PBE Discussion Thread - Page 4

On February 19 2014 08:00 cLutZ wrote:
Feel like the Gragas nerfs are very strong. He won't have much Lane presence until 6 now IMO. Still don't understand why they keep with the Midlane focus when Top is so toxic right now.

On February 19 2014 16:35 cLutZ wrote:
I disagree with the notion of that though. His E maybe should be less forgiving, but he needs burst to be relevant because his sustained damage is bleh. And he needs tankiness because hes melle.

The reason I dont like it is because I think the utility on his ult is very meta dependent. Since no AP can really kill the popular tops right now, the best thing to do is shoot them away and give the whole team more time. I doubt people would argue that Ori has more utility, but shes less popular right now because its not necessarily the right utility for this meta.

On February 19 2014 16:47 Lylat wrote:
Why would they nerf Elise instead of buffing other jungler ? I really dislike how they take the easy way of nerfing a champion instead of buffing others (like Jarvan, Xin, Nautilus, Hecarim, etc..).
Besides they already nerfed Elise a lot, I don't want them to gut her because she's really fun to watch/play with

On February 19 2014 17:06 JazzVortical wrote:

He has poke though, you can't really have poke and burst. He just has too much of everything.

You're right on his utility being relevant though. Still doesn't excuse the rest of his power.


This is also another option that I can get on board with. I'd be quite happy to not see Elise competitively for a year though.

On February 19 2014 17:18 Gahlo wrote:

Riot's balance method is that they like to have a measuring stick. Renekton, for example is the measuring stick for top lane. You can be weaker in lane than Renekton. You can be slightly stronger in lane than Renekton. But you are not allowed to poop all over Renekton. If you are, you get nerfed, hopefully, to Renektonish levels. Elise is either a) the benchmark or b) slightly "better" than the benchmark, whom I assume is Lee Sin.

When picked in OGN winter, she had a 53.1% winrate. While above 50%, this also puts her in 13th spot compared to to other champions with at least 20 pick/bans. These champions are:
Kassadin- 80%
Nidalee- 71.4%
Annie- 64.3%
Vayne- 64.3%
Olaf- 61.9%
Ezreal- 61.1%
Lee Sin- 60.7%
Sivir- 57.1%
Thresh- 55%
Orianna- 54.2%
Shyvana- 53.3%
Rengar- 53.3%
Elise- 53.1%
Mundo- 46.7%
Gragas- 45.5%
Riven- 45%
Lucian- 37.8%
Caitlyn- 31.6%

On February 19 2014 17:41 cLutZ wrote:


Lots of champs have poke and burst. Leblanc is another FOTM I can think of, Lux does, Brand and Xerath would if they were balanced, Sivier and Corki do from AD.

Its just that he is melle, so they give him tankiness, which he needs, but they also gave him the Roam/Safety with E. But E needs to be more of a tradeoff than it is now, much like how Kass ult becomes an issue. I think he is surely strong, but is just a bit too safe. Thats the same issue with Renekton, in many ways.

On February 19 2014 18:48 Gahlo wrote:

How big the game's roster is doesn't matter. There will always be characters that won't get picked in a tournament. Despite this, 75 of the 117(64%) of the champions were used in OGN winter. Who would that 76th champion be in situations where Elise was ignored? Do you really think it'd make a difference on the way the game is played?

On February 19 2014 18:30 JazzVortical wrote:

That's the point. He can't have the mix of everything he does currently.