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On January 29 2014 09:14 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 08:59 Gahlo wrote:On January 29 2014 08:51 Bumblebee wrote:
I just played a pub. Kassa was left open. Nobody picked him. Wow. Some people don't play the strong champions. Shocking, I know. I always say this but I don't think Kassadin is really that strong. His mobility is obviously problematic, but his burst is mediocre and requires him to 100% commit unless he has Zhonya. He is just absolutely annoying to play against because he chases too well. Nerfing his R CD by one more second and I think he will be OK.
His burst is mediocre? lol....
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On January 29 2014 09:14 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 08:59 Gahlo wrote:On January 29 2014 08:51 Bumblebee wrote:
I just played a pub. Kassa was left open. Nobody picked him. Wow. Some people don't play the strong champions. Shocking, I know. I always say this but I don't think Kassadin is really that strong. His mobility is obviously problematic, but his burst is mediocre and requires him to 100% commit unless he has Zhonya. He is just absolutely annoying to play against because he chases too well. Nerfing his R CD by one more second and I think he will be OK.
You've watched league for the last ~9 months, right?
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On January 29 2014 09:23 Yezzus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 09:14 Sufficiency wrote:On January 29 2014 08:59 Gahlo wrote:On January 29 2014 08:51 Bumblebee wrote:
I just played a pub. Kassa was left open. Nobody picked him. Wow. Some people don't play the strong champions. Shocking, I know. I always say this but I don't think Kassadin is really that strong. His mobility is obviously problematic, but his burst is mediocre and requires him to 100% commit unless he has Zhonya. He is just absolutely annoying to play against because he chases too well. Nerfing his R CD by one more second and I think he will be OK. His burst is mediocre? lol....
His Q + E at rank 5 is 500 + 1.4AP damage against a single target. On a 9 seconds cooldown. His R and W rarely does any damage in teamfights. 1.4AP scaling is respectable, but the 500 base is really low, especially when he needs to invest in mana items. His strength is not his upfront damage, but that once you are low and running away, he can easily hunt you down. You simply cannot run away from Kassadin.
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On January 29 2014 09:14 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 08:59 Gahlo wrote:On January 29 2014 08:51 Bumblebee wrote:
I just played a pub. Kassa was left open. Nobody picked him. Wow. Some people don't play the strong champions. Shocking, I know. I always say this but I don't think Kassadin is really that strong. His mobility is obviously problematic, but his burst is mediocre and requires him to 100% commit unless he has Zhonya. He is just absolutely annoying to play against because he chases too well. Nerfing his R CD by one more second and I think he will be OK.
Hm? This makes no sense.
Kassadin precisely gets to never commit unless he can get a kill. That's why it's tough to do well as him if his team is feeding, but if the team is good and stays alive for a while, he can carry all teamfights from midgame on with his constant high damage output and his ability to jump in and grab a kill or two when the enemy gets low enough.
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He is also impossible to catch /finish off
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United States47024 Posts
From a design standpoint, I think the thing that bothers me most about Kassadin is how the mana cost scales on his ultimate.
The fact that it has a low initial cost and steep cost scaling means that it rewards the use case that requires the least skill (random haphazard jumps to escape/etc), and doesn't reward the use case that requires the most skill and preparation to execute (pre-charging stacks to supplement your burst and having to manage the mana cost of jump after the charged burst).
Intuitively, it should have high initial cost and low build-up cost, so that using it as a get out of jail free card is punishing for your mana, and that you're encouraged to set up successive jumps properly.
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On January 29 2014 09:42 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 09:14 Sufficiency wrote:On January 29 2014 08:59 Gahlo wrote:On January 29 2014 08:51 Bumblebee wrote:
I just played a pub. Kassa was left open. Nobody picked him. Wow. Some people don't play the strong champions. Shocking, I know. I always say this but I don't think Kassadin is really that strong. His mobility is obviously problematic, but his burst is mediocre and requires him to 100% commit unless he has Zhonya. He is just absolutely annoying to play against because he chases too well. Nerfing his R CD by one more second and I think he will be OK. Hm? This makes no sense. Kassadin precisely gets to never commit unless he can get a kill. That's why it's tough to do well as him if his team is feeding, but if the team is good and stays alive for a while, he can carry all teamfights from midgame on with his constant high damage output and his ability to jump in and grab a kill or two when the enemy gets low enough.
Yes of course. Which is why he isn't really that strong.
On January 29 2014 09:42 TheYango wrote:
From a design standpoint, I think the thing that bothers me most about Kassadin is how the mana cost scales on his ultimate.
The fact that it has a low initial cost and steep cost scaling means that it rewards the use case that requires the least skill (random haphazard jumps to escape/etc), and doesn't reward the use case that requires the most skill and preparation to execute (pre-charging stacks to supplement your burst and having to manage the mana cost of jump after the charged burst).
Intuitively, it should have high initial cost and low build-up cost, so that using it as a get out of jail free card is punishing for your mana, and that you're encouraged to set up successive jumps properly.
I think mana cost going up is a little better. Using your system, his R needs to start at relatively high cost then go down, which will either make him useless (initial R utterly destroys his mana pool), or too good (essentially a mana cost buff for his R).
I think his mana cost on R needs to go up exponentially, like 100 -> 200 -> 400 -> 800. I think he shouldn't be allowed to jump more than 4 times in a teamfight. It's just too much chasing potential.
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On January 29 2014 09:41 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 09:23 Yezzus wrote:On January 29 2014 09:14 Sufficiency wrote:On January 29 2014 08:59 Gahlo wrote:On January 29 2014 08:51 Bumblebee wrote:
I just played a pub. Kassa was left open. Nobody picked him. Wow. Some people don't play the strong champions. Shocking, I know. I always say this but I don't think Kassadin is really that strong. His mobility is obviously problematic, but his burst is mediocre and requires him to 100% commit unless he has Zhonya. He is just absolutely annoying to play against because he chases too well. Nerfing his R CD by one more second and I think he will be OK. His burst is mediocre? lol.... His Q + E at rank 5 is 500 + 1.4AP damage against a single target. On a 9 seconds cooldown. His R and W rarely does any damage in teamfights. 1.4AP scaling is respectable, but the 500 base is really low, especially when he needs to invest in mana items. His strength is not his upfront damage, but that once you are low and running away, he can easily hunt you down. You simply cannot run away from Kassadin.
That's not his burst. That's his harrass.
His burst is him ulting in, using QE and activating W on the target he wants to kill. That requires commitment, but he doesn't need to do it - In a teamfight, he can spam his low cooldown E safely because the opponents cannot properly turn on him. That whittles the enemy team down slowly but steadily. How would it make any sense for that to be his burst? It's his sustained harrass.
Kassadin really doesn't have amazing burst even when he commits fully. He's not a burst champion at all - Because of him practically having no ultimate, he's s sustained damage champion at his core. Still, it's completely wrong that he never really uses W in teamfights. That's actually his primary source of damage when going for a single target kill.
On January 29 2014 09:49 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 09:42 Shikyo wrote:On January 29 2014 09:14 Sufficiency wrote:On January 29 2014 08:59 Gahlo wrote:On January 29 2014 08:51 Bumblebee wrote:
I just played a pub. Kassa was left open. Nobody picked him. Wow. Some people don't play the strong champions. Shocking, I know. I always say this but I don't think Kassadin is really that strong. His mobility is obviously problematic, but his burst is mediocre and requires him to 100% commit unless he has Zhonya. He is just absolutely annoying to play against because he chases too well. Nerfing his R CD by one more second and I think he will be OK. Hm? This makes no sense. Kassadin precisely gets to never commit unless he can get a kill. That's why it's tough to do well as him if his team is feeding, but if the team is good and stays alive for a while, he can carry all teamfights from midgame on with his constant high damage output and his ability to jump in and grab a kill or two when the enemy gets low enough. Yes of course. Which is why he isn't really that strong.
Well, a super fed Kassadin can still carry a terrible team, I'm just talking about a Kassadin that's even. No champion can really carry a terrible team while being even so I don't see how that's a negative. If the Kassadin's team isn't super far behind around midgame, every teamfight is a freewin.
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Alright, I just got flamed for being a "smurf" by a Plat 2 player who were duoing with his friend (he was on my team). Spent 20 minutes takling to him post-gamg trying to prove I wasn't a smurf, but he didn't believe me... I'm proud! ^_^;
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On January 29 2014 10:03 Bumblebee wrote:
Alright, I just got flamed for being a "smurf" by a Plat 2 player who were duoing with his friend (he was on my team). Spent 20 minutes takling to him post-gamg trying to prove I wasn't a smurf, but he didn't believe me... I'm proud! ^_^;
Some people don't know how to just shut up and be carried these days.
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On January 29 2014 10:04 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 10:03 Bumblebee wrote:
Alright, I just got flamed for being a "smurf" by a Plat 2 player who were duoing with his friend (he was on my team). Spent 20 minutes takling to him post-gamg trying to prove I wasn't a smurf, but he didn't believe me... I'm proud! ^_^; Some people don't know how to just shut up and be carried these days.
Well, I'm Silver 2 (+264 LoLking score though -> From Bronze 3 to Silver 2 since reset) and currently on something like a 25-6 winstreak...
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On January 29 2014 09:41 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 09:23 Yezzus wrote:On January 29 2014 09:14 Sufficiency wrote:On January 29 2014 08:59 Gahlo wrote:On January 29 2014 08:51 Bumblebee wrote:
I just played a pub. Kassa was left open. Nobody picked him. Wow. Some people don't play the strong champions. Shocking, I know. I always say this but I don't think Kassadin is really that strong. His mobility is obviously problematic, but his burst is mediocre and requires him to 100% commit unless he has Zhonya. He is just absolutely annoying to play against because he chases too well. Nerfing his R CD by one more second and I think he will be OK. His burst is mediocre? lol.... His Q + E at rank 5 is 500 + 1.4AP damage against a single target. On a 9 seconds cooldown. His R and W rarely does any damage in teamfights. 1.4AP scaling is respectable, but the 500 base is really low, especially when he needs to invest in mana items. His strength is not his upfront damage, but that once you are low and running away, he can easily hunt you down. You simply cannot run away from Kassadin.
You ult onto their ADC, Q + E + W and they die instantly. Then a few seconds later you're ready to do the same thing again.
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thats why you build all mana, stack riftwalk to 10 then rift bomb for dayzzzzzzzzz
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What bugs me the most about Kassadin is how much damage his Q does just as poke. I have this idea of him being this inept little baby in lane that ramps up to become super scary later in the game, and it always annoys me how much damage he can put on a champion pre-6.
I think that's exactly what they're changing though, so I'm pretty happy about that.
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On January 29 2014 09:49 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 09:42 Shikyo wrote:On January 29 2014 09:14 Sufficiency wrote:On January 29 2014 08:59 Gahlo wrote:On January 29 2014 08:51 Bumblebee wrote:
I just played a pub. Kassa was left open. Nobody picked him. Wow. Some people don't play the strong champions. Shocking, I know. I always say this but I don't think Kassadin is really that strong. His mobility is obviously problematic, but his burst is mediocre and requires him to 100% commit unless he has Zhonya. He is just absolutely annoying to play against because he chases too well. Nerfing his R CD by one more second and I think he will be OK. Hm? This makes no sense. Kassadin precisely gets to never commit unless he can get a kill. That's why it's tough to do well as him if his team is feeding, but if the team is good and stays alive for a while, he can carry all teamfights from midgame on with his constant high damage output and his ability to jump in and grab a kill or two when the enemy gets low enough. Yes of course. Which is why he isn't really that strong. Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 09:42 TheYango wrote:
From a design standpoint, I think the thing that bothers me most about Kassadin is how the mana cost scales on his ultimate.
The fact that it has a low initial cost and steep cost scaling means that it rewards the use case that requires the least skill (random haphazard jumps to escape/etc), and doesn't reward the use case that requires the most skill and preparation to execute (pre-charging stacks to supplement your burst and having to manage the mana cost of jump after the charged burst).
Intuitively, it should have high initial cost and low build-up cost, so that using it as a get out of jail free card is punishing for your mana, and that you're encouraged to set up successive jumps properly. I think mana cost going up is a little better. Using your system, his R needs to start at relatively high cost then go down, which will either make him useless (initial R utterly destroys his mana pool), or too good (essentially a mana cost buff for his R). I think his mana cost on R needs to go up exponentially, like 100 -> 200 -> 400 -> 800. I think he shouldn't be allowed to jump more than 4 times in a teamfight. It's just too much chasing potential.
I actually like Yango's idea from this standpoint: It means he would actually have meaningful difficulty laning again. I like the idea of a Melle AP Lategame Carry, to pair with Karthus as the AOE lategame AP, and Cassio as the more single-target one.
The problem is once he hits 6 he can go aggro all the time and be safe without wasting all his mana.
Of course, that is the opposite of what Riot wants to do with champs these days...so... probably more realistic to do it your way to make his lategame less powerful.
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On January 29 2014 10:04 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 10:03 Bumblebee wrote:
Alright, I just got flamed for being a "smurf" by a Plat 2 player who were duoing with his friend (he was on my team). Spent 20 minutes takling to him post-gamg trying to prove I wasn't a smurf, but he didn't believe me... I'm proud! ^_^; Some people don't know how to just shut up and be carried these days.
LO
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On January 29 2014 10:09 GolemMadness wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2014 09:41 Sufficiency wrote:On January 29 2014 09:23 Yezzus wrote:On January 29 2014 09:14 Sufficiency wrote:On January 29 2014 08:59 Gahlo wrote:On January 29 2014 08:51 Bumblebee wrote:
I just played a pub. Kassa was left open. Nobody picked him. Wow. Some people don't play the strong champions. Shocking, I know. I always say this but I don't think Kassadin is really that strong. His mobility is obviously problematic, but his burst is mediocre and requires him to 100% commit unless he has Zhonya. He is just absolutely annoying to play against because he chases too well. Nerfing his R CD by one more second and I think he will be OK. His burst is mediocre? lol.... His Q + E at rank 5 is 500 + 1.4AP damage against a single target. On a 9 seconds cooldown. His R and W rarely does any damage in teamfights. 1.4AP scaling is respectable, but the 500 base is really low, especially when he needs to invest in mana items. His strength is not his upfront damage, but that once you are low and running away, he can easily hunt you down. You simply cannot run away from Kassadin. You ult onto their ADC, Q + E + W and they die instantly. Then a few seconds later you're ready to do the same thing again.
Well, the problem is that if their team is there and peeling for the ADC, it's really difficult to actually jump onto the ADC right away unless you come from behind or something(but then you cannot poke and harrass as safely), and Kassadin still needs to actually auto with the W to make the ADC explode.
It's easy enough to accomplish this after the situation presents itself, of course. To be honest, if they just nerfed E but made it not require charges / as many charges, he would actually be able to do his 1v1 assassin role much better but would be worse in teamfights, which would make far more sense for his design
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On January 29 2014 10:03 Bumblebee wrote:
Alright, I just got flamed for being a "smurf" by a Plat 2 player who were duoing with his friend (he was on my team). Spent 20 minutes takling to him post-gamg trying to prove I wasn't a smurf, but he didn't believe me... I'm proud! ^_^;
brags go in this thread --> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305322
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You know you're really wrong when Shikyo explains you something and everybody agrees with him.
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On January 29 2014 10:34 mr_tolkien wrote:
You know you're really wrong when Shikyo explains you something and everybody agrees with him.
Tolkien dishing the burn there and back again.
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EPT
