Braum Concussive Blows ( Passive ) passive trigger damage lowered to 32 (+8 per level ) from 38 (+12 per level ) Stand Behind Me ( W ) mana cost increased to 50/55/60/65/70 from 30/40/50/60/70 Glacial Fissure ( R ) his four second slow field's slow duration reduced to .25 seconds from 1.5 seconds Glacial Fissure ( R ) knock up time reduced to 1/1.3/1.5 from 1.5 at all ranks Glacial Fissure ( R ) slow field amount reduced to 40/50/60% from 60% at all ranks
Elise Cocoon ( Human E ) missile width decreased to 55 from 70 Rappel ( Spider E ) range decreased to 700 from 925
Evelynn Hate Spike ( Q ) damage lowered to 30/45/60/75/90 from 40/60/80/100/120 [may be additional changes ] Hate Spike ( Q ) mana cost lowered to 12/18/24/30/36 from 16/22/28/34/40
Gragas Barrel Roll ( Q ) now deals 70% damage to minions Drunken Rage ( W ) mana cost increased to 30 from 0 Drunken Rage ( W ) damage reduction now lasts for 2.5 seconds down from 3 seconds Drunken Rage ( W ) cooldown changed to 8/7/6/5/4 from 8/7.5/7/6.5/6
Graves Buckshot ( Q ) enemies hit with multiple bullets now take 40% damage from each additional bullet, up from 35% Collateral Damage ( R ) initial damage increased to 250/400/550 from 250/350/450 Collateral Damage ( R ) explosion damage increased to 200/320/440 from 200/280/360
Hecarim Rampage ( Q ) mana cost reduced to 24/26/28/30/32 from 24/28/32/36/40
Janna Howling Gale ( Q ) has been reworded and now specifically mentions Howling Gale ( Q ) cooldown now starts as soon as it is cast.
Kayle Righteous Fury ( ) AP ratio on both parts increased to .25 from .2 Intervention ( R ) cooldown lowered to 100/90/80 from 110/95/80
Kog'Maw Base HP lowered to 400 from 440 HP Per level increased to 87 from 84 Caustic Spittle ( Q ) MR/Armor shred changed to 12/16/20/24/28 from 20/22/24/26/28
Le'Blanc Distortion ( W ) mana cost lowered to 80/85/90/95/100 from 80/90/100/110/120
Lissandra Ice Shard ( Q ) cooldown lowered to 6/5.25/4.5/3.75/3 from 6/5.5/5/4.5/4 Ring of Frost ( W ) AP ratio down to .4 from .6 Frozen Tomb ( R ) slow increased to 30/45/75% from 20/30/40%
Lee Sin Base HP Regen Per Second increased to 1.65 from 1.25 Safeguard ( W 1 ) shield duration lowered to 2 seconds from 4 seconds Cripple ( E 2 ) no longer lists that it reduces attack speed
Lucian Relentless Pursuit ( E ) cooldown increased to 18/17/16/15/14 from 14/13/12/11/10 Relentless Pursuit ( E ) no longer lists it reduces slow effects
Lulu Whimsy ( W ) mana cost lowered to 65 at all ranks from 65/70/75/80/85 Whimsy ( W ) movement speed duration lowered to 3/3.5/4/4.5/5 seconds from 5 seconds at all ranks
Nami Base movement speed lowered to 335 from 340 Ebb and Flow ( W ) cooldown increased to 10 seconds from 9 seconds
Olaf Undertow ( Q ) cooldown reduced to 7 from 8 seconds Vicious Strikes ( W ) increased healing from all sources changed to 1% for every 2% of health missing from 1% for every 2.5% of health missing. Ragnarok ( R ) cooldown lowered to 100/90/80 from 120/100/80
Rammus Tremors ( R ) now has a range indicator when you hover over it on your ability bar, nothing else about the spell has changed.
Sivir On The hunt ( R ) movement speed bonus reduction time increased to 2/4/6 secons from 2/3/4 seconds
Sona Base HP lowered to 353 from 380 HP Per Level increased to 77 from 70 Base armor increased to 15 from 12 Passive - Power Chord: Q Powerchord amplification down from +100% damage to +50% damage + Show Spoiler [Q - Hymn of Valor] +
Creates a 350 unit aura that lasts for 3 seconds. Sona and allies touched by the aura get 40/50/60/70/80 (+0.25 AP) bonus magic damage on their next auto attack. Buff lasts 3 seconds Each ally Sona tags with the aura increases the duration of the aura by 0.5 seconds Cooldown increased to 10 seconds from 7 seconds No longer grants persistent AP and AD aura Mana cost increased by 10 at all ranks (55/60/65/70/75)
Initial cast heals Sona plus the lowest health nearby ally for 20/40/60/80/100 (+ 0.2 AP) heath. This heal is increased by 1% for each 1% missing health of the target. Creates a 350 unit aura that lasts for 3 seconds. Sona and her allies touched by the aura get a shield that blocks 40/60/80/100/120 (+0.2 AP) damage. Each ally Sona tags with the aura increases the duration of the aura by 0.5 seconds Cooldown increased to 10 seconds from 7 seconds No longer grants persistent MR and Armor aura Mana cost increased by 10 at all ranks (70/75/80/85/90)
Initial cast grants Sona a boost of 13%/14%/15%/16%/17% + (7.5% for every 100 AP) move speed. This decays down to the amount Sona grants to her allies. Creates a 350 unit aura that lasts for 3 seconds Grants allies touched by the aura 10%/11%/12%/13%/14% move speed for 1.5 seconds. Each ally Sona tags with the aura increases the duration of the aura by 0.5 seconds Cooldown increased to 10 seconds from 7 seconds No longer grants persistent move speed aura No longer grants allies % move speed on cast
Ranking up Crescendo increases the strength of Sona’s auras +10/20/30 magic damage for Hymn of Valor +10/20/30 extra shield for Aria of Perseverance +2%/4%/6% move speed for Song of Celerity Crescendo has new VFX that more accurately show the affected area of the spell
Thresh Dark Passage ( W ) now shields Thresh and up to one ally from all nearby allies. The Box ( R ) now lists "no damage" on remaining walls once one is broken, down from half.
Tristana Rocket Jump ( W ) slow duration now 1/1.5/2/2.5/3.0 from 2.5 at all ranks Explosive Shot ( E ) dot damage lowered to 80/125/170/215/260 from 110/150/190/230/270
Varus Chain of Corruption ( R ) cooldown decreased to 110/90/70 from 120/105/90
Vayne Attack speed per level increased to 4 from 3.1 Final Hour ( R ) bonus AD increased to 30/50/70 from 25/40/55
Vel'Koz Void Rift ( W ) initial blast width increased to better match the second explosion ( ~22.5 increase )
Yasuo Wind Wall ( W ) tool tip no longer lists that he builds a % of his maximum flow on each dash, down from 3/6/9/12/15%
Ziggs Mega Inferno Bomb ( R ) cooldown increased to 120 at all ranks from 120/105/90
Items
Banshee Veil Spell shield unique passive now refreshes after 40 seconds up from 25
Blackfire Torch Unique active cooldown increased to 90 seconds from 60 seconds.
Chalice of Harmony Magic resist lowered to 20 from 25.
Deathfire Grasp Unique Active cooldown increased to 90 seconds from 60
Entrophy ( Aram / Domininon ) Active reduces movement speed and deals true damage over 2 seconds, down from 2.5
Frostfang Gold per 10 reduced to 2 from 4
Frost Queen's claim Gold per 10 reduced to 2 from 4
Nomad's Medallion Mana regen per 5 reduced to 5 from 7 Now grants +10 movement speed
Rylai's Crystal Scepter Health reduced to 400 from 500 AP increased to 100 from 80
Talisman of Ascension Health regen increased to 15 from 10 Cooldown reduction decrased to 10% from 20% Now grants 20 movement speed
Spirit of the Ancient Golem, Quill Coat, The Lightbringer, Hextech Sweeper, Grez's Spectral Lantern Unqiue active that makes a ward now named "Hunter's Sight" rather than having no name.
Summoner Spells
Exhaust Exhaust now reduces "Movement Speed and Attack Speed by 30%, Magic and Armor resist by 10, and damage dealt by 40% for 2.5 seconds" from "Damage dealt by 50% and attack speed and movement speed reduction by 30%
Heal Heal amount now 75 ( 15 x level ) so 90 ( level 1 ) - 345 ( level 18 ) from 95 - 475
TTL Jungle Mobs
Wolves [ TWISTED TREELINE ONLY ]
Small Wolf damage increased to 20 from 16. Small Wolf crit chance lowered to 0 from 25% Large wolf damge increased to 40 from 28 Large wolf crit chance lowered to 0 from 25%
On January 25 2014 08:13 TheYango wrote: First the OT thread, now this.
What are people even going to discuss in GD now?
People would bitch every now and then when I posted PBE stuff, or stuff like the update before this one that I posted didn't get as much discussion for as big an update it was, due to the timing of it.
On January 25 2014 08:13 TheYango wrote: First the OT thread, now this.
What are people even going to discuss in GD now?
People would bitch every now and then when I posted PBE stuff, or stuff like the update before this one that I posted didn't get as much discussion for as big an update it was, due to the timing of it.
Who bitched? tbh, this should belong in GD. It's game discussion, even if it's tentative changes.
If Gahlo is a nerd and is going to document the PBE changes along with extrapolating the differences between PBE and Live i will throw an IRL party, and thus object to objections to this thread.
On January 25 2014 08:40 cLutZ wrote: If Gahlo is a nerd and is going to document the PBE changes along with extrapolating the differences between PBE and Live i will throw an IRL party, and thus object to objections to this thread.
ok, that's a bit different. If he does what you stated (keeping OP updated and offer his personal insight to changes [doesn't have to be correct, something is better than nothing]) then this thread is definitely warranted.
On January 25 2014 08:40 cLutZ wrote: If Gahlo is a nerd and is going to document the PBE changes along with extrapolating the differences between PBE and Live i will throw an IRL party, and thus object to objections to this thread.
ok, that's a bit different. If he does what you stated (keeping OP updated and offer his personal insight to changes [doesn't have to be correct, something is better than nothing]) then this thread is definitely warranted.
That's the plan!
I'm gonna make a compilation post starting with 4.2, since what's currently up there is like a billion everything. -.-
I don't care for the Mundo change because it doesn't address the problems IMO. Those are (in no order): 1. Spammable Axes earlygame means he can't be zoned too hard from creeps during his "weak" earlygame. 2. Too Tanky vs. No ignite. 3. Too much pushing for no cost after 1 major item made. 4. Its a waste to try to CC him.
I'd rather have seen an increase in his Ult's CD at ranks 1/2, plus an increase in his Axe's Earlygame CD.
Also, they continue to float that Orianna change, and remove it everytime a patch is going to live. Seems like it really reduces her power a lot more than one would initially think.
I can't wait to talk about the MF changes when they go live, depending on the double up rework she has potential to be bonkers in solo Q, she's actually still a lot better in lane than a lot of people think, being able to spam double up with it's new mana cost, albeit reduced damage should put her way over the top in lane strength
On January 28 2014 10:07 Slusher wrote: I can't wait to talk about the MF changes when they go live, depending on the double up rework she has potential to be bonkers in solo Q, she's actually still a lot better in lane than a lot of people think, being able to spam double up with it's new mana cost, albeit reduced damage should put her way over the top in lane strength
I can't believe they're even suggesting a lot of those changes. I expect them to be toned down before they hit the PBE.
On January 31 2014 16:01 Amui wrote: Well why the fuck are they randomly nerfing J4 shield. He already hasn't seen much recent competitive play, this is just kicking him while he's down.
Yeah I was like wtf is wrong with them after I've seen the shield nerf :\ my little Jarvan. Rita buff please.
Edit : Oh wait, I just read :
"It's not really a nerf to j4. The indicator ring went down but the particle is unchanged.
Just to make the particle accurately match the indicator.
On January 31 2014 09:17 cLutZ wrote: That Thresh Range Nerf should be interesting. I always thought he should have been melle from the start.
They gotta do something, he's been at the top since he was released. I think he should have slightly longer cooldowns (I am aware they are already longish). His skills are all just so powerful, maybe make it so he has to be precise.
Or the lantern could be hit. It's just insanely good.
On January 31 2014 09:17 cLutZ wrote: That Thresh Range Nerf should be interesting. I always thought he should have been melle from the start.
They gotta do something, he's been at the top since he was released. I think he should have slightly longer cooldowns (I am aware they are already longish). His skills are all just so powerful, maybe make it so he has to be precise.
Or the lantern could be hit. It's just insanely good.
CD increases aren't enough of a hit since Thresh tend to build Lucidity/Talisman for 35% CDR so they can spam hooks currently.
On January 31 2014 09:17 cLutZ wrote: That Thresh Range Nerf should be interesting. I always thought he should have been melle from the start.
They gotta do something, he's been at the top since he was released. I think he should have slightly longer cooldowns (I am aware they are already longish). His skills are all just so powerful, maybe make it so he has to be precise.
Or the lantern could be hit. It's just insanely good.
CD increases aren't enough of a hit since Thresh tend to build Lucidity/Talisman for 35% CDR so they can spam hooks currently.
Would still make it higher than now. Flay especially seems like it should be longer. I thought Mobo boots were the go to.
On January 31 2014 09:17 cLutZ wrote: That Thresh Range Nerf should be interesting. I always thought he should have been melle from the start.
They gotta do something, he's been at the top since he was released. I think he should have slightly longer cooldowns (I am aware they are already longish). His skills are all just so powerful, maybe make it so he has to be precise.
Or the lantern could be hit. It's just insanely good.
CD increases aren't enough of a hit since Thresh tend to build Lucidity/Talisman for 35% CDR so they can spam hooks currently.
Would still make it higher than now. Flay especially seems like it should be longer. I thought Mobo boots were the go to.
It's a moderatly new build. I want to say from Poohmandu, but I know it's form Korea. The goal is to hit the teamfight stage and just toss hooks ever ~5 seconds.
On January 31 2014 09:17 cLutZ wrote: That Thresh Range Nerf should be interesting. I always thought he should have been melle from the start.
They gotta do something, he's been at the top since he was released. I think he should have slightly longer cooldowns (I am aware they are already longish). His skills are all just so powerful, maybe make it so he has to be precise.
Or the lantern could be hit. It's just insanely good.
CD increases aren't enough of a hit since Thresh tend to build Lucidity/Talisman for 35% CDR so they can spam hooks currently.
Would still make it higher than now. Flay especially seems like it should be longer. I thought Mobo boots were the go to.
Flay is his big problem, dont think hooks as huge of a deal personally, flay is so spammable and disruptive its ridiculous. Chain is kinda problematic cuz he can instantly Q E R and you're in a horrible spot at will
Let's be honest lantern has been broken from the start but thresh has already been nerfed so much that they're probably waiting a bit more. Flay is a bit too good but I'm not sure what could be changed about it, the cd isn't the problem it's more how freaking amazing the spell is in combination with death sentence. So I'd just nerf lantern range (slightly) and give a longer cooldown to death sentence late game because with max cdr you can just spam hooks all day.
I'm just really confused by the last change to Thresh's lanterns. Before, there was some (albeit unintuitive) counterplay to the lantern since you can prevent the enemy from clicking it with wards and stuff. Now, it's much harder to stop people from grabbing lantern.
On February 01 2014 04:45 Ryuu314 wrote: I'm just really confused by the last change to Thresh's lanterns. Before, there was some (albeit unintuitive) counterplay to the lantern since you can prevent the enemy from clicking it with wards and stuff. Now, it's much harder to stop people from grabbing lantern.
Riot changed it because it was "unfun."
You know, because having somebody dead to rites and then watch them zip away 2000 units is fun.
On February 01 2014 04:45 Ryuu314 wrote: I'm just really confused by the last change to Thresh's lanterns. Before, there was some (albeit unintuitive) counterplay to the lantern since you can prevent the enemy from clicking it with wards and stuff. Now, it's much harder to stop people from grabbing lantern.
Riot changed it because it was "unfun."
You know, because having somebody dead to rites and then watch them zip away 2000 units is fun.
Thats why we need my fix. "Think your saving that idiot Orianna? Ha. Mundo on your face!"
The proposed DShield changes are actually really good for Sona, she is probly the champion that cares the most about the block and the least about the hp5 altho this was stated as a first pass so things will change.
On February 13 2014 06:43 Nemireck wrote: Oh shit, my MF is getting... Buffed?
Thank you based Rito.
Edit:
Wait, is this a buff? When do I even ever have 472 AD.
Ult looks like a nerf as well, unless the Impure Shots make up the lost damage.
Esplain to me! MF being my main adc and all, I wanna know what's comin up.
Impure shots can stack up to 50 times (lol) and is applied by her ult. If you can get off your ult+the fight is reasonably drawn out she should be able to outdamage old MF. Although this means her lane strength is probably lowered.
On February 13 2014 06:43 Nemireck wrote: Oh shit, my MF is getting... Buffed?
Thank you based Rito.
Edit:
Wait, is this a buff? When do I even ever have 472 AD.
Ult looks like a nerf as well, unless the Impure Shots make up the lost damage.
Esplain to me! MF being my main adc and all, I wanna know what's comin up.
Impure shots can stack up to 50 times (lol) and is applied by her ult. If you can get off your ult+the fight is reasonably drawn out she should be able to outdamage old MF. Although this means her lane strength is probably lowered.
There are a few great things actually. Now that I've taken a minute to read closer.
W is a buff, plain and simple. Lower cost, lower CD, more damage (though not magic damage anymore it seems). With 315 AD (base, BT, IE, LW) it deals 7 more damage (12-19) per stack (5 stacks btw, not 50?). Q is a trade off. Lower cost, lower CD, lower damage (though second bounce seems to do more*)
R is maybe a buff? What's the math on that that I'm too lazy to do? Lower damage from the ult, but impure stacks doing 19/38/57/76/95 damage... If you hit all 8 waves on one person that's 570 damage from IS alone... Seems legit.
haven't been able to see the true potential of vel'koz yet, because new account = low mmr and i get matched with really unskilled players. side note: i really didn't like heartseeker ashe's sounds, pretty loud and kind of annoying
On February 13 2014 08:14 anonemouse wrote: haven't been able to see the true potential of vel'koz yet, because new account = low mmr and i get matched with really unskilled players. side note: i really didn't like heartseeker ashe's sounds, pretty loud and kind of annoying
It's the PBE. Most of the players there aren't skilled.
On February 13 2014 08:14 anonemouse wrote: haven't been able to see the true potential of vel'koz yet, because new account = low mmr and i get matched with really unskilled players. side note: i really didn't like heartseeker ashe's sounds, pretty loud and kind of annoying
It's the PBE. Most of the players there aren't skilled.
Agreed. There was one stream I watched where I just couldn't stop facepalming. I think the most unintuitive thing will be hitting Q. You can angle it to try and get a little more range out of it (rather than spamming it directly at people as I saw most people do), when people dodge you can reactivate it to force another dodge, and sometimes when chasing (mainly in the jungle) it's actually preferable to shoot Q at an angle for a more inescapable projectile path. Everything else is actually not too crazy compared to other champions and people have no excuse for screwing it up.
One thing I find really strange about this new champion is that his R does 500 / 700 / 900 (+ 60% AP) total damage. This strikes me as odd because that's a reasonable amount of base damage (considering it's channeled and over 2.5 seconds) but really low ratio.
On February 13 2014 13:28 Sufficiency wrote: One thing I find really strange about this new champion is that his R does 500 / 700 / 900 (+ 60% AP) total damage. This strikes me as odd because that's a reasonable amount of base damage (considering it's channeled and over 2.5 seconds) but really low ratio.
I think each tick on the ray counts as a stack towards his passive, which is a true damage dot. Every # on his spells has to take into account his passive.
On February 13 2014 13:28 Sufficiency wrote: One thing I find really strange about this new champion is that his R does 500 / 700 / 900 (+ 60% AP) total damage. This strikes me as odd because that's a reasonable amount of base damage (considering it's channeled and over 2.5 seconds) but really low ratio.
I think each tick on the ray counts as a stack towards his passive, which is a true damage dot. Every # on his spells has to take into account his passive.
It says on the wiki that his R applies a stack every HALF a second, and his passive's damage is instant.... I think one should easily be able to add in at least one passive proc through R..... that's even MORE base damage.
On February 13 2014 13:28 Sufficiency wrote: One thing I find really strange about this new champion is that his R does 500 / 700 / 900 (+ 60% AP) total damage. This strikes me as odd because that's a reasonable amount of base damage (considering it's channeled and over 2.5 seconds) but really low ratio.
I think each tick on the ray counts as a stack towards his passive, which is a true damage dot. Every # on his spells has to take into account his passive.
It says on the wiki that his R applies a stack every HALF a second, and his passive's damage is instant.... I think one should easily be able to add in at least one passive proc through R..... that's even MORE base damage.
Derp. I haven't put too much attention on him. Keep in mind that the beam supposedly move slowly, so it's trying to make up for not hitting with all 5 ticks. Also, your use of "reasonable" through me off.
I just wanted to lay out some of my thoughts on the item balance as added to the PBE today
Coin route Ancient Coin
3 HP/5 --> 0 HP/5 Favor: Now also heals you for 5 health whenever a nearby enemy minion that you did not kill dies
Nomad's Medallion 11 MP/5 --> 10 MP/5 10 HP/5 --> 5 HP/5 2 Gp/10 Unchanged Favor: Now also heals you for 5 health whenever a nearby enemy minion that you did not kill dies.
Talisman of Ascension Stats Unchanged Favor: Now also heals you for 5 health whenever a nearby enemy minion that you did not kill dies.
I find it interesting that they buff this item at all, it is currently the gold item du'jour albeit almost exclusively because of the final item. When I first read it I thought it was perhaps to counter act Doran's but the Doran's nerfs are still in on this patch so it really seems like a poor choice, especially in relation how it devalues Relic shield even further, like the reason to take shield in lane right now is for lane strength and a bit more gold later and this strips the additional lane strength down to almost nothing.
AP route Spellthief's Edge 10 Ability Power --> 0 Ability Power 3 MP/5 Unchanged 2 GP/10 Unchanged Tribute: Your spells and attacks deal 10 additional damage to champions and towers and generate 4 gold. This can happen up to 3 times every 30 seconds. Tribute is disabled for 12 seconds if you kill a minion. Frostfang 20 Ability Power --> 0 Ability Power 7 MP/5 Unchanged 4 GP/10 Unchanged Tribute: Your spells and attacks deal 15 additional damage to champions and towers and generate 8 gold. This can happen up to 3 times every 30 seconds. Tribute is disabled for 12 seconds if you kill a minion. Frost Queen's Claim Recipe Changed: Frostfang + Fiendish Codex + 330 Gold = 2000 Gold Total 50 Ability Power --> 40 Ability Power 0% Cooldown Reduction --> 10% Cooldown Reduction 10 MP/5 Unchanged +4 GP/10 Unchanged Tribute: Your spells and attacks deal 15 additional damage to champions and towers and generate 8 gold. This can happen up to 3 times every 30 seconds. Tribute is NOT disabled if you kill a minion at this upgrade level Active: Free Target instead of Enemy Targetted Increased Cast Range to 850 from 600 Area of Effect size decreased to 300 from 400 Magic Damage increased to 50 + 10 per champion level Now applies an 80% slow that decays over 3 seconds from a flat 50% slow over 2 seconds Updated particles
Spellthief edge on live is pretty bad for a couple of reasons first of which being that the final item is really terrible compared to the other options, but tier 1 also has some flaws. the Mp5 on Coin and Edge are the same so you don't actually get to cast any additional spells with this item, it is significantly harder to maximize the gold generation from this item as compared to the two other options, it is the only one that gives you 0 sustain.
So lets look at the changes, it now has no AP but adds base damage which should equal more damage than the ap did in the first place, so thats good, but you still have to trade in order to get the gold, and you lose ap for defensive abilities like shields and heals which is important since this item provides no sustain. Because this item has no health it's actually also terrible for low level all-ins so I'm not really sure what advantage you would gain from opening this item instead of one of the other two.
The text also reads "Your spells and attacks deal 10 additional damage to champions and towers and generate 4 gold. This can happen up to 3 times every 30 seconds." so does the gold generation go on cd? or the gold generation AND the damage, if the damage goes on cd this item is pretty terrible, if not it's usable vs weak lanes who can be auto attack harassed and thats about it. In most cases even with the proposed nerfs Dshield would still be the better trading item vs. t1 and t2 spell thief.
The final item does look overall a lot better, the way I read the active it sounds like CM's Crystal Nova which would be really good in the right situations, I like how it does not punish you for pushing either, if you can get to the final item this route may be decent on certain supports now, but the first 2 tiers are at best a slight upgrade from a pretty weak position.
If this item to have good trading lane strength in t1 and t2, which from the developer comments seems to be the case, they need to model it after the strongest AP lane item in the game, Athenes. borrow the hp per minion killed from coin, instead give me enough mp per minion to throw spells out on a regular basis, maybe give the t2 a little bit of cdr and I think you'd have something, as is it's just too weak in lane to justify.
Relic Shield Relic Shield 50 Health --> 75 Health 6 HP/5 --> 0 HP/5 Spoils of War: Heals your ally and yourself for 40 Health upon killing a unit. Grants gold equal to the kill to your ally, but does not grant the additional +5 on live. 2 Max Charges, 60 second CD Unchanged Targon's Brace 175 Health Unchanged 12 HP/5 --> 4 HP/5 Spoils of War: Heals your ally and yourself for 50 Health upon killing a unit. Grants gold equal to the kill to your ally, but does not grant the additional +5 on live. 3 Max Charges, 30 second CD Unchanged Face of the Mountain Recipe Changed: Targon's Brace + Kindlegem + 300 Gold = 2000 Total Gold Stats Unchanged Spoils of War: Heals your ally and yourself for 50+1% of your Maximum Health upon killing a unit. Grants gold equal to the kill to your ally, but does not grant the additional +5 on live. 4 Max Charges, 30 second CD Unchanged Active: No longer costs Health to activate Damage now scales based off of 150% of the target's total Attack Damage
it's hard to talk about this item outside of the context of the coin buffs. So currently Relic Shield generates 72 health per min, while this new one does 40 assuming you never allow it to sit on 2 charges it's already been nerfed to be not so good on ranged heroes so basically this is for melee supports and it provides the least regen of any of the items. It no longer gives bonus gold so it doesn't have that going for it, the only thing it does have is additional health if you want to go for a low level all in, and the heal on your ad is actually increased by a significant amount in the early game.
Face of the mountain now scales off attack damage of the target making it actually terrible when not used on the adc. I don't get this change at all, it's a pretty nice buff in the 5/10 where you cast it on the AD, like I like that it does not take your health away I just don't like that they are saying to only ever cast it on the AD, if I cast it on my Ziggs who is death marked now it's terrible? I just don't like that.
At 850g total price and 175 health and 4hp/5 Targon's Brace is actually just complete dogs shit when compared to sightstone (which is being reduced to 850g total) it's just a matter of finding workable starting items for that route (that can compare to coin) Probably just go nerfed Dshield which ALSO generates more health than Relic shield in addition to the block.
Overall the changes seem to only buff the final version of the items, while making the item with the strongest post lane phase presence have the best lane phase, I mean LOL?
Not a fan of the changes but I'd be interested in other opinions.
I think you might be a little too hard on Relic Shield.
40 health per execute on a 60 second cooldown is 3.33 HP/5, which on paper doesn't look as good as the old 6 HP/5.
But the thing to remember is you come into the lane with the initial two charges, and 25 extra HP than you had before. A 105 initial HP difference than you had before. It would take 200 seconds in lane for the old Relic Shield to make up that difference, and only after that does it start to become better. So at level 1 and level 2, the new Relic Shield will be stronger.
What's weird about that though, and what I don't like, is that the gold generation on Relic Shield incentivizes you to use at least one charge immediately so it will start recharging, while the HP gain incentivizes you to wait until you get hit to use a charge. Which means it's actually more effective for the enemy duo to not poke you until you've used one charge. That's just awkward and weird.
Targons is just straight better than it was before, as is Face of the Mountain. I wouldn't look at the active in terms of using it on your ADC for damage. Think of it more as additional tanky stats for that Leona who wants to engage into the enemy team. Now she is totally okay with using it on herself just prior to the engage since it won't cost her any health.
I also think the AP items are better than you're giving them credit for, but the point of lack of sustain is a good point.
Personally I'd prefer if they just did what they did with the jungle items. It's clear that Ancient Coins method of gold generation is the most consistent and easiest to manage. Just change all three items to Ancient Coins gold generation method. Then they can fiddle with the stats however they need to to balance the three items.
Unless I'm reading the post on S@20 wrong the new active is 150% of target AD with 0 base so it's pretty terrible as a self cast for Leona.
I should clarify that from my position Terrible is a pretty steep cliff when it comes to competitive gaming, like you say "I'm being to harsh", and I say for items that literally lock one another out there has to be situations where it is superior to the other to be not terrible, hence since this version of shield is worse than Coin at all phases of the game, it's a pile of garbage, that can be trumped by a casual coin and a sightstone.
You're thinking about the damage. It's still 10% of Leona's max HP added as a shield to Leona right before she dives into everyone.
Before you couldn't look at it that way because if she used it before the fight started the cost of the active would be just as much as the shield, you had to either use it on somebody else while you weren't being focused (which is odd because melee supports tend to try to get themselves focused if they can), or you had to wait till your HP was really low and try to use it then, in which case you never got the damage because you either died or got out of the fight.
Now you can use it as an initiation ability on whoever is diving, and it makes a lot more sense. Could also use it on that Vi or Zed or Riven right as they jump into the enemy team.
I'd also be really interested in seeing the new Relic in a double bruiser kill lane situation.
Say we get Jarvan Leona or Jarvan Pantheon or some manly lane like that, and they open double Relic. On top of the Dshield being nerfed now they can trade level 1 before clearing the creep wave because they know the creep wave is going to be giving them each 160 HP in immediate heals.
Could do some silly strong level 1 combination with it like Darius Gangplank or whatever.
I dunno, I know Riot said in the post that they weren't intending to have Ruby Crystal openings become a thing, but that honestly doesn't seem so bad, going, say, Ruby + ward + pot or ruby + 3 pots (or Ruby + ward or Ruby + 2 pots if going deep into defense on melee supports). That fast Sightstone would really kick ass.
On February 16 2014 04:34 Slusher wrote: current relic shield is already stupid strong on bruiser lanes.
problem is I don't think bruiser lanes will ever amount to anything more than a cheese strat.
The problem with Face of the Mountain is that it's basically strictly worse than Crucible, and every support will buy crucible at some point. Then you add in the strength of Shurelya's and it's a no contest. Targon has great lane sustain and the gold generation isn't bad, but it's just simply not worth it to upgrade it all the way.
I'm not sure how much better the Shurelya active will be than the suggested versions of the other two.
The Frost Queens Claim active is almost identical to a slightly shorter range Leona ult, and should be quite good for engages and disengages. Depends on if they give it a missile speed / delay / whatever.
On February 16 2014 05:13 Ketara wrote: It wouldn't be awful, but I think it would be strictly worse than Relic Shield.
The stats on Relic Shield are WAY better, and it gives GP10 immediately. Targons gives more GP10 than a Sightstone.
While it's true that the stats on Relic Shield (and Targon's) are better than Ruby Crystal and Sightstone, Sightstone does beat Targon's at GP10.
Before 6 mins, melee minions give 19, casters 14, and siege minions 40/41. Between 6-12 mins, it's 20 from melee, 15 from casters, and 42/43 from siege minions. In an ideal case for Targon's, where you're getting the Siege minion and two melee's (say, at 6 - 9 mins, or more realistically 6:30 to 9:30).
42 + 20 + 20 = 82/ 90 sec, or 164 / 3 mins.
Sightstone is no longer limited to two wards at a time, so Sightstone can place 75 x 3 = 225 / 3 mins in wards.
Granted, this is an ideal case scenario for both items, but it's worth noting that while Targon's gives sustain for yourself and the carry, it also creates opportunities for your opponents to put damage on you, so some of that health regen advantage is lost because of this. Also, Sightstone can run out of charges in lane so the GP10 can stop if you run out of charges.
One thing I would like to note, though, is that because of the spammability of wards from Sightstone, someone opening Ruby Crystal could benefit from a Sweeper trinket rather than Ward trinket. The opposing support is going to have a hard time winning the ward wars after the first back if you have 4 spammable wards and a sweeper. Of course, that means you have to start w/ a Sweeper trinket.
Am I saying that I think Ruby -> Sightstone first is necessarily better than Relic -> Targon's first? No, but it looks like a fair option at these prices. Additionally, not every support is going to want to head down the Targon's line.
On February 16 2014 06:10 Ketara wrote: I'm not sure how much better the Shurelya active will be than the suggested versions of the other two.
The Frost Queens Claim active is almost identical to a slightly shorter range Leona ult, and should be quite good for engages and disengages. Depends on if they give it a missile speed / delay / whatever.
not being able to stun is much worse than Leona ult. Plus, Shurelya's is likely still going to be more useful for engages/disengages depending on how fast the Frost Queen Claim active projectile is. It's stated that it will be a projectile.
Feel like the Gragas nerfs are very strong. He won't have much Lane presence until 6 now IMO. Still don't understand why they keep with the Midlane focus when Top is so toxic right now.
But then I run into issues like this patch where I want to group things like the support item changes for easier readability. Thinking about adding in groupings in Green or Blue. Thoughts?
On February 19 2014 08:00 cLutZ wrote: Feel like the Gragas nerfs are very strong. He won't have much Lane presence until 6 now IMO. Still don't understand why they keep with the Midlane focus when Top is so toxic right now.
He deserves it though. No champ should have his tankiness, sustain, mobility and AoE burst. Not to mention the utility on his ult.
I think they want to see how the nerf to perseverance and upcoming dshield change affect top first. My personal bug bear is why the fuck haven't they touched Elise. She impacts 100% of pro games, and has been for an epoch. Sort that shit out.
I disagree with the notion of that though. His E maybe should be less forgiving, but he needs burst to be relevant because his sustained damage is bleh. And he needs tankiness because hes melle.
The reason I dont like it is because I think the utility on his ult is very meta dependent. Since no AP can really kill the popular tops right now, the best thing to do is shoot them away and give the whole team more time. I doubt people would argue that Ori has more utility, but shes less popular right now because its not necessarily the right utility for this meta.
Why would they nerf Elise instead of buffing other jungler ? I really dislike how they take the easy way of nerfing a champion instead of buffing others (like Jarvan, Xin, Nautilus, Hecarim, etc..). Besides they already nerfed Elise a lot, I don't want them to gut her because she's really fun to watch/play with
On February 19 2014 16:35 cLutZ wrote: I disagree with the notion of that though. His E maybe should be less forgiving, but he needs burst to be relevant because his sustained damage is bleh. And he needs tankiness because hes melle.
The reason I dont like it is because I think the utility on his ult is very meta dependent. Since no AP can really kill the popular tops right now, the best thing to do is shoot them away and give the whole team more time. I doubt people would argue that Ori has more utility, but shes less popular right now because its not necessarily the right utility for this meta.
He has poke though, you can't really have poke and burst. He just has too much of everything.
You're right on his utility being relevant though. Still doesn't excuse the rest of his power.
On February 19 2014 16:47 Lylat wrote: Why would they nerf Elise instead of buffing other jungler ? I really dislike how they take the easy way of nerfing a champion instead of buffing others (like Jarvan, Xin, Nautilus, Hecarim, etc..). Besides they already nerfed Elise a lot, I don't want them to gut her because she's really fun to watch/play with
This is also another option that I can get on board with. I'd be quite happy to not see Elise competitively for a year though.
On February 19 2014 16:27 JazzVortical wrote:My personal bug bear is why the fuck haven't they touched Elise. She impacts 100% of pro games, and has been for an epoch. Sort that shit out.
Riot's balance method is that they like to have a measuring stick. Renekton, for example is the measuring stick for top lane. You can be weaker in lane than Renekton. You can be slightly stronger in lane than Renekton. But you are not allowed to poop all over Renekton. If you are, you get nerfed, hopefully, to Renektonish levels. Elise is either a) the benchmark or b) slightly "better" than the benchmark, whom I assume is Lee Sin.
When picked in OGN winter, she had a 53.1% winrate. While above 50%, this also puts her in 13th spot compared to to other champions with at least 20 pick/bans. These champions are: Kassadin- 80% Nidalee- 71.4% Annie- 64.3% Vayne- 64.3% Olaf- 61.9% Ezreal- 61.1% Lee Sin- 60.7% Sivir- 57.1% Thresh- 55% Orianna- 54.2% Shyvana- 53.3% Rengar- 53.3% Elise- 53.1% Mundo- 46.7% Gragas- 45.5% Riven- 45% Lucian- 37.8% Caitlyn- 31.6%
On February 19 2014 16:35 cLutZ wrote: I disagree with the notion of that though. His E maybe should be less forgiving, but he needs burst to be relevant because his sustained damage is bleh. And he needs tankiness because hes melle.
The reason I dont like it is because I think the utility on his ult is very meta dependent. Since no AP can really kill the popular tops right now, the best thing to do is shoot them away and give the whole team more time. I doubt people would argue that Ori has more utility, but shes less popular right now because its not necessarily the right utility for this meta.
He has poke though, you can't really have poke and burst. He just has too much of everything.
You're right on his utility being relevant though. Still doesn't excuse the rest of his power.
On February 19 2014 16:47 Lylat wrote: Why would they nerf Elise instead of buffing other jungler ? I really dislike how they take the easy way of nerfing a champion instead of buffing others (like Jarvan, Xin, Nautilus, Hecarim, etc..). Besides they already nerfed Elise a lot, I don't want them to gut her because she's really fun to watch/play with
This is also another option that I can get on board with. I'd be quite happy to not see Elise competitively for a year though.
Lots of champs have poke and burst. Leblanc is another FOTM I can think of, Lux does, Brand and Xerath would if they were balanced, Sivier and Corki do from AD.
Its just that he is melle, so they give him tankiness, which he needs, but they also gave him the Roam/Safety with E. But E needs to be more of a tradeoff than it is now, much like how Kass ult becomes an issue. I think he is surely strong, but is just a bit too safe. Thats the same issue with Renekton, in many ways.
On February 19 2014 16:27 JazzVortical wrote:My personal bug bear is why the fuck haven't they touched Elise. She impacts 100% of pro games, and has been for an epoch. Sort that shit out.
Riot's balance method is that they like to have a measuring stick. Renekton, for example is the measuring stick for top lane. You can be weaker in lane than Renekton. You can be slightly stronger in lane than Renekton. But you are not allowed to poop all over Renekton. If you are, you get nerfed, hopefully, to Renektonish levels. Elise is either a) the benchmark or b) slightly "better" than the benchmark, whom I assume is Lee Sin.
When picked in OGN winter, she had a 53.1% winrate. While above 50%, this also puts her in 13th spot compared to to other champions with at least 20 pick/bans. These champions are: Kassadin- 80% Nidalee- 71.4% Annie- 64.3% Vayne- 64.3% Olaf- 61.9% Ezreal- 61.1% Lee Sin- 60.7% Sivir- 57.1% Thresh- 55% Orianna- 54.2% Shyvana- 53.3% Rengar- 53.3% Elise- 53.1% Mundo- 46.7% Gragas- 45.5% Riven- 45% Lucian- 37.8% Caitlyn- 31.6%
I don't care that win rate wise she is balanced. I care that she impacts on 100% of competitive games. She is either banned or picked (often as first pick) in every game. Having a champ be that ubiquitous in a cast of over a hundred is not good for the game. It is old. It strangles potential picks and bans, and by extension strategy.
On February 19 2014 16:35 cLutZ wrote: I disagree with the notion of that though. His E maybe should be less forgiving, but he needs burst to be relevant because his sustained damage is bleh. And he needs tankiness because hes melle.
The reason I dont like it is because I think the utility on his ult is very meta dependent. Since no AP can really kill the popular tops right now, the best thing to do is shoot them away and give the whole team more time. I doubt people would argue that Ori has more utility, but shes less popular right now because its not necessarily the right utility for this meta.
He has poke though, you can't really have poke and burst. He just has too much of everything.
You're right on his utility being relevant though. Still doesn't excuse the rest of his power.
On February 19 2014 16:47 Lylat wrote: Why would they nerf Elise instead of buffing other jungler ? I really dislike how they take the easy way of nerfing a champion instead of buffing others (like Jarvan, Xin, Nautilus, Hecarim, etc..). Besides they already nerfed Elise a lot, I don't want them to gut her because she's really fun to watch/play with
This is also another option that I can get on board with. I'd be quite happy to not see Elise competitively for a year though.
Lots of champs have poke and burst. Leblanc is another FOTM I can think of, Lux does, Brand and Xerath would if they were balanced, Sivier and Corki do from AD.
Its just that he is melle, so they give him tankiness, which he needs, but they also gave him the Roam/Safety with E. But E needs to be more of a tradeoff than it is now, much like how Kass ult becomes an issue. I think he is surely strong, but is just a bit too safe. Thats the same issue with Renekton, in many ways.
That's the point. He can't have the mix of everything he does currently.
On February 19 2014 16:27 JazzVortical wrote:My personal bug bear is why the fuck haven't they touched Elise. She impacts 100% of pro games, and has been for an epoch. Sort that shit out.
Riot's balance method is that they like to have a measuring stick. Renekton, for example is the measuring stick for top lane. You can be weaker in lane than Renekton. You can be slightly stronger in lane than Renekton. But you are not allowed to poop all over Renekton. If you are, you get nerfed, hopefully, to Renektonish levels. Elise is either a) the benchmark or b) slightly "better" than the benchmark, whom I assume is Lee Sin.
When picked in OGN winter, she had a 53.1% winrate. While above 50%, this also puts her in 13th spot compared to to other champions with at least 20 pick/bans. These champions are: Kassadin- 80% Nidalee- 71.4% Annie- 64.3% Vayne- 64.3% Olaf- 61.9% Ezreal- 61.1% Lee Sin- 60.7% Sivir- 57.1% Thresh- 55% Orianna- 54.2% Shyvana- 53.3% Rengar- 53.3% Elise- 53.1% Mundo- 46.7% Gragas- 45.5% Riven- 45% Lucian- 37.8% Caitlyn- 31.6%
I don't care that win rate wise she is balanced. I care that she impacts on 100% of competitive games. She is either banned or picked (often as first pick) in every game. Having a champ be that ubiquitous in a cast of over a hundred is not good for the game. It is old. It strangles potential picks and bans, and by extension strategy.
How big the game's roster is doesn't matter. There will always be characters that won't get picked in a tournament. Despite this, 75 of the 117(64%) of the champions were used in OGN winter. Who would that 76th champion be in situations where Elise was ignored? Do you really think it'd make a difference on the way the game is played?
On February 19 2014 16:27 JazzVortical wrote:My personal bug bear is why the fuck haven't they touched Elise. She impacts 100% of pro games, and has been for an epoch. Sort that shit out.
Riot's balance method is that they like to have a measuring stick. Renekton, for example is the measuring stick for top lane. You can be weaker in lane than Renekton. You can be slightly stronger in lane than Renekton. But you are not allowed to poop all over Renekton. If you are, you get nerfed, hopefully, to Renektonish levels. Elise is either a) the benchmark or b) slightly "better" than the benchmark, whom I assume is Lee Sin.
When picked in OGN winter, she had a 53.1% winrate. While above 50%, this also puts her in 13th spot compared to to other champions with at least 20 pick/bans. These champions are: Kassadin- 80% Nidalee- 71.4% Annie- 64.3% Vayne- 64.3% Olaf- 61.9% Ezreal- 61.1% Lee Sin- 60.7% Sivir- 57.1% Thresh- 55% Orianna- 54.2% Shyvana- 53.3% Rengar- 53.3% Elise- 53.1% Mundo- 46.7% Gragas- 45.5% Riven- 45% Lucian- 37.8% Caitlyn- 31.6%
I don't care that win rate wise she is balanced. I care that she impacts on 100% of competitive games. She is either banned or picked (often as first pick) in every game. Having a champ be that ubiquitous in a cast of over a hundred is not good for the game. It is old. It strangles potential picks and bans, and by extension strategy.
How big the game's roster is doesn't matter. There will always be characters that won't get picked in a tournament. Despite this, 75 of the 117(64%) of the champions were used in OGN winter. Who would that 76th champion be in situations where Elise was ignored? Do you really think it'd make a difference on the way the game is played?
impossible to say, but in my books at least, it would have made that particular game a lot more interesting to watch, regardless of whether it worked or not.
On February 19 2014 16:35 cLutZ wrote: I disagree with the notion of that though. His E maybe should be less forgiving, but he needs burst to be relevant because his sustained damage is bleh. And he needs tankiness because hes melle.
The reason I dont like it is because I think the utility on his ult is very meta dependent. Since no AP can really kill the popular tops right now, the best thing to do is shoot them away and give the whole team more time. I doubt people would argue that Ori has more utility, but shes less popular right now because its not necessarily the right utility for this meta.
He has poke though, you can't really have poke and burst. He just has too much of everything.
You're right on his utility being relevant though. Still doesn't excuse the rest of his power.
On February 19 2014 16:47 Lylat wrote: Why would they nerf Elise instead of buffing other jungler ? I really dislike how they take the easy way of nerfing a champion instead of buffing others (like Jarvan, Xin, Nautilus, Hecarim, etc..). Besides they already nerfed Elise a lot, I don't want them to gut her because she's really fun to watch/play with
This is also another option that I can get on board with. I'd be quite happy to not see Elise competitively for a year though.
Lots of champs have poke and burst. Leblanc is another FOTM I can think of, Lux does, Brand and Xerath would if they were balanced, Sivier and Corki do from AD.
Its just that he is melle, so they give him tankiness, which he needs, but they also gave him the Roam/Safety with E. But E needs to be more of a tradeoff than it is now, much like how Kass ult becomes an issue. I think he is surely strong, but is just a bit too safe. Thats the same issue with Renekton, in many ways.
That's the point. He can't have the mix of everything he does currently.
On February 19 2014 16:35 cLutZ wrote: I disagree with the notion of that though. His E maybe should be less forgiving, but he needs burst to be relevant because his sustained damage is bleh. And he needs tankiness because hes melle.
The reason I dont like it is because I think the utility on his ult is very meta dependent. Since no AP can really kill the popular tops right now, the best thing to do is shoot them away and give the whole team more time. I doubt people would argue that Ori has more utility, but shes less popular right now because its not necessarily the right utility for this meta.
He has poke though, you can't really have poke and burst. He just has too much of everything.
You're right on his utility being relevant though. Still doesn't excuse the rest of his power.
On February 19 2014 16:47 Lylat wrote: Why would they nerf Elise instead of buffing other jungler ? I really dislike how they take the easy way of nerfing a champion instead of buffing others (like Jarvan, Xin, Nautilus, Hecarim, etc..). Besides they already nerfed Elise a lot, I don't want them to gut her because she's really fun to watch/play with
This is also another option that I can get on board with. I'd be quite happy to not see Elise competitively for a year though.
Lots of champs have poke and burst. Leblanc is another FOTM I can think of, Lux does, Brand and Xerath would if they were balanced, Sivier and Corki do from AD.
Its just that he is melle, so they give him tankiness, which he needs, but they also gave him the Roam/Safety with E. But E needs to be more of a tradeoff than it is now, much like how Kass ult becomes an issue. I think he is surely strong, but is just a bit too safe. Thats the same issue with Renekton, in many ways.
That's the point. He can't have the mix of everything he does currently.
Im just saying these nerfs are quite harsh.
Compared to what they proposed pre 4.2, they're pretty tame.
man I just saw your math on the MF Q changes, those AD break evens are basically 6 slot which is that said you'll be able to cast double up probably more than twice as often in lane making it more damage over time in the lane phase but less burst.
On February 21 2014 08:02 cLutZ wrote: But, they are nerfing the talisman line no? And traditional supports already are bad no?
Buffing tier 1, nerfing tier 2, and tier 3 is still stupid. Frost Queen line is getting a massive buff. Mountain line is getting improvements.
Well, I really fear the "mountain line" supports. Don't get me wrong, I love Alistar and Leona, and I think Annie (obviously not mountain, but also popular) is fun, but its not good for those to be the mainstream picks. I prefer a botlane with those champs as niche picks for teams that want a kill lane bot, or need engage they cant get elsewhere. Having engage botlanes be standard crowds out the rest of the picks. Whereas, even when Zyra and Sona were very strong, there was always a place for Leona in teams.
On February 21 2014 08:02 cLutZ wrote: But, they are nerfing the talisman line no? And traditional supports already are bad no?
Buffing tier 1, nerfing tier 2, and tier 3 is still stupid. Frost Queen line is getting a massive buff. Mountain line is getting improvements.
Well, I really fear the "mountain line" supports. Don't get me wrong, I love Alistar and Leona, and I think Annie (obviously not mountain, but also popular) is fun, but its not good for those to be the mainstream picks. I prefer a botlane with those champs as niche picks for teams that want a kill lane bot, or need engage they cant get elsewhere. Having engage botlanes be standard crowds out the rest of the picks. Whereas, even when Zyra and Sona were very strong, there was always a place for Leona in teams.
I agree, which is why I think Talisman needs a nerf. There' no reason it gives the most CDR while have the, subjectively, best active. Everything else at tier 3 becomes a wash and isn't what you have the item for.
On February 27 2014 06:43 cLutZ wrote: How about those 3.3 Tear changes? Free Mana all day even without spells seems like a large buff to the Nomicon+Tear route to compete with Athenes.
On February 27 2014 06:43 cLutZ wrote: How about those 3.3 Tear changes? Free Mana all day even without spells seems like a large buff to the Nomicon+Tear route to compete with Athenes.
You mean the 7.5 mana/minute?
It speeds up the Tear breakpoint for Tear related items by ~2-5 minutes, though it is certainly a weak change, yes.
I like that they had the forsight to undo the Fizz nerf if they are going to nerf lichbane that hard (which is warrented imo) but Kayle might need a bit of the same love as well (at least back to .8)
On March 01 2014 05:58 Slusher wrote: I like that they had the forsight to undo the Fizz nerf if they are going to nerf lichbane that hard (which is warrented imo) but Kayle might need a bit of the same love as well (at least back to .8)
well thats your view of things and mine is that even before her nerfs (which is with a 1.0 Q) she would not have been OP with this version of lich bane.
On March 01 2014 10:17 Slusher wrote: well thats your view of things and mine is that even before her nerfs (which is with a 1.0 Q) she would not have been OP with this version of lich bane.
pls don't confuse strong/playable with OP
And my view is that I don't think anything that gives her strong burst is good, considering her sustained damage.
Anyway, I'm glad they are finally starting to hit Annie, and in what seems like the right area.
I'm so glad they aren't just flat nerfing annie, I love playing her mid. It's pretty much a buff, more damage after 250 ap, so after 2-3 items you're actually doing considerably more damage. Her late game is going to be even more scary for squishies.
I wonder if the new Wriggles path will help some junglers. Lee and Yi seem obvious, but what about someone like Nocturne? Or are the spirit items just still an too good compared to Wriggles path?
Surrender at 20 seems to list a .1 AP ratio buff on Twisted Fate W (.4->.5) which you didn't list here. Also it listed Fizz W buff as .15->.25 AP. I am confused.
On March 02 2014 02:22 phyvo wrote: Surrender at 20 seems to list a .1 AP ratio buff on Twisted Fate W (.4->.5) which you didn't list here. Also it listed Fizz W buff as .15->.25 AP. I am confused.
The TF buff was from the first update, which is in the overall changes. The Fizz buff to .35 was a typo on my part.
Reignofgaming's bot patch notes tend to be inaccurate, you really have to confirm them in game before getting excited about them. For instance, it makes zero sense that he'd have a 0.3 mana ratio on an auto attack and a 0.1 ratio on his ultimate. Meanwhile the ratio can't possibly be 0.3 * max mana, that would be 600 damage per auto with a seraphs, ridiculous.
Currently though Kassadin crashes the game so I can't confirm anything.
Just did a 20 minute power jungler on shyvana. Went AS/armor/mr/movespeed, 9/21/0, only used burnout to travel camps when going golems to wight because nothing else was up and forced myself to back when buffs respawned when I was outustaining the jungle, and only took camps in my jungle. Had a couple pathing issues from overestimating damage and tiny bit of lag.
Results: Feral Flare acquired 1 or 2 camps after wriggles at around 11:XX. Could have picked up some Tiamat parts when I got wriggles, but when I started I didn't put any forthought in what I'd do after. Finished with Feral Flare, boots1, and 3k unspent gold. I don't know how much bonus gold I got since it doesn't have a counter.
Obviously, doing suicides back and forth in the jungle for 20 minutes won't work in a real game, but hitting 5k income on purely jungle was insane. I could have dropped that 3k into a Randuin's.
If anybody wants me to do another run with a different farmy jungler, I'll give it a go. Unfortunately, left games don't leave a replay file so I can't check how much bonus damage I had. I think I'm going to redo this later today.
I just did a similar thing with Jax but I finished boots 2 (mercs) instead of leaving it at boots1 and ended with 1886 gold and level 13 at 20 minutes. 30 stacks on Feral flare, level 13. I took buffs whenever they were up but mainly backed when it was convenient, that is, soon after I could upgrade to madreds + boots1, or wriggles, or tiamat. Forgot where I fit boots2 in there. Earned about ~680 gold from wriggles/FF passive (that's 6 GP/10 though obviously it increased clear speed too). Timing for FF upgrade was similar (I didn't mark it down), I had about 22 upgrade stacks when I first finished wriggles so I got it really quick. I ran ad marks/quints 21/9/0.
I'm not much of a jungler so I'm sure I could have been more optimized, though IMO it's hard to imagine a universe where the jungler has no lane presence for 10 minutes let alone 20. Pretty impressed that Jax could keep up fairly well with shyv nonetheless (if I hadn't bought mercs that'd be 2789 leftover gold) though I could be missing something here.
On March 02 2014 20:56 Gahlo wrote: Just did a 20 minute power jungler on shyvana. Went AS/armor/mr/movespeed, 9/21/0, only used burnout to travel camps when going golems to wight because nothing else was up and forced myself to back when buffs respawned when I was outustaining the jungle, and only took camps in my jungle. Had a couple pathing issues from overestimating damage and tiny bit of lag.
Results: Feral Flare acquired 1 or 2 camps after wriggles at around 11:XX. Could have picked up some Tiamat parts when I got wriggles, but when I started I didn't put any forthought in what I'd do after. Finished with Feral Flare, boots1, and 3k unspent gold. I don't know how much bonus gold I got since it doesn't have a counter.
Obviously, doing suicides back and forth in the jungle for 20 minutes won't work in a real game, but hitting 5k income on purely jungle was insane. I could have dropped that 3k into a Randuin's.
If anybody wants me to do another run with a different farmy jungler, I'll give it a go. Unfortunately, left games don't leave a replay file so I can't check how much bonus damage I had. I think I'm going to redo this later today.
On March 02 2014 20:56 Gahlo wrote: Just did a 20 minute power jungler on shyvana. Went AS/armor/mr/movespeed, 9/21/0, only used burnout to travel camps when going golems to wight because nothing else was up and forced myself to back when buffs respawned when I was outustaining the jungle, and only took camps in my jungle. Had a couple pathing issues from overestimating damage and tiny bit of lag.
Results: Feral Flare acquired 1 or 2 camps after wriggles at around 11:XX. Could have picked up some Tiamat parts when I got wriggles, but when I started I didn't put any forthought in what I'd do after. Finished with Feral Flare, boots1, and 3k unspent gold. I don't know how much bonus gold I got since it doesn't have a counter.
Obviously, doing suicides back and forth in the jungle for 20 minutes won't work in a real game, but hitting 5k income on purely jungle was insane. I could have dropped that 3k into a Randuin's.
If anybody wants me to do another run with a different farmy jungler, I'll give it a go. Unfortunately, left games don't leave a replay file so I can't check how much bonus damage I had. I think I'm going to redo this later today.
I think Yi deserves a crack at it too.
What do you want me to build post Wriggles/boots1? Gimme rune/mastery setup too.
On March 02 2014 20:56 Gahlo wrote: Just did a 20 minute power jungler on shyvana. Went AS/armor/mr/movespeed, 9/21/0, only used burnout to travel camps when going golems to wight because nothing else was up and forced myself to back when buffs respawned when I was outustaining the jungle, and only took camps in my jungle. Had a couple pathing issues from overestimating damage and tiny bit of lag.
Results: Feral Flare acquired 1 or 2 camps after wriggles at around 11:XX. Could have picked up some Tiamat parts when I got wriggles, but when I started I didn't put any forthought in what I'd do after. Finished with Feral Flare, boots1, and 3k unspent gold. I don't know how much bonus gold I got since it doesn't have a counter.
Obviously, doing suicides back and forth in the jungle for 20 minutes won't work in a real game, but hitting 5k income on purely jungle was insane. I could have dropped that 3k into a Randuin's.
If anybody wants me to do another run with a different farmy jungler, I'll give it a go. Unfortunately, left games don't leave a replay file so I can't check how much bonus damage I had. I think I'm going to redo this later today.
I think Yi deserves a crack at it too.
What do you want me to build post Wriggles/boots1? Gimme rune/mastery setup too.
On March 02 2014 20:56 Gahlo wrote: Just did a 20 minute power jungler on shyvana. Went AS/armor/mr/movespeed, 9/21/0, only used burnout to travel camps when going golems to wight because nothing else was up and forced myself to back when buffs respawned when I was outustaining the jungle, and only took camps in my jungle. Had a couple pathing issues from overestimating damage and tiny bit of lag.
Build path:
Results: Feral Flare acquired 1 or 2 camps after wriggles at around 11:XX. Could have picked up some Tiamat parts when I got wriggles, but when I started I didn't put any forthought in what I'd do after. Finished with Feral Flare, boots1, Tiamat and 3k unspent gold. I don't know how much bonus gold I got since it doesn't have a counter.
Obviously, doing suicides back and forth in the jungle for 20 minutes won't work in a real game, but hitting 5k income on purely jungle was insane. I could have dropped that 3k into a Randuin's.
If anybody wants me to do another run with a different farmy jungler, I'll give it a go. Unfortunately, left games don't leave a replay file so I can't check how much bonus damage I had. I think I'm going to redo this later today.
I think Yi deserves a crack at it too.
What do you want me to build post Wriggles/boots1? Gimme rune/mastery setup too.
ghostblade is still king on yi i feel like.
21 0 9 or 21 9 0
ad ad armor mr/l
Machete5=>Madred's=>boots1, longsword, dagger(remaining wriggles parts)=>Wriggles + Longsword=>Brutalizer + Brawler's Glove => Ghostblade Finished with Feral Flare, Boots 1, Ghostblade, and 2065g (~150g behind Shyvana, accounting for Tiamat/Ghostblade price differences) Flare Transform at near 11 minutes exactly 193 damage on monsters, 64.3r on champions.
On March 02 2014 20:56 Gahlo wrote: Just did a 20 minute power jungler on shyvana. Went AS/armor/mr/movespeed, 9/21/0, only used burnout to travel camps when going golems to wight because nothing else was up and forced myself to back when buffs respawned when I was outustaining the jungle, and only took camps in my jungle. Had a couple pathing issues from overestimating damage and tiny bit of lag.
Build path:
Results: Feral Flare acquired 1 or 2 camps after wriggles at around 11:XX. Could have picked up some Tiamat parts when I got wriggles, but when I started I didn't put any forthought in what I'd do after. Finished with Feral Flare, boots1, Tiamat and 3k unspent gold. I don't know how much bonus gold I got since it doesn't have a counter.
Obviously, doing suicides back and forth in the jungle for 20 minutes won't work in a real game, but hitting 5k income on purely jungle was insane. I could have dropped that 3k into a Randuin's.
If anybody wants me to do another run with a different farmy jungler, I'll give it a go. Unfortunately, left games don't leave a replay file so I can't check how much bonus damage I had. I think I'm going to redo this later today.
I think Yi deserves a crack at it too.
What do you want me to build post Wriggles/boots1? Gimme rune/mastery setup too.
ghostblade is still king on yi i feel like.
21 0 9 or 21 9 0
ad ad armor mr/l
Machete5=>Madred's=>boots1, longsword, dagger(remaining wriggles parts)=>Wriggles + Longsword=>Brutalizer + Brawler's Glove => Ghostblade Finished with Feral Flare, Boots 1, Ghostblade, and 2065g (~150g behind Shyvana, accounting for Tiamat/Ghostblade price differences) Flare Transform at near 11 minutes exactly 193 damage on monsters, 64.3r on champions.
On March 03 2014 02:28 Slusher wrote: tiamat shyvana is also kinda cheating lol
If your goal is to powerfarm the jungle, I kinda expect you to get a Hydra.
not on Shyvana, burnout max is more than enough
I might do it again later, getting as much of BotRK as possible.
if you want to play it like what would be legit good vs opponents with a heartbeat you should really go sunfire into bilgewater
If it's what would be legit good, I wouldn't be running suicides in the jungle for 20 minutes. Right now I'm trying to find the most extreme this can get.
lich bane nerf - tf despite the ratio buff, won't see the light of day till they revert his W and E back to old status. Even then he won't be top tier. League of gapclosers/escapes have made him obsolete. Diana on the other hand, with her ratio buff may see some play again as lich bane was never really a core item
Lich bane nerf is crazy. Easily a 13% reduction in proc damage early game and a 25% reduction in proc damage late game, that's a HUGE nerf to the proc.
If you do count the AP bonus from lichbane on an assassin champ with a 3.0 ratio burst combo the nerf to the overall combo is only 5% early but still a hefty 15-20% late game. Still a big nerf since the proc can be up every 2 seconds. A few .1 ap ratio buffs sprinkled here and there can't possibly compensate for any champ that actually relied upon lich bane, the more likely scenario is that the champ will take the buffed ratios and buy other AP items.
On March 04 2014 04:26 phyvo wrote: Lich bane nerf is crazy. Easily a 13% reduction in proc damage early game and a 25% reduction in proc damage late game, that's a HUGE nerf to the proc.
If you do count the AP bonus from lichbane on an assassin champ with a 3.0 ratio burst combo the nerf to the overall combo is only 5% early but still a hefty 15-20% late game. Still a big nerf since the proc can be up every 2 seconds. A few .1 ap ratio buffs sprinkled here and there can't possibly compensate for any champ that actually relied upon lich bane, the more likely scenario is that the champ will take the buffed ratios and buy other AP items.
Yeah, I'm also not really getting the Diana passive buff either. She never really used Lichbane a ton before, usually choosing to go for Nashor's, and while she needs some serious help this isn't gonna do it.
On March 04 2014 05:17 Slusher wrote: Lichbane has been bonkers for a long time, Kayle, Fizz and Lulu all reached first pick/ban on the back of that item.
nerf deserved.
Well, a lot of champs achieved stupid status as a result of niche itemization. DFG Ahri was more DFG than Ahri.
I don't disagree with that I'm just glad in this case they are nerfing Lich rather than Lulu who already has shit tier ratios, except on w speed maybe but if this goes live and she does really low damage there will be a trade off for giving her farm at least.
Sooooo these Kassadin changes are pretty...intense. The way things are I don't even see what purpose he serves in the game anymore...
Edit: I guess they want to add more burst tied into his AA. I'm not a math guy but they his is AP ratios pretty hard. Although with some CDR his ult will be on a crazy low CD.
On March 04 2014 09:45 FinestHour wrote: so whats his dmg looking like with a full rqwe on a guy with some decent items
From a single QWER rotation at 18? Old: 650 +2.5AP(assuming only 1 W attack, though the duration is 5 seconds, each one adding 90 +.3AP) New: 700 +1.5AP +8% mana(W active is only a 1hit duration)
On March 04 2014 10:22 phyvo wrote: Keep in mind that the 8% max mana ratio includes base mana. Kass has 1040 at level 18 so new Kass gets another 83 base damage for free.
IDK, playing around with new Kass he feels really weird, I don't have a handle on him.
I know but I don't play Kass, so I don't know what his current or future standard build will be to convert it.
New Kass is very fluid of a kit. It makes a lot of sense within itself (which is just like old Kass, and maybe is a problem considering all the champs with idiotic kits that make very little sense). THe PBE is terrible for balance testing, but it seems to me that all 3 of the AD mids (Talon, Khazix, Zed) are now officially hard counters to Kassadin. I've lost lane handily to any of those that I have faced, and only when I was able to get a few midgame picks was I able to bring it back in 2 games vs. Zeds who were pretty bad.
I'm not a fan of the kass changes, but for different reasons. Previously Kass actually felt stupidly mobile, you could easily ult 6-8 times and with current W you refill your mana really fast. The mobility was too much and Q didn't feel that satisfying to use, but it seemed like an interesting take on Kass. Now though they've gone halfway between live Kass and what they had before and IMO this Kass is probably just a nerfed version of live Kass. Having the the ult cost double seems to me to be a clunky way of saying "you're never going to ult again within 12 seconds after your fifth ult" and the dangling mana ratio on it doesn't feel right even though it's probably there to slow down his snowballing compared to an AP ratio (like a total AD ratio vs bonus AD). IDK, if it wasn't for W mana restore I'd say it was an outright nerf compared to live.
Q also needs feedback that lets you know it *can* interupt channels, a mini-silence like Talon E. Only needs to be one tenth of a second so you can see the silence icon pop up. Currently it's completely invisible and that's not readable for the opponent, I can hardly tell I what I did myself. Such a short silence would not prevent people from countering Kass harass so I think it's safe.
On March 06 2014 02:25 phyvo wrote: I'm not a fan of the kass changes, but for different reasons. Previously Kass actually felt stupidly mobile, you could easily ult 6-8 times and with current W you refill your mana really fast. The mobility was too much and Q didn't feel that satisfying to use, but it seemed like an interesting take on Kass. Now though they've gone halfway between live Kass and what they had before and IMO this Kass is probably just a nerfed version of live Kass. Having the the ult cost double seems to me to be a clunky way of saying "you're never going to ult again within 12 seconds after your fifth ult" and the dangling mana ratio on it doesn't feel right even though it's probably there to slow down his snowballing compared to an AP ratio (like a total AD ratio vs bonus AD). IDK, if it wasn't for W mana restore I'd say it was an outright nerf compared to live.
Q also needs feedback that lets you know it *can* interupt channels, a mini-silence like Talon E. Only needs to be one tenth of a second so you can see the silence icon pop up. Currently it's completely invisible and that's not readable for the opponent, I can hardly tell I what I did myself. Such a short silence would not prevent people from countering Kass harass so I think it's safe.
I'm inclined to agree. I was hoping he'd end up with a drasticly weaker ult, but have the mana scaling cause him to fall into a tankier AP/mana type build like Ryze.
Finally Elise. In theory, making her have to build damage to get it makes sense too. I never understood her being a tank, at least thematically she seems better as a tank.
On March 06 2014 05:23 JazzVortical wrote: Finally Elise. In theory, making her have to build damage to get it makes sense too. I never understood her being a tank, at least thematically she seems better as a tank.
Honestly, I get the feeling that Elise was (or should've been) on the chopping board for a really really really long time. Since the patch after her release she's essentially always been a highly contested pick/ban. The only reason she evaded the nerf hammer for so long is because there has always been other more egregious and obvious nerf hammer targets (Ahri, Zed, Annie, etc...)
On March 06 2014 05:23 JazzVortical wrote: Finally Elise. In theory, making her have to build damage to get it makes sense too. I never understood her being a tank, at least thematically she seems better as a tank.
Honestly, I get the feeling that Elise was (or should've been) on the chopping board for a really really really long time. Since the patch after her release she's essentially always been a highly contested pick/ban. The only reason she evaded the nerf hammer for so long is because there has always been other more egregious and obvious nerf hammer targets (Ahri, Zed, Annie, etc...)
Also tbf she got hit with a ton of nerfs, they just weren't enough to kill her popularity in the Jungle.
On March 06 2014 05:23 JazzVortical wrote: Finally Elise. In theory, making her have to build damage to get it makes sense too. I never understood her being a tank, at least thematically she seems better as a tank.
Honestly, I get the feeling that Elise was (or should've been) on the chopping board for a really really really long time. Since the patch after her release she's essentially always been a highly contested pick/ban. The only reason she evaded the nerf hammer for so long is because there has always been other more egregious and obvious nerf hammer targets (Ahri, Zed, Annie, etc...)
I think it'd probably be better if you posted opinions here like the rest of us especially since then you wouldn't feel the need to comment on every little change (like Trist Q). You just get to say what you feel comfortable with when you feel comfortable with it, it's not hard to read the last page of posts anyways.
Speaking of Trist Q, they seem to be removing mana costs on attack steroids for some reason. I don't like it, it's more mana trivialization like the Kayle ult buff.
And speaking of mana trivialization I don't know how the crap they want to balance Kass with manaless W and essentially manaless Q and E because of the insane mana restore, his only skill with a relevant mana cost is stacked R. Nerfed R ratios actually prevent PBE Kass from doing as much ult damage as live Kass with the mana heavy RoA/Seraph build but they insist on keeping the low R cooldown. I'm at a loss as to their thought process. Wheel of Kassadin is right, they're changing him every single day and it's making me dizzy. Might as well just wait until he hits live.
On March 06 2014 10:57 phyvo wrote: I think it'd probably be better if you posted opinions here like the rest of us especially since then you wouldn't feel the need to comment on every little change (like Trist Q). You just get to say what you feel comfortable with when you feel comfortable with it, it's not hard to read the last page of posts anyways.
Speaking of Trist Q, they seem to be removing mana costs on attack steroids for some reason. I don't like it, it's more mana trivialization like the Kayle ult buff.
And speaking of mana trivialization I don't know how the crap they want to balance Kass with manaless W and essentially manaless Q and E because of the insane mana restore, his only skill with a relevant mana cost is stacked R. Nerfed R ratios actually prevent PBE Kass from doing as much ult damage as live Kass with the mana heavy RoA/Seraph build but they insist on keeping the low R cooldown. I'm at a loss as to their thought process. Wheel of Kassadin is right, they're changing him every single day and it's making me dizzy. Might as well just wait until he hits live.
I think they're going for "X skill defines this champion, we don't want them in a fight and not be able to use this."
Kog doesn't work without being artillery. Trist doesn't work as an AD without her attack speed because of 0 ability scalings. Irelia does crap for damage without her true damage.
On March 06 2014 10:57 phyvo wrote: I think it'd probably be better if you posted opinions here like the rest of us especially since then you wouldn't feel the need to comment on every little change (like Trist Q). You just get to say what you feel comfortable with when you feel comfortable with it, it's not hard to read the last page of posts anyways.
Speaking of Trist Q, they seem to be removing mana costs on attack steroids for some reason. I don't like it, it's more mana trivialization like the Kayle ult buff.
And speaking of mana trivialization I don't know how the crap they want to balance Kass with manaless W and essentially manaless Q and E because of the insane mana restore, his only skill with a relevant mana cost is stacked R. Nerfed R ratios actually prevent PBE Kass from doing as much ult damage as live Kass with the mana heavy RoA/Seraph build but they insist on keeping the low R cooldown. I'm at a loss as to their thought process. Wheel of Kassadin is right, they're changing him every single day and it's making me dizzy. Might as well just wait until he hits live.
I think they're going for "X skill defines this champion, we don't want them in a fight and not be able to use this."
Kog doesn't work without being artillery. Trist doesn't work as an AD without her attack speed because of 0 ability scalings. Irelia does crap for damage without her true damage.
That logic can be applied to every champ in the game though. Every champ has defining skills that they should use in a fight.
It just removes an aspect from the game and does nothing but make it easier.
On March 06 2014 10:57 phyvo wrote: I think it'd probably be better if you posted opinions here like the rest of us especially since then you wouldn't feel the need to comment on every little change (like Trist Q). You just get to say what you feel comfortable with when you feel comfortable with it, it's not hard to read the last page of posts anyways.
Speaking of Trist Q, they seem to be removing mana costs on attack steroids for some reason. I don't like it, it's more mana trivialization like the Kayle ult buff.
And speaking of mana trivialization I don't know how the crap they want to balance Kass with manaless W and essentially manaless Q and E because of the insane mana restore, his only skill with a relevant mana cost is stacked R. Nerfed R ratios actually prevent PBE Kass from doing as much ult damage as live Kass with the mana heavy RoA/Seraph build but they insist on keeping the low R cooldown. I'm at a loss as to their thought process. Wheel of Kassadin is right, they're changing him every single day and it's making me dizzy. Might as well just wait until he hits live.
I think they're going for "X skill defines this champion, we don't want them in a fight and not be able to use this."
Kog doesn't work without being artillery. Trist doesn't work as an AD without her attack speed because of 0 ability scalings. Irelia does crap for damage without her true damage.
That logic can be applied to every champ in the game though. Every champ has defining skills that they should use in a fight.
It just removes an aspect from the game and does nothing but make it easier.
On March 06 2014 10:57 phyvo wrote: I think it'd probably be better if you posted opinions here like the rest of us especially since then you wouldn't feel the need to comment on every little change (like Trist Q). You just get to say what you feel comfortable with when you feel comfortable with it, it's not hard to read the last page of posts anyways.
Speaking of Trist Q, they seem to be removing mana costs on attack steroids for some reason. I don't like it, it's more mana trivialization like the Kayle ult buff.
And speaking of mana trivialization I don't know how the crap they want to balance Kass with manaless W and essentially manaless Q and E because of the insane mana restore, his only skill with a relevant mana cost is stacked R. Nerfed R ratios actually prevent PBE Kass from doing as much ult damage as live Kass with the mana heavy RoA/Seraph build but they insist on keeping the low R cooldown. I'm at a loss as to their thought process. Wheel of Kassadin is right, they're changing him every single day and it's making me dizzy. Might as well just wait until he hits live.
I think they're going for "X skill defines this champion, we don't want them in a fight and not be able to use this."
Kog doesn't work without being artillery. Trist doesn't work as an AD without her attack speed because of 0 ability scalings. Irelia does crap for damage without her true damage.
That logic can be applied to every champ in the game though. Every champ has defining skills that they should use in a fight.
It just removes an aspect from the game and does nothing but make it easier.
I never said I agreed with it.
Fair enough
The one I find most hilarious is Ryze. His ult costs 0 and he builds nothing but mana.
Yeah, Q is 100% an upgrade from before. Free W also means it's impossible to run out of mana unless you're trying too hard with R. Which also means that if you're feeling spunky and want to build on-hit builds with max CDR for high W uptime you can now do that too with no mana issues. Manaless W feels like EZ mode Koggles except you still have worse escapes than Jinx.
Updated for the handful of small PBE patches over the last week. Only real important thing is Feral Flare's removal for more testing while they wrap it up and call it a patch.
Slightly more general question, how much of the pbe typically get's bundled into the new patch. Is the change compilation list bascially the patch notes, or do they pick a few changes from it to implement (and maybe a few not on it?)
On March 17 2014 12:25 killerdog wrote: Slightly more general question, how much of the pbe typically get's bundled into the new patch. Is the change compilation list bascially the patch notes, or do they pick a few changes from it to implement (and maybe a few not on it?)
I'd say about 95%+ of the changes that are on the PBE when the patch comes out makes it into the patch. Sometimes there are things that Riot will add to the patch without putting on there. This late into the patch cycle the PBE is pretty settled and near ready to ship. As always with the PBE, the changes might not stay the exact same or might not get changed at all. Nothing is guaranteed until it's in official patch notes.
Panth also getting wrecked. It's like Riot forgot that they tried the whole make Pantheon stun scale from shit and how much that gutted the champion. Except this time they want to go even further and lower the level 1 stun to 0.5 seconds - that's even less than Riven stun.
I crunched the numbers and assuming your targets start with 0 stacks it's a flat out nerf except at rank 3 with, like, 0 bonus AD. From base damage + impure shots you get like 5-9 magic damage per shot depending on rank and level. Live ratio is .35 bonus AD, PBE ratio averages to .27 AD at 16 (a bit less at earlier levels) except the bonus damage is magic which is bad news for MF (I remember the change to all-physical actually being a big deal for her).
As a result I don't understand the mindset of this change. Is a lower damage lower cooldown Q and the ability to leave impure shots at 1 point really so powerful that the ultimate had to be nerfed? I'll also have to test and see if Q screws up your impure shot stacks... in which case I really can't see in what universe these changes could be considered not nerfs.
On March 21 2014 13:45 phyvo wrote: I crunched the numbers and assuming your targets start with 0 stacks it's a flat out nerf except at rank 3 with, like, 0 bonus AD. From base damage + impure shots you get like 5-9 magic damage per shot depending on rank and level. Live ratio is .35 bonus AD, PBE ratio averages to .27 AD at 16 (a bit less at earlier levels) except the bonus damage is magic which is bad news for MF (I remember the change to all-physical actually being a big deal for her).
As a result I don't understand the mindset of this change. Is a lower damage lower cooldown Q and the ability to leave impure shots at 1 point really so powerful that the ultimate had to be nerfed? I'll also have to test and see if Q screws up your impure shot stacks... in which case I really can't see in what universe these changes could be considered not nerfs.
What do you mean by "if Q screws up your impure shot stacks"?
On March 21 2014 13:45 phyvo wrote: I crunched the numbers and assuming your targets start with 0 stacks it's a flat out nerf except at rank 3 with, like, 0 bonus AD. From base damage + impure shots you get like 5-9 magic damage per shot depending on rank and level. Live ratio is .35 bonus AD, PBE ratio averages to .27 AD at 16 (a bit less at earlier levels) except the bonus damage is magic which is bad news for MF (I remember the change to all-physical actually being a big deal for her).
As a result I don't understand the mindset of this change. Is a lower damage lower cooldown Q and the ability to leave impure shots at 1 point really so powerful that the ultimate had to be nerfed? I'll also have to test and see if Q screws up your impure shot stacks... in which case I really can't see in what universe these changes could be considered not nerfs.
What do you mean by "if Q screws up your impure shot stacks"?
I was mixed up and thought that attacking a new target caused a reset like Vayne silver bolts. Q applies all on hit effects so it applies impure shots, so that would have been awkward. Just another case where reading the wiki would have saved time and consternation.
I feel like they're pretty bent on making Gragas a jungler at this rate. Body slam with that high of a base damage, a stun/knockback, and a slow on his q. Yeesh.
Also holy crap at the buff to alacrity and distortion boots. I'm drooling over +40% movespeed with ghost as Olaf. :> Dunno why they're buffing and making captain boots when stampede type comps are already really strong. To make up for the nerf to Lulu's movespeed buff? 600 gold is still a lot for something like that though (when you could just get Talisman on a support which has a much larger effect, even if it is limited and costs more).
I'm a little surprised that's all they're looking at modifying on Lulu too.
On March 22 2014 18:40 zer0das wrote: I feel like they're pretty bent on making Gragas a jungler at this rate. Body slam with that high of a base damage, a stun/knockback, and a slow on his q. Yeesh.
Also holy crap at the buff to alacrity and distortion boots. I'm drooling over +40% movespeed with ghost as Olaf. :> Dunno why they're buffing and making captain boots when stampede type comps are already really strong. To make up for the nerf to Lulu's movespeed buff? 600 gold is still a lot for something like that though (when you could just get Talisman on a support which has a much larger effect, even if it is limited and costs more).
I'm a little surprised that's all they're looking at modifying on Lulu too.
Having a MS scaling that high on anybody that is expected to have a healthy amount of AP is silly. 100AP gives as much movement speed as triforce now.
Trying out bolding the changed assets name or the pretties. Made the new/reiterated changes bold on the compiled list for people that want to see the overall new iterations in full context.
when you say jawns i have no idea what you're talking about even though i grew up in the 80's/90's where jawns was actually a legit slang word that people occasionally used.
On March 26 2014 07:46 chalice wrote: when you say jawns i have no idea what you're talking about even though i grew up in the 80's/90's where jawns was actually a legit slang word that people occasionally used.
It doesn't help, in retrospect, that jawn is largely a Philadelphia centric term. I mean the name of the champion/item/whathave you that got changed.
On March 26 2014 07:46 chalice wrote: when you say jawns i have no idea what you're talking about even though i grew up in the 80's/90's where jawns was actually a legit slang word that people occasionally used.
It doesn't help, in retrospect, that jawn is largely a Philadelphia centric term. I mean the name of the champion/item/whathave you that got changed.
yeah im from de, pretty sure im legit the only person that had any idea what you were going for.
Why the fuck they are nerfing Rengar again? How much weaker he has to become? I don't get, he is not even picked now or something. Looks like its cooldown based, every 3-4 patched no matter of game state - nerf rengard,..
On March 26 2014 15:54 M2 wrote: Why the fuck they are nerfing Rengar again? How much weaker he has to become? I don't get, he is not even picked now or something. Looks like its cooldown based, every 3-4 patched no matter of game state - nerf rengard,..
On March 26 2014 15:54 M2 wrote: Why the fuck they are nerfing Rengar again? How much weaker he has to become? I don't get, he is not even picked now or something. Looks like its cooldown based, every 3-4 patched no matter of game state - nerf rengard,..
On March 26 2014 15:54 M2 wrote: Why the fuck they are nerfing Rengar again? How much weaker he has to become? I don't get, he is not even picked now or something. Looks like its cooldown based, every 3-4 patched no matter of game state - nerf rengard,..
Because he is always a balance risk because of the stupid kit.
I watched some rengar rework PBE stream and changes look kind of all right, I mean they took stuff from him and gave others, so lets say is ok, but 1 thing I did not get, now you cannot see people in bushes when you are in ulti mode, so you only see what you would have see anyway without the infrared, so the infrared is just kind of a burden, coz sometimes you can't recognize your target when they are clutched together, but gives you no advantages at all, better leave the vision normal
edit: perhaps he can see invisible champs during infrared though..anyway not seeing inside bushes is huge nerf
On April 03 2014 02:36 cLutZ wrote: Why. He's not like corki and lucian where they ruin bot lane when good.
Because he did, then they tried to kill him and he could still contest a good corki. Then they killed him again.
Since then Riot's just said silly things like "He's good, just not played by anybody"(a lie) and "doesn't fit the meta"(when he does at times.)
When the first rumblings about Diana needing some help happened, another champion that was super strong on release and nerfed over and over into the aether, Phreak came out with another "I think she's fine." excuse.
At this point, I'd honestly be surprised if we ever see Graves as a popular pick again barring a rework.
Thoughts: Rumble - Riot thinking of putting some truth into the "Rumble in the Jungle" skin? Twitch - Probably mistakes with the VU files having pre rune rework values, like the Vayne mistake Vayne - File mixup from adding SKT Vayne Soul Anchor - It's fast, it's fun, it's Dominion!
On April 05 2014 07:28 JazzVortical wrote: Why the 0 health regen value though? You wouldn't think that would be VU related.
Because when a champion gets it's health regen tanked, it's for a reason(Riven's shield supposed to be her damage mitigation, Regnar having his heal.) Twitch has no such countermeasures.
I have to say I actually like the twitch visual update. It's different and some of his lines are (for the lack of a better term) a little cheesy but after comparing Riot's stuff to smaller (non-DotA) mobas I can really appreciate their character work.
On May 28 2014 12:33 Sufficiency wrote: Do you think it was a buff? I am actually not 100% sure on that one... on paper, it looks like a nerf in certain situations and buff in other ones.
Well, the "nothing really changed" was just there to fill the space and a sad attempt to be sarcastic.
4.7 changes were huge nerfs both to Q and R. You put nerf in quotation marks as though you're unsure. You also noted that "nothing really changed," which is completely untrue. If that was sarcasm, it's a really bad attempt at sarcasm since you didn't denote that in any way plus.
On May 28 2014 12:47 Slusher wrote: you look at the numbers and I want to say rip, but then I think of the hitbox on evolved W combined with 50% slow and I'm not so sure.
On May 28 2014 12:47 Slusher wrote: you look at the numbers and I want to say rip, but then I think of the hitbox on evolved W combined with 50% slow and I'm not so sure.
On June 05 2014 23:54 TheSinisterRed wrote: I am really excited to see how Nid feels after all these changes. Getting used to the targeting in pounce and swipe will take a while.
If you ever played Riven, it should feel exactly like her q when hovering shit.
On June 05 2014 23:54 TheSinisterRed wrote: I am really excited to see how Nid feels after all these changes. Getting used to the targeting in pounce and swipe will take a while.
If you ever played Riven, it should feel exactly like her q when hovering shit.
Ah, good to know. I've only played a handful of Riven games, but the q wasn't that hard to get used to. This change should really help bring Nid in line with other champs in terms of how dashes work.
The Kayle and Jax changes seem to fundamentally misunderstand the teleport issue, and I don't see how the ZAC change makes him healthier. They should try to get him away from the free sustain model of blob pickups, not force him into it even more.
On June 21 2014 14:46 cLutZ wrote: Well that's the point for jax, in particular. His power is very tp reliant because it makes his pre 6 pre cutlass almost irrelevant.
It's to deal with how ridiculously tanky he gets when he doesn't even build any till 3rd item.
On June 21 2014 14:46 cLutZ wrote: Well that's the point for jax, in particular. His power is very tp reliant because it makes his pre 6 pre cutlass almost irrelevant.
It's to deal with how ridiculously tanky he gets when he doesn't even build any till 3rd item.
Well that was never a problem before they eliminated laning phase from the game for competent toplaners.
On June 21 2014 14:46 cLutZ wrote: Well that's the point for jax, in particular. His power is very tp reliant because it makes his pre 6 pre cutlass almost irrelevant.
It's to deal with how ridiculously tanky he gets when he doesn't even build any till 3rd item.
Well that was never a problem before they eliminated laning phase from the game for competent toplaners.
Well its also for SoloQ. Same skill level Renektons/Shyvanas would be 50+ CS and 1+ Levels ahead of a Jax by the time they took his tower, but now they cant, because teleport.
Jax wouldn't be nearly as strong as he is right now without teleport basically making it impossible to shove him out of lane to the point he misses a substantial amount of exp/gold. If they want to nerf his base stats, I guess that's okay, but that signals they have no real intention of getting rid of the reduced cooldown on teleport to towers (even if they lessened it), which in my mind has made top lane a hell of a lot more boring and less about 1v1 skill.
Obviously they seem to think that's a good thing because it improves participation in team fights, but reduced cooldown teleport has really helped egged on marginalizing top laners, even if it isn't the primary cause. What's the point of feeding your top laner if the worst thing that's going to happen is that their opponent backs off, and teleports right back to defend tower? You basically have to be a split push god for it to be worth it (ie, Jax).
So I'm pretty sure they're doing the Jax change with tp in mind.
On June 22 2014 03:43 zer0das wrote: Jax wouldn't be nearly as strong as he is right now without teleport basically making it impossible to shove him out of lane to the point he misses a substantial amount of exp/gold. If they want to nerf his base stats, I guess that's okay, but that signals they have no real intention of getting rid of the reduced cooldown on teleport to towers (even if they lessened it), which in my mind has made top lane a hell of a lot more boring and less about 1v1 skill.
Obviously they seem to think that's a good thing because it improves participation in team fights, but reduced cooldown teleport has really helped egged on marginalizing top laners, even if it isn't the primary cause. What's the point of feeding your top laner if the worst thing that's going to happen is that their opponent backs off, and teleports right back to defend tower? You basically have to be a split push god for it to be worth it (ie, Jax).
So I'm pretty sure they're doing the Jax change with tp in mind.
They just nerfed the deduced cooldown by 40 seconds 4 days ago, pay attention. It's only a 20 second discount now.
300 seconds to 240 seconds. 60 second reduction, 40 of which was removed. I said they lessened it? Maybe you should pay attention and not be passive aggressive.
If implies conditionality on the future. You really need to learn what passive aggressiveness looks like. Maybe you should stop complaining about how TP is making top lane skill-less and realize it's been that way for a long time, but only Fnatic was abusing it for a while.
Looks like Riot has succumbed to the pressure of everyone shitting on what they did to ADCs and BT and gave it a free buff (which might make it give even more AD than previously once you reach a certain AD threshold, the math-y people can do it for me), and the changes to SotAG seem interesting as well, but losing it's Tenacity passive is HUGE.
Urgot splash page update is meh. The other big change is cost to Machete, which means no more simple machete + 5 pot start, which might hurt the oddball jungle champs (Kayle jumps out at me).
the initial nerf to BT was a mistake though, if their stated reason for buffing IE was to make multiple build paths viable, making BT one of the worst ad items in the game was not going to accomplish that, IE was just going to replace BT and Bork was going to keep it's zone on lock.
The lifesteal on BT is still nerfed pretty heavily so the BT sorta fills the "I just want a shitload of AD" item, kinda like Deathcap, or I guess exactly now.
giving BT the %ad passive was probably the idea all along, they just wanted to lower people's expectations and make sure that it did in fact suck without the passive first.
I kinda like it, actually my only disappointment is that all of those idiots who though deathcap was unfair (That there was no ad equivalent) will feel vindicated.
On June 26 2014 11:21 Kinie wrote: Looks like Riot has succumbed to the pressure of everyone shitting on what they did to ADCs and BT and gave it a free buff (which might make it give even more AD than previously once you reach a certain AD threshold, the math-y people can do it for me), and the changes to SotAG seem interesting as well, but losing it's Tenacity passive is HUGE.
Urgot splash page update is meh. The other big change is cost to Machete, which means no more simple machete + 5 pot start, which might hurt the oddball jungle champs (Kayle jumps out at me).
It matches full stack BT at 200 bonus AD, which is roughly an extra 100 post BT, runes, and masteries. I don't see it getting much play outside of the Dcap "I have some X and I want a lot more X" as the bonus isn't all that hot without some direct impact. Makes it an even better late game power curve for AD casters if they want to shirk a defencive item or don't need both armor pens. I still think the 3500 pricetag is pretty prohibitive as a rush item.
Reaver is still waiting for Riot to open their eyes and see that a Forbidden Idol fits perfectly into it's build path/intent.
AG looks promising. I don't think Tenacity loss with be much of an issue, seeing that most champions that build it would prefer merc's anyway.
One thing I would like to see though: Spirit Stone is no longer in SotAG's recipe, the Coat taking it's place. I'm interested to see if we'll have any changes to Madred's and have that sneak into SotEL's and just phase out Spirit Stone entirely.
On June 26 2014 11:58 Slusher wrote: I kinda like it, actually my only disappointment is that all of those idiots who though deathcap was unfair (That there was no ad equivalent) will feel vindicated.
At least this will quiet the masses without giving an incredible benefit. It's only twice as good as the mastery which people think is shit anyway. AD is just too expensive without a high multiplier or people that sit on it for everything(Riven.)
The new Nidalee is secretly far more toxic than the old Nidalee. The reality is, that there probably hasn't been a more snowbally champion in LOL that wasn't a jungler since the end of Season 2 (at a minimum). I gave an early kill to one because of a lvl 2 gank (wtf?) and basically could not CS the rest of lane (if not under tower), but also have gotten mild leads on her which meant she had to constantly CS under tower, and my whole team could basically ignore her the whole game. There is a reason that they kept killing Cougar Form in the past, and its not because its a good thing to balance around.
On June 26 2014 11:21 Kinie wrote: Looks like Riot has succumbed to the pressure of everyone shitting on what they did to ADCs and BT and gave it a free buff (which might make it give even more AD than previously once you reach a certain AD threshold, the math-y people can do it for me), and the changes to SotAG seem interesting as well, but losing it's Tenacity passive is HUGE.
Urgot splash page update is meh. The other big change is cost to Machete, which means no more simple machete + 5 pot start, which might hurt the oddball jungle champs (Kayle jumps out at me).
The certain threshold you are talking about is 300AD. The old one gives you 30 bonus damage and 6% lifesteal, but to get 30 bonus damage now, you need to have 300AD, which is quite a long time. To reach 30 bonus damage back then, you need to kill 15 minions, to reach 300 AD now, you need like 10k, 12k gold of items.
On June 26 2014 11:58 Slusher wrote: I kinda like it, actually my only disappointment is that all of those idiots who though deathcap was unfair (That there was no ad equivalent) will feel vindicated.
Those same people will be whinging even harder for an AD Zhonya's now I bet.
On July 04 2014 15:55 JazzVortical wrote: Wow, actually removing some of Thresh's utility. Still going to be a top pick though.
They really want people to buy Essence Reaver.
They're doing it in the completely wrong way.
The item is still complete shit. Unless they give it more AD than any other item in the game, no one will ever buy it except maybe Jayce and Urgot. Spending gold on pseudo mana regen is completely unnecessary for 95% of the AD champions in this game.
If they want people to buy it, they should make it really cheap, then give it an upgrade option by slapping a BF Sword on it. Something like Pickaxe+Faerie Charm+100 gold = Essence Reaver with ~30 AD+mana passive. Then Essence Reaver+BF Sword + 100 gold = Big Ass Essence Reaver with 80 AD and some CDR. Even then I still think the item sucks cause mana regen is overrated on AD champs, but it wouldn't be as retarded. Currently, by the time you finish Essence Reaver, you realistically don't need mana regen anymore.
On July 04 2014 15:55 JazzVortical wrote: Wow, actually removing some of Thresh's utility. Still going to be a top pick though.
They really want people to buy Essence Reaver.
They're doing it in the completely wrong way.
The item is still complete shit. Unless they give it more AD than any other item in the game, no one will ever buy it except maybe Jayce and Urgot. Spending gold on pseudo mana regen is completely unnecessary for 95% of the AD champions in this game.
If they want people to buy it, they should make it really cheap, then give it an upgrade option by slapping a BF Sword on it. Something like Pickaxe+Faerie Charm+100 gold = Essence Reaver with ~30 AD+mana passive. Then Essence Reaver+BF Sword + 100 gold = Big Ass Essence Reaver with 80 AD and some CDR. Even then I still think the item sucks cause mana regen is overrated on AD champs, but it wouldn't be as retarded. Currently, by the time you finish Essence Reaver, you realistically don't need mana regen anymore.
Nonsense. This is similar to when Athene's came out and people thought it was bad because "you should just manage your mana better." Then people realized more spell = more damage. What they should be doing is shoving a Forbidden Idol into the build path.
On July 04 2014 15:55 JazzVortical wrote: Wow, actually removing some of Thresh's utility. Still going to be a top pick though.
They really want people to buy Essence Reaver.
They're doing it in the completely wrong way.
The item is still complete shit. Unless they give it more AD than any other item in the game, no one will ever buy it except maybe Jayce and Urgot. Spending gold on pseudo mana regen is completely unnecessary for 95% of the AD champions in this game.
If they want people to buy it, they should make it really cheap, then give it an upgrade option by slapping a BF Sword on it. Something like Pickaxe+Faerie Charm+100 gold = Essence Reaver with ~30 AD+mana passive. Then Essence Reaver+BF Sword + 100 gold = Big Ass Essence Reaver with 80 AD and some CDR. Even then I still think the item sucks cause mana regen is overrated on AD champs, but it wouldn't be as retarded. Currently, by the time you finish Essence Reaver, you realistically don't need mana regen anymore.
Nonsense. This is similar to when Athene's came out and people thought it was bad because "you should just manage your mana better." Then people realized more spell = more damage. What they should be doing is shoving a Forbidden Idol into the build path.
except the difference is AP carries use spells for damage. AD carries use auto attacks for damage. Outside of a few edge cases, when was the last time you legit had mana problems on an AD carry? Especially after level 7~8, which is about when you'd finish an Essence Reaver, even if you rush it first item. Maybe on Corki? But with Corki you'd much rather rush a Triforce. By the time you finish Triforce plus have another 3.5k, mana generally isn't an issue anymore. AD bruisers won't buy Essence Reaver since they usually can only afford 1 or 2 damage items, and ER is far outclassed by Bork and Triforce. Most AD assassins won't buy it either since either their mana usage is pretty minimal or nonexistent.
On top of that, a huge part of why Athene's is good is because it gives the perfect amount of CDR and the magic resist on it lets you not die. The only other AP+ 20% CDR options are Morellonomicon and Nashor's, both of which are decidedly more niche. The only other AP+MR option is Abyssal, which just sucks after all its nerfs, unless you're running a double AP comp, which doesn't really happen nowadays.
The only AD champs that would ever want mana regen are AD poke champs: old W max Kha, Jayce, Urgot, blue build Ez. Kha'zix no longer revolves around poke and blue build Ez is strictly inferior to Triforce->Blade builds. That leaves you with 2 champions out of the entire pool who might ant to buy ER and even then, Muramana (assuming the changes don't go through) might be better.
On July 04 2014 15:55 JazzVortical wrote: Wow, actually removing some of Thresh's utility. Still going to be a top pick though.
They really want people to buy Essence Reaver.
They're doing it in the completely wrong way.
The item is still complete shit. Unless they give it more AD than any other item in the game, no one will ever buy it except maybe Jayce and Urgot. Spending gold on pseudo mana regen is completely unnecessary for 95% of the AD champions in this game.
If they want people to buy it, they should make it really cheap, then give it an upgrade option by slapping a BF Sword on it. Something like Pickaxe+Faerie Charm+100 gold = Essence Reaver with ~30 AD+mana passive. Then Essence Reaver+BF Sword + 100 gold = Big Ass Essence Reaver with 80 AD and some CDR. Even then I still think the item sucks cause mana regen is overrated on AD champs, but it wouldn't be as retarded. Currently, by the time you finish Essence Reaver, you realistically don't need mana regen anymore.
Nonsense. This is similar to when Athene's came out and people thought it was bad because "you should just manage your mana better." Then people realized more spell = more damage. What they should be doing is shoving a Forbidden Idol into the build path.
except the difference is AP carries use spells for damage. AD carries use auto attacks for damage. Outside of a few edge cases, when was the last time you legit had mana problems on an AD carry? Especially after level 7~8, which is about when you'd finish an Essence Reaver, even if you rush it first item. Maybe on Corki? But with Corki you'd much rather rush a Triforce. By the time you finish Triforce plus have another 3.5k, mana generally isn't an issue anymore. AD bruisers won't buy Essence Reaver since they usually can only afford 1 or 2 damage items, and ER is far outclassed by Bork and Triforce. Most AD assassins won't buy it either since either their mana usage is pretty minimal or nonexistent.
On top of that, a huge part of why Athene's is good is because it gives the perfect amount of CDR and the magic resist on it lets you not die. The only other AP+ 20% CDR options are Morellonomicon and Nashor's, both of which are decidedly more niche. The only other AP+MR option is Abyssal, which just sucks after all its nerfs, unless you're running a double AP comp, which doesn't really happen nowadays.
The only AD champs that would ever want mana regen are AD poke champs: old W max Kha, Jayce, Urgot, blue build Ez. Kha'zix no longer revolves around poke and blue build Ez is strictly inferior to Triforce->Blade builds. That leaves you with 2 champions out of the entire pool who might ant to buy ER and even then, Muramana (assuming the changes don't go through) might be better.
Except that the group of AD "caster" Carries benefit greatly from popping their spells out. Some get more damage benefits by using their spell, such as Lucian getting his doubleshot passive which triggers Reaver again. Then there's champions like Pantheon who are taken into lane and played as an AD caster, yet have to buy chalice at times for any sort of mana regen because he can't stack tear well and his Q manacost is mega prohibitive. Where the fuck are you getting 3.5k mana from? Corki + Triforce at level 18 is 1109 mana.
Reaver provides CDR and Lifesteal, a rarity on AD items and adding survivability so you can "not die." Athene's defencive prowess is dramatically less after it's recent nerf. The only other AD/mana item is Muramana, which a lot of champions have a shit time of stacking. Hurray for not slow as fuck power curves because of item restrictions! How is double AP niche? Rumble is becoming a very strong pick in soloq and we're seeing more Lulus and Kayles in top lane every day.
Just because champions have an option that sucks doesn't mean they shouldn't have one that's better.
Does riot not understand that no one wants essence reaver because it doesn't actually help you get over your low mana slump? Like if tear gave no mana before it was stacked, no one would buy it either.
On July 04 2014 20:48 miicah wrote: Does riot not understand that no one wants essence reaver because it doesn't actually help you get over your low mana slump? Like if tear gave no mana before it was stacked, no one would buy it either.
Someone said lifesteal would become unique and I was scared, then I noticed it was only BT. I think the 20% is still less than what it was in S2 full stacks which is hilarious.
Oooh, nice. I was waiting til the 7/7 notes weren't WIP anymore due to the Lucian stuff and then things got hectic around here. Will update in a bit. =]
I like the new reaver. Unfortunately most champions who need mana and AD eg. Sion/Jayce can get by without using any mana on waves and only really run into problems after long teamfights. Essence reaver doesn't restore that much mana for those two. I could see it gotten after tear though.
On July 19 2014 10:32 cLutZ wrote: Wow, that Lee Change is pretty massive (for a company said they were uncomfortable changing him like 3 days ago).
To be fair, they garnered a lot of criticism for saying that. Before they said they're going to nerf him, then the community outcry tried to stop it. Now that he's one of the few of the cadre of big bad evil junglers still in the limelight, the sharks are circling and hoping for blood.
Cant wait till they buff Hecarim 1 patch before worlds along with boots of swiftness then act all confused when he runs over everything/is 100% pick/ban.
On July 19 2014 11:07 JazzVortical wrote: Nerfing Lee and Evelynn is fine, but leaving Elise alone at the same time just makes her first pick status again.
Given the amount of changes already on the PBE, this will probably be one of their bigger, slower patches.
On July 19 2014 11:07 JazzVortical wrote: Nerfing Lee and Evelynn is fine, but leaving Elise alone at the same time just makes her first pick status again.
Given the amount of changes already on the PBE, this will probably be one of their bigger, slower patches.
Fair point, it's unlikely they'd put out all of these changes at once, particularly if their next patch is 2-3 weeks away.
Still, if they did nerf Lee and Evelynn at once, Elise is queen of the jungle once again.
On July 04 2014 20:48 miicah wrote: Does riot not understand that no one wants essence reaver because it doesn't actually help you get over your low mana slump? Like if tear gave no mana before it was stacked, no one would buy it either.
Unfortunately it seems not.
They should justmake Essence Reaver like flat mana steal, like Udyrs old turtle stance instead of this scaling up as you get lower bullshit just make it liek 10% flat and call it a day
On July 04 2014 20:48 miicah wrote: Does riot not understand that no one wants essence reaver because it doesn't actually help you get over your low mana slump? Like if tear gave no mana before it was stacked, no one would buy it either.
Unfortunately it seems not.
They should justmake Essence Reaver like flat mana steal, like Udyrs old turtle stance instead of this scaling up as you get lower bullshit just make it liek 10% flat and call it a day
Lux passive change seems pretty inconsequential tbh. Through the laning phase her passive will end up dealing very similar damage to what it does already, and after the laning phase, you'll generally be trying to stay outside of autoattack range anyway.
Won't say no to it though, I always thought it was odd that her passive didn't have a ratio on it.
On July 21 2014 05:22 Cheap0 wrote: Lux passive change seems pretty inconsequential tbh. Through the laning phase her passive will end up dealing very similar damage to what it does already, and after the laning phase, you'll generally be trying to stay outside of autoattack range anyway.
Won't say no to it though, I always thought it was odd that her passive didn't have a ratio on it.
On July 04 2014 20:48 miicah wrote: Does riot not understand that no one wants essence reaver because it doesn't actually help you get over your low mana slump? Like if tear gave no mana before it was stacked, no one would buy it either.
Unfortunately it seems not.
They should justmake Essence Reaver like flat mana steal, like Udyrs old turtle stance instead of this scaling up as you get lower bullshit just make it liek 10% flat and call it a day
Riot despises mana steal.
Not like mana steal from another champion, wasnt really sure what to call it lolol. like +10% mana back on attack or something. Or like 6% might be more balanced now that i think about it
On July 21 2014 09:11 Ethelis wrote: Nerf to support Lux!??!!? wait even then you get enough AP...
Free buff yay
At 10 ap/l I think 180 ap is pretty reasonable for late game even as support
Elise nerfs feel slightly overkill, granted that's a phrase that has been said too many times about elise but still wow. Context mitigates it I guess, I don't understand I'd have to see it now
On July 22 2014 07:21 Slusher wrote: pretty annoyed with the amount of changes considering the 2 week patch cycle, but riot is going to do what it's going to do.
I was out most of the day, has Riot said they were wrapping up this patch?
Less MR on chalice?!? Even MOAR Diana!!! I feel that she's been pretty good since the athene's nerf, specially since people started playing more Fizz. In my experience W max Diana facerolls Fizz stupidly hard.
Exhaust Exhaust now reduces "Movement Speed and Attack Speed by 30%, Magic and Armor resist by 10, and damage dealt by 40% for 2.5 seconds" from "Damage dealt by 50% and attack speed and movement speed reduction by 30%
Dang, I thought Exhaust was always 50% aspd reduction too.
I want to use this as Jayce top vs Fiora, Irelia or other top laners that I can't straight up fight in melee range and kill me fast. I think it'll still be possible, but I don't understand why they're changing exhaust. Is it just that it has too much of a dramatic effect in the game? 10 armpen / physical pen for 10% DR is fine though.
Exhaust used to have a mastery that gave it armor pen/ magic pen so this is kind of like a reversion.
sorta, the old changes removed 'insec'ing from the game unless you count autoing them twice after jumping to the ward to be an insec, I mean hey you did have 100% aspd steroid to do it with :trollface:
On July 23 2014 22:15 Slusher wrote: sorta, the old changes removed 'insec'ing from the game unless you count autoing them twice after jumping to the ward to be an insec, I mean hey you did have 100% aspd steroid to do it with :trollface:
EPT
