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On August 19 2015 06:32 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2015 06:22 Goumindong wrote:On August 19 2015 06:08 Slayer91 wrote:
Trinity a lot of movement, which is good for a champ with low sticking power, as well as a 200 burst every time you do get in range for an E, you can't compare it to hydra which is only good for the active just after you ult.
20% more attacks is an extra attack if you auto 5 times, you have some auto resets but its reasonable to assume you'll get at least 1 extra attack in the teamfight. I don't think its reasonable at all. AA,E,Q,AA,E at basically no real point interacts with your attack timer. Even if you're using Q instantly you only interact with the attack timer once between E and the next AA. Every other auto attack timer is reset or extended due to ability charge. You only get an extra auto attack if you get 4 more BC AA's after your combo, 3 more BC auto attacks if your Q is instant. (though its important to note that if your Q is instant you must wait on your E second E in order to get two spellblade procs). I think this is basally inconsequential. And if you're autoing that much you might as well start to figure E, passive, Q CD's too. You're getting pretty close and the target has to be dead by then(or you are) I don't disagree with you that Hydra is not particularly good on Vi. But I do disagree with you on why. The problem is that you're applying the logic that says "Hydra is better than Trinity Force of Vi" in order to say "Trinity Force is better than BC". But applying the logic that says "BC is better than Trinity Force" to say "Trinity Force is better than Hydra". Well auto animation time speed up still counts, and I wasn't suggesting AA E Q AA E, I was thinking of a AA E AA (uses attack timer) use charged Q to gap close, AA EE AA (more AA or flash+AA with next sheen proc to finish) If you can stick on a target long enough to combo like that I guess its more ideal, but that assumes you don't get CC'd or the guy doesn't use an escape skill. Hydra doesn't even provide more burst than trinity. I'm not really making any logical contradictions, trinity is better than BC for similar reasons that its better than hydra. hydra and bc both give more flat damage and are cheaper and give "comparable burst" BC+pickaxe+longsword is pretty damn close to hydra+giants belt.
Auto attack animation speed up is pretty minimal because you cancel the back side of the animation and because Vi's front swing is so swift.
And Yes Hydra (Ravenous) does provide more burst than Trinity. Its not even a question unless you get three trinity procs per combo in. But if you do that then you're not bursting and you're heavily delaying your combo in order to assure that you get a proc per ability use.
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You might be right about the hydra thing.
obviously hydra is worse in every other situation, just like you say bc is better in every other situation than trinity, but I actually think trinity is much better in any other situation as well, trinity procs just get better as the fight gets longer and mobility helps in skirmishes a lot more than armourpen stacks.
so yea, you're saying "hydra > trinity in burst, like trinity>bc, so why not get BC?"
but I think BC sucks and people are only getting it because HP and AD are both valued stats and theres no easy way to get both without buying 2 different items.
Also the increased ms for engaging on trinity is probably underrated, its one of the reasons people want deadmans plate right?
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Why are you guys saying you're gonna R AA E Q AA E? That makes literally no sense if the ADC is at least Vardags level.
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On August 19 2015 06:46 Fildun wrote:
Why are you guys saying you're gonna R AA E Q AA E? That makes literally no sense if the ADC is at least Vardags level.
Yeah, my math was based on R aa e aa and then you charge q and go for another aa+e, but it relies on not getting juked or cc'd again charging too. Life is hard, and if you have your team not being useless hopefully you can get some follow up to help you hit that q and distract cc.
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Yeah but usually you will get CC'd or the ADC will use some form of mobility. Not to mention that you've already used your Q to get in R range most of the time.
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So you no longer need to smite dragon to last hit it for the 5 devourer stacks do you? I didn't see it being fixed in the patch notes.
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On August 19 2015 06:44 Slayer91 wrote:
You might be right about the hydra thing.
obviously hydra is worse in every other situation, just like you say bc is better in every other situation than trinity, but I actually think trinity is much better in any other situation as well, trinity procs just get better as the fight gets longer and mobility helps in skirmishes a lot more than armourpen stacks.
so yea, you're saying "hydra > trinity in burst, like trinity>bc, so why not get BC?"
but I think BC sucks and people are only getting it because HP and AD are both valued stats and theres no easy way to get both without buying 2 different items.
Also the increased ms for engaging on trinity is probably underrated, its one of the reasons people want deadmans plate right?
Trinity Procs only get better as the fight goes on IF you have enough time to get another E charge or Q CD back. Which is to say at least 1.6 seconds after the BC gets those abilities back for trinity force 
The increased move speed on trinity is probably the single best argument to take it. But it still comes 3700 gold into the build. You can get the move speed earlier[not quite all of it] by purchasing the Alacrity enchantment if you want more and still be 300 gold ahead of Trinity and on your way to other items.
With Boots 2 the 8% MS on trinity is 31.2 MS. For comparison Deadman's Plate is 60 move speed when fully charged[though obviously even later than trinity if you're buying BC first].
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On August 19 2015 06:52 obesechicken13 wrote:
So you no longer need to smite dragon to last hit it for the 5 devourer stacks do you? I didn't see it being fixed in the patch notes.
You never needed to. Takedowns are qualified as kills/assists. The only thing bugged about it, last I checked, was that if there is multiple Smites on a team only the killer will get the stacks if one of them kills the dragon.
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Alacrity is pretty cost ineffective though, basically destroying most of the gold lead of not going trinity force and you still have all the disadvantages.
And yea, its tough to proc trinity after the first 2 or 3 at lower ranks of E because it takes so damn long to recharge, later on its easier though.
if you get cdr/lvl blues and 5% cdr from runes (if you go 21/9) you can max cdr with warrior and FoTM though, not not the worst situation if you prioritize maxing cdr. Not sure how important it is.
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On August 19 2015 06:57 Slayer91 wrote:
Alacrity is pretty cost ineffective though, basically destroying most of the gold lead of not going trinity force and you still have all the disadvantages.
And yea, its tough to proc trinity after the first 2 or 3 at lower ranks of E because it takes so damn long to recharge, later on its easier though.
if you get cdr/lvl blues and 5% cdr from runes (if you go 21/9) you can max cdr with warrior and FoTM though, not not the worst situation if you prioritize maxing cdr. Not sure how important it is.
I find its almost always better to go scaling MR in blues. Since
CDR is easier to come by in items
CDR is more important earlier
MR is just plain more efficient
Only makes sense to go CDR Blues if you're going heavy on offense like an AP mid might and want to stack more AP items rather than the lower damage CDR ones. Or you've got a reposition you need up lategame but can't afford CDR in your items (ADC)
So while it is possible to max CDR with runes/warrior/fotm you do so long after you get the most utility out of it. Your level 6 ult CD is 150 seconds, level 11 is 115, level 16 is 80. By level 16 your ult CD will be almost inconsequential since its going to be too long for twice in one fight but not long enough to not have it.
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You go CDR blues on junglers because it lets you clear faster, which gives you more gold to buy MR.
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Er, this is the first I'm hearing of Dead Man's Plate, and looking at it on the wikia it says it was added after the lore event. I haven't seen it in the patch notes, so my question is if there are any other new items that were similarly added without a lot of heads up?
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On August 19 2015 07:15 TheHumanSensation wrote:
Er, this is the first I'm hearing of Dead Man's Plate, and looking at it on the wikia it says it was added after the lore event. I haven't seen it in the patch notes, so my question is if there are any other new items that were similarly added without a lot of heads up?
A new Tiamat item. Titanic Hydra
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On August 19 2015 07:15 TheHumanSensation wrote:
Er, this is the first I'm hearing of Dead Man's Plate, and looking at it on the wikia it says it was added after the lore event. I haven't seen it in the patch notes, so my question is if there are any other new items that were similarly added without a lot of heads up?
dead man's is the only one i see in the summoner's rift shop atm
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On August 19 2015 07:09 Goumindong wrote:
I find its almost always better to go scaling MR in blues. Since
CDR is easier to come by in items
CDR is more important earlier
MR is just plain more efficient
1: Subjective. I normally find it difficult to max CDR from items alone without going FH which doesn't give any hp.
2: First I don't see how it's relevant and second how the fuck is cdr more important earlier? CDR becomes important when fights are happening a lot, and you want to cast your abilities more, cdr isn't the best clear speed offensive stat
3: My math tells me cdr/lvl gives 562 worth of gold (375 for 10%) and mr/lvl gives you only 540 (500 for 25) worth of gold.
You have a knack for being wrong with your blanket statements lol.
On August 19 2015 07:09 Goumindong wrote:
Only makes sense to go CDR Blues if you're going heavy on offense like an AP mid might and want to stack more AP items rather than the lower damage CDR ones. Or you've got a reposition you need up lategame but can't afford CDR in your items (ADC)
So while it is possible to max CDR with runes/warrior/fotm you do so long after you get the most utility out of it. Your level 6 ult CD is 150 seconds, level 11 is 115, level 16 is 80. By level 16 your ult CD will be almost inconsequential since its going to be too long for twice in one fight but not long enough to not have it.
It makes sense to go cdr blues on anyone who needs to cast their abilites a lot to be effective. I'd argue this is most aps and most tanks. Bruisers tend to be harder to judge.
Seems you want CDR mostly for casting ult more often while I look at CDR as a tool for casting mobility spells and cc a lot more often. (Vi Q, E for sheen procs and damage, udyr spells, amumu Q xin EQ combo etcetc)
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Random question, but can someone confirm if triggering the Zeke's passive count towards an assist (and if it's intended by Riot?)? Played a game where me + Vayne+ another guy had a shitshow fight at their inhib tower which we won, other dude gets his thread closed by Neo, we kill Noc. Not sure if we actually triggered the passive (I assume we did, I also used exh on Noc).I leave and b cuz low, Vayne goes off top and kills Olaf and I get assist credit/ gold from half the map away.
Also, Zeke's makes stacking AP on some supports (Bard mostly) kinda good, 20% increased AP is like a poor man's Rabadon's. Would also be insanely good on Morde when his reworks comes out.
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It should. No reason why it wouldn't, just like any ally ability trigger would. I am pretty sure you get assist credits for like shurelia actives
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Did Yango ever grace us with a letter, or did he lose his way?
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I think some of these items (Dead Man's Plate, Titanic Hydra) are not live yet, but will be in 5.16, when the rest of the itemization changes come through.
Also, gigantic, game-changing patch right before Worlds, Riot can put a big fat check in that box right there.
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EPT
