EPT[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 73
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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JonGalt
Pootie too good!4331 Posts
On October 05 2013 05:32 Gahlo wrote: Considering I wrote this and this, completely ignoring the posting I do in other threads(the Riven one, for example) how about you go back in your hole or know what you're talking about, yeah? I am quite ashamed you don't include the fish puns. Now that's some quality posting and contributions. I mean, it pretty much guaranteed the off topic thread existing. Edit: Quoting is hard  | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
riot pls | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
On October 07 2013 01:05 Requizen wrote: Manaless is the worst resource by a large margain. From a design standpoint, that is. I agree with that, because they all have gimped kits in order to compensate for spells that are only limited by a cooldown. Hence why you never see truly cost-less champs in comp play outside of Renek and the occasional Riven, who both have strong options in play. I have a feeling Renek might see a nerf, esp because his combo E->W->AA->Q-> E out is damaging in lane and somewhat hard to punish. Zac is another good example, until they messed with his kit enough, he had so much utility, cc, and ganking power for essentially 0 hp cost given 1-2 items and an easily accessible blob that heals for more than the cost of the spell. He's still strong as hell i'm fairly sure despite it being harder to self heal. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On October 07 2013 01:51 Infundibulum wrote: I agree with that, because they all have gimped kits in order to compensate for spells that are only limited by a cooldown. Hence why you never see truly cost-less champs in comp play outside of Renek and the occasional Riven, who both have strong options in play. I have a feeling Renek might see a nerf, esp because his combo E->W->AA->Q-> E out is damaging in lane and somewhat hard to punish. Zac is another good example, until they messed with his kit enough, he had so much utility, cc, and ganking power for essentially 0 hp cost given 1-2 items and an easily accessible blob that heals for more than the cost of the spell. He's still strong as hell i'm fairly sure despite it being harder to self heal. Renekton is not truly resourceless. Riven is. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 07 2013 02:00 Sufficiency wrote: Renekton is not truly resourceless. Riven is. Well, Fury sort of doesn't count because it's never a limiting resource, it's a boosting one. Even if you're bad at managing it, you can still use abilities and what not. | ||
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Infundibulum
United States2552 Posts
edit: yeah what Req said but with more sentences | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On October 07 2013 02:52 Shikyo wrote: Rumble, Renekton, Rengar, what have you are all resourceless. Just because they get a BONUS on top of that doesn't mean they use resources... limiting ones that is. That's a bit of a different resource, like Corki R stacks Rumble actually has a downside to spamming skills. The others I agree are dumb. Renekton might auto the wave a bit more to push it leading to easier ganks. Ganking Renekton is tough though. You have not not let him double dash on you. Rengar might use his abilities on creeps a bit more so he can build up stacks. This makes him vulnerable to trades. But, just like Renekton, he doesn't have to use his abilities on creeps. Unfortunately, Riot wants the game to be easy. They're pushing towards making mana champions have negligible mana costs instead of punishing resourceless champions. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On October 07 2013 02:52 Shikyo wrote: Rumble, Renekton, Rengar, what have you are all resourceless. Just because they get a BONUS on top of that doesn't mean they use resources... limiting ones that is. That's a bit of a different resource, like Corki R stacks The only one of those with a real downside imo is rumble, cause of his self silence you have to manage your heat a bit. others i dont think really have any kind of drawback. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On October 07 2013 02:52 Shikyo wrote: Rumble, Renekton, Rengar, what have you are all resourceless. Just because they get a BONUS on top of that doesn't mean they use resources... limiting ones that is. That's a bit of a different resource, like Corki R stacks its like arguing that its ok to build mass mana regen on an AD carry. then you can spam spells all day. its not optimal but you can spam so its imba. not using fury correctly on renekton is equivalent. you can spam your spells all day but you wont get as many kills, wont deal as much damage etc. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 07 2013 03:44 turdburgler wrote: its like arguing that its ok to build mass mana regen on an AD carry. then you can spam spells all day. its not optimal but you can spam so its imba. not using fury correctly on renekton is equivalent. you can spam your spells all day but you wont get as many kills, wont deal as much damage etc. Did you really just compare Fury to spending gold and slots on items? | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On October 07 2013 03:50 Requizen wrote: Did you really just compare Fury to spending gold and slots on items? i dont see how using abilities correctly to deal more damage is any different to buying items correctly to deal more damage. | ||
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Anakko
France1934 Posts
Turns out he's playing league rofl | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On October 07 2013 03:50 turdburgler wrote: i dont see how using abilities correctly to deal more damage is any different to buying items correctly to deal more damage. Opportunity cost of buying mana/mana regen is vastly different than the opportunity cost of incorrectly using fury. On October 07 2013 03:50 Anakko wrote: So I just realised that these "snipealot" streams are actually twitch restreams of old BW pros streaming on afreeca. So I hop on to Mind's stream for some old school BW action.... Turns out he's playing league rofl LoL the one true successor to BW. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 07 2013 03:50 turdburgler wrote: i dont see how using abilities correctly to deal more damage is any different to buying items correctly to deal more damage. The thing about resourceless or energy champions is that they only need to consider how to manage their resource in the short-term. Sure you have to worry about how to manage your Fury in a particular scenario, but there's absolutely zero foresight required to worry about your resource being limited 2-3 minutes from now. This is an entire dimension that is not being tapped into, whereas mana properly implemented as a resource system both has short-term AND long-term considerations for mana management. Granted this point is moot because constant mana cost buffs and overly cheap +mana items (Tear being the main offender) have made mana a trivial resource to manage in the short-term because there is absolutely no champion in the game where they have to worry that their mana does not support their spell usage in an extended trade. Riot basically has never seen mana as a short-term gated resource as being legitimate because having a champ whose mana usage is that restrictive is not fun in their eyes. | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
i think they are a symptom of a problem not a cause. it seems many people here want a game more like dota where using a spell is a commitment, doing absolutely anything should have a trade off. but the game riot seems to want to make is not that at all. the game riot seem to be making is one where you take tiny edges to gain an advantage, the game TLers seem to want to play is a game where you make trade offs to try and get a very specific victory type. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On October 07 2013 04:04 turdburgler wrote: im not arguing that resourcless is good for the game, or mana is fine at the moment. im just pointing out that everyone is getting their panties in twist because once again a resourceless champ (this time renekton, previously rumble and riven) is fotm. and instead of having a wider discussion about if the champion is fun or whatever everyone gets stuck in a mental loop around resourceless spells. i think they are a symptom of a problem not a cause. If you nerf the numbers too hard, you end up with Garen and Katarina. | ||
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