? | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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Edowyth
United States183 Posts
On December 23 2014 06:21 IeZaeL wrote: Mod is unlocked. Just add it from the Battle.net editor window into your own map/mod. I never would have found that without help. Thank you for the tip. :D | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=00532457838627175228 btw, something that is overlooked here, It takes like 4 storms to kill a lurker. And since lurkers seem to unburrow and be able to move away faster than in BW, they are really elusive versus HT. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
As far as what disruptors do, I think they do splash all ground units, it's just common that they both have active invulnerability when they explode so they don't die/get damaged. As far as vs the blink stalker build vs disruptors, did you try making 1 less gate and forgee/canon leap frog out towards your natural? Seems like it could be possible with 2-3 canons maybe? You final thoughts about the oracle change not being a good option vs banshee or DT is actually a good change though. Previously it just takes the role of the observer entirely. And it has more hp, can move faster, and can also serve as a harassment or scouting unit. This is a bad overlap, as it allows certain builds to be nearly impervious at no extra cost in tech to be safe to other specific builds. If that were fair, why not give all overlords detection like bw again then? Zerg needs better detection options too. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 24 2014 08:21 MarlieChurphy wrote: Thanks for vids kyo, keep it up. As far as what disruptors, I think they do splash all ground units, it's just common that they both have active invulnerability when they explode so they don't die/get damaged. I think it should be same as Widow Mines. And it is now. Widow mines can damage other terran units, but can't damage other widow mines. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On December 24 2014 08:23 Existor wrote: I think it should be same as Widow Mines. And it is now. Widow mines can damage other terran units, but can't damage other widow mines. I made a post about this before: if disruptors both activate at the same time they shouldn't damage each other since both are invulnerable (if necessary extend the invulnerability effect by a few frames), but if you carelessly activate a single disruptor in the middle of a group of disruptors then why shouldn't all of them die? You are perfectly capable of saving them after all, you can always activate the invulnerability on the other ones, simply split your units or not make such a mistake in the first place. Disruptors are different from widow mines, they already have some way to get immunity, while widow mines would suffer from the baneling effect where if one of them blows up they will kill all other widow mines. (for reference, when I last tested it in the mod they didn't damage each other period) | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 24 2014 08:21 MarlieChurphy wrote: You final thoughts about the oracle change not being a good option vs banshee or DT is actually a good change though. Previously it just takes the role of the observer entirely. And it has more hp, can move faster, and can also serve as a harassment or scouting unit. This is a bad overlap, as it allows certain builds to be nearly impervious at no extra cost in tech to be safe to other specific builds. If that were fair, why not give all overlords detection like bw again then? Zerg needs better detection options too. Not to be too overly critical but your analysis here is very off. The reason it was acceptable in HotS was that it gave you a different way to play the MUs and they have become very main stream openers off of this. To be restricted to robotics tech for permanent detection as a protoss player is quite terrible. There is no protoss build since mid 2013 where you get a forge early enough to defend against Banshee with cloak now. Terrans have scans AND turrets which are a part of all reasonable builds. Zergs have Overseers and spore which are a part of all reasonable builds. If you open SG and something else, which is very understandable in PvP or PvT -- as we are the tech and attack race-- and then simply die because someone makes cloaked units it is most certainly NOT the fact that the build is bad but rather just an unnecessary nerf to a unit. I am under the impression most all other pro players will agree with this. I am not sure how else they can go about keeping both of these options unless they want to limit openers from Toss players, which may be what they're attempting to do idk? The oracle as it was before played a very important role in defending against such attacks and now when they buff things like Banshee so that they start with cloak it only seems reasonable that if you want a Pheonix which kills air you should simultaneously be able to make Oracles to help defend against such a push. It is an investment of 2 units vs 1 unit. Now, that one unit has been buffed with something that used to be an upgrade. Yet the defending player gets nerfed. This is not how it should be. So, in short, the effective cost of a banshee is much lower than what protoss must build to defend against them. That's just bad all around. Just in case people buy into what was stated above... No one permanently uses Oracles for detection in any match ups. It's a short temporary fix for transitioning as are turrets and spores. If we're going to accurately discuss implications of the direction their changes are going in please do not post things that may lead other readers to think about the game incorrectly. @_@;; and edit: disruptors do not hit each other. I do not think they should either. I do think they may need to have their CD nerfed to 45 seconds however. Or something of the sort. 30 seconds might still feel a little too short when you have 5 of them. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On December 24 2014 09:16 -Kyo- wrote: disruptors do not hit each other. I do not think they should either. Why though? What situation exists where it's bothersome to have disruptors damaging each other. I can't really think of one. | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 24 2014 09:26 Grumbels wrote: Why though? What situation exists where it's bothersome to have disruptors damaging each other. I can't really think of one. Then why widow mines dnn't hit eachother? Same question about banelings. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On December 24 2014 10:26 Existor wrote: Then why widow mines dnn't hit eachother? Same question about banelings. The situations are nothing alike, why even bring it up? If friendly fire: Group of widow mines | one auto-triggers | all widow mines die. Group of banelings | one auto-triggers | all banelings die. Disruptors have no auto triggers and if you activate them all at once they don't kill each other anyway because of the immunity while casting. | ||
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crbox
Canada1180 Posts
On December 24 2014 09:16 -Kyo- wrote: Not to be too overly critical but your analysis here is very off. The reason it was acceptable in HotS was that it gave you a different way to play the MUs and they have become very main stream openers off of this. To be restricted to robotics tech for permanent detection as a protoss player is quite terrible. There is no protoss build since mid 2013 where you get a forge early enough to defend against Banshee with cloak now. Terrans have scans AND turrets which are a part of all reasonable builds. Zergs have Overseers and spore which are a part of all reasonable builds. If you open SG and something else, which is very understandable in PvP or PvT -- as we are the tech and attack race-- and then simply die because someone makes cloaked units it is most certainly NOT the fact that the build is bad but rather just an unnecessary nerf to a unit. I am under the impression most all other pro players will agree with this. I am not sure how else they can go about keeping both of these options unless they want to limit openers from Toss players, which may be what they're attempting to do idk? The oracle as it was before played a very important role in defending against such attacks and now when they buff things like Banshee so that they start with cloak it only seems reasonable that if you want a Pheonix which kills air you should simultaneously be able to make Oracles to help defend against such a push. It is an investment of 2 units vs 1 unit. Now, that one unit has been buffed with something that used to be an upgrade. Yet the defending player gets nerfed. This is not how it should be. So, in short, the effective cost of a banshee is much lower than what protoss must build to defend against them. That's just bad all around. Just in case people buy into what was stated above... No one permanently uses Oracles for detection in any match ups. It's a short temporary fix for transitioning as are turrets and spores. If we're going to accurately discuss implications of the direction their changes are going in please do not post things that may lead other readers to think about the game incorrectly. @_@;; and edit: disruptors do not hit each other. I do not think they should either. I do think they may need to have their CD nerfed to 45 seconds however. Or something of the sort. 30 seconds might still feel a little too short when you have 5 of them. you can just make a sentry, hallucinate a pheonix and scout that he is going banshee. From there, you either drop a robotic if you have the time, or if you're in a hurry, you get a quick forge. As simple as that. You have really no excuse to die from cloaked unit apart from being too greedy with your gas. In that case, you are just taking a gamble and sometime it will pay off (in the form of an oracle wiping a whole mineral line because of it arriving earlier) and sometimes it will backfire | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 24 2014 11:41 crbox wrote: you can just make a sentry, hallucinate a pheonix and scout that he is going banshee. As simple as that. You have really no excuse to die from cloaked unit apart from being too greedy with your gas. Name a reasonable SG opener in HotS for protoss that is "being too greedy" with gas with a SG opener other than 10g 10gas 2nd pylon proxy oracle? You are telling me to make a sentry, get a msc and then defend a scouting reaper for example? I'd be interested to hear this new amazing perspective to the meta game in PvT because uh, last time I checked no one has made a sentry that early since like late 2012 unless they're going stalker > sentry > colo drop... By choosing to go SG first surely can be a "gamble" but the point I made was that it isn't an all in to simply make a different tech building first. This is common variation in PvP. If doing so is in fact a economic all in, then again as I stated above, there is clearly something wrong with the nerf to the unit. Again, for all I know this could be what they're trying to achieve but I don't think it makes any reasonable amount of sense in retrospect to how the game is played now (HotS) and will, unless you are choosing to all in, virtually eliminate SG openers in PvP as the video was based on. Two DTs split will literally end a game if your builds clash. This sort of thing is easily avoided due to how the oracle is now. And to be clear, it doesn't mean PvP is instantly a terrible MU due to this change or that PvT is unwinnable it just means there is less variation for more interesting games. It is sort of incomprehensible because they already have it set up in a good way, but instead nerfed one unit which effects a ton of things and simultaneously buffed another that it is supposed to help counter. That should seem odd to everyone from a balance perspective. About the Disruptor: I do not think it should do friendly fire to other disruptors because of the role it fills. It is supposed to be an alternative unit to the colossus and allows for the protoss player to stay ground based. This is particularly relevant when playing PvT. You can use disruptors to kill things like widow mines/make the bio split while then using a composition like zealot/immortal/storm. Your disruptors already murder zealots making them kill each other really does not allow you to have them follow suite from one another due to the fact that the trailing disruptors have a possibility to just die to the others. In essence, you'd be microing them /too/ much. It's cool to see disruptors microed vs bio, but when you're controlling multiple ones it seems odd to have to avoid your own other disruptors if you're microing against an army >.> | ||
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crbox
Canada1180 Posts
If the terran doesn't expand, guess what, he could be going for banshee / mines. Maybe in that case you delay whatever techpath your going to build literally one unit that lets you scout the whole map. Or you could just scout with your phoenix if you're going SG. I mean blizzard made it so that every race can scout pretty easily now. If you don't see a rush coming, it's pretty much your fault. I play Z and when I don't scout something, it's because I didn't try hard enough, not because of "imbalance". You're saying nobody builds a sentry early? I mean I don't follow the pro scene anymore except finals and interesting games with Z (so rarely PvT) but it seems like an incredibly dumb statement. They must've a reason not to not build sentries in the games you watch. If you're having trouble with cloaked units, build detectors, seems pretty simple to me. I understand that you're saying that it limits SG opening, but once again, an aggressive / techy cookie-cutter opening is pretty much a gamble, whether you like it or not. It'll win you game, it'll lose you some, but you can still play smartly and recognize a situation where the terran is going for cloak banshees and delay something to get a forge. Other than that I don't know what to say. The game isn't even out yet, we know nothing of LotV but I doubt that any opening is limited so far. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 24 2014 13:13 crbox wrote: you're talking of builds like you can never deviate from them... I understand most tryhards follow builds blindly but let me give you my 2 cents. You're saying nobody builds a sentry early? I mean I don't follow the pro scene anymore except finals and interesting games with Z (so rarely PvT) but it seems like an incredibly dumb statement. They must've a reason not to not build sentries in the games you watch. I saw you in the LotV chat channel today so I'll be rather simple in my explanation for you. No. No one builds sentries in PvT until later. No, no one builds SG an oracle and then a robotics + sentries + obs in PvP especially assuming an oracle cannot detect 2 different units. It might sound incredibly dumb to you due to your aforementioned statement of "I mean I don't follow the pro scene anymore.... so let me give you these reasons why I am clearly right and you are wrong" It's not about being a "tryhard" it's about doing builds that work vs good players. If that is too hard to comprehend for you then... O.o... I am hoping that I am not coming off as a random forum person... I actually play the game a bit D; + Show Spoiler + I am all for reasonable deduction about units/balance etc, but when people post things that is so clearly wrong about the meta and then it just so happens other people from lower leagues read it and internalize it to be correct it is just incredibly detrimental to their understanding and discussion of the game. @_@;; | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
Mainly they serve as a transition or delayer, not an outright counter (at least in the early game). And it could be argued that even late game, they are terrible forms of detection as more units will be around to snipe them off etc. Protoss can do the same thing with canons and it only costs a forge (which you will probably have for upgrades already, the same as ebay) and 300 minerals minimum, and that cost is obviously higher because it hits air and ground. Bringing this stuff up is sort of silly as far as mobile detection goes though, that's really what we were talking about. Protoss - 2 units. (1 is fast and can defend itself, the other is cloaked) Terran - 1 unit, 1 ability. (1 can defend itself, the other just requires you have energy to get detection instantly) Zerg - 1 unit. ( assuming you have placed overlords around the map and the opponent hasn't killed them etc, they can be morphed in 20 seconds) If anyone needs more detection it's zerg. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
This way you can be macroing and still know what kind of units are fighting, what is dieing, what needs to be built unitwise, what kind of tech you need, if you need defensive structure etc. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 26 2014 13:58 MarlieChurphy wrote: Can you guys mod archon mode so it has a camera in the corner of the screen somewhere where you can see your ally's screen. This way you can be macroing and still know what kind of units are fighting, what is dieing, what needs to be built unitwise, what kind of tech you need, if you need defensive structure etc. ...what? >.>... | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
Basically, he's saying that you should be able to know where your ally is looking so that you can adjust accordingly. I think. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On December 26 2014 14:34 The_Templar wrote: Basically, he's saying that you should be able to know where your ally is looking so that you can adjust accordingly. I think. I understood. But if the game tells you how to beat it or all the things your teammate is doing it doesn't seem like much of a challenging game anymore does it? xD Moreover, this is, as far as I understand, not do-able. If you want to see your teammates screeen you need a stream/viewer program not the in game mod >.> | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
What? If a perfect robot played SC2, all that is left to do is decision making anyway. That's the 'star sense'. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
there was a mini-tournament with 4 Polish GM players: Nerchio, Tefel, Miszu and Indy VODs from twitch are here: http://www.twitch.tv/castplay/b/603780205 no English cast | ||
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Babru
196 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On December 28 2014 22:17 Babru wrote: Are the latest changes implemented in the fan alpha yet (the latest mineral changes for example)? If not, any information on when that might happen? yes. There seems to be a bug with this actually. On my map (recreated bloodbath from BW) there are mineral chunks that are value 30 in order to aid in early game walling sim city. As well as the gas geysers and side minerals being different values as they were in BW (essentially the map was 2 bases in 1 for total mineral value). However in the new mod changes, it seems to just ignore all that stuff and randomly assign 750 or 1500 to things. The gas geysers were still the same actually though. (stayed at 5k each) Can we fix this? Wasn't an issue with the original lotv alpha mod. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
Also how come this version didn't implement the lurker range upgrade to be on lair? Blizzard said in the development update: no longer hive tech. Also, where to reach developers of this mod... is it here? | ||
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klipik12
United States241 Posts
On December 27 2014 04:10 -Kyo- wrote: I understood. But if the game tells you how to beat it or all the things your teammate is doing it doesn't seem like much of a challenging game anymore does it? xD Moreover, this is, as far as I understand, not do-able. If you want to see your teammates screeen you need a stream/viewer program not the in game mod >.> I imagine this would be possible. When you watch a replay or spectate, you can lock your camera to a player's vision and see where they're looking and what they have selected. You could have a mod that takes the information of where your ally's screen is and displays it as a different colored box on the minimap. I think. As for the actual mod, when can we expect an update to reflect the announced design changed? That is happening, right? | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On January 02 2015 08:21 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote: Everything but the auto-cast cyclone should be updated. Explanation Video coming soon you didnt link your channel in the farewell vid I hope you addressed my concern above. Ty | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On December 24 2014 13:22 -Kyo- wrote: I saw you in the LotV chat channel today so I'll be rather simple in my explanation for you. No. No one builds sentries in PvT until later. No, no one builds SG an oracle and then a robotics + sentries + obs in PvP especially assuming an oracle cannot detect 2 different units. and why? Because they can get away with it in the current state of balance and metagame. If the balance is changed, it means nothing what good players are doing and what they don't, its outdated BO decisions. The second part is just absurd, there is no need arguing about that. If PvP is being forced into that I'm sure Blizzard will change things long before release. | ||
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IeZaeL
Italy991 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
I have a few other replays with mech between us so let me know if u guys want to see more. I have one where I even go mass carriers. | ||
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
On January 13 2015 04:58 -Kyo- wrote: Uploaded another video to my youtube. A protoss vs mech between me and thestc. Just my overall ideas on mech, and basically why I think the immortal is god awful now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUYBv_BlSKs I have a few other replays with mech between us so let me know if u guys want to see more. I have one where I even go mass carriers. Can you upload them somewhere? I'm interested. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
A quick remark though : it seems there is no way to avoid a 4-5 sec supply block if you go -as I think should be expected- probe, pylon and then resume probes. I may be wrong here, but wouldn't it be good to increase the initial mineral count from 50 to 100 so that you can go probe -> pylon -> resume probes without probe cut (I guess the same applies to other races too) ? | ||
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Camilia
4 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On January 13 2015 04:59 Everlong wrote: Can you upload them somewhere? I'm interested. I suggest you tweet @huskystarcraft to cast some of them ! I sent him 3 replays but he hasn't really moved on any of them yet. I'm waiting to see if he decides to cast any, but if not then I'll go ahead and do some more~ | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2626 Posts
On January 13 2015 15:05 -Kyo- wrote: I suggest you tweet @huskystarcraft to cast some of them ! I sent him 3 replays but he hasn't really moved on any of them yet. I'm waiting to see if he decides to cast any, but if not then I'll go ahead and do some more~Send them to Jakatak, he is casting a lot of LotV games I'm sure he will be happy to do it | ||
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ETisME
12355 Posts
On January 13 2015 04:58 -Kyo- wrote: Uploaded another video to my youtube. A protoss vs mech between me and thestc. Just my overall ideas on mech, and basically why I think the immortal is god awful now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUYBv_BlSKs I have a few other replays with mech between us so let me know if u guys want to see more. I have one where I even go mass carriers. I don't think that was immortal being weak, your army were just way smaller than his. sure you had the "perfect" counter units like immortals and archons, he also landed perfect emps. I believe even in hots it wouldn't have beat that mech army | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5414 Posts
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2626 Posts
On January 13 2015 22:37 ETisME wrote: I don't think that was immortal being weak, your army were just way smaller than his. sure you had the "perfect" counter units like immortals and archons, he also landed perfect emps. I believe even in hots it wouldn't have beat that mech army I agree this is the intended efect, in HotS you can 1A immortals into a aiege line with a superior supply and win, here you just 1A your immortals into a well placed siege line, a terran or zerg army can't do that and win I don't see why a protoss army should | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On January 13 2015 22:37 ETisME wrote: I don't think that was immortal being weak, your army were just way smaller than his. sure you had the "perfect" counter units like immortals and archons, he also landed perfect emps. I believe even in hots it wouldn't have beat that mech army The point of this replay wasn't to showcase either player having perfect play. I also believe that even in HotS I would have lost this game, I don't have any issue admitting that especially vs thestc; however, I think it would have been in a different fashion. In HotS it is okay to engage and disengage with immortals mid map to slow down their push (this is pretty similar to BW PvsMech and you can see me in the middle of the map before his push comes) and let them regenerate shields while running home. However, in LotV you can't really do this due to the fact that immortals do not have the sustainability they used to have. If you use the ability in this current patch the immortal literally becomes useless vs mech after that 3 seconds. I kill like 3 tanks out of his whole army because you can't really dedicate to any attack with such weak units >.> Honestly, if you cannot tell there is a problem here I don't know what to say @_@;; I am getting a lost of posters on youtube telling me that you can't play mech at all in HotS so this is clearly the only way to balance the game. I feel like a lot of people are unaware that quite good players still play mech in HotS but it is just map dependent. This change is just silly, and more than likely, has already been reverted in their in-house play development, especially considering they were debating making it an upgrade (??!? this is just >.>...) On January 13 2015 22:40 SoleSteeler wrote: Didn't watch your viewpoint (yet) but I watched thestc play you a few times on his stream. Really entertaining games. Better than the LOTV Axiom tournament to be honest. Glad you enjoyed the games. As I mentioned, I definitely have more awesome replays so I'll check out if anyone popular wants to cast some of them. I just made this one to show how weak the immortals are after we decided he should play mech vs toss. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2626 Posts
On January 14 2015 06:28 -Kyo- wrote: The point of this replay wasn't to showcase either player having perfect play. I also believe that even in HotS I would have lost this game, I don't have any issue admitting that especially vs thestc; however, I think it would have been in a different fashion. In HotS it is okay to engage and disengage with immortals mid map to slow down their push (this is pretty similar to BW PvsMech and you can see me in the middle of the map before his push comes) and let them regenerate shields while running home. However, in LotV you can't really do this due to the fact that immortals do not have the sustainability they used to have. If you use the ability in this current patch the immortal literally becomes useless vs mech after that 3 seconds. I kill like 3 tanks out of his whole army because you can't really dedicate to any attack with such weak units >.> Honestly, if you cannot tell there is a problem here I don't know what to say @_@;; I am getting a lost of posters on youtube telling me that you can't play mech at all in HotS so this is clearly the only way to balance the game. I feel like a lot of people are unaware that quite good players still play mech in HotS but it is just map dependent. This change is just silly, and more than likely, has already been reverted in their in-house play development, especially considering they were debating making it an upgrade (??!? this is just >.>...) Glad you enjoyed the games. As I mentioned, I definitely have more awesome replays so I'll check out if anyone popular wants to cast some of them. I just made this one to show how weak the immortals are after we decided he should play mech vs toss. I agree that immortals are weak now, but I HARDLY doubt they are going to give hardened shield back, its an awful design, as I said in my youtube comment, they will most likely give them something that isn't hardened shield, I'm not sure you understand the problem really, and I see why being a really high level player you are very encased in your play, but the change is not a balance change, hardened shield needs to go, then they can give whatever they wan't to the immortal to make it work. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On January 14 2015 06:32 Lexender wrote: I agree that immortals are weak now, but I HARDLY doubt they are going to give hardened shield back, its an awful design, as I said in my youtube comment, they will most likely give them something that isn't hardened shield, I'm not sure you understand the problem really, and I see why being a really high level player you are very encased in your play, but the change is not a balance change, hardened shield needs to go, then they can give whatever they wan't to the immortal to make it work. I usually try to be rather unbiased in my approach to game design and balance and I posted a blog quite some time ago on many things I think, in general, ought to change. I may adjust some of the suggestions I had from back then to the game now, but nonetheless, I generally speaking want the best game from each race's perspective. In this case, my point of consideration is not that hardened shields is a must, but that if you're going to change a core ability of a unit that lets you fight against a certain style of play(Mech), and also has an incredibly important role in PvZ, then you ought to be adding something of similar, or near similar, value to the unit. They currently have not, and have not yet announced that they will. Therefore I wanted to make a basic point with the replay: Immortals are bad vs mech. Tempests don't shoot vikings = Mech is overall a lot harder to even engage/build an army to fight. So, deductively speaking, you've not only reduced two different ways to fight mech, affected the unit in PvZ, but also, given meching players ways to harass and attack while defending. Whether hardened shields are in the final version or not I think it should be clear that immortals will not remain like this current patch. They are simply bad. While I have explained this multiple times I have not really seen a reason from you why hardened shields absolutely have to go. I have already stated that many Terran players still go mech and win. It's mainly map dependent, but that does not mean mech is awful by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, I'd say lategame mech is incredibly strong and generally speaking Protoss players don't even end up with immortals to fight against it as they move on to an air army, which as I just mentioned, is also now affected. It is for these reason that I am not really sure where this 'mech is weak' connotation comes from other than from players like avilo and his fans... who... well...yeah... | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On January 13 2015 22:37 ETisME wrote: I don't think that was immortal being weak, your army were just way smaller than his. sure you had the "perfect" counter units like immortals and archons, he also landed perfect emps. I believe even in hots it wouldn't have beat that mech army I'm pretty sure the counter to mech in LotV is meant to be carriers. | ||
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iknowFiRE
Slovenia37 Posts
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TiberiusAk
United States122 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On January 11 2015 22:52 IeZaeL wrote: Axiom LotV tournament is starting http://www.twitch.tv/totalbiscuit Vods are up. Most of the games are pretty bad though as a lot of the players are jus messing around and don't seem to know what the new units do or what all their options are as their race. EG; I think probably the strongest thing terran got int LOTV is actually the lifted seige tank (especially as a rush tactic) and you only really see it used once quite late and ineffectively. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + Couple of things to note about LOTV and this tourney. Firstly QXC and TB seem to keep calling things wrong names, mainly the corrosive bile (as bile shot). The name is kind of bad considering what the spell actually does. I think the name should be explosive bile or something along those lines. Also every time it's used, it's used pretty poorly. 2nd, as I mentioned nearly a month ago, tempest seems to be the strongest most overpowered unit so far. The speed, the range, the large HP/shields, and the free ability is just too much as a package. AA units that are made to counter it have a really tough time doing so. It could use a HP reduction and/or nerf to the ability (give it a mana cost, an upgrade, etc). 3rd, at one point QXC tries to theorize what the best counter to mass tempest/protoss air is and says hydra/infestor or something. Which is pretty wrong. I've played some FFAs where I had to deal with this and the best option really seems to be fungal/corrosive bile with whatever corruptor support you have left over in the transition. Hydras are pretty terrible unless you can get them burrowed and ambush the protoss. However, even then the tempest range+hp+movespeed is just so hard to deal with you have to have an overwhelming advantage in supply as well as a positional advantage/flank. Which is very difficult due to terrain abuse and the burst damage output of the tempest (like half your shit dies getting in range to fungal and cast bile etc). And the protoss needs to have to be clumped up at least partially as the corrosive bile is such a small radius. It could possibly use a bonus damage to air units since it's so hard to land on air stuff (which was mentioned by TB since the game is 3D and it's angled and hard to tell even with the little yellow reticle below). 4th, as far as strong builds overall in the ZvP matchup, I think an early expand 2 base all in style of speedling and a couple of ravagers seems to be really strong if drone production stops and nothing but lings are used as reinforcement. I really think the staple build of protoss will be something like oracle into fenixes as it's sort of the safest catch all build that can easily transition into tempest or whatever really. 5th, the sentiment that 12pool works in ZvP is wrong. It never works if the protoss isn't a retard. If you are going Nexus first, you need to wall your ramp or choke. Derp In one of the games with the Herc, they talk about the ion cannon (which is the attack of the unit). QXC seems to hint at how absurd that sounds seemingly because of the classic C&C building/attack. And then TB idiotically makes a quip about good thing it's not called powerfist as some other game company would sue without realizing that Dustin Browder definitely straight copied that from C&C and is probably some sort of joke because of how much damage their attack does on such a small scale. PS- Jakatak, I really appreciate the work in the mod and the videos of lotv games, but most of them are pretty terrible players. And you commentary doesn't at least help to make it entertaining. I know you asked on one of your videos what kind of constructive criticism people would have for you, but it's sort of everything. You don't seem to have much of a grasp on high level gameplay or tactics (which is forgivable to a degree since everything is new), your weird voices and bad jokes are obvious filler that have no place, your constant self deprecation is also repulsive since it's just not funny. Sorry to be so blunt, but that's just my opinion. As far as tips, since you seem to lack that enthusiasm in your voice (that others mentioned) and that's something that takes a lot of development to fake or be genuine with, I'd suggest just sticking to an analytical route and cut out anything that detracts from that. Stick to facts and and build orders and watch the minimap more closely even when you already speaking about 'boring' stuff. It all comes off very 'tryhard' and in order to get away with that you just need to update your knowledge or ditch it entirely and go with a super casual casting style where it's totally nonsensical and unserious. This is an example of sort of the kind of casting you are doing when it has that enthusiasm + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On January 16 2015 21:40 Grumbels wrote: I think casting is a very difficult job, I've never seen a youtube caster or random stream commentator that could in any way live up to people like Artosis and such. I've often wondered about this, because you would think anyone with an engaging personality and skill at public speaking would be at least promising despite a possible lack of game knowledge or technical ability. But these people don't seem to exist, or at least, they don't decide to become SC2 commentators. I don't think it's as difficult as people make it seem. It's just that sc2 players are less likely to be charismatic or having the social and speaking skills along with all the other requirements. Your last sentence kinda sums it up. I'd cast stuff if I had a better PC. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
Still no casts from Husky, I assume he is really busy since he hasn't had any uploads for over a week now. If you want him to help get more views for the video a simple tweet helps a lot | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On January 16 2015 22:04 MarlieChurphy wrote: I don't think it's as difficult as people make it seem. It's just that sc2 players are less likely to be charismatic or having the social and speaking skills along with all the other requirements. Your last sentence kinda sums it up. I'd cast stuff if I had a better PC. I'll be stepping into that brave new world myself, once I've saved up the money. I've got a co-caster lined up to start with me and everything. I'll finally be able to put my radio voice to use that my theater director back in high school was always nagging me about. I could really go for the Immortals being altered in a way similar to OneGoal, with how they've kept their excellent bulk and been reduced in price, in exchange for a much lower vs armored bonus damage. I like the active shields ability, but maybe combine that with some stat tweaks. | ||
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wrj
219 Posts
1)SH supply from 3>>4 2)SH flying locust upgrade from 120 sec>>160 sec 3) Add a swoop ability: "Swoop: Orders the Locust to land at the targeted location, allowing it to attack." | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
On January 21 2015 22:20 wrj wrote: i just want to tell you guys that with the new LOTV sh details released by blizard 3 changes need to be made to the mod: 1)SH supply from 3>>4 2)SH flying locust upgrade from 120 sec>>160 sec 3) Add a swoop ability: "Swoop: Orders the Locust to land at the targeted location, allowing it to attack." Erm, aren't these from HotS balance test map? They're not actually implemented yet I don't think? | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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ETisME
12355 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On January 22 2015 12:35 -Kyo- wrote: Erm, aren't these from HotS balance test map? They're not actually implemented yet I don't think? Yea but obviously they are using it to test for the lotv game. I mean they wouldn't just make a bunch of changes to a game that would be irrelevant for the upcoming changes. That'd be like patching or making a balance test map for WOL right now. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
On January 23 2015 04:16 MarlieChurphy wrote: Yea but obviously they are using it to test for the lotv game. I mean they wouldn't just make a bunch of changes to a game that would be irrelevant for the upcoming changes. That'd be like patching or making a balance test map for WOL right now. I agree. This is what Blizzard said: "we’ve already spent a lot of time on these changes internally". It obviously refers to the Swarm Host & Raven changes on their internal LotV versions. | ||
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Malakhian
France4 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
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bluQ
Germany1724 Posts
On February 08 2015 08:10 [PkF] Wire wrote: If the economy remains unchanged, what do you think should be an optimal workers number for each race in the midgame ? Assuming maps aren't all Deadwings and you can't always hold 4 bases easily, your main mines out so quick you can't realistically hope to have optimal 3 bases saturation, so producing 60+ probes/SCVs or 80+ drones seems kinda pointless. What do you think ? 1 saturated base = 16 + 3x2 workers = 22 workers 3x saturated base = 22 x 3 worker = 66 workers So ... what are you trying to say? In LotV you will even be more likly to be on 3 saturated bases because expanding is mandatory. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On February 08 2015 08:35 bluQ wrote: 1 saturated base = 16 + 3x2 workers = 22 workers 3x saturated base = 22 x 3 worker = 66 workers So ... what are you trying to say? In LotV you will even be more likly to be on 3 saturated bases because expanding is mandatory. Assuming you take your third around 8:00 (and that's already asking a lot, it's hard for P to hold 3 bases with few units in PvT for instance) your main low minerals will run out when your third finishes. So optimal saturation looks more like 12 (main minerals) + 2*16 (nat and third minerals) + 12 (gas probes) = 56 to me. I know it's not a big deal, but do you feel the same way ? | ||
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Krobolt
Canada42 Posts
On February 08 2015 08:45 [PkF] Wire wrote:So optimal saturation looks more like 12 (main minerals) + 2*16 (nat and third minerals) + 12 (gas probes) = 56 to me. Why 12 in the main? After 1/2 of the main mines out, wouldn't the optimal saturation be 8? I think it would instead be 14 in the main (8 on minerals, 6 on gas) + 22 in the natural (16 on minerals, 6 on gas) + between 16 and 22 on the 3rd (16 on minerals, no gas if it's earlier or double gas if it's later) for a total of between 52 and 58 (though almost guaranteed 58 once the third has been up a while). | ||
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crown77
United States157 Posts
sounds like there's new info coming out about blizzard's current lotv build soon can't wait to try those out. The version I played doesn't require the cyclones upgrade to need armory; the Herc can be built without an armory just wanted to bring this to your attention. The cyclone will auto use its special even if its not on auto cast Its been so fun to play around with lotv mod thank you^3 so much fun | ||
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elflois
Spain2 Posts
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On February 13 2015 19:25 elflois wrote: Thank you for the mod, its great, questión, its hydralisks range upgrade removed in lotv exp? Beacause un the mod there is no upgrade availible I think Hydralisks are meant to have it automatically now, but I'm not sure, it could be a bug. You can put your cursor over the attack upgrade icon when you have a Hydralisk selected and it will tell you the range of its attack. | ||
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zerge
Germany162 Posts
On February 13 2015 19:42 ZAiNs wrote: I think Hydralisks are meant to have it automatically now, but I'm not sure, it could be a bug. You can put your cursor over the attack upgrade icon when you have a Hydralisk selected and it will tell you the range of its attack. Hydra speed and range is one upgrade i think. | ||
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elflois
Spain2 Posts
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crown77
United States157 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
On February 13 2015 02:23 crown77 wrote: Thank you so much for all the work you guys have done. sounds like there's new info coming out about blizzard's current lotv build soon can't wait to try those out. The version I played doesn't require the cyclones upgrade to need armory; the Herc can be built without an armory just wanted to bring this to your attention. The cyclone will auto use its special even if its not on auto cast Its been so fun to play around with lotv mod thank you^3 so much fun http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/478011-legacy-of-the-void-multiplayer-development-update Are we gonna get a patch or something? | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Patch Notes | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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crown77
United States157 Posts
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dargul
Russian Federation125 Posts
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tn
United Kingdom33 Posts
On March 30 2015 23:26 dargul wrote: Any plans to update mod to match current lotv beta stats? I believe the mod is getting taken down tomorrow as the beta starts. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On March 30 2015 23:59 [LYF] TN wrote: I believe the mod is getting taken down tomorrow as the beta starts. I don't really think so, they seemto be a little bit lost for now. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On April 01 2015 01:39 JaKaTaKSc2 wrote: Still waiting on word from blizzard whether or not we will be allowed to continue. I hope you get permission to keep it alive for few weeks, I get holidays tomorrow but I'm not a VIP I think. BTW, JakaTAK, I'm the one who mailed you today XD. | ||
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ilyasnake
Russian Federation1 Post
Do current mod alpha version (1 april) has the similar like real beta for this day?) How fast you check it? Thx for big deal! Sorry for my englis ^^ | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On April 02 2015 00:07 ilyasnake wrote: Hey, developers ^^ Do current mod alpha version (1 april) has the similar like real beta for this day?) How fast you check it? Thx for big deal! Sorry for my englis ^^ No, it probably won't be updated any more. | ||
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HewTheTitan
Canada331 Posts
Could you guys continue this mod as a community idea test/proof of concept machine? Maybe create some clout for some ideas we want implemented? It's a long shot, but might have an influence. | ||
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DERASTAT
Germany99 Posts
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
Will this custom Alpha be updated for all the guys with no beta key? Still no word from Blizzard I trust Jak and Existor to make lotv more than I trust Blizzard to. Could you guys continue this mod as a community idea test/proof of concept machine? Maybe create some clout for some ideas we want implemented? It's a long shot, but might have an influence. If you trust me more than you trust blizzard, and I trust Blizzard more than I trust myself (on this matter) then by logic, do you now trust blizzard and me equally? I will not be part of this project if it becomes a community idea test/proof of concept machine. I think that making detailed videos on why I think very specific things ought to be looked at will net more success. (for me at least). As soon as I know more, I'll post something! | ||
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eelz
Germany2 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On April 06 2015 23:53 eelz wrote: We really need a map update to the current LOTV version! Pleeaaase! Yes I really want to be able to look at the Adept and find ways to tweak it. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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FreezingAcidRain
Canada18 Posts
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
NeoSchool - LOTV Custom NA: battlenet://starcraft/map/1/255183 EU: battlenet://starcraft/map/2/178821 but only the Herc Upgrade (ARC something) is removed from the TechLab. I will do some small changes, like "Barrier" http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Immortal_(Legacy_of_the_Void) and increased range (6 to 9) for http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Lurker_(Legacy_of_the_Void) and so on. I do not have the time to create a new unit (Adept). And I wait for Jak and a decision (Blizzard). | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
Still no word from Blizzard Sorry, that was the last thing I read. I will start ASAP, but I am not at home right now (holidays). | ||
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eelz
Germany2 Posts
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/18777308/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-april-15-2015-4-15-2015 EU - LOTV Custom Mod: battlenet://starcraft/map/2/172465 EU - Arcade - "Burnt Ice": battlenet://starcraft/map/2/172835 Powered by "LOTV Custom Team" (see first post) - Patch Notes: - Immortal: Barrier no longer recover shields on activation. - Oracle: Players can't manually select invalid targets for Stasis Ward. Stasis Wards ca now be placed on creep. Lock On can deal a maximum of 540 damage (30 missiles) before turning off. - Missile Turret: Now requires Barracks. ZERG - Hydralisk: Muscular Augments upgrade also increases attack range; Grooved Spines removed. - Infestor: Aggressive Mutation ability removed and Neural Parasite added. - Lurker: Base attack range increased to 9; Seismic Spines upgrade removed. - Ravager: Life reduced to 120. - Roach: No longer needs an upgrade to move while burrowed. Glial Reconstitution also increases burrowed speed; Tunneling Claws removed. - Ultralisk: Initial armor reverted to 1; Chitinous Plating increases armor by 4. - Zergling: Adrenal Glands attack speed bonus increased. PROTOSS - Adept: New unit added to the Gateway. - Colossus: Attack damage reduced to 12 (x2). - Disruptor: Purification Nova damage increased to 145. - Immortal: Barrier shield increase returned to 200. - Mothership Core: Time Warp final radius increased to 8; Does not affect units until final size is reached. - Tempest: Disintegration damage increased to 550 over 80 seconds; affected targets can't regenerate. | ||
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Quateras
Germany867 Posts
I freaking loved the idea of that spell, so much better than all the other infestor skills combined, and more fun to use as well. damn shame | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
Just tried the mod. There's no hotkey for the Adept and the unit name is incomplete. Yeah and there is another bug, too: - Press F2 - CTRL-Click all Adepts - All stalkers are selected as well And I guess the last change from 750 Minerals (far patches) to 900 is not implemented, either. But I try to fix it. I am in holidays for another 11 days, but then I want to try to contact the developer and help him with simple changes I can do, like upgrading all maps to start with the right minerals. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
- increased 750 minerals to 900 - removed deprecated AI Logic (Herc, Arc Gun) Where should I upload the new Mod? MediaFire? Ingame with a new name? I try MediaFire now. Very laggy internet connection. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
I tested it shortly. Perhaps someone with a little knowledge (SC2 Editor) can test it. Adept damage point is not up to date I did not change it, but thanks for mentioning it. I cannot upload my version to Bnet, though. Only the original author is able to do that. Here is my changed version: LOTV_custom_Mod_1.13.SC2mod (MediaFire) | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
- Targetting Optics should require armory - Shade have no collision. It should have a seperate collision that is shared by Shades only. - Cyclone auto-attack still bugged. - Hotkeys are generally wrong as well - Shades have a sound actor when casted (though not so important). | ||
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Templarfreak
United States39 Posts
On May 05 2015 21:04 Hider wrote: Other changes: - Targetting Optics should require armory - Shade have no collision. It should have a seperate collision that is shared by Shades only. - Cyclone auto-attack still bugged. - Hotkeys are generally wrong as well - Shades have a sound actor when casted (though not so important). Targeting Optics will be fixed. Adept Collision will be fixed. On May 02 2015 21:04 NeoBlade wrote: Yeah and there is another bug, too: - Press F2 - CTRL-Click all Adepts - All stalkers are selected as well And I guess the last change from 750 Minerals (far patches) to 900 is not implemented, either. But I try to fix it. I am in holidays for another 11 days, but then I want to try to contact the developer and help him with simple changes I can do, like upgrading all maps to start with the right minerals. Adept selection will be fixed. Adept not requiring a Cyber Core will also be fixed. Hotkeys may be wrong, but you can always change them in-game so don't worry about that. I'm making sure all the buttons are set up right to be able to do so. I am also getting a lot of updates from the most recent official LotV patch. The only thing that isn't added yet is the Reaper's new ability. That's going to be tricky. | ||
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Rukis
United States252 Posts
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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TelecoM
United States10668 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
On May 07 2015 17:57 GGzerG wrote: Aren't most people in LOTV beta by now? How long is this project expected to last? Until everyone gets into the LOTV beta? JW If by most you mean that 80% of people aren't, then yeah most of them are in the beta... :D Well from looking at it so far, Beta seems really interesting and more fun than the current HOTS(at least for me) which is why I guess people still want to try these new units and strategies. | ||
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Templarfreak
United States39 Posts
On May 07 2015 06:55 Rukis wrote: @ Templar if you talk to Starbow Developers you could ask them. I beleive the have a similar Reaper ability but it doesnt push them away. The Erupter does for zerg though On May 07 2015 17:50 Xiphias wrote: @Templar. Use the ability from the hybrid reaver from the WoL campaign. He would push units away from him. You can modify that one for the reaper. Looks very similar. Will do, I was thinking something on Hybrid Maar or the Reaver from the secret mission would work for the knockback. On May 07 2015 17:57 GGzerG wrote: Aren't most people in LOTV beta by now? How long is this project expected to last? Until everyone gets into the LOTV beta? JW No, I doubt there's more then like 500 people in the beta right now. MAYBE there's about 500, but I suspect less then that. On May 07 2015 21:06 Hider wrote: Stasis Mine also bugged. It works instantly (no build time). Yeah, I'm not quite sure what to do with that. We'll see what we can do. Also, as I said, everything from the most recent patch except the Reaper ability is in. This includes the mineral count on the far mineral patches. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
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Templarfreak
United States39 Posts
On May 08 2015 03:40 Hider wrote: I forgot to mention a last little thing, but Shades dying also shows up on unit lost tab thing. You can just change Shade cost to 0/0 to adress this. That's really weird. Will fix. The strange part about that, is Soul copy/pasted the units directly from the LotV Beta. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On May 08 2015 03:44 Templarfreak wrote: That's really weird. Will fix. The strange part about that, is Soul copy/pasted the units directly from the LotV Beta. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/34mu7t/adept_resources_lost_bug/ | ||
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
On May 07 2015 17:57 GGzerG wrote: Aren't most people in LOTV beta by now? How long is this project expected to last? Until everyone gets into the LOTV beta? JW Firstly, most implies over 50% of players, where only 20% were added recently (with a tiny number before that of personalities, pros, and blizzcon folk). So I would say most people do NOT have the beta. This project will last likely until open beta or another reliable way to get beta (like pre-ordering) is introduced. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
- Disruptors have no visual timer when "activated". - Widow Mines doesn't show which unit they will target. | ||
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Templarfreak
United States39 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
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FreezingAcidRain
Canada18 Posts
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
On May 13 2015 14:04 FreezingAcidRain wrote: could there be a link to the mod for future released patches? I ask because my editor is bugged for downloading You mean something like this? EU - LOTV Custom Mod: battlenet://starcraft/map/2/172465 EU - Arcade - "Burnt Ice": battlenet://starcraft/map/2/172835 | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
=> LotV-GTAI | ||
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hitsuyosi
9 Posts
It's very fun even play with AI. Here are some bugs I've encountered: - Half of Adept in one control group will fail to teleport. - Mother ship/Core: Mass Recall still cost 100 energy. - Carriers in a control group release all intercepters at one time. - Intercepters should swich to other target after kill current target when carrier in 8-14 range.(Before Lotv, they return if carrier not in 8 range.) - Swarm host still cost 100/200/4. Fly locust is enabled but still can be researched. - Flying locust cannot use Swoop to land manualy. | ||
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AmicusVenti
United States61 Posts
Thanks for you work! | ||
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FreezingAcidRain
Canada18 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9366 Posts
On May 24 2015 13:34 FreezingAcidRain wrote: This is an editor question, how do you add a unit so it shows up under hotkeys? You need to add the unit to abilities for the production facility, and then add the button along with the ability to the command card (of the production facility). | ||
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FreezingAcidRain
Canada18 Posts
On May 24 2015 16:10 Hider wrote: You need to add the unit to abilities for the production facility, and then add the button along with the ability to the command (of the production facility). This sounds confusing, and sounds like adding a unit to be build from a building? I mean adding a unit to options(ingame) => hotkeys and changing hotkeys to preference in game. using ravagers as an example, how was it added? what are the paths in the editor? | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
If everything correct, this patch fully copies latest changes from these two blogs: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/18792770/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-april-28-2015-4-28-2015 http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/19085494/legacy-of-the-void-beta-balance-update-preview-may-11-5-11-2015 | ||
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
Will you add this unit to your Mod? Or will you wait unit the LOTV-Beta is patched? | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
This really is the best thing ever for people who don't have the beta. So many props to the authors. | ||
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Loccstana
United States833 Posts
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
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Sogetsu
514 Posts
On May 29 2015 08:53 Loccstana wrote: how big is the liberator's air attack splash radius exactly? also, how does the ground targeting work, can it target in other liberator's red circles? Actually it can do that (target in other liberator's circles), but it is a bug, and will be fixed soonish (as Blizz stated). | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
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bigpimpin
1 Post
User was banned for this post. | ||
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redviper
Pakistan2333 Posts
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getoffthegames89
United States2 Posts
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Templarfreak
United States39 Posts
Thanks for playing the mod so far, everybody. =) | ||
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.clipartbest.com/cliparts/xTg/MR8/xTgMR8pXc.png) | ||
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NeoBlade
Germany262 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Ventral_Sacs I removed the Requirement (SC2-Editor) for Lair http://www.sc2mapster.com/forums/resources/tutorials/744-data-removing-requirements/ You can see the changes in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/485685-lotv-custom-with-gtai-green-tea-ai Known Bug: You can instantly use VentralSacs, but you can only unload, if you use the wireframe. | ||
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