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[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 352

Forum Index > LoL General
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Inschato
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada1349 Posts
October 26 2013 05:12 GMT
#7021
It does have long range seeking though. But I think Urgot is deliberately underpowered while they consider how to tweak him properly. Like, if they just overbuff him he's extremely unfun to play against. The Poppy Zone.
3.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
October 26 2013 05:16 GMT
#7022
Oh yeah, when you get a lock on with your 15 second cooldown skill it ups two of his shots from 1000 to 1200 range, hooooooray!

It is more the mana cost that I wanted to illustrate. Even if he has a lock on and is spamming Q's in order to cause as much damage as any of the other ADC's he has to spend on average 50% more mana.

If Riot wants his Q to have a high mana cost to gate it because it's point and click during a lock on, I get that. Then reduce the mana cost of his E since that has counterplay (dodge it), and his ult while you're at it because that's not 100 mana and 100 mana ults is the new thing.

In short, buff Urgot.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
Frudgey
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada3367 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-26 05:35:41
October 26 2013 05:24 GMT
#7023
I too would like to see Urgot buffed. But part of the appeal for me is that NOBODY plays him, so when I play him, people are like "What is that idiot crab doing?"

If they buffed Urgot that would draw attention to him and then more people would play him. I'm not saying that I'm against Urgot buffs, but for me part of the novelty of Urgot is that he's so rare to see in play.

I don't know if he's actually that weak though. He does have a nice passive and I've certainly killed people with his ult before as they don't realize the massive armor and magic resists he gains from his ultimate. That being said, his auto attack range is atrocious. (It's only 425 range!)

Of course, if he wasn't weak, I'm sure a lot more people would be playing him.
It is better to die for The Emperor than live for yourself.
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
October 26 2013 05:42 GMT
#7024
To be fair urgot's Q cooldown is like a third of the next lowest cooldown on that list

Besides, I thought the sentiment was that mana costs don't matter on anyone anymore huehue
ketchup
Profile Joined August 2010
14521 Posts
October 26 2013 05:45 GMT
#7025
On October 26 2013 13:49 smOOthMayDie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2013 13:27 ketchup wrote:
On October 26 2013 13:21 smOOthMayDie wrote:
On October 26 2013 12:53 Gahlo wrote:
On October 26 2013 12:49 smOOthMayDie wrote:
Nice to see Chaox returning to competitive scene as a player!

What?


Return to competitive League of Legends
On October 6th, 2013, Chaox announced that he is offically looking for a competitive team

http://lol.gamepedia.com/Chaox


Uhh.. I think gahlo was referring to the fact that he just played in NESL with team NiD(Napkins in Disguise).


Seemed like he was 'What?'ing my statement instead.


Haha, for some reason, I definitely saw the wrong names, and got you two confused. My statement makes absolutely no sense, so my apologies.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-26 05:57:12
October 26 2013 05:54 GMT
#7026
On October 26 2013 14:24 Frudgey wrote:
I too would like to see Urgot buffed. But part of the appeal for me is that NOBODY plays him, so when I play him, people are like "What is that idiot crab doing?"

If they buffed Urgot that would draw attention to him and then more people would play him. I'm not saying that I'm against Urgot buffs, but for me part of the novelty of Urgot is that he's so rare to see in play.

I don't know if he's actually that weak though. He does have a nice passive and I've certainly killed people with his ult before as they don't realize the massive armor and magic resists he gains from his ultimate. That being said, his auto attack range is atrocious. (It's only 425 range!)

Of course, if he wasn't weak, I'm sure a lot more people would be playing him.

The reason nobody plays urgot is because he got nerfed into the fucking ground.

I don't think there's any fundamental problems with his kit though. Maybe lower E mana cost atm.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
schmutttt
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia3856 Posts
October 26 2013 06:04 GMT
#7027
Whilst their winrates are significantly better I think Morde and Garen are in the same boat. Buff them and they become impossible to lane vs, don't touch them and they will continue to suck in competitive play.
chalice
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1945 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-26 06:21:35
October 26 2013 06:21 GMT
#7028
they should buff urgot's auto range to like 525 or something to make up for how much range they took off of his spells.
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
October 26 2013 06:31 GMT
#7029
Somewhat offtopic

Anyone know if hotshotgg plays board games? Because on boardgamearena.com there's this guy named HotshotGG and it's not exactly a common username so it's either someone purposely taking his name or it's actually him.

He beat me at Race for the Galaxy.
SnK-Arcbound
Profile Joined March 2005
United States4423 Posts
October 26 2013 06:46 GMT
#7030
I saw someone named bigfatjiji or bigfatip on maplestory, don't know if it was the same guy.
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
October 26 2013 06:50 GMT
#7031
On October 26 2013 15:31 thenexusp wrote:
Somewhat offtopic

Anyone know if hotshotgg plays board games? Because on boardgamearena.com there's this guy named HotshotGG and it's not exactly a common username so it's either someone purposely taking his name or it's actually him.

He beat me at Race for the Galaxy.

l2develop
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
October 26 2013 07:34 GMT
#7032
I think Urgot lost a lot of his strength after M5 did that thing with the Urgot and the Nocturne. Urgot has that pro level niche where he's able to make this level 6 pick.

V1.0.0.144:

Acid Hunter
Damage adjusted to 10/40/70/100/130 (+0.85 per total attack damage) from 50/80/110/140/170 (+1.2 per bonus Attack Damage).
V1.0.0.143:

Acid Hunter
Damage adjusted to 50/80/110/140/170 (+1.2 per bonus attack damage) from 10/40/70/100/130 (+0.85 per total attack damage).
Lock-on missile cast range reduced to 1200 from 1500.
Rank 1 range is no longer higher than other ranks.
Noxian Corrosive Charge
Cooldown increased to 15/14/13/12/11 seconds from 11 at all ranks.
Cast range reduced to 900 from 950.
Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser
Cast range reduced to 550/700/850 from 700/775/850.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Urgot/Background

Just another result of overreactions from Riot's balance team.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-26 08:09:07
October 26 2013 07:59 GMT
#7033
So Voyboy's stream:
He had AP masteries on zed and didn't have his preferred runepage either. He was talking about how hard of a lane he will have constantly for like a full minute, especially because of the masteries.

I tune out while I do some accounting hw. Come back: 6-1-2. LOL dis Voy too good.

edit: He just got a penta LOL da fuck.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
October 26 2013 08:33 GMT
#7034
On October 26 2013 16:59 BlackPaladin wrote:
So Voyboy's stream:
He had AP masteries on zed and didn't have his preferred runepage either. He was talking about how hard of a lane he will have constantly for like a full minute, especially because of the masteries.

I tune out while I do some accounting hw. Come back: 6-1-2. LOL dis Voy too good.

edit: He just got a penta LOL da fuck.


I'd postulate this has more to do with Zed than Voyboy...

....

....

hue.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 26 2013 08:40 GMT
#7035
On October 26 2013 16:34 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think Urgot lost a lot of his strength after M5 did that thing with the Urgot and the Nocturne. Urgot has that pro level niche where he's able to make this level 6 pick.

V1.0.0.144:

Acid Hunter
Damage adjusted to 10/40/70/100/130 (+0.85 per total attack damage) from 50/80/110/140/170 (+1.2 per bonus Attack Damage).
V1.0.0.143:

Acid Hunter
Damage adjusted to 50/80/110/140/170 (+1.2 per bonus attack damage) from 10/40/70/100/130 (+0.85 per total attack damage).
Lock-on missile cast range reduced to 1200 from 1500.
Rank 1 range is no longer higher than other ranks.
Noxian Corrosive Charge
Cooldown increased to 15/14/13/12/11 seconds from 11 at all ranks.
Cast range reduced to 900 from 950.
Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser
Cast range reduced to 550/700/850 from 700/775/850.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Urgot/Background

Just another result of overreactions from Riot's balance team.

When were those nerfs? It was pretty good pick in all stars for US vs China, before Saint and DL went full retard and tier 2 bot turret.
liftlift > tsm
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
October 26 2013 09:26 GMT
#7036
if i remember correctly china got an entirely late game team and it was pretty much over after 30 mins completely
BW -> League -> CSGO
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-26 09:32:53
October 26 2013 09:31 GMT
#7037
On October 26 2013 13:43 canikizu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2013 12:38 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On October 26 2013 12:34 wei2coolman wrote:
On October 26 2013 12:32 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On October 26 2013 12:29 obesechicken13 wrote:
On October 26 2013 12:26 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Question for junglers: Why is the common route for mana junglers to be blue (with smite) -> wraiths -> golems -> red -> wraiths -> wolves or something similar where wolves are avoided until almost the last camp?

Mana junglers try not to do blue with smite. They try to save it for red.

It goes blue->red (smite) -> wraiths, etc...

Yea, but why are wolves always kind of a last resort on the route? Why not:
blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> red -> golems -> gank top/mid as level 4 -> wraiths -> golems (smite is usually back up for this second round when using smite on red) -> b

This is possible for yi at least if you skill q-e-w-q and it lets you go in to gank with nearly full hp still

Because then your top lane gets lvl 3 ganked. And this time it's legitimately your fault because your too busy jerking off in the jungle instead of ganking top. Or they walk into your jungle and rape you, cuz they lvl 3 and your lvl2 at wraiths.

Then you have your top play defensive around that time and you come in with level 4 + 3 vs 2 level 3's. And they need to do blue + red + another camp to hit 3, right? So you should be level 3 by the time they hit you as well since blue + wolves + wraiths gets you level 3.
On October 26 2013 12:35 Ketara wrote:
On October 26 2013 12:32 TheRabidDeer wrote:
On October 26 2013 12:29 obesechicken13 wrote:
On October 26 2013 12:26 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Question for junglers: Why is the common route for mana junglers to be blue (with smite) -> wraiths -> golems -> red -> wraiths -> wolves or something similar where wolves are avoided until almost the last camp?

Mana junglers try not to do blue with smite. They try to save it for red.

It goes blue->red (smite) -> wraiths, etc...

Yea, but why are wolves always kind of a last resort on the route? Why not:
blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> red -> golems -> gank top/mid as level 4 -> wraiths -> golems (smite is usually back up for this second round when using smite on red) -> b

This is possible for yi at least if you skill q-e-w-q and it lets you go in to gank with nearly full hp still


Because if you do it that way it's more like:

Blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> Oh my red is already gone I'm level 2 and the enemy jungler is level 4 and gets 3 buffs.

Or

Blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> Oh my top laner is already dead.

Do jungles really play so aggressive to invade after blue + red?

I mean, if the meta is the same then top should know to play back and you just abuse the meta and come out ahead in most cases it seems.

I think people gank at level 3 because there's basically nothing else to do after clearing blue/red. The only way to get to level 4 is to clear the golem camp or wait another minute, but clearing the golem camp isn't ideal since it is positioned in such a place that you really have to commit to get it, so most of the time, golem is the end route when there's nothing else to do.

It's advisable to try to gank at level 3 than to go golem for level 4. Not only it takes much longer time to get to level 4 (clear blue/red/wolf/wraith/golem compared to blue/red/(wraith)), but you kind of miss all the timing. Ganking at level 3, even if it's a success one or not, gain you one of these:
+ A kill
+ A summer spell burn
+ if the enemy feel afraid and get zoned out, your top/mid laner basically have 2 free waves since you're camping and waiting a minute for the neutral camp to respawn anyway.
+ if you gank and they have to burn 2 healthpot for example, that's basically you're swapping a golem camp for mid advantage (35+35 = 55+15), you lose your hp, but you have to go back to base anyway, so it doesn't really matter if you do it right.

One thing to mention that doing wolves at level 2 is very random, since wolves can do crit attack. If you do at level 2 and is unlucky, the wolf can burn you a couple of healthpot for free, which is kind of stupid. You should try to do the first wolf when you're about to go back to base or full health

The only good jungle route to get access to lvl 4 fast is when you're on the red side, which by clearing golem, you'll also have access to top lane. If you're blue and try to get to lvl 4 fast by clearing golem, you'll end up at bot, which is kind of useless at that point of the time.


top lane always pushes and never expects level 3 gank.
the higher up you get the more people come to countergank//the less people will push early on top lane so they can get ganked
atm most of my games have junglers farming to level 4 before ganking quite a bit now
a level 4 jungler will crush a level 3 jungler so if you waste time and then get counter ganked on the next attempt you could be screwed

i often kill wolves after blue so i can go red golems wraith wolves again. I think its fine as long as you are not scared of them stealing your red
miicah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2470 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-26 09:53:26
October 26 2013 09:32 GMT
#7038
On October 26 2013 17:40 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 26 2013 16:34 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think Urgot lost a lot of his strength after M5 did that thing with the Urgot and the Nocturne. Urgot has that pro level niche where he's able to make this level 6 pick.

V1.0.0.144:

Acid Hunter
Damage adjusted to 10/40/70/100/130 (+0.85 per total attack damage) from 50/80/110/140/170 (+1.2 per bonus Attack Damage).
V1.0.0.143:

Acid Hunter
Damage adjusted to 50/80/110/140/170 (+1.2 per bonus attack damage) from 10/40/70/100/130 (+0.85 per total attack damage).
Lock-on missile cast range reduced to 1200 from 1500.
Rank 1 range is no longer higher than other ranks.
Noxian Corrosive Charge
Cooldown increased to 15/14/13/12/11 seconds from 11 at all ranks.
Cast range reduced to 900 from 950.
Hyper-Kinetic Position Reverser
Cast range reduced to 550/700/850 from 700/775/850.
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Urgot/Background

Just another result of overreactions from Riot's balance team.

When were those nerfs? It was pretty good pick in all stars for US vs China, before Saint and DL went full retard and tier 2 bot turret.


Before All-stars.

EDIT: holy fuck he got nerfed in August 2012... rito pls
@miicah88
JazzVortical
Profile Joined July 2013
Australia1825 Posts
October 26 2013 09:56 GMT
#7039
There are a tonne of champs in the Urgot boat (outclassed by new champs in more than one way). He might be one of the worst though, considering his low pick and win rate.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
October 26 2013 10:15 GMT
#7040
urgot wasn't really outclassed, at least pre-nerfs. He had his own little niche, all by himself. The tear/muramana nerfs were the final nail in the coffin though. IIRC he was sitting at 45%ish before that, and afterwards dropped to his current state.

Really I think he needs a range buff up to like 475 or 500 so he doesn't get abused THAT hard before his skills really kick in, and probably a mana buff on either E, or a minor one on Q(like 5 mana or so).

Season 2 really gave urgot a way to scale somewhat well into mid-lategame with a unique playstyle, where E applied cleaver stacks rapidly, and muramana proc'd on Q's. Dealing 500 damage per Q to a squishy is pretty sick. The only problem right now is how badly urgot needs buffs.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
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