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On November 02 2015 02:38 Slaughter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2015 22:37 killerdog wrote:On November 01 2015 21:33 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 20:53 LaNague wrote:hey Plexa i found another use:  C L G btw after reading the CLG announcement, i dont think that DL left them, he most certainly got kicked by someone being very vindictive. all round baby On November 01 2015 21:05 killerdog wrote:On November 01 2015 20:43 Mensol wrote:
Doublelift probably asked HSGG to kick him because he once said im never going to leave CLG unless i get kicked. But why would he do it? Even just an ambiguous "parting ways" reason would do less damage to his brand then openly kicking the main player "clg" fans are actually a fan of. He just committed brand seppuku On November 01 2015 19:04 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 19:00 DystopiaX wrote:On November 01 2015 18:48 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 18:18 Sent. wrote:
CLG is donezo and TSM Doublelift sounds crazier than EG Huk, wow I think this move will be about as successful as EG.Huk Hard to tell what will happen with TSM seeing as there are 3 positions left open lol I don't think adding more personalities/strong opinions to TSM is a recipe for success regardless of who else they pick up  Well having quiet/submissive people wasn't working either. Besides, if they get good players for the other roles (zion/impact, rush, a decent support) there aren't really any NA teams that could beat that. C9 is rip, TIP is rip, TL seems rip, clg is VERY rip. There isn't anyone to compete with TSM for good players, and there won't be anyone who can beat them once lcs starts again :o The on paper roster analysis really doesn't indicate team performance. Pob joining CLG seemed like a meh move but turned out to be one of the great pickups of the summer split. Roccat "won the preseason trades" ended up middle of the pack. Fnatic were rip, turned out to be god tier. A lot of those non-skill factors have played a significant role in determining the teams success. POB joining clg was clg replacing their biggets problem (link) with a player who wasn't terrible... People weren't hugely hyped for pobelter specifically because almost any decent mid laner would have been a massive improvement, And it was hardly the thing that magically won them the season either. Roccat are playing in a region which had multiple good teams, rather then the ruins of NA where pretty much ever even semi decent team has been gutted except TSM. Your only basis for TSM not being the best team seems to be "FNC might happen again," which is hardly robust analysis. If anything TSM's biggest issue has been the fact that all their players (including bjergsen) are way too submissive and introverted to be the voice of the team. Double lift definitely doesn't have this issue. As long as regi can tone down the ego enough to not stab double in his sleep after an argument, I think this looks like one of the best lineup changes that could have happened for TSM, and they still have two spots open for non residents, so they can pretty much pimp the rest of the lineup however they want. Wat. Wasn't a big issue last split for TSM is that Bejrg was too vocal and dominating team decision making (because everyone else was pretty quiet)?
The problem with TSM was shotcalling in general. Bjerg isn't the best shotcaller and the team didn't do anything to make it easy on him. If a top call went bad Dyrus would tilt bit by bit and not buy in on the calls and sometimes get passive aggressive about it. This caused Bjergsen to make top calls suggestively instead of assertively. The difference between "Can we TP here?" and "TP now." is big. Santorin was getting pulled around the map by his side lanes. If a lane wasn't going well and Santorin would go to relieve pressure the laner would tell him to not come. Then after shading away from, say botlane, he'd be called down there for an urgent situation but be too far to get there. As a result he spent a lot of time in no man's land, which added to the perceived passivity. It took a lot of his movement and pathing out of his hands and he was too mild mannered to just put his foot down. Dyrus and Lustboy are both men of little words, so they were less likely to make calls.
Bjergsen being vocal in team discussions causing issues is bullshit Monte pulled out of his TSM hating butt and acting like he knew what was going on from a half hour show that covers at least a week.
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Doublift says on stream that they made a decision overnight, texted Doublelift at 2 AM and said he was off the team.
He says he believes CLG thinks this is the best decision.
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On November 02 2015 03:49 iCanada wrote:
Doublift says on stream that they made a decision overnight, texted Doublelift at 2 AM and said he was off the team.
He says he believes CLG thinks this is the best decision.
Hes just being nice.
CLG has no idea what they are doing lol
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hotshot was probably drunk when he texted that
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who the fuck fires people in the night
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On November 02 2015 05:39 LaNague wrote:
who the fuck fires people in the night
Counter-logic
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doublelift with more viewers than lck finals ~~
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On November 02 2015 06:28 AsnSensation wrote:
doublelift with more viewers than lck finals ~~
Wait really? How many did it get?
More viewers than WCS makes me sad though.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On November 02 2015 06:31 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 06:28 AsnSensation wrote:
doublelift with more viewers than lck finals ~~ Wait really? How many did it get? More viewers than WCS makes me sad though.
He was legit on brink of breaking 100k.
Doublelift + TSM buff is probably as much as you can get as Western player.
I think, Wickd/sOAZ 1v1 record is still highest for personal streams?
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On November 02 2015 06:31 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 06:28 AsnSensation wrote:
doublelift with more viewers than lck finals ~~ Wait really? How many did it get? More viewers than WCS makes me sad though.
peaked around 93 or 94k I think. Ogn finals rarely break 100k -.-
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On November 01 2015 10:49 St3MoR wrote:wtf is this shit, TSM? should we expect TSM aphromoo now? btw when he says I find that pretty shocking, coming from the guy who only last summer won something for the first time
truth. in either case he has a better opportunity at least winning NA with TSM than he does with CLG. NA will never be up to snuff.
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On November 02 2015 03:24 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 02:38 Slaughter wrote:On November 01 2015 22:37 killerdog wrote:On November 01 2015 21:33 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 20:53 LaNague wrote:hey Plexa i found another use: C L G btw after reading the CLG announcement, i dont think that DL left them, he most certainly got kicked by someone being very vindictive. all round baby On November 01 2015 21:05 killerdog wrote:On November 01 2015 20:43 Mensol wrote:
Doublelift probably asked HSGG to kick him because he once said im never going to leave CLG unless i get kicked. But why would he do it? Even just an ambiguous "parting ways" reason would do less damage to his brand then openly kicking the main player "clg" fans are actually a fan of. He just committed brand seppuku On November 01 2015 19:04 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 19:00 DystopiaX wrote:On November 01 2015 18:48 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 18:18 Sent. wrote:
CLG is donezo and TSM Doublelift sounds crazier than EG Huk, wow I think this move will be about as successful as EG.Huk Hard to tell what will happen with TSM seeing as there are 3 positions left open lol I don't think adding more personalities/strong opinions to TSM is a recipe for success regardless of who else they pick up Well having quiet/submissive people wasn't working either. Besides, if they get good players for the other roles (zion/impact, rush, a decent support) there aren't really any NA teams that could beat that. C9 is rip, TIP is rip, TL seems rip, clg is VERY rip. There isn't anyone to compete with TSM for good players, and there won't be anyone who can beat them once lcs starts again :o The on paper roster analysis really doesn't indicate team performance. Pob joining CLG seemed like a meh move but turned out to be one of the great pickups of the summer split. Roccat "won the preseason trades" ended up middle of the pack. Fnatic were rip, turned out to be god tier. A lot of those non-skill factors have played a significant role in determining the teams success. POB joining clg was clg replacing their biggets problem (link) with a player who wasn't terrible... People weren't hugely hyped for pobelter specifically because almost any decent mid laner would have been a massive improvement, And it was hardly the thing that magically won them the season either. Roccat are playing in a region which had multiple good teams, rather then the ruins of NA where pretty much ever even semi decent team has been gutted except TSM. Your only basis for TSM not being the best team seems to be "FNC might happen again," which is hardly robust analysis. If anything TSM's biggest issue has been the fact that all their players (including bjergsen) are way too submissive and introverted to be the voice of the team. Double lift definitely doesn't have this issue. As long as regi can tone down the ego enough to not stab double in his sleep after an argument, I think this looks like one of the best lineup changes that could have happened for TSM, and they still have two spots open for non residents, so they can pretty much pimp the rest of the lineup however they want. Wat. Wasn't a big issue last split for TSM is that Bejrg was too vocal and dominating team decision making (because everyone else was pretty quiet)? The problem with TSM was shotcalling in general. Bjerg isn't the best shotcaller and the team didn't do anything to make it easy on him. If a top call went bad Dyrus would tilt bit by bit and not buy in on the calls and sometimes get passive aggressive about it. This caused Bjergsen to make top calls suggestively instead of assertively. The difference between "Can we TP here?" and "TP now." is big. Santorin was getting pulled around the map by his side lanes. If a lane wasn't going well and Santorin would go to relieve pressure the laner would tell him to not come. Then after shading away from, say botlane, he'd be called down there for an urgent situation but be too far to get there. As a result he spent a lot of time in no man's land, which added to the perceived passivity. It took a lot of his movement and pathing out of his hands and he was too mild mannered to just put his foot down. Dyrus and Lustboy are both men of little words, so they were less likely to make calls. Bjergsen being vocal in team discussions causing issues is bullshit Monte pulled out of his TSM hating butt and acting like he knew what was going on from a half hour show that covers at least a week.
TSM's problems go way beyond shout calling. They need improvement across the board and that's one of the reasons they're clearing house.
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DL is so close to having 100k viewers.
he is 37k viewers away from beating Wickd's record where he was playing 1v1 against sOAZ for allstar spot tehehe.
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On November 02 2015 07:05 Mensol wrote:
DL is so close to having 100k viewers.
he is 37k viewers away from beating Wickd's record where he was playing 1v1 against sOAZ for allstar spot tehehe.
He is sitting at 101k right now.
The CLG brand suicide is hilarious to me.
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WELL DAMN...I did say in other threads that I wanted some streamer personalities to fill in the holes in TSM, but I definitely didn't expect this.
I0/10 for TSM, I'm a fan again.
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On November 02 2015 06:55 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 03:24 Gahlo wrote:On November 02 2015 02:38 Slaughter wrote:On November 01 2015 22:37 killerdog wrote:On November 01 2015 21:33 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 20:53 LaNague wrote:hey Plexa i found another use: C L G btw after reading the CLG announcement, i dont think that DL left them, he most certainly got kicked by someone being very vindictive. all round baby On November 01 2015 21:05 killerdog wrote:On November 01 2015 20:43 Mensol wrote:
Doublelift probably asked HSGG to kick him because he once said im never going to leave CLG unless i get kicked. But why would he do it? Even just an ambiguous "parting ways" reason would do less damage to his brand then openly kicking the main player "clg" fans are actually a fan of. He just committed brand seppuku On November 01 2015 19:04 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 19:00 DystopiaX wrote:On November 01 2015 18:48 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 18:18 Sent. wrote:
CLG is donezo and TSM Doublelift sounds crazier than EG Huk, wow I think this move will be about as successful as EG.Huk Hard to tell what will happen with TSM seeing as there are 3 positions left open lol I don't think adding more personalities/strong opinions to TSM is a recipe for success regardless of who else they pick up Well having quiet/submissive people wasn't working either. Besides, if they get good players for the other roles (zion/impact, rush, a decent support) there aren't really any NA teams that could beat that. C9 is rip, TIP is rip, TL seems rip, clg is VERY rip. There isn't anyone to compete with TSM for good players, and there won't be anyone who can beat them once lcs starts again :o The on paper roster analysis really doesn't indicate team performance. Pob joining CLG seemed like a meh move but turned out to be one of the great pickups of the summer split. Roccat "won the preseason trades" ended up middle of the pack. Fnatic were rip, turned out to be god tier. A lot of those non-skill factors have played a significant role in determining the teams success. POB joining clg was clg replacing their biggets problem (link) with a player who wasn't terrible... People weren't hugely hyped for pobelter specifically because almost any decent mid laner would have been a massive improvement, And it was hardly the thing that magically won them the season either. Roccat are playing in a region which had multiple good teams, rather then the ruins of NA where pretty much ever even semi decent team has been gutted except TSM. Your only basis for TSM not being the best team seems to be "FNC might happen again," which is hardly robust analysis. If anything TSM's biggest issue has been the fact that all their players (including bjergsen) are way too submissive and introverted to be the voice of the team. Double lift definitely doesn't have this issue. As long as regi can tone down the ego enough to not stab double in his sleep after an argument, I think this looks like one of the best lineup changes that could have happened for TSM, and they still have two spots open for non residents, so they can pretty much pimp the rest of the lineup however they want. Wat. Wasn't a big issue last split for TSM is that Bejrg was too vocal and dominating team decision making (because everyone else was pretty quiet)? The problem with TSM was shotcalling in general. Bjerg isn't the best shotcaller and the team didn't do anything to make it easy on him. If a top call went bad Dyrus would tilt bit by bit and not buy in on the calls and sometimes get passive aggressive about it. This caused Bjergsen to make top calls suggestively instead of assertively. The difference between "Can we TP here?" and "TP now." is big. Santorin was getting pulled around the map by his side lanes. If a lane wasn't going well and Santorin would go to relieve pressure the laner would tell him to not come. Then after shading away from, say botlane, he'd be called down there for an urgent situation but be too far to get there. As a result he spent a lot of time in no man's land, which added to the perceived passivity. It took a lot of his movement and pathing out of his hands and he was too mild mannered to just put his foot down. Dyrus and Lustboy are both men of little words, so they were less likely to make calls. Bjergsen being vocal in team discussions causing issues is bullshit Monte pulled out of his TSM hating butt and acting like he knew what was going on from a half hour show that covers at least a week. TSM's problems go way beyond shout calling. They need improvement across the board and that's one of the reasons they're clearing house.
Clearly. Still, that roster was capable of doing pretty decent things for a Western team(IEM Kato) when it was working properly. Communication and shotcalling, while not the sole problem, was a majority of the problem for a roster that should have been more than the sum of its parts.
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On November 02 2015 07:57 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 06:55 StarStruck wrote:On November 02 2015 03:24 Gahlo wrote:On November 02 2015 02:38 Slaughter wrote:On November 01 2015 22:37 killerdog wrote:On November 01 2015 21:33 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 20:53 LaNague wrote:hey Plexa i found another use: C L G btw after reading the CLG announcement, i dont think that DL left them, he most certainly got kicked by someone being very vindictive. all round baby On November 01 2015 21:05 killerdog wrote:On November 01 2015 20:43 Mensol wrote:
Doublelift probably asked HSGG to kick him because he once said im never going to leave CLG unless i get kicked. But why would he do it? Even just an ambiguous "parting ways" reason would do less damage to his brand then openly kicking the main player "clg" fans are actually a fan of. He just committed brand seppuku On November 01 2015 19:04 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 19:00 DystopiaX wrote:On November 01 2015 18:48 Plexa wrote:
[quote]
I think this move will be about as successful as EG.Huk Hard to tell what will happen with TSM seeing as there are 3 positions left open lol I don't think adding more personalities/strong opinions to TSM is a recipe for success regardless of who else they pick up Well having quiet/submissive people wasn't working either. Besides, if they get good players for the other roles (zion/impact, rush, a decent support) there aren't really any NA teams that could beat that. C9 is rip, TIP is rip, TL seems rip, clg is VERY rip. There isn't anyone to compete with TSM for good players, and there won't be anyone who can beat them once lcs starts again :o The on paper roster analysis really doesn't indicate team performance. Pob joining CLG seemed like a meh move but turned out to be one of the great pickups of the summer split. Roccat "won the preseason trades" ended up middle of the pack. Fnatic were rip, turned out to be god tier. A lot of those non-skill factors have played a significant role in determining the teams success. POB joining clg was clg replacing their biggets problem (link) with a player who wasn't terrible... People weren't hugely hyped for pobelter specifically because almost any decent mid laner would have been a massive improvement, And it was hardly the thing that magically won them the season either. Roccat are playing in a region which had multiple good teams, rather then the ruins of NA where pretty much ever even semi decent team has been gutted except TSM. Your only basis for TSM not being the best team seems to be "FNC might happen again," which is hardly robust analysis. If anything TSM's biggest issue has been the fact that all their players (including bjergsen) are way too submissive and introverted to be the voice of the team. Double lift definitely doesn't have this issue. As long as regi can tone down the ego enough to not stab double in his sleep after an argument, I think this looks like one of the best lineup changes that could have happened for TSM, and they still have two spots open for non residents, so they can pretty much pimp the rest of the lineup however they want. Wat. Wasn't a big issue last split for TSM is that Bejrg was too vocal and dominating team decision making (because everyone else was pretty quiet)? The problem with TSM was shotcalling in general. Bjerg isn't the best shotcaller and the team didn't do anything to make it easy on him. If a top call went bad Dyrus would tilt bit by bit and not buy in on the calls and sometimes get passive aggressive about it. This caused Bjergsen to make top calls suggestively instead of assertively. The difference between "Can we TP here?" and "TP now." is big. Santorin was getting pulled around the map by his side lanes. If a lane wasn't going well and Santorin would go to relieve pressure the laner would tell him to not come. Then after shading away from, say botlane, he'd be called down there for an urgent situation but be too far to get there. As a result he spent a lot of time in no man's land, which added to the perceived passivity. It took a lot of his movement and pathing out of his hands and he was too mild mannered to just put his foot down. Dyrus and Lustboy are both men of little words, so they were less likely to make calls. Bjergsen being vocal in team discussions causing issues is bullshit Monte pulled out of his TSM hating butt and acting like he knew what was going on from a half hour show that covers at least a week. TSM's problems go way beyond shout calling. They need improvement across the board and that's one of the reasons they're clearing house. Clearly. Still, that roster was capable of doing pretty decent things for a Western team(IEM Kato) when it was working properly. Communication and shotcalling, while not the sole problem, was a majority of the problem for a roster that should have been more than the sum of its parts.
The teams that went to IEM Katowice weren't particularly good at the time. I mean, GE Tigers lost to a new WE line up that went on to be butchered in the LPL, Yoe FW wasn't solid yet. And CJ... It was nice to see TSM win, but it wasn't exactly a stacked tournament.
Point is, that's not a good example to showcase how good TSM is when they're functioning, because the real Western powerhouses solidified later during the year. TSM got blown up by CLG, and teams like Fnatic and OG would destroy them as well. Good team work does not replace talent, and Dyrus was not able to stand up the the better opponents, let alone the best.
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On November 02 2015 08:35 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2015 07:57 Gahlo wrote:On November 02 2015 06:55 StarStruck wrote:On November 02 2015 03:24 Gahlo wrote:On November 02 2015 02:38 Slaughter wrote:On November 01 2015 22:37 killerdog wrote:On November 01 2015 21:33 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 20:53 LaNague wrote:hey Plexa i found another use: C L G btw after reading the CLG announcement, i dont think that DL left them, he most certainly got kicked by someone being very vindictive. all round baby On November 01 2015 21:05 killerdog wrote:On November 01 2015 20:43 Mensol wrote:
Doublelift probably asked HSGG to kick him because he once said im never going to leave CLG unless i get kicked. But why would he do it? Even just an ambiguous "parting ways" reason would do less damage to his brand then openly kicking the main player "clg" fans are actually a fan of. He just committed brand seppuku On November 01 2015 19:04 Plexa wrote:On November 01 2015 19:00 DystopiaX wrote:
[quote]
Hard to tell what will happen with TSM seeing as there are 3 positions left open lol I don't think adding more personalities/strong opinions to TSM is a recipe for success regardless of who else they pick up Well having quiet/submissive people wasn't working either. Besides, if they get good players for the other roles (zion/impact, rush, a decent support) there aren't really any NA teams that could beat that. C9 is rip, TIP is rip, TL seems rip, clg is VERY rip. There isn't anyone to compete with TSM for good players, and there won't be anyone who can beat them once lcs starts again :o The on paper roster analysis really doesn't indicate team performance. Pob joining CLG seemed like a meh move but turned out to be one of the great pickups of the summer split. Roccat "won the preseason trades" ended up middle of the pack. Fnatic were rip, turned out to be god tier. A lot of those non-skill factors have played a significant role in determining the teams success. POB joining clg was clg replacing their biggets problem (link) with a player who wasn't terrible... People weren't hugely hyped for pobelter specifically because almost any decent mid laner would have been a massive improvement, And it was hardly the thing that magically won them the season either. Roccat are playing in a region which had multiple good teams, rather then the ruins of NA where pretty much ever even semi decent team has been gutted except TSM. Your only basis for TSM not being the best team seems to be "FNC might happen again," which is hardly robust analysis. If anything TSM's biggest issue has been the fact that all their players (including bjergsen) are way too submissive and introverted to be the voice of the team. Double lift definitely doesn't have this issue. As long as regi can tone down the ego enough to not stab double in his sleep after an argument, I think this looks like one of the best lineup changes that could have happened for TSM, and they still have two spots open for non residents, so they can pretty much pimp the rest of the lineup however they want. Wat. Wasn't a big issue last split for TSM is that Bejrg was too vocal and dominating team decision making (because everyone else was pretty quiet)? The problem with TSM was shotcalling in general. Bjerg isn't the best shotcaller and the team didn't do anything to make it easy on him. If a top call went bad Dyrus would tilt bit by bit and not buy in on the calls and sometimes get passive aggressive about it. This caused Bjergsen to make top calls suggestively instead of assertively. The difference between "Can we TP here?" and "TP now." is big. Santorin was getting pulled around the map by his side lanes. If a lane wasn't going well and Santorin would go to relieve pressure the laner would tell him to not come. Then after shading away from, say botlane, he'd be called down there for an urgent situation but be too far to get there. As a result he spent a lot of time in no man's land, which added to the perceived passivity. It took a lot of his movement and pathing out of his hands and he was too mild mannered to just put his foot down. Dyrus and Lustboy are both men of little words, so they were less likely to make calls. Bjergsen being vocal in team discussions causing issues is bullshit Monte pulled out of his TSM hating butt and acting like he knew what was going on from a half hour show that covers at least a week. TSM's problems go way beyond shout calling. They need improvement across the board and that's one of the reasons they're clearing house. Clearly. Still, that roster was capable of doing pretty decent things for a Western team(IEM Kato) when it was working properly. Communication and shotcalling, while not the sole problem, was a majority of the problem for a roster that should have been more than the sum of its parts. The teams that went to IEM Katowice weren't particularly good at the time. I mean, GE Tigers lost to a new WE line up that went on to be butchered in the LPL, Yoe FW wasn't solid yet. And CJ... It was nice to see TSM win, but it wasn't exactly a stacked tournament. Point is, that's not a good example to showcase how good TSM is when they're functioning, because the real Western powerhouses solidified later during the year. TSM got blown up by CLG, and teams like Fnatic and OG would destroy them as well. Good team work does not replace talent, and Dyrus was not able to stand up the the better opponents, let alone the best.
At the time of team locking the top 2 NA, and KR teams were went. The top LMS and EU team went. The only teams that shouldn't have been there was WE and Gambit. To say anything else is either revisionist history or loaded with hindsight.
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I don't think Doublelift is better than Turtle with the exception of last split. Turtle has superior team fighting and doesn't solo farm and get picked off early in fights. Turtle outputs a lot of damage compared to Doublelift with much less farm. Once Turtle regains his form, he'll be better than Doublelift. This was a bad decision for TSM imo.
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On November 01 2015 22:25 udgnim wrote:
Aphromoo has waited patiently for this
ADC Aphromoo going to make a come back, otherwise CLG fan base going down in flames
Aphromoo wasn't an LCS-caliber ADC even when he mained the role at peak form, and lately he hasn't even been a very good support. I'd expect Yellowpete-level performances from Aphro as an ADC right now.
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EPT
