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On January 09 2016 00:10 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2016 23:50 Zess wrote:On January 08 2016 18:58 Fildun wrote:On January 08 2016 11:58 Zess wrote:On January 08 2016 06:22 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 08 2016 05:56 dsyxelic wrote:
you shouldnt randomly W heroic charges as vlad, I was just mentioning that for ganks or instances you're near a wall. if poppy heroic charges you into your minions you probably could just walk away while Q E ing. vlad should also never be close enough to a poppy that he can get ulted without getting gapclosed on by heroic charge.
I get that vlad shouldn't be able to outduel a poppy, but I don't see what stops him from safely farming besides maybe having to give up a few cs at times he doesn't have a Q vs passive.
also I know champion.gg isn't the end all be all, but it shows vlad's most favorable matchup as poppy with 57% winrate over 1300+ games. I think the matchup largely relies on vlad's fuck up than poppy doing anything so its no wonder most of soloq is having an easy time with that matchup. I think you are selling an empty Heroic charge short with how much it does for poppy in the matchup it's really hard for vlad to get his first item without constant jungle help. and poppy can be tearing up your team while you try to farm up when poppy is teleporting around the map. I also think Winrate =/= lane winrate. Vlad outscales poppy for teamfights, and poppy often struggles to close games on her own. which is why she has a 43% winrate overall. You'd maybe expect the winrate to be above the standard poppy winrate if vlad does so well where poppy is weakest. 1) Vlad can run MS quints perfectly fine, and has in the past 2) Vlad's winrate is also shit but against poppy it is Pretty Great, while Poppy's mediocre winrate is even worse vs Vlad 3) In Vlad vs Poppy, Vlad tends to have a greater gold lead in the laning phase and then it evens out a bit more over time So maybe your results are true for you, where you personally do fine vs Vlad as Poppy, but your logic is terrible. Welcome back PX to TL LoL. 1) Source? Explanation? Reasoning? Anything? 2) According to this: http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=top-matchup&range=weekly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=diamond poppy has a 49.5% winrate against Vladimir in about 500 games. 3) I don't think something as specific as gold leads is something you can really build on with a champion that has been reworked as recently as Poppy. According to champion.gg 94% of the people that played Poppy played her 15 games or less, so this doesn't say anything except that players learning a champion tend to do worse than experienced players. Zess, your logic is fucking abysmal. Perhaps you mistook me for arguing that Vlad counters Poppy, but even going by your matchup table, it still offers very little support for PX's argument that picking Vlad into Poppy is asking to get rekt like Renekton or Riven, because Vlad isn't as bad of a pick against Poppy like her good matchups are, and Poppy is not even close to being one of worst champions to pick Vlad into. It looks like even in this small sample (because champion.gg's sample has too many plat plebs) that Poppy vs Vlad ends up about as well as Poppy vs Fiora (and all 3 have roughly the same overall Diamond winrate according to http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/)So to answer PX's question of why people pick Vlad into Poppy, it's because on average you do good enough, with the worst case probably because playing Vlad mostly involves trying not to die and then turning into a certified-Rekkles-tier POWER MULTIPLIER player later in the game. This is in contrast to his examples of Renekton and Riven, which are in fact terrible champions to pick into Poppy. I was more annoyed that you went full Sufficiency and pulled out irrelevant winrates and faulty datasets, just with the intention to hate on PX. PX also never said that picking Vlad into Poppy was asking to get rekt, just that there are a couple meta champions that do a lot better versus Poppy in lane so he was wondering why they wouldn't just pick them. From my own experience playing the Garen vs Vlad matchup a lot I can say that the matchup can definitely be won and that you're never in any danger of dying or going far behind in cs, so I can imagine that a champion with more sticking power, better harass and a better gapcloser can win the lane pretty hard. And if we're really gonna argue with winrates, most Poppy players are noobs (percentually far more than for Vlad) so even having a 50% winrate with those noobs included means that the matchup is favored for Poppy.
For that lolking statistic, shouldn't you have to compare it to Poppy's overall winrate first? I don't see where you can check that on the site (fuck lolking). The poppy vs vlad matchup there is significantly higher than the one champion.gg so the assumption is that players got better at reworked poppy.
All I see is this: http://www.lolking.net/champions/poppy?region=all&map=sr&queue=1x1#statistics but that counts both jungle/top, and it seems evenly split between the two seeing the summoner spells.
http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/matchups/poppy/top/diamond
http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/poppy/diamond
according to this site, at diamond, poppy's overall top lane winrate is 52.5%. and if you look the winrate/ranked games played, doesn't seem like noob poppy players are bringing her down at all. And then the winrate vs vlad is 50%, around the same ball park as your lolking statistic. But if you compare it to her overall toplane winrate, it's not terrible but not that good either (it being a great matchup for poppy being the original claim made).
now it's not just statistics, obviously we should use some common sense to see the other matchups and see if the stats line up and it seems like it does.
there are a bunch of overlaps between the 'counter' champs on champion.gg and leagueofgraphs.com which make total sense.
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Again you shouldnt look entirely at winrates to say it's a bad matchup. Vlad winning the game has little to do with poppy losing a lane or winning a lane. it's a great matchup for poppy in top lane. Poppy just doesn't win many games on her own, no matter the matchup, which means even if she wins lane, she's gonna have a hard time forcing the game to end in her favor. in the very meta "i pick this champ to win the game" then yeah i guess vlad isn't a miserable pick vs poppy, the way riven is. because vlad can win games from behind, unlike riven. but its certainly not a pick you choose to make your matchup in lane easy or to give the poppy a hard time in lane. Winning lane, especially top lane doesn't correlate as strongly with a won game as it did in the past.
Vlad can die 3 times in lane, and still get to the point where he wins the game 30-40 minutes in. It doesn't make it a good matchup for him just because he can do that. Poppy being weak at closing out a game means Vlad's team can hold off until vlad recovers from getting beaten in lane. It doesn't make poppy any less good at the matchup because the champ itself is bad at closing games post laning.
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I mean it's just that for vlad in particular, his winrate is strongly correlated to how hard his laning phase is since he's a beast past that 10 or so minute mark based on how laning went. When I play vlad, the main question I ask myself before locking him in is "will I survive laning phase or not" since that's basically half of what decides whether you win or not. And for poppy, I do think I will generally survive laning phase even if it may be annoying. For guys like irelia wukong jarvan, I am not that confident that I can.
I think we just disagreed on the definition of 'bad matchup' then. I think it's a good matchup if vlad can reliably scale up and become useful no matter how annoying the laning phase is. poppy lacking the ability to snowball the lane into winning as reliably as wukong/jarvan/irelia is a big reason for why I consider the matchup not that bad for vlad.
but fair point. for comparison I often say lulu vs vlad is a bad laning matchup for vlad, but vlad is still a counter to lulu (well at least before pre-season for sure, idk if it changed now) because even if he gets harassed/loses some farm, its very hard to snowball that against him and he scales up to be stronger.
if thats what you're saying for poppy then yeah I agree. just a bit confused since you said you didn't know why people pick vlad into poppy. Picking a bad 'laning matchup' is totally fine if you know you can prevent the snowball and become more useful later.
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On January 09 2016 03:18 Ansibled wrote:The NA trailer is done a lot better than the EU one I think. + Show Spoiler +
Serious lack of hookers and blow, 0/10 not accurate.
I feel like they could have done a better job on the TSM Doublelift reveal at the end, like a CLG jersey switch into a TSM jersey, or something cool like that.
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I like it. They are fine videos for what they are trying to do. I just wish they made hilarious and campy videos instead. Even OGN fails in this regard recently. I want a more campy/iconic theme, instead of "Creed LCS"
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
Goddamn NA LCS video is way, way better than EU one. I hate you Rito, so much bias.
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On January 09 2016 05:54 739 wrote:
Goddamn NA LCS video is way, way better than EU one. I hate you Rito, so much bias.
It was better because it focused on building hype instead of trying to say we want you back when no one even left (talking about the fan base). Why would anyone (again fanbase) leave when EU had arguably its best split ever? Instead of moaning over who left, they should have built up the new folks.
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Man I gotta say ... Doublelift on the TSM chants even got me a bit hype. And I survived LimpingGoat.
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its so fucked up that fiora can riposte ignite/exh, this champion tilts me
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Subtle brag: Have all champion unlocked
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vi7BE4r.png)
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Alright reading lolesports player bios is actually a really entertaining thing.
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Hi all,
Been out of the game since just around the time Kindred was released. Is there anywhere I can go to catch up on all the preseason changes/find out whats currently OP, or do I just have to go through all of the patch notes?
Best <3
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When in doubt go thunderlords + the penetration mastery. Along with pen runes.
Hp stacking tanks enjoy grasp of the undying mastery too
Other than that OP shit mostly revolves around that give sudden ridiculous bursts, early pen itemization snowballs, or abuse of all of them + stealth (rengar lol)
Interesting stuff to try out before they are nerfed or changed
Rengar, Runes are obviously arpen runes + cdr + whatever AD you want. Starts with at least 17 armor pen at level1
1. Jungle, Skirmisher or the slow one works, ad+cdr, yomumu -> CDR boots -> RFC -> IE -> IE. Can also get an early sheen for other boots.
2. Jungle, Same as above, early tiamat before yomu. Basically whatever you need to oneshot the poor guy.
Both rely heavily on early snowball. You can also consider getting a deadmans somewhere in there but I still think it delays the build too long
3. Tank Rengar top - Popular in korea. Sunfires, deadmans, yeah. Max W early. Be a goddamn unkillable bush terror. Get hex drinker early against mages, get TF when you really want to be the best of both worlds.
If the opponent takes my rengar i pick kindred/poppy/elise. All three can deal with rengar one way or the other. Itemization is key, although you generally want a lot of AP on elise while being tanky too. I prefer elise since shes one of the few who can snipe down Rengar in mid air, making for extremely satisfying kills. Obviously not applicable for tank rengars.
For kindred I go AS quints and arpen reds, exhaust instead of flash, usually duelist but also the occasional chilling smite. standard AD jungling item into a zeal upgrade, then see what happens from there. I have directly went for a frozen heart right after AD jungling item since the opponent team was completely AD assassin based, which allowed me to duel their fed talon easily.
Mundo - Go whereever you want. As tanky as possible. Consider getting the tank hydra for extra on hit. E resets autos now and he gains so much ad off of stacking HP items. can easily burst over 1k in a second with full build at almost 5k hp. Bullshit as hell.
Shyvanna - odd jungle build, get devourers, deadmans, and tank hydra. you can easily get sated at 14 minutes, clear is ridiculously fast. W>E>R>A>Q>Hydra combo. ridiculous amounts of burst, tanky as fck. Easily one of the most broken duelist after the three items. You cant outrun her, cant out duel her, cant kill her easily.
Really hidden OP - Karma jungle. Bset comboed with a lulu mid/top. Cancerous as fck. ganks are amazing, damage is amazing, poke is amazing, speed ups are amazing, survivability top notch errr what am I missing. just get the basic slow smite and get a frost queens claim early, then upgrade the jungling item. You dont benefit from the sheen passive early on, and karma's clear is already fast enough...not that Karma needs to farm the jungle anyways.
After that anything built from NLR is good. Abyssal if needed.
You can tell Im a jungle main :/
Other notable really strong champs are Lissandra top, Quinn in general, anivia in general (gotta be good though), Miss Fortune in general, Graves jungle/top (up close and personal), Fiora top (in really, really good hands shes fucking broken as hell, like legit more broken than a fed riven)
Notable items are Frost Queens Claim (any AP or support can easily use this), boots of swiftness, Corrupting Potion, Yomumu giving 65 AD and 20 arpen now, updated versions of the AD/MR swords, updated Essence Reaver...generally most of the marksmen stuff. are interesting.
But honestly, it doesnt really matter. Push towers early, get objectives early, try to aim for the inhibs before 20 minutes and you win. Most games shouldnt last long if you focus on objectives now. I actually stopped before the Tahm Kench patch and came back a couple months later after the kindred patch, so Im not sure if the small baron was before or after. Either way, its interesting.
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On January 11 2016 14:33 Mondeezy wrote:
Hi all,
Been out of the game since just around the time Kindred was released. Is there anywhere I can go to catch up on all the preseason changes/find out whats currently OP, or do I just have to go through all of the patch notes?
Best <3
Precision/Thunderlords really op'd
unless you heal/shield a lot, then go with the one that gives free resists with heals/shields.
Soraka, Janna, are op'd supports.
Graves is good jungler, meh adc.
MF is S-tier ADC with thunderlords. Lucian is 2nd best.
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On January 11 2016 15:12 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 14:33 Mondeezy wrote:
Hi all,
Been out of the game since just around the time Kindred was released. Is there anywhere I can go to catch up on all the preseason changes/find out whats currently OP, or do I just have to go through all of the patch notes?
Best <3 Precision/Thunderlords really op'd unless you heal/shield a lot, then go with the one that gives free resists with heals/shields. Soraka, Janna, are op'd supports. Graves is good jungler, meh adc. MF is S-tier ADC with thunderlords. Lucian is 2nd best.
Still think alistar/tahm are the most broken supports tho...the amount of bullshit they can pull is ridiculous.
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Graves jungle? Wtf lol.
Thanks guys, you're awesome 
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On January 11 2016 15:41 Mondeezy wrote:Graves jungle? Wtf lol. Thanks guys, you're awesome
Graves is strong as fuck in the jungle now. He take no damage in jungle and his ganks are legit just walking up and casually oneshot someone.
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few pages back in this thread certain people called him trash xD
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yes because that conversation had nothing to do with the duo lane bot position.
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EPT
