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If you've played around on the new patch and have some secret TL-op builds we should try out, post about them here! http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-strategy/498168-patch-522-what-is-marksman-gameplay-discussion | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Well back in the day you didn't get any items other than gold items to fund your wards and oracle. Some people prefer that style of supporting. Having both options seems pretty good to me. Also you get a lot more gold as a support overall in this new season. Dunno how can you just overlook that. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
I dont understand your point. You are complaining that you are weaker and you can't carry yet say you are talking about competetive. Nobody buys items on support in competetive already. How would this change anything? In fact with the increased gold gain this season I expect supports to get a lot more items compared to before. Also with being unable to buy sight wards expect to see a lot more early gold item upgrades which never happened in last season and would increase gold gain even more. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Maybe I am biased because I always thought that sighstone was too good and now it feels like you have to have some brain cells to properly vision control. I expect ruby sighstone to be the item that everyone goes for because regen isn't really all that useful with the new masteries and as a bonus it works better with getting active items. Also sighstone not being as good helps because now junglers can't just spend 800 gold for infinite wards. This change was more made for the jungle than support overall imo. The fact that you could ward all 3 standart paths of ganks after you buy sighstone then the other guy clears one and you just place the next ward is super cheap and stupid imo. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
What is your teamcomp? Different teams need different amount( or need multiple pinks over regular wards) of vision. What jungler do you have? Some junglers are going to be getting the ward smite and keeping the yellow trinket just to cover for you being a weak warder like brand so you can focus on other stuff. What type of threats does the enemy have? More wards are not as needed as you make it out to be if you properly ward. If you are the only person warding it is worse yes but it is the same for the other team. In competetive I am not sure how it will go because the game is such a clown fiesta with the preseason and rageblade still in the game but after some more changes it should get to a good spot. I definitely agree the sighstone upgrades are boring but they are practical in some situations which I think is fine. The game having less vision overall unless everyone tries doing it is good. Let's be real league has always had a problem with vision being too easy to get. Although the new blue trinket really needs some nerfs. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
If you do a gold efficiency to stats comparison, they have near literally the same stats as the completed support items for the same gold, just without the active. You can check out the Lux thread for an analysis of that. What you're doing is trading the active for more slot efficiency. There's two cases where you might do this. The first is when you're fed on support and want to take a selfish build. This is probably a better option for AP supports like Brand than it is for tanks, and it is a meaningful choice because you have to choose slot efficiency over stat efficiency and one is not necessarily more correct than the other. The more interesting case for getting an Eye item is if you're not a support. Look at the eye items on a jungle Nunu, or a top lane split pusher, or even on a utility mid like Lulu and you'll see a lot of opportunity to change playstyle or even team strategy. If your jungle Nunu is running Trackers smite and your mid lane Lulu is running Eye of the Watchers, suddenly your support Brand doesn't really need to build a Sightstone at all and can build Dark Seal and Haunting Guise and just shit on the enemy duo. If your top lane duellist runs ignite and gets an eye item + blue trinket, he can turn his chosen split push lane into a Christmas tree while building to outduel people. Think about Eye of the Equinox on like, ghost flash Vladimir. That is some cancerous split pushing right there. I'm not gonna say the Eye items are perfect, they may need to be tweaked a little. But when I first saw them I definitely didn't think they were items for support. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On November 21 2015 16:56 Ketara wrote: I think you guys are missing the intended cases of the Eye items entirely. If you do a gold efficiency to stats comparison, they have near literally the same stats as the completed support items for the same gold, just without the active. You can check out the Lux thread for an analysis of that. What you're doing is trading the active for more slot efficiency. There's two cases where you might do this. The first is when you're fed on support and want to take a selfish build. This is probably a better option for AP supports like Brand than it is for tanks, and it is a meaningful choice because you have to choose slot efficiency over stat efficiency and one is not necessarily more correct than the other. The more interesting case for getting an Eye item is if you're not a support. Look at the eye items on a jungle Nunu, or a top lane split pusher, or even on a utility mid like Lulu and you'll see a lot of opportunity to change playstyle or even team strategy. If your jungle Nunu is running Trackers smite and your mid lane Lulu is running Eye of the Watchers, suddenly your support Brand doesn't really need to build a Sightstone at all and can build Dark Seal and Haunting Guise and just shit on the enemy duo. If your top lane duellist runs ignite and gets an eye item + blue trinket, he can turn his chosen split push lane into a Christmas tree while building to outduel people. Think about Eye of the Equinox on like, ghost flash Vladimir. That is some cancerous split pushing right there. I'm not gonna say the Eye items are perfect, they may need to be tweaked a little. But when I first saw them I definitely didn't think they were items for support. That's you discounting that this patch mid game power spikes are so meaningful that there is no way you would sac that for an eye. There are champions that can literally buy guinsoos and just straight up go to town. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Remember Relic Shields? | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On November 21 2015 18:27 Ketara wrote: That's just a product of preseason and wont continue. Talking about it is a little silly. Be patient. Remember Relic Shields? Or Cleavers. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
On November 21 2015 18:27 Ketara wrote: That's just a product of preseason and wont continue. Talking about it is a little silly. Be patient. Remember Relic Shields? Relic Shields was a day one wonder that everyone caught on to right away. If you were playing the game right now, you'd realize that Eye items are no where close to that effect. You do not know how fast games are ending and how fast pushes occur. If anything is a little silly, it's the theorycrafting on this idea when actual gameplay experience would dictate the exact opposite. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On November 21 2015 16:56 Ketara wrote: I think you guys are missing the intended cases of the Eye items entirely. No we're not. We're saying "that item is obviously a slot efficiency thing, pity no game goes past 3 items." It's not like there's one clear gimmick that's making games end faster, just all the changes combined each made games slightly faster, to the point where right now, if you get a triple kill at 12 minutes, getting inhib tower is a very real possibility. This is definitely one of those cases where however you try and theory craft, the reality of the game is just that unless they make very drastic changes to game pacing, it's a completely worthless item. If anything's silly, it's trying to make the discussion about some theoretical game state which is nothing like what the game is actually like right now, and it's only going to get worse if the minion changes go through. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
And I don't think I compared them to preseason Relic shield, kissblade? I compared rageblade to it. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
Similarly, if you're comparing Rageblade to Relic Shield (in which your response was rather ambiguous to interpret in the first place), then that's rather silly since Rageblade is nowhere as nebulous as Relic Shield was. It's simply an example of an item that gives a very real powerspike as opposed to buying a worthless laning item like Eye for a jungle/solo laner slot. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Again I'm not saying the eye items are great. I think they could probably use slight tweaks. But saying they are useless because other play is currently blatantly overpowered is strange, because the blatantly overpowered play is blatantly going to get nerfed inside of the next patch or two. If they added 20 AD to longsword, that would make longsword overpowered, but it wouldn't mean pickaxe is a bad item. Sure it would be in an immediate sense, but not after really obvious changes occur. Basically don't worry, be happy. Doo doo doo doo da doo da doo da doo da doo. | ||
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KissBlade
United States5718 Posts
Again, it bears repeating that Rageblade is only ONE example of a power spike off one item. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
Not to mention how blue trinkets have changed lategame vision entirely. Unless you're suggesting a top laner will buy it lategame as his 4th/5th item, and that would be a whole new level of dumb :p, I don't see any point where anyone would want to buy one of these items. | ||
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padfoota
Taiwan1571 Posts
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