EPTAlso those items are never slot efficient. When you get to the point where you have 3 items+sighstone you have to sell your gold item so you can buy pinks or just keep the active gold item over getting others. It pretty much never comes into play on this role. By the time you become full build you stop needing gold generation so it doesn't make sense to keep it either.
[Patch 5.22] League of Legends General Discussion - Page 21
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Also those items are never slot efficient. When you get to the point where you have 3 items+sighstone you have to sell your gold item so you can buy pinks or just keep the active gold item over getting others. It pretty much never comes into play on this role. By the time you become full build you stop needing gold generation so it doesn't make sense to keep it either. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
But I think thats the way they're intended to be used. I imagine Riot was like fuck it we can't stop junglers from getting Sightstone so lets give them Sightstone upgrades so it won't feel as shitty. Basically what I'm saying is you guys are looking at them as support items and I don't think they're intended to be for supports at all. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
ahaha how does that happen | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On November 21 2015 22:36 Ketara wrote: It is entirely possible that they need more stats to really be used in that way. Or they need a less hectic meta. Or both. But I think thats the way they're intended to be used. I imagine Riot was like fuck it we can't stop junglers from getting Sightstone so lets give them Sightstone upgrades so it won't feel as shitty. Basically what I'm saying is you guys are looking at them as support items and I don't think they're intended to be for supports at all. Just so you're aware, the eyes are built out of support items and riot did say they were meant to give support meaningful choices. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
Also, game pacing isn't actually that difficult to change (it's mostly just a matter of structure health, level and average gold income per stat gained. They just changed all that at once and didn't adjust structure health accordingly/properly), both tank and caster supports could get more real items if the games were longer, sightstones will be bought in more positions before preseason is over (probably top because the relic shield one is a fantastic item low-econ and super tanks will come back in a big way competitively), and none of this stuff has been tested competitively, where support itemization, game pacing, and vision are *vastly* different, so maybe don't declare stuff a complete failure until then, huh. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On November 21 2015 22:36 Ketara wrote: It is entirely possible that they need more stats to really be used in that way. Or they need a less hectic meta. Or both. But I think thats the way they're intended to be used. I imagine Riot was like fuck it we can't stop junglers from getting Sightstone so lets give them Sightstone upgrades so it won't feel as shitty. Basically what I'm saying is you guys are looking at them as support items and I don't think they're intended to be for supports at all. Except since their components include gold gen items you are suggesting a splitpusher or a mid laner invest gold into gold gen and more wards which makes absolutely no sense. Why would I think riot are going to change every one of those items, how tanky towers are and change the gold generation? All of those are experimental changes that are still being tested out. They could decide to take a completely different approach. After the rageblade nerfs I definitely agree the tanks are gonna be back though. Also I don't feel like gold items are needed. Just get bandit. It gives you 10 gold per 5 in 1v1 tank matchups. Done that a few times it is cray. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On November 21 2015 22:36 Ketara wrote: It is entirely possible that they need more stats to really be used in that way. Or they need a less hectic meta. Or both. But I think thats the way they're intended to be used. I imagine Riot was like fuck it we can't stop junglers from getting Sightstone so lets give them Sightstone upgrades so it won't feel as shitty. Basically what I'm saying is you guys are looking at them as support items and I don't think they're intended to be for supports at all. If anything it's the opposite, they nerfed sightstone and buffed trinkets, so junglers wouldn't be able to buy sightstone anymore... Plus they created an entire jungle item purely for warding >.> | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On November 22 2015 00:03 nafta wrote: Also something I realized a while ago that was really funny is that I really wish the old zeke's was back in the game. Now that every ad goes shiv>cannon>ie or er>shiv>ie the lifesteal aura would be so good with how often you have more than 1 person who could use it AND you get more gold income so you can buy it much easier. The 50% crit is basically trash tier now. Who would've thought.... Taric the new hidden op :p | ||
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Coldbolt
United Kingdom70 Posts
On November 21 2015 20:33 KissBlade wrote: Your argument is rapidly devolving into, "any item could be good because items better than it will be nerfed". I think talking about that is a little silly. Again, it bears repeating that Rageblade is only ONE example of a power spike off one item. Heavily agree but in the same time if he has insight to understand that if an item is making such a champion OP and with a nerf to that item, nerfing many of champions in the same time, if one knows what the next best thing is in result of the nerf to an item, that's pretty good but you'd need to explain the whole process to justify the claim. | ||
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Coldbolt
United Kingdom70 Posts
On November 21 2015 23:21 killerdog wrote: If anything it's the opposite, they nerfed sightstone and buffed trinkets, so junglers wouldn't be able to buy sightstone anymore... Plus they created an entire jungle item purely for warding >.> Does seem a lot of wards can still be used early for lanes which doesn't have a support. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On November 22 2015 00:50 Coldbolt wrote: Does seem a lot of wards can still be used early for lanes which doesn't have a support. The problem is if you drop 1k gold on non combat stats, congrats the jungler won't touch you, but the enemy laner will just oneshot you because he has 1k more gold worth of stats. If i could just magically have an eye item for free then of course i'd love it, but there's absolutely no way any position could get away with buying one without it definitely costing them their lane, and likely the game as a result. Like even just buying the actual support items (fotm, spooky ghosts etc) would be infinitely more viable then getting the warding item... | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Like, if you compare eye of the Equinox (probably the best one IMO, tanks can justify grabbing a 500 hp item pretty easy) to FotM, they're pretty similar, but FotM has CDR on it. But if the stats on them are too good there'll be no reason for supports to not take them. So its sort of a careful balancing act. I wouldn't be surprised if they get small stat buffs, but I don't think they'll get big ones. | ||
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Fildun
Netherlands4124 Posts
The items aren't good enough for the first option and since on this patch junglers dont need extra ward sources the item's stats aren't good enough for the second option either. Originally I was really excited on it for Rammus, but then I saw it didn't give CDR or the active so I had no reason to pick it up anymore. Literally getting sightstone + FotM is just the superior option, selling sightstone at 6 items. | ||
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Caiada
United States3052 Posts
I'm talking really marginal stuff though. There's not 1k gold difference in combat stats (and sure as hell not enough to get one-shot), it's more like 20cs or so worth. If it had 600 health, I *guarantee* Mundo and similar tanks would buy it in competitive. The problem with the AP one is it's a terribly inefficient combo of stats (just throw away the regen and give it CDR or AP), and the Talisman one just plain shouldn't exist because nobody will ever buy it. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Eye of the Watchers has a problem where it gives mana Regen but not CDR, and its hard to find builds that want that because your CDR item already has mana Regen and not many champions want two mana Regen items. So they either need to drop some of the Regen and add more AP, or they need to give it CDR. Eye of the Equinox I think is actually pretty good on tanks though. It's just competing with Face of the Mountain which, as it turns out, is still OP. | ||
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Coldbolt
United Kingdom70 Posts
On November 22 2015 01:30 killerdog wrote: The problem is if you drop 1k gold on non combat stats, congrats the jungler won't touch you, but the enemy laner will just oneshot you because he has 1k more gold worth of stats. If i could just magically have an eye item for free then of course i'd love it, but there's absolutely no way any position could get away with buying one without it definitely costing them their lane, and likely the game as a result. Like even just buying the actual support items (fotm, spooky ghosts etc) would be infinitely more viable then getting the warding item... Right so basically it's about getting pink wards now and then sightstone when you leave the laning phase it seems. Fair does. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Coldbolt
United Kingdom70 Posts
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
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