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On July 18 2015 07:30 Hider wrote:
I don't blame Bjergsen for not being an expert on teamcompositions because that's not really his job. His job is to play well and inform the coach about specific matchups. The coach's job is then to collect and analyze all that information and make the best possible decisions. Loco clearly hasn't been capable of that and as a consequence he has - effectively - been demoted to assitant coach.
Bjergson, as the in game shot caller (IIRC) needs to be an expert on team compositions. Because you have to be an expert on team compositions to know when and how your team can engage and you have to do that to shot call.
That being said, the coach also needs to be an expert on team composition and laning. The coach has two jobs
1) Coordinate pick/ban. Develop and execute the relevant pick/ban strategies.
2) Mold individual player behavior towards better strategic choice. [I.E. figure out when items are bad and make sure to not have your players buy them]
The players have two primary jobs
1) Execute the coaches game strategy in game. Either shotcalling in an appropriate manner or
2) Execute mechanically
If Locodoco isn't doing 1 or 2 what is he doing? Chatting with them during P/B phase?
edit: Being more specific on the coach/analyst position the reason this happens is because players do not have the time or energy to both develop and learn strategies. More over, players will often be of a different mind regardless of whether or not they all have the same information, as to what strategy is being played or picked for. Additionally, pick/ban strategy is complicated in its own right and so giving this to a dedicated position reduces player load significantly. The coach then needs to know how mechanically and structurally proficient players are on and against various champions and in various situations and needs to be able to communicate effectively after the pick ban what kind of composition you have/how you have to win the game.
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Went 0-4 in the first 10 minutes as jungle Kayle. Came back and got a penta anyway.
This champion is not OP guys!
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On July 18 2015 11:55 Sufficiency wrote:
Went 0-4 in the first 10 minutes as jungle Kayle. Came back and got a penta anyway.
This champion is not OP guys!
I've had people dodge when I banned kayle because of "the troll ban".
LOL.
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On July 18 2015 11:57 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 11:55 Sufficiency wrote:
Went 0-4 in the first 10 minutes as jungle Kayle. Came back and got a penta anyway.
This champion is not OP guys! I've had people dodge when I banned kayle because of "the troll ban". LOL.
Please tell me you also banned Trundle and this is a hilarious case of miscommunication.
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I still think Kayle is overhyped :/
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On July 18 2015 11:58 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 11:57 iCanada wrote:On July 18 2015 11:55 Sufficiency wrote:
Went 0-4 in the first 10 minutes as jungle Kayle. Came back and got a penta anyway.
This champion is not OP guys! I've had people dodge when I banned kayle because of "the troll ban". LOL. Please tell me you also banned Trundle and this is a hilarious case of miscommunication.
nah, Ez / Kayle / Ryze.
All 3 are champions I'd just rather aren't in the game, turn the game into a ticking timebomb. Not how you improve.
Was blue side, probably would have got one of them, but still. I'd just rather not. lol.
That said, with the popularity of Poke Champs and tanks, Trundle is kind of sleeper OP top, imo. So much sustain, shreds tanks, and can build a ton of damage. Ends up being a huge threat in fights, dat pillar, and is pretty scary in lane too.
On July 18 2015 12:03 AlterKot wrote:
I still think Kayle is overhyped :/
Get back to me when you watch your Mid Laner, Support, and ADC die in 3 autos combined from their jungler.
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Jungle Kayle is great for me because I can ignore lanes and ganks, like the old Feral Flare days, but still win the game.
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On July 18 2015 12:03 AlterKot wrote:
I still think Kayle is overhyped :/
I think jungle Kayle is fundamentally broken right now.
Sure, her early game can be terrible, but once she gets Hurricane + Sated she is just so damned stupid. She does tons of damage, and because of her W+R she actually fits into a variety of different kinds of team comps.
Making matter worse, her Q + Chilling Smite gank for the long lanes is absolutely disgusting.
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Wtf does one build on Karthus now a days? I just rolled him in ARAM.
Man those AP Itemization changes kick him when he was down. RoA nerfs make him noticeably Squishier. Without Sivir he can't even get into the back line to die without flash.
Would be sick engage though if you had a Tahm Kench on your team.
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Id imagine seraphs, ludens, void, sorcs, dcap and rylais? Zhon too but im not sure you want that over Ludens in ARAM.
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On July 18 2015 13:31 Purge wrote:
Id imagine seraphs, ludens, void, sorcs, dcap and rylais? Zhon too but im not sure you want that over Ludens in ARAM.
Thats what I built.
You never get through a tankline. You pretty much just a W bot.
I guess on Summoners Rift though you can engage with Homegard TP-W, prolly not as awful.
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I don't see why you would want Seraph instead of RoA unless you enjoy being instantly blown up.
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On July 18 2015 15:38 Sufficiency wrote:
I don't see why you would want Seraph instead of RoA unless you enjoy being instantly blown up.
When you get RoA you blow up regardless
It gives less HP Base by 30% than before and less HP per level.
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I've been having good results with devourer Irelia jungle, its quite versatile and solid.
So far I've found the most effective builds is devourer (skirmisher) into full tank, frozen heart etc etc. The 75 true damage on hit and 150 every other attack is enough to kill just about anyone, tank or squishy.
I've been experimenting with W>Q>E. Having your gap closer on a 6s CD compared to a 14 s CD is extremely strong. Its 3.6s at max cdr, as a jungle it feels better to me than E as sticking to a target is you #1 struggle.
devourer tabis frozen heart randuins thornmail and just wreck their ADC if they don't have strong magic damage. Lategame I go BOTRK if I need more punch. I've also gone banshee/hexdrinker/locket and remove their AP from the game.
Late game you become pretty godlike in skirmishes, like absolutely wrecking a 12-4 Diana in a 1v1 godlike. Squishy or tank doesn't matter with that much true damage.
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On July 18 2015 15:59 sob3k wrote:
I've been having good results with devourer Irelia jungle, its quite versatile and solid.
So far I've found the most effective builds is devourer (skirmisher) into full tank, frozen heart etc etc. The 75 true damage on hit and 150 every other attack is enough to kill just about anyone, tank or squishy.
I've been experimenting with W>Q>E. Having your gap closer on a 6s CD compared to a 14 s CD is extremely strong. Its 3.6s at max cdr, as a jungle it feels better to me than E as sticking to a target is you #1 struggle.
devourer tabis frozen heart randuins thornmail and just wreck their ADC if they don't have strong magic damage. Lategame I go BOTRK if I need more punch. I've also gone banshee/hexdrinker/locket and remove their AP from the game.
Late game you become pretty godlike in skirmishes, like absolutely wrecking a 12-4 Diana in a 1v1 godlike. Squishy or tank doesn't matter with that much true damage.
You probably get mad heals too. Prolly AP Xin-like Heals.
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On July 18 2015 15:48 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 15:38 Sufficiency wrote:
I don't see why you would want Seraph instead of RoA unless you enjoy being instantly blown up. When you get RoA you blow up regardless It gives less HP Base by 30% than before and less HP per level.
I think the idea is once you go for Seraph's, you lock yourself into Rylai's for the HP. Seraph's gives a lot more AP now, not that Karthus has mad ratios. Zhonya's being cheaper is nice for him. Liandry's is more of an option now too.
That said, Karthus is always Karthus. He still functions the same way he always has. ARAM was never really a good environment for him and I can't see much difference on Summoner's Rift.
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The problem with Karthus is the existence of Viktor.
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On July 18 2015 16:37 cLutZ wrote:
The problem with Karthus is the existence of Viktor.
nah, the problem with Karthus is that shit like Braum, Mao, Graggy, Reksai, etc exist: Mobile Tank Lines that have hard CC and gap closers.
Without TP he will never get in a place where he can die and do damage to high priority targets in a fight.
Also, I just did some Irelia testing, Sated Devourer Irelia can Solo baron with a Frozen heart & Ninja Tabis. Might not need the Ninja Tabi, I dunno was a close fight. I Double smited and had a pot ticking. but I think in an actual game, if you could have one meat shield with you it'd be easy to pull off.
/shrug
I remember trying to make Irelia work in the Jungle years ago, and I remember her just getting torn to shreds in the jungle in like S2. Maybe she was just really slow with her lack of AoE. Not sure, just remember thinking she had PvE limits, and therefore couldn't jungle.
Weird to me, cuz now she rips through it at nearly full HP, at a relatively solid speed. With pussy PvE runes, I finished a full clear completely healthy, can probably Run Movespeed Quints. Which is a short list of champions now a days that I like to use movespeed quints on in the jungle. I think she could likely even be a relatively high tier Cinderhulk jungler too (although maybe not, might have a harder time ganking with the slower clear). Clears pretty well, ganks pretty well, has solid control, is flexible as a champion, gets free tenacity.
When you Q a minion to gap close and refresh Q, it is real real rough for the laner. Get the slow, and even if they flash you right on their nuts still.
I like her. Thank you Sob3k.
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On July 18 2015 15:38 Sufficiency wrote:
I don't see why you would want Seraph instead of RoA unless you enjoy being instantly blown up.
because you go tear>rylai and you can't not finish roa as a first item
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Bjergson, as the in game shot caller (IIRC) needs to be an expert on team compositions. Because you have to be an expert on team compositions to know when and how your team can engage and you have to do that to shot call.
Yeh you might have a point. That said, when noone on the team understands team compositions properly, isn't that also the role of the coach to teach them how to play in different scenarios? Creating that knowledge might take time, but Loco has been a year at TSM.
Based on what Regi says about Bjergsen, the latter is constantly willing to learn and thus I think he is definitely open for well-reasoned arguments/analysis about teamcompositions.
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EPT
