On January 08 2016 05:29 ticklishmusic wrote: lul seems like a "lose less" pick rather than a "win more" pick unless you've got a carry that you really want to protect and the enemy team has an assassin
i usually just make sure I have a ward or two on me and a pink every back while I perma push top+harass. poppy can never do anything 1v1. don't even have to polymorph, can just whimsy away and kite.
its a bit annoying if jg constantly comes to clear the pink ward but otherwise if played properly poppy cannot do anything and wont be allowed to TP (if he does he absolutely is at least giving up a tower)
lulu/poppy cannot easily kill each other, but one has the option of harassing nonstop
ive felt the same you did for riven/renek tho. also why is vlad bad vs poppy? I can't imagine that being hard as the vlad. just W the heroic charge if needed, and scale up to be a monster. cant see many situations where poppy is able to do anything vs him.
Poppy is really strong lvl 1 and 2 which helps a lot. But mostly because Vlad doesn't heal much until 7, so you can keep his hp down with your passive alone, and he can't fight for the shield, because vlad doesn't want to get in close. Vlad Doesn't run Movespeed quints, and poppy does for matchups vs ranged champs. If you heroic charge vlad and he pools, he did the damage you were going to do, to himself, and your charge has half the cooldown, so you get to punish it next passive timer. Vlad likes to farm it out and take things late, but poppy applies pressure every 10-15 seconds, which makes vlad uncomfortable. during an all in, poppys ult is often enough to force a pool/flash so vlad doesn't get the full combo of Ult -> Q on landing -> autos until Q is about to be up then a heroic charge -> Q again.
Poppy is very sticky and has multiple ways to halt vlads retreat.
hmm
from how I worked it out, vlad can safely farm the matchup and scale up till gunblade and Q max. vlad's Q has more range than poppy passive, so if poppy is posturing with the passive, vlad can safely get farm with a Q and wait till poppy to use her passive or she'll miss farm. lvl 1/2 vlad is weak in pretty much all matchups so he'll just play it as he always does and let the wave push in a bit early. miss a cs or two if needed.
you shouldnt randomly W heroic charges as vlad, I was just mentioning that for ganks or instances you're near a wall. if poppy heroic charges you into your minions you probably could just walk away while Q E ing. vlad should also never be close enough to a poppy that he can get ulted without getting gapclosed on by heroic charge.
I get that vlad shouldn't be able to outduel a poppy, but I don't see what stops him from safely farming besides maybe having to give up a few cs at times he doesn't have a Q vs passive.
also I know champion.gg isn't the end all be all, but it shows vlad's most favorable matchup as poppy with 57% winrate over 1300+ games. I think the matchup largely relies on vlad's fuck up than poppy doing anything so its no wonder most of soloq is having an easy time with that matchup.
On January 08 2016 05:56 dsyxelic wrote: you shouldnt randomly W heroic charges as vlad, I was just mentioning that for ganks or instances you're near a wall. if poppy heroic charges you into your minions you probably could just walk away while Q E ing. vlad should also never be close enough to a poppy that he can get ulted without getting gapclosed on by heroic charge.
I get that vlad shouldn't be able to outduel a poppy, but I don't see what stops him from safely farming besides maybe having to give up a few cs at times he doesn't have a Q vs passive.
also I know champion.gg isn't the end all be all, but it shows vlad's most favorable matchup as poppy with 57% winrate over 1300+ games. I think the matchup largely relies on vlad's fuck up than poppy doing anything so its no wonder most of soloq is having an easy time with that matchup.
I think you are selling an empty Heroic charge short with how much it does for poppy in the matchup it's really hard for vlad to get his first item without constant jungle help. and poppy can be tearing up your team while you try to farm up when poppy is teleporting around the map.
I also think Winrate =/= lane winrate. Vlad outscales poppy for teamfights, and poppy often struggles to close games on her own. which is why she has a 43% winrate overall. You'd maybe expect the winrate to be above the standard poppy winrate if vlad does so well where poppy is weakest.
On January 08 2016 05:56 dsyxelic wrote: you shouldnt randomly W heroic charges as vlad, I was just mentioning that for ganks or instances you're near a wall. if poppy heroic charges you into your minions you probably could just walk away while Q E ing. vlad should also never be close enough to a poppy that he can get ulted without getting gapclosed on by heroic charge.
I get that vlad shouldn't be able to outduel a poppy, but I don't see what stops him from safely farming besides maybe having to give up a few cs at times he doesn't have a Q vs passive.
also I know champion.gg isn't the end all be all, but it shows vlad's most favorable matchup as poppy with 57% winrate over 1300+ games. I think the matchup largely relies on vlad's fuck up than poppy doing anything so its no wonder most of soloq is having an easy time with that matchup.
I think you are selling an empty Heroic charge short with how much it does for poppy in the matchup it's really hard for vlad to get his first item without constant jungle help. and poppy can be tearing up your team while you try to farm up when poppy is teleporting around the map.
I also think Winrate =/= lane winrate. Vlad outscales poppy for teamfights, and poppy often struggles to close games on her own. which is why she has a 43% winrate overall. You'd maybe expect the winrate to be above the standard poppy winrate if vlad does so well where poppy is weakest.
idk I just don't see the damage with a heroic charge and most likely only 1 part of Q hitting
how hard compared to some other matchups? for ex. I can't see it being harder than vlad vs say riven/renekton/etc. standard gapcloser high dmg tops. I can see it being harder than... shen gnar? if you agree with this then we're just using 'hard' differently.
I agree, but vlad also has a very mediocre winrate at 48%. most of his good winrates come from easy matchups such as ap tops or tank tops with no gapclosers. all his bad winrates come from ad tops with gapclosers. I think it's a safe assumption that his high winrates come from easy lane matchups.
On January 08 2016 06:52 dsyxelic wrote: idk I just don't see the damage with a heroic charge and most likely only 1 part of Q hitting
how hard compared to some other matchups? for ex. I can't see it being harder than vlad vs say riven/renekton/etc. standard gapcloser high dmg tops. I can see it being harder than... shen gnar? if you agree with this then we're just using 'hard' differently.
I agree, but vlad also has a very mediocre winrate at 48%. most of his good winrates come from easy matchups such as ap tops or tank tops with no gapclosers. all his bad winrates come from ad tops with gapclosers. I think it's a safe assumption that his high winrates come from easy lane matchups.
I also don't play poppy as a tank. I play her most like a bruiser i guess? Hexdrinker's Iceborn Gauntlet's Scimitar's. I think i get maybe 1 item that doesn't add to her offense, occasionally getting the dead man's plate when i need to (high physical damage top or mid). Which is probably why i do so well vs vlad. I haven't played vlad top since before gnar existed so i'm not qualified to talk about other matchups. From the Champion.gg items, i don't buy cleaver, tabi or Steraks, and dead man's not until 3rd or 4th item.
Also, really people buy Steraks on poppy? it's literally only a shield. a Locket would do more for her.
When you Charge onto vlad you tend to throw shield -> charge -> auto + Q. Vlad then has to pick between getting out of the Q or fighting back, either way poppy gets another auto and can just walk over to her shield uncontested and absorb all return autos/ tides. Then repeat 15 seconds later. even if they only get 1 part of Q hitting them, you deal the charge base, an auto plus passive bonus damage, half a Q, and an extra auto attack (or 2). Laning there is a nightmare for vlad until he gets jungle help or finishes an item. I've genuinely not had an issue vs vlad until 20 minutes.
I think saving Heroic charge purely for stuns is a mistake against champs like vlad and most ranged champs in general. a free gapcloser is a positive. even if it only deals 75 damage and leads to thunderlords.
PX have you played vs a Garen? I've been playing a lot more League recently spamming him but I haven't seen a single Poppy, so I was wondering whether you could maybe tell me something about the matchup.
On January 08 2016 07:16 Fildun wrote: PX have you played vs a Garen? I've been playing a lot more League recently spamming him but I haven't seen a single Poppy, so I was wondering whether you could maybe tell me something about the matchup.
Only twice. Once i dominated, once i went even. I'm pretty sure the guy i beat up on wasn't a top laner so that game is kind of a wash, he played aggressive at level 1 and i hit 2 first and just stomped him and the other game i died twice in lane because i screwed up a few times, like forgetting i was the villain once LOL but it wasn't an easy matchup even if i didnt make the mistakes.
I do think saving your silence (post 6) to stop my ult would be key at least to getting a kill, because i imagine like the darius matchup i want to avoid the execute ult by disengaging with ult. Garens Passive seems like it'd help a lot in the matchup too, since poppy likes to wear you down over a few waves. I think there would be a bit of a dance between garen trying to wait out until poppy uses her shield to last hit to make it so poppy has to commit or use mana to stop the garen regen. The Reaction burden is probably on garen where its normally on poppy, using his defensive spell to block a lot of poppys burst. instead of poppy looking to stop a dash on reaction with her W. Garen pushes a lot better though, so if worse comes to worse you can farm it out and put pressure on the poppy to last hit well under tower. she's got some awkward last hitting in that situation.
So Ranked becomes much worse for me around January 16th, it looks like. Depending on the order in which they proceed and prob closer to 18th because week-ends.
On January 08 2016 05:56 dsyxelic wrote: you shouldnt randomly W heroic charges as vlad, I was just mentioning that for ganks or instances you're near a wall. if poppy heroic charges you into your minions you probably could just walk away while Q E ing. vlad should also never be close enough to a poppy that he can get ulted without getting gapclosed on by heroic charge.
I get that vlad shouldn't be able to outduel a poppy, but I don't see what stops him from safely farming besides maybe having to give up a few cs at times he doesn't have a Q vs passive.
also I know champion.gg isn't the end all be all, but it shows vlad's most favorable matchup as poppy with 57% winrate over 1300+ games. I think the matchup largely relies on vlad's fuck up than poppy doing anything so its no wonder most of soloq is having an easy time with that matchup.
I think you are selling an empty Heroic charge short with how much it does for poppy in the matchup it's really hard for vlad to get his first item without constant jungle help. and poppy can be tearing up your team while you try to farm up when poppy is teleporting around the map.
I also think Winrate =/= lane winrate. Vlad outscales poppy for teamfights, and poppy often struggles to close games on her own. which is why she has a 43% winrate overall. You'd maybe expect the winrate to be above the standard poppy winrate if vlad does so well where poppy is weakest.
1) Vlad can run MS quints perfectly fine, and has in the past 2) Vlad's winrate is also shit but against poppy it is Pretty Great, while Poppy's mediocre winrate is even worse vs Vlad 3) In Vlad vs Poppy, Vlad tends to have a greater gold lead in the laning phase and then it evens out a bit more over time
So maybe your results are true for you, where you personally do fine vs Vlad as Poppy, but your logic is terrible.
On January 08 2016 05:56 dsyxelic wrote: you shouldnt randomly W heroic charges as vlad, I was just mentioning that for ganks or instances you're near a wall. if poppy heroic charges you into your minions you probably could just walk away while Q E ing. vlad should also never be close enough to a poppy that he can get ulted without getting gapclosed on by heroic charge.
I get that vlad shouldn't be able to outduel a poppy, but I don't see what stops him from safely farming besides maybe having to give up a few cs at times he doesn't have a Q vs passive.
also I know champion.gg isn't the end all be all, but it shows vlad's most favorable matchup as poppy with 57% winrate over 1300+ games. I think the matchup largely relies on vlad's fuck up than poppy doing anything so its no wonder most of soloq is having an easy time with that matchup.
I think you are selling an empty Heroic charge short with how much it does for poppy in the matchup it's really hard for vlad to get his first item without constant jungle help. and poppy can be tearing up your team while you try to farm up when poppy is teleporting around the map.
I also think Winrate =/= lane winrate. Vlad outscales poppy for teamfights, and poppy often struggles to close games on her own. which is why she has a 43% winrate overall. You'd maybe expect the winrate to be above the standard poppy winrate if vlad does so well where poppy is weakest.
1) Vlad can run MS quints perfectly fine, and has in the past 2) Vlad's winrate is also shit but against poppy it is Pretty Great, while Poppy's mediocre winrate is even worse vs Vlad 3) In Vlad vs Poppy, Vlad tends to have a greater gold lead in the laning phase and then it evens out a bit more over time
So maybe your results are true for you, where you personally do fine vs Vlad as Poppy, but your logic is terrible.
Welcome back PX to TL LoL.
1) Source? Explanation? Reasoning? Anything? 2) According to this: http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=top-matchup&range=weekly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=diamond poppy has a 49.5% winrate against Vladimir in about 500 games. 3) I don't think something as specific as gold leads is something you can really build on with a champion that has been reworked as recently as Poppy. According to champion.gg 94% of the people that played Poppy played her 15 games or less, so this doesn't say anything except that players learning a champion tend to do worse than experienced players.
On January 08 2016 07:16 Fildun wrote: PX have you played vs a Garen? I've been playing a lot more League recently spamming him but I haven't seen a single Poppy, so I was wondering whether you could maybe tell me something about the matchup.
Only twice. Once i dominated, once i went even. I'm pretty sure the guy i beat up on wasn't a top laner so that game is kind of a wash, he played aggressive at level 1 and i hit 2 first and just stomped him and the other game i died twice in lane because i screwed up a few times, like forgetting i was the villain once LOL but it wasn't an easy matchup even if i didnt make the mistakes.
I do think saving your silence (post 6) to stop my ult would be key at least to getting a kill, because i imagine like the darius matchup i want to avoid the execute ult by disengaging with ult. Garens Passive seems like it'd help a lot in the matchup too, since poppy likes to wear you down over a few waves. I think there would be a bit of a dance between garen trying to wait out until poppy uses her shield to last hit to make it so poppy has to commit or use mana to stop the garen regen. The Reaction burden is probably on garen where its normally on poppy, using his defensive spell to block a lot of poppys burst. instead of poppy looking to stop a dash on reaction with her W. Garen pushes a lot better though, so if worse comes to worse you can farm it out and put pressure on the poppy to last hit well under tower. she's got some awkward last hitting in that situation.
The way I like to play Garen is usually with short trades, start off with auto-Q-E or just Q-E, then spin back out as the silence wears off. I try to get people to about 35% HP with these trades, at which point I can just flash-Q-E-ignite-R while they're silenced, so you can't really ult Garen away as Poppy in that scenario. Now I don't really know how much damage Poppy does (e.g. can she effectively trade into minions while my Q and E are down) so this might not be the optimal strategy but it seems pretty good to me. Btw, what item build do you go and is your damage only physical or do you go for a build that also includes some magic damage?
The way I like to play Garen is usually with short trades, start off with auto-Q-E or just Q-E, then spin back out as the silence wears off. I try to get people to about 35% HP with these trades, at which point I can just flash-Q-E-ignite-R while they're silenced, so you can't really ult Garen away as Poppy in that scenario. Now I don't really know how much damage Poppy does (e.g. can she effectively trade into minions while my Q and E are down) so this might not be the optimal strategy but it seems pretty good to me. Btw, what item build do you go and is your damage only physical or do you go for a build that also includes some magic damage?
Poppy trades well into minions with her passive up, not as much without it. Her main ability (Q) is bufferable, so it's a pain in the ass to try to trade into her even with a disable. Good poppys should spend almost all of their stun/silence (except of course for super long stuns like high lvl garen Q or CHo gath silence) time in their Q animation. You can expect to take about 300 physical damage in a short trade before lvl 5 or 6, and have 1.5 seconds to respond. Poppy also is surprisingly good at kiting melee champs, because of the slow field on her Q. I don't think garen should be killed vs poppy solo unless he lets himself get harrassed enugh that his passive isn't functional, or he gets himself wall stunned.
Itemwise: i start cloth+5 vs matchups i'm super unsure about that deal physical damage (whether it's because i've never played it, or it's fiora or darius), Dorans Shield against ranged champs, except ryze, where i start Boots. When you can't get a full item, stocking up on longswords isn't a problem, but generally i'll grab a hexdrinker if it's needed, and then finish (or just go straight) iceborn gauntlet, after that I hit up a pickaxe and then finish maw (or if there is no magic damage at all, i grab pickaxe + chain vest)
The goal is to get Iceborne gauntlet, and then any of Maw Scimitar Ghostblade Lord Dominiks Blood Thirster,Dead Man's Plate as needed occasional GA, if the game goes late and you need it.
I've kind of turned into a 1 trick pony with poppy since she got reworked, because it's so much fun. I'd say my current skill level after the season off is mid-high plat, but i've gotten to D4 with playing almost exclusively poppy.
Poppys damage is probably 10-20% magical at most? almost all physical. she only deals magic damage when stopping dashes and with her passive (which is 10+10/level magic damage, on a 20-10 second CD based on lvl) but the Good poppys will be running Armor pen runes, and at least one Arpen item, so poppy will still hurt unless you heavily itemize for armor, in which case the poppy is best served just stunning you for someone else to kill or exploding your squishies depending on the situation.
on a different note, has anyone noticed if sometimes poppys flash doesn't go on cooldown if you try to E someone out of range then flash into range? i can't tell if its a bug or just my not understanding the range properly, but i've had situations that i'm pretty sure i flashed into an E, but my flash wasn't on CD after. because it doesn't play the flash visual effects, but i start dashing well before where i thought i should have.
On January 08 2016 21:53 Fildun wrote: Did you try starting Corrupting Potion? It's pretty broken, I even start it on Garen lol.
I don't enjoy it. because top lane on blue can get away with taking the sentries off blue buff without missing a minion and hitting lvl 2 after the 3 melee minions die, and lvl 3 after the 2nd wave dies. And on red/purple side you can take the tiniest Krug for a 2 minion advantage in XP. With corrupting pot you can't do that as effectively or at all with some top laners. And poppy isn't trading over a long time or consistently over a short period, so much of the pot's cost is wasted if i don't use the extra damage well.
On January 08 2016 05:56 dsyxelic wrote: you shouldnt randomly W heroic charges as vlad, I was just mentioning that for ganks or instances you're near a wall. if poppy heroic charges you into your minions you probably could just walk away while Q E ing. vlad should also never be close enough to a poppy that he can get ulted without getting gapclosed on by heroic charge.
I get that vlad shouldn't be able to outduel a poppy, but I don't see what stops him from safely farming besides maybe having to give up a few cs at times he doesn't have a Q vs passive.
also I know champion.gg isn't the end all be all, but it shows vlad's most favorable matchup as poppy with 57% winrate over 1300+ games. I think the matchup largely relies on vlad's fuck up than poppy doing anything so its no wonder most of soloq is having an easy time with that matchup.
I think you are selling an empty Heroic charge short with how much it does for poppy in the matchup it's really hard for vlad to get his first item without constant jungle help. and poppy can be tearing up your team while you try to farm up when poppy is teleporting around the map.
I also think Winrate =/= lane winrate. Vlad outscales poppy for teamfights, and poppy often struggles to close games on her own. which is why she has a 43% winrate overall. You'd maybe expect the winrate to be above the standard poppy winrate if vlad does so well where poppy is weakest.
1) Vlad can run MS quints perfectly fine, and has in the past 2) Vlad's winrate is also shit but against poppy it is Pretty Great, while Poppy's mediocre winrate is even worse vs Vlad 3) In Vlad vs Poppy, Vlad tends to have a greater gold lead in the laning phase and then it evens out a bit more over time
So maybe your results are true for you, where you personally do fine vs Vlad as Poppy, but your logic is terrible.
Welcome back PX to TL LoL.
1) Source? Explanation? Reasoning? Anything? 2) According to this: http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=top-matchup&range=weekly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=diamond poppy has a 49.5% winrate against Vladimir in about 500 games. 3) I don't think something as specific as gold leads is something you can really build on with a champion that has been reworked as recently as Poppy. According to champion.gg 94% of the people that played Poppy played her 15 games or less, so this doesn't say anything except that players learning a champion tend to do worse than experienced players.
Zess, your logic is fucking abysmal.
Perhaps you mistook me for arguing that Vlad counters Poppy, but even going by your matchup table, it still offers very little support for PX's argument that picking Vlad into Poppy is asking to get rekt like Renekton or Riven, because Vlad isn't as bad of a pick against Poppy like her good matchups are, and Poppy is not even close to being one of worst champions to pick Vlad into. It looks like even in this small sample (because champion.gg's sample has too many plat plebs) that Poppy vs Vlad ends up about as well as Poppy vs Fiora (and all 3 have roughly the same overall Diamond winrate according to http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/)
So to answer PX's question of why people pick Vlad into Poppy, it's because on average you do good enough, with the worst case probably because playing Vlad mostly involves trying not to die and then turning into a certified-Rekkles-tier POWER MULTIPLIER player later in the game. This is in contrast to his examples of Renekton and Riven, which are in fact terrible champions to pick into Poppy.
Perhaps you mistook me for arguing that Vlad counters Poppy, but even going by your matchup table, it still offers very little support for PX's argument that picking Vlad into Poppy is asking to get rekt like Renekton or Riven, because Vlad isn't as bad of a pick against Poppy like her good matchups are, and Poppy is not even close to being one of worst champions to pick Vlad into. It looks like even in this small sample (because champion.gg's sample has too many plat plebs) that Poppy vs Vlad ends up about as well as Poppy vs Fiora (and all 3 have roughly the same overall Diamond winrate according to http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/)
So to answer PX's question of why people pick Vlad into Poppy, it's because on average you do good enough, with the worst case probably because playing Vlad mostly involves trying not to die and then turning into a certified-Rekkles-tier POWER MULTIPLIER player later in the game. This is in contrast to his examples of Renekton and Riven, which are in fact terrible champions to pick into Poppy.
I'd argue that my play of poppy, as someone who has played over a hundred poppy matches, is maybe more representative of how the matchup should be played and how poppy should be built than the aggregate of a bunch of people that play her the first dozen times?
I think poppy isn't a matchup you want to pick vlad into, when poppy isn't played like a tank or juggernaut, like riot told you to do. Vlads typically do worse than even the standard meta picks.
Also fiora destroys poppy. but a lot of people pick fiora who don't know how to play her, because she's popular competitively, and junglers do a good job of camping people who pick fiora. Renekton is ALSO near vlad in winrate on stat sites, but he also gets destroyed by good poppys. If people were picking vlad like i pick poppy, because its fun and they want to play vlad, that'd be one thing. but i've seen insta lock pick 1 vlads when they see i have poppy, which leads me to believe people are just picking them because they see it on a site that its a "counter". and then get destroyed because vlad "beats" poppy in the way that Ryze or Talon "Beat" Ahri. They win the game, not the lane.
Another example of that is mundo, Poppy doesn't struggle in lane, and is stronger in teleports, but Mundo wins games on his own, and poppy doesn't in solo queue. as such mundo is listed as a "counter" when in reality, It's not a way to win lane.
I'd argue that the only reason that matchup is even close to that on those sites, is in part because people play her poorly because she's new and riot told people to play her improperly, but also because poppy really really sucks are closing out games in solo queue. I expect the winrate on those sites to slowly begin to reflect her actual matchups after the "new champ" wave dies off and people actually develop how to play her.
I Think vlads not an awful pick. but it's one of poppys better matchup for sure. Sites also say that Rumble is a good matchup for poppy but. dude. it's not fun.
On January 08 2016 05:56 dsyxelic wrote: you shouldnt randomly W heroic charges as vlad, I was just mentioning that for ganks or instances you're near a wall. if poppy heroic charges you into your minions you probably could just walk away while Q E ing. vlad should also never be close enough to a poppy that he can get ulted without getting gapclosed on by heroic charge.
I get that vlad shouldn't be able to outduel a poppy, but I don't see what stops him from safely farming besides maybe having to give up a few cs at times he doesn't have a Q vs passive.
also I know champion.gg isn't the end all be all, but it shows vlad's most favorable matchup as poppy with 57% winrate over 1300+ games. I think the matchup largely relies on vlad's fuck up than poppy doing anything so its no wonder most of soloq is having an easy time with that matchup.
I think you are selling an empty Heroic charge short with how much it does for poppy in the matchup it's really hard for vlad to get his first item without constant jungle help. and poppy can be tearing up your team while you try to farm up when poppy is teleporting around the map.
I also think Winrate =/= lane winrate. Vlad outscales poppy for teamfights, and poppy often struggles to close games on her own. which is why she has a 43% winrate overall. You'd maybe expect the winrate to be above the standard poppy winrate if vlad does so well where poppy is weakest.
1) Vlad can run MS quints perfectly fine, and has in the past 2) Vlad's winrate is also shit but against poppy it is Pretty Great, while Poppy's mediocre winrate is even worse vs Vlad 3) In Vlad vs Poppy, Vlad tends to have a greater gold lead in the laning phase and then it evens out a bit more over time
So maybe your results are true for you, where you personally do fine vs Vlad as Poppy, but your logic is terrible.
Welcome back PX to TL LoL.
1) Source? Explanation? Reasoning? Anything? 2) According to this: http://www.lolking.net/charts?region=all&type=top-matchup&range=weekly&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=diamond poppy has a 49.5% winrate against Vladimir in about 500 games. 3) I don't think something as specific as gold leads is something you can really build on with a champion that has been reworked as recently as Poppy. According to champion.gg 94% of the people that played Poppy played her 15 games or less, so this doesn't say anything except that players learning a champion tend to do worse than experienced players.
Zess, your logic is fucking abysmal.
Perhaps you mistook me for arguing that Vlad counters Poppy, but even going by your matchup table, it still offers very little support for PX's argument that picking Vlad into Poppy is asking to get rekt like Renekton or Riven, because Vlad isn't as bad of a pick against Poppy like her good matchups are, and Poppy is not even close to being one of worst champions to pick Vlad into. It looks like even in this small sample (because champion.gg's sample has too many plat plebs) that Poppy vs Vlad ends up about as well as Poppy vs Fiora (and all 3 have roughly the same overall Diamond winrate according to http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/)
So to answer PX's question of why people pick Vlad into Poppy, it's because on average you do good enough, with the worst case probably because playing Vlad mostly involves trying not to die and then turning into a certified-Rekkles-tier POWER MULTIPLIER player later in the game. This is in contrast to his examples of Renekton and Riven, which are in fact terrible champions to pick into Poppy.
I was more annoyed that you went full Sufficiency and pulled out irrelevant winrates and faulty datasets, just with the intention to hate on PX.
PX also never said that picking Vlad into Poppy was asking to get rekt, just that there are a couple meta champions that do a lot better versus Poppy in lane so he was wondering why they wouldn't just pick them.
From my own experience playing the Garen vs Vlad matchup a lot I can say that the matchup can definitely be won and that you're never in any danger of dying or going far behind in cs, so I can imagine that a champion with more sticking power, better harass and a better gapcloser can win the lane pretty hard.
And if we're really gonna argue with winrates, most Poppy players are noobs (percentually far more than for Vlad) so even having a 50% winrate with those noobs included means that the matchup is favored for Poppy.
EPT
