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On November 12 2015 16:07 kongoline wrote:
how is ferocity bad lol,pretty much every single mastery there is useful and good, this tree is busted all 3 final keystones are broken, favor of battle stacking on minions is ridiculous
The tree is good for him, obviously. But I was talking about the keystones.
On November 12 2015 16:09 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 16:00 Volband wrote:
What keystone do you use on Jayce (top, or even mid)? Ferocity ones are so bad, and while Intelligence from the cunning tree sounds sweet, and you are even better off with Stormraider or Thunderlord than with any of the Ferocity keystones, you can't just give up 7% armor pen on him.
I was afraid that we'd come to this, when certain keystones are ridiculously strong on certain champions (Warlord's, Windspeaker's, Bond of Stone), the rest are more or less just there for cuteness, and champions who can't benefit fully from the op one will be left at a disadvantage. It's especially awkward looking at keystone masteries when you play with a mage. fervor of battle, deathfire, thunderlord's all seem viable. fervor since it's really easy to get stacks with the transformation. I imagine this will be great for bullying a weak laner. deathfire is pretty straightforward. tons of damage and you have tons of damaging spells. plus jayce gets a decent amount of bonus ad. thunderlord's for the super poke and again, jayce buys a decent amount of bonus ad. deathfire seems like the best one but pretty sure the other 2 has its uses in some scenarios.
Fervor is good in lane, no questions about it, but it falls of super hard on jayce, as you'll be a poker and 100-0-er, so you won't stack anything.
Deathfire is weak. An E-Q combo around lvl5 burnt my opponent for 6 damage per tick. Terrible. Later it was unrecognizeable for the Q poke. I was hoping to see something, ANYTHING with 400+ AD, but nope.
Thunderlord's doesn't make a super poke outside of the laning phase. A Q hit means 1proc out of 3, so you'd have to fire three Qs simultaniously, hit with all of them, and then Thunderlord would be procced.
These are all useless for a Jayce who wants to poke, and I'm yet to meet a Jayce, who doesn't want to do that. They do give a little extra damage for his all-in, but a mid/late game Jayce with muramana done deals crazy single-target damage with his combo, to which the ferocity keystone masteries don't add much.
Now, I believe the fault in your logic is because you view these keystone masteries as free, and anythin that's free should not be complained about. So I see why you might not understand why I complain about Jayce only getting ~50 bonus damage later in the game to his E-Q combo which deals 1 millin damage, when it's free, but then compare it to Warlord's. You have to keep that shit in mind, because that keystone mastery is to be respected. Same goes for Bond of Stone. 8% damage reduction in fights is no laughing matter. Windspeaker's the same, it is huge throughout the whole game.
Meanwhile Jayce can pick a keystone to strengthten his early game, then be literally unusable later on, or pick Deathfire, for that mediocore at best extra damage for his poke.
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United States11393 Posts
On November 12 2015 16:07 kongoline wrote:
how is ferocity bad lol,pretty much every single mastery there is useful and good, this tree is busted all 3 final keystones are broken, favor of battle stacking on minions is ridiculous
btw rage blade is silly right now i even saw irelia rush it and smash the game, jax who rushes it doest lose 1v1 to anyone and pushes waves instantly (lol just thought about poppy with it, she always had problem with wave rage blade seems like a perfect item for her)
it's not just rageblade but the combination of it with fervor mastery and the corrupting potion effect that make it so strong
Man, it just feels so wrong that Vayne doesnt rush bork anymore ie Gosu's shiv -> rapidfire or DLift's IE -> Runaans build.
Also, BT feels pretty worthless with how easily ADC's get sustain now through crit, Mercurial just feels so much better if you do need sustain item.
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Assuming that Jayce E->Q can still do >30% HP on squishies, wouldn't the hit and run one be alright and fairly consistent throughout the game? I know MS isn't really very helpful for poking, but surely it can find use in transitioning from poke->all-in or even on the outskirts of teamfights.
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they even buffed red pot to have more life steal, adc late game with 100% crit and retarded amount of life steal is so silly
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On November 12 2015 16:46 TheHumanSensation wrote:
Assuming that Jayce E->Q can still do >30% HP on squishies, wouldn't the hit and run one be alright and fairly consistent throughout the game? I know MS isn't really very helpful for poking, but surely it can find use in transitioning from poke->all-in or even on the outskirts of teamfights.
Yes, I do believe it the best keystone mastery for him, and it would even have different uses for him. Even in lane when he's ganked early, at lvl3 a (melee) Q+E should deal 30% dmg, but add an (empowered) auto to the equation if we are unsure about it. It can also set him up for a chase if he hits a mid- or close-ranged E-Q, he gets the movement speed buff+he runs through his own gate plus switches to melee and you should catch up to almost anyone for a possible finisher or just a further beatdown.
The problem is, do you really want to give up 7% armor pen? Early game it's fine, Precision is probably better most of the time anyway, as it buffs his melee E too, but when you actually reach the point when your poke hurts like a lot, then I'm pretty sure you'd rather take the 7% armor pen from ferocity. But then you stuck with shitty keystones, meanwhile other (not all, which is the problem here I'm trying to show) champions gets to choose a perfect tree with a perfect keystone.
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the ap keystones look good on paper but they seem pretty lackluster in practice compared to Warlord's.
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On November 12 2015 17:15 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 16:46 TheHumanSensation wrote:
Assuming that Jayce E->Q can still do >30% HP on squishies, wouldn't the hit and run one be alright and fairly consistent throughout the game? I know MS isn't really very helpful for poking, but surely it can find use in transitioning from poke->all-in or even on the outskirts of teamfights. Yes, I do believe it the best keystone mastery for him, and it would even have different uses for him. Even in lane when he's ganked early, at lvl3 a (melee) Q+E should deal 30% dmg, but add an (empowered) auto to the equation if we are unsure about it. It can also set him up for a chase if he hits a mid- or close-ranged E-Q, he gets the movement speed buff+he runs through his own gate plus switches to melee and you should catch up to almost anyone for a possible finisher or just a further beatdown. The problem is, do you really want to give up 7% armor pen? Early game it's fine, Precision is probably better most of the time anyway, as it buffs his melee E too, but when you actually reach the point when your poke hurts like a lot, then I'm pretty sure you'd rather take the 7% armor pen from ferocity. But then you stuck with shitty keystones, meanwhile other (not all, which is the problem here I'm trying to show) champions gets to choose a perfect tree with a perfect keystone.
Assuming lv 18:
For physical alone, precision is stronger against targets with less than 120 armour.
After getting the upgraded LW, precision is better against targets with less than *300 armour.
*I didn't account for LW being only bonus armour now, so it's a little less than this.
So no you're not really missing much, Precision is slightly better than the %pen in most cases, and the differences are more or less negligible at reasonably high armour values.
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It's going to take a little while, but slowly people are going to learn that what is making Cunning good is not the keystones.
It's that the Precision mastery is overpowered.
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On November 12 2015 17:57 TheHumanSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 17:15 Volband wrote:On November 12 2015 16:46 TheHumanSensation wrote:
Assuming that Jayce E->Q can still do >30% HP on squishies, wouldn't the hit and run one be alright and fairly consistent throughout the game? I know MS isn't really very helpful for poking, but surely it can find use in transitioning from poke->all-in or even on the outskirts of teamfights. Yes, I do believe it the best keystone mastery for him, and it would even have different uses for him. Even in lane when he's ganked early, at lvl3 a (melee) Q+E should deal 30% dmg, but add an (empowered) auto to the equation if we are unsure about it. It can also set him up for a chase if he hits a mid- or close-ranged E-Q, he gets the movement speed buff+he runs through his own gate plus switches to melee and you should catch up to almost anyone for a possible finisher or just a further beatdown. The problem is, do you really want to give up 7% armor pen? Early game it's fine, Precision is probably better most of the time anyway, as it buffs his melee E too, but when you actually reach the point when your poke hurts like a lot, then I'm pretty sure you'd rather take the 7% armor pen from ferocity. But then you stuck with shitty keystones, meanwhile other (not all, which is the problem here I'm trying to show) champions gets to choose a perfect tree with a perfect keystone. Assuming lv 18: For physical alone, precision is stronger against targets with less than 120 armour. After getting the upgraded LW, precision is better against targets with less than *300 armour. *I didn't account for LW being only bonus armour now, so it's a little less than this. So no you're not really missing much, Precision is slightly better than the %pen in most cases, and the differences are more or less negligible at reasonably high armour values.
Aah, then 12-18 with the hit'n'run keystone is the way to go for sure, unless you want some super cheesy first blood, from which you are absolutely sure you can snowball your victory.
My heart is at peace. Now it only sucks to be a mage, haha.
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On November 12 2015 18:20 Ketara wrote:
It's going to take a little while, but slowly people are going to learn that what is making Cunning good is not the keystones.
It's that the Precision mastery is overpowered.
On November 12 2015 18:25 Volband wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2015 17:57 TheHumanSensation wrote:On November 12 2015 17:15 Volband wrote:On November 12 2015 16:46 TheHumanSensation wrote:
Assuming that Jayce E->Q can still do >30% HP on squishies, wouldn't the hit and run one be alright and fairly consistent throughout the game? I know MS isn't really very helpful for poking, but surely it can find use in transitioning from poke->all-in or even on the outskirts of teamfights. Yes, I do believe it the best keystone mastery for him, and it would even have different uses for him. Even in lane when he's ganked early, at lvl3 a (melee) Q+E should deal 30% dmg, but add an (empowered) auto to the equation if we are unsure about it. It can also set him up for a chase if he hits a mid- or close-ranged E-Q, he gets the movement speed buff+he runs through his own gate plus switches to melee and you should catch up to almost anyone for a possible finisher or just a further beatdown. The problem is, do you really want to give up 7% armor pen? Early game it's fine, Precision is probably better most of the time anyway, as it buffs his melee E too, but when you actually reach the point when your poke hurts like a lot, then I'm pretty sure you'd rather take the 7% armor pen from ferocity. But then you stuck with shitty keystones, meanwhile other (not all, which is the problem here I'm trying to show) champions gets to choose a perfect tree with a perfect keystone. Assuming lv 18: For physical alone, precision is stronger against targets with less than 120 armour. After getting the upgraded LW, precision is better against targets with less than *300 armour. *I didn't account for LW being only bonus armour now, so it's a little less than this. So no you're not really missing much, Precision is slightly better than the %pen in most cases, and the differences are more or less negligible at reasonably high armour values. Aah, then 12-18 with the hit'n'run keystone is the way to go for sure, unless you want some super cheesy first blood, from which you are absolutely sure you can snowball your victory. My heart is at peace. Now it only sucks to be a mage, haha.
yeah basically I read something ketara said, assumed it was true, and then just double-checked it quickly here before I gave it as advice. Pretty legit! I already have to redo my mastery pages and we're only 1 day in, joy @_@
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Can anyone help me theorycraft the pros and cons of Deathfire Touch and Thunderlord's decree. On which champs you would prefer one over the another and/or in which scenarios you would want to do this
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honestly for melee ap I feel like Ferocity tier 3 is too bad to justify the pretty good t4, so I'm going with 6/18/6 with block and Double edge. swapping between hit 'n run and Thunderlord's. Not sure which one I like more. Part of me feels like Thunderlords is going to overkill in most situations where it will help, but with the amount of life steal in the game at the moment I'm scared of running out of damage.
I might try 12/18 with the bounty hunter stuff but I think block gets you a lot of cs in the pre-first buy phase, it's a talent you've always been able to spec and I feel like I'll be naked without it, I might be being a pussy though.
(talking Kass/Fizz mainly, I think AD assassins probably prefer Warlord/Furvor)
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Actually I kind of got it myself now when I read them more carefully - Thunderword will be better on burst champs and Deathfire on pure pokers like ziggs, ezreal, urgot or pokers that can finish you with burst like lux/syndra, perhaps jayce
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You guys are welcome to look at the Lux thread and then apply my gigantic word salad to other champions.
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On November 12 2015 18:45 Slusher wrote:
honestly for melee ap I feel like Ferocity tier 3 is too bad to justify the pretty good t4, so I'm going with 6/18/6 with block and Double edge.
is tought skin worth sacrificing 2% ls/spell vamp and 2.5% dmg increase ?
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On November 12 2015 18:40 M2 wrote:
Can anyone help me theorycraft the pros and cons of Deathfire Touch and Thunderlord's decree. On which champs you would prefer one over the another and/or in which scenarios you would want to do this
DFT is better against champions you'll be constantly scrapping with. Decree is better against champions late game when you'll have less interaction with them.
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Bearded Elder29905 Posts
If ranked borders are being distributed till 17th, is there any reason to play rankeds?
+ Show Spoiler +
HF dealing with Illaoi on lane, LOL.
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On November 12 2015 23:24 739 wrote:If ranked borders are being distributed till 17th, is there any reason to play rankeds? + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_d0HLhNuCY HF dealing with Illaoi on lane, LOL.
looks like the tentacles can be killed in 2 hits and their attack speed is adequately low, so although she will be pretty annoying obviously, especially when she makes you a vessel, there is counterlplay. But again it looks pretty obnoxious, everytime she hits her E, it means that you are zoned hardcore for I don't knot how much time, you can't neither farm, nor trade, nor harass, there is not even a safe place where you can hide xD
p.s I guess you have to avoid this skill shot more than kog maw a blitz hook xD
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holy shit tryndamere , wtf riot hahahaha
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EPT
