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On October 28 2013 23:53 justiceknight wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/1pdwse/we_misaya_shares_s4_changes_on_tencent_lol_forum/http://lol.gamebbs.qq.com/thread-444575-1-1.htmlMinion spawn time changed to 1:00 Monster spawn time changed to 1:30 Outter tower (possibly all towers) gold distribution changed to killer 250 allies 75 each. New jungle item gives significantly increased gold income for jungler. Baron buff remade to increase tower killing damage by a large % and grant a out-of-combat MS boost(like ms5 boots). the old regen and ap/ad buff removed First blood within first 4 minutes reduced reward to 240 gold. Mid laner will gain abit from masteries change. also mid laner need to roam alot more. Bot lane lane winner support will be a very big carry after lane phase.
Spawn times are whatever. It gives less prep time, but at the same time a lot of that was spent waiting anyway.
Now there's an actual incentive to last hit the tower instead of shoving the wave and backing? Mixed feelings.
Jungle changes need to be seen before judged.
I dislike the Baron change. It's still a global objective and gold, but that's much less of an incentive to fight over, I can see games where the teams opt to not even take it if they're not sieging. I could be wrong though.
Make early first bloods less snowbally is nice.
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It'll make more people rage in soloQ, or alternatively punish people more, when some lameass alt-tabs after champ select and comes back around 2 minutes "sorry I forgot". You already get kinda screwed if you're facing a strong invade team and somebody stands in fountain for like 30s because they'll be the first in your jungle anyway. 
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I think the Baron changes were in response to Baron having a very high Bayesian influence on the likelihood of winning the game.
Unfortunately, this iteration of Baron is going to be even more "snowball" because if it is still as difficult to take down, with such mediocre reward, then you're going to take if if you are ahead and with a solid ability to siege. Plus it gives MS boost as if 1-3-1 or 1-4 push comps weren't boring enough.
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Am I misreading the info or are they changing tower gold to be 75g?
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assuming no other relevant changes, the five second spawn difference between minions and monsters will make it difficult/impossible for solo laners to help take buffs without missing 1-2 in the first wave. this has the added effect of forcing junglers to start the buff nearest the duo lane, which additionally will impact how level 1 plays out
tower gold change seems less about incentivizing being there to last hit than it is about shifting global snowball from early towers into a stronger advantage in a single lane - especially so if the change is only to outer towers
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On October 29 2013 00:05 Numy wrote:
Am I misreading the info or are they changing tower gold to be 75g?
Yea I think it's 75g for each person on team and the tower kill gets 75+250. Not too clear on that.
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On October 29 2013 00:11 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 00:05 Numy wrote:
Am I misreading the info or are they changing tower gold to be 75g? Yea I think it's 75g for each person on team and the tower kill gets 75+250. Not too clear on that.
its like getting kills 300 for killer and 150/X players asst.
but for towers is different
250 for killer
75 for other players
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United States15536 Posts
My question is will Misaya get any heat from Riot for publishing changes early? >_<
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On October 28 2013 23:58 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 23:53 justiceknight wrote:
Outter tower (possibly all towers) gold distribution changed to killer 250 allies 75 each.
Show nested quote +On October 27 2013 08:58 TheYango wrote:On October 27 2013 08:34 iCanada wrote:
I havn't played DotA for probably 6 years now, I feel like I should just go play it, it seems to cater to the things I enjoy/want out of LoL anyway. It's funny because people are up in arms about DotA 6.79 being too much like LoL, and while it's true that 6.79 made DotA more LoL-like, it's true in the best way possible. Icefrog clearly is paying attention to LoL and trying to take elements of the game that have made it so successful. Meanwhile, despite some of these systemic issues in LoL being things DotA dealt with 3-4 years ago (vision issues, support itemization), Riot is intent on copying bad ideas from other shit MOBA games that nobody likes or cares about (vision item slot from Smite, last-hit "assist" gold from Strife) rather than trying to use how DotA dealt with the issue as a starting point. huehuehue
I don't know how dota works so I don't get the joke. Splain plx.
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On October 29 2013 00:28 Ketara wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 23:58 xes wrote:On October 28 2013 23:53 justiceknight wrote:
Outter tower (possibly all towers) gold distribution changed to killer 250 allies 75 each.
On October 27 2013 08:58 TheYango wrote:On October 27 2013 08:34 iCanada wrote:
I havn't played DotA for probably 6 years now, I feel like I should just go play it, it seems to cater to the things I enjoy/want out of LoL anyway. It's funny because people are up in arms about DotA 6.79 being too much like LoL, and while it's true that 6.79 made DotA more LoL-like, it's true in the best way possible. Icefrog clearly is paying attention to LoL and trying to take elements of the game that have made it so successful. Meanwhile, despite some of these systemic issues in LoL being things DotA dealt with 3-4 years ago (vision issues, support itemization), Riot is intent on copying bad ideas from other shit MOBA games that nobody likes or cares about (vision item slot from Smite, last-hit "assist" gold from Strife) rather than trying to use how DotA dealt with the issue as a starting point. huehuehue I don't know how dota works so I don't get the joke. Splain plx.
I don't know how dota works but i think that's how tower gold works in dota
Also, tower kills might work like assists in that even if a minion lasthits it you get credit as long as you damaged it within the last X seconds
Also, people are saying that there will be a Dominion-style 30 second lockdown at the start of the game to let toasters get into the game fairly, but afterwards everyone gets a homeguard effect so you can still run to invade in the normal amount of time
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baron change also seems to make it disproportionately attractive to the winning team; after all, a tower damage buff isn't useful without the additional combat stats that would let a losing team try to push. the movespeed buff is appealing to defenders, especially when an inhibitor is down, but overall the previous iteration of baron buff is better for defense
i'm getting the (very early and mostly unsubstantiated) impression that the general direction of the changes is to make the game less globally snowbally in the early game but make it easier for the winning team to close out longer games
dota towers give a killing blow bonus on top of global gold. dota's massive recent patch is perceived as making the game more like league, which is funny considering the league tower gold change just announced
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On October 29 2013 00:31 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 00:28 Ketara wrote:On October 28 2013 23:58 xes wrote:On October 28 2013 23:53 justiceknight wrote:
Outter tower (possibly all towers) gold distribution changed to killer 250 allies 75 each.
On October 27 2013 08:58 TheYango wrote:On October 27 2013 08:34 iCanada wrote:
I havn't played DotA for probably 6 years now, I feel like I should just go play it, it seems to cater to the things I enjoy/want out of LoL anyway. It's funny because people are up in arms about DotA 6.79 being too much like LoL, and while it's true that 6.79 made DotA more LoL-like, it's true in the best way possible. Icefrog clearly is paying attention to LoL and trying to take elements of the game that have made it so successful. Meanwhile, despite some of these systemic issues in LoL being things DotA dealt with 3-4 years ago (vision issues, support itemization), Riot is intent on copying bad ideas from other shit MOBA games that nobody likes or cares about (vision item slot from Smite, last-hit "assist" gold from Strife) rather than trying to use how DotA dealt with the issue as a starting point. huehuehue I don't know how dota works so I don't get the joke. Splain plx. I don't know how dota works but i think that's how tower gold works in dota Also, tower kills might work like assists in that even if a minion lasthits it you get credit as long as you damaged it within the last X seconds Also, people are saying that there will be a Dominion-style 30 second lockdown at the start of the game to let toasters get into the game fairly, but afterwards everyone gets a homeguard effect so you can still run to invade in the normal amount of time
This change is great and absurd at the same time.
It is an incredible achievement for soloq for when you have that guy loading at 60% for ages and you decide to go to the bathroom and suddenly their toaster turns into a delorean. It is completely irrelevant for competitive tournament play and reduces space complexity of interactions for no real gain.
If Riot abandoned this farcical identification of soloq as a mirror paradigm of competitive arranged play, I think they could add more nuanced changes.
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I feel like you guys might be getting the wrong impression of the baron change.
What it looks like to me is something that's designed to make it so the team without the baron buff doesn't try to avoid the team with the baron buff.
The current AP/AD/regen buff gives a ton of golds worth of direct combat stats, which makes it ideal for the defending team to only fight at towers or even give up towers altogether. Unless they're ahead or get a really good pick it's unlikely for the team with the baron buff to lose a straight 5v5 teamfight (especially because they were likely already ahead when they took baron)
The concept of gameplay where taking baron means the defending team tries to stall and prevent any fights from happening for 3-4 minutes isn't fun for a spectator.
With the change to increased tower damage, this actually makes it more desirable for the defending team to force a fight under their tower, because the baron buff didn't give any combat stats. The more they avoid the team with the buff the more easy towers they will take, but if they force a 5v5 under a tower, they're going to be more likely to win now than they were before.
Does seem like a buff to split push strats though, I agree with that. Also very little incentive for a team that's behind to try for a desperation baron (although those rarely work anyway)
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On October 29 2013 00:37 Ketara wrote:
I feel like you guys might be getting the wrong impression of the baron change.
What it looks like to me is something that's designed to make it so the team without the baron buff doesn't try to avoid the team with the baron buff.
The current AP/AD/regen buff gives a ton of golds worth of direct combat stats, which makes it ideal for the defending team to only fight at towers or even give up towers altogether. Unless they're ahead or get a really good pick it's unlikely for the team with the baron buff to lose a straight 5v5 teamfight (especially because they were likely already ahead when they took baron)
The concept of gameplay where taking baron means the defending team tries to stall and prevent any fights from happening for 3-4 minutes isn't fun for a spectator.
With the change to increased tower damage, this actually makes it more desirable for the defending team to force a fight under their tower, because the baron buff didn't give any combat stats. The more they avoid the team with the buff the more easy towers they will take, but if they force a 5v5 under a tower, they're going to be more likely to win now than they were before.
Does seem like a buff to split push strats though, I agree with that.
Which is why this will look like it snowballs more, something like team to get baron in competitive play wins 100% of the time.
Because if you're still at a point where you need 5v5 teamfights to secure a leg up, Baron becomes an incredible risk for little reward. You're only going to take it when you're already in a position to just death push the other team in.
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It means teams who took an easy Baron have a stronger snowball, but teams who really have to fight it out and barely scrape away with it don't have as much of a gamechanging advantage. Idk about it yet, but frankly I'm still withholding my speculation on that one.
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At the same time it will increase chances for the losing team to make a comeback though. They'll have a better chance of winning the 5v5 under their tower than they did previously.
So instead of baron meaning the winning team suffocates the losing team to death over the next 5-6 minutes, it will mean taking baron signals another big fight in the next 2-3 minutes, where either the winning team will end the game right there or the losing team will make a comeback.
So the winning team will win faster, but the losing team will have a higher chance of a comeback. Both of these things are good spectator experience.
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On October 29 2013 00:31 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 00:28 Ketara wrote:On October 28 2013 23:58 xes wrote:On October 28 2013 23:53 justiceknight wrote:
Outter tower (possibly all towers) gold distribution changed to killer 250 allies 75 each.
On October 27 2013 08:58 TheYango wrote:On October 27 2013 08:34 iCanada wrote:
I havn't played DotA for probably 6 years now, I feel like I should just go play it, it seems to cater to the things I enjoy/want out of LoL anyway. It's funny because people are up in arms about DotA 6.79 being too much like LoL, and while it's true that 6.79 made DotA more LoL-like, it's true in the best way possible. Icefrog clearly is paying attention to LoL and trying to take elements of the game that have made it so successful. Meanwhile, despite some of these systemic issues in LoL being things DotA dealt with 3-4 years ago (vision issues, support itemization), Riot is intent on copying bad ideas from other shit MOBA games that nobody likes or cares about (vision item slot from Smite, last-hit "assist" gold from Strife) rather than trying to use how DotA dealt with the issue as a starting point. huehuehue I don't know how dota works so I don't get the joke. Splain plx. I don't know how dota works but i think that's how tower gold works in dota
They changed it in dota either last patch or patch before(6.78) can't remember. Now teammates get the same gold regardless of if someone gets last hit but if the person does last hit then he gets extra gold.
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also im worried about the support changes if beefed up supports with items make that much of a difference just because the game will probably become so bot lane centric, because instead of snowballing the highest gold-scaling role in the game, you also have the side benefit of snowballing a cc-support tank. Imagine a leona with actual tank items or something just being able to sit in your back line for entire team fights. While before, supports could snowball the game through vision, at least vision took finesse to play and could be outplayed by better teams. Actual combat stats make outplaying a fed bot lane less likely.
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On October 29 2013 00:42 Ketara wrote:
At the same time it will increase chances for the losing team to make a comeback though. They'll have a better chance of winning the 5v5 under their tower than they did previously.
So instead of baron meaning the winning team suffocates the losing team to death over the next 5-6 minutes, it will mean taking baron signals another big fight in the next 2-3 minutes, where either the winning team will end the game right there or the losing team will make a comeback.
So the winning team will win faster, but the losing team will have a higher chance of a comeback. Both of these things are good spectator experience.
That's not necessarily true. Without the direct combat stats from Baron there's no incentive to prematurely 5v5 inhibitor towers. If you're in a position where you risk being engaged on, you can still use your huge map presence to just take more jungle camps and deny the opponent efficient farm allocation. Plus the jungle now comes with more gold.
My general opinion is that Baron has almost no impact on the game. It just looks like it has an impact, but the real snowball culprits are itemization, map layout, and vision. It seems like the second is getting a big change so fingers crossed (the third I'm not really optimistic about at reducing the tremendous advantage a team gets from taking the first towers).
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On October 29 2013 00:49 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 00:42 Ketara wrote:
At the same time it will increase chances for the losing team to make a comeback though. They'll have a better chance of winning the 5v5 under their tower than they did previously.
So instead of baron meaning the winning team suffocates the losing team to death over the next 5-6 minutes, it will mean taking baron signals another big fight in the next 2-3 minutes, where either the winning team will end the game right there or the losing team will make a comeback.
So the winning team will win faster, but the losing team will have a higher chance of a comeback. Both of these things are good spectator experience. My general opinion is that Baron has almost no impact on the game.
really?
so nobody has lot a game by trying to do baron
or nobody has sat at baron for 30 minutes cleraing vision around it so other team sticks around
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EPT
