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[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 285

Forum Index > LoL General
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ZERG_RUSSIAN
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
10417 Posts
October 22 2013 17:52 GMT
#5681
On October 23 2013 02:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 02:39 TheYango wrote:
Cheep I don't agree with that. The fact that a strong player can make anything successful in a pub context does not invalidate discussion about what is more or less effective for winning pubs.


But that wasn't the discussion. I'm all for discussing TL Certified Pubstomp Strats (tm), but using solo q viability as a way of saying a character is "good" doesn't mean much.

To elaborate, there are two discussion topics:

1. How to win pubs. Perfectly fine.
2. What is viable/competitive/good in pubs. Not fine

Why? The latter is a moot point because the answer is everything.

If you ever want to have a discussion on viability, etc, it must only be in the context of top tier competitive play for the discussion to have any meaning.

What is the actual difference? Name me a champ that stomps pubs but isn't viable in competition?
I'm on GOLD CHAIN
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 22 2013 17:53 GMT
#5682
Geez, just because "everything works in soloQ" doesn't mean I can't cringe when we have Hecarim and Leona and the two last picks get AP Nidalee and Blue Ezreal.

(And no it's not a qq, it's in reference to the "soloQ means shit Galio not fp/ban material in comp play Galio utter shit" thing.)
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 22 2013 17:55 GMT
#5683
Should Xerath win lane against Fizz or do I play against trash fishes?
It's your boy Guzma!
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 17:57:16
October 22 2013 17:55 GMT
#5684
On October 23 2013 02:52 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 02:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On October 23 2013 02:39 TheYango wrote:
Cheep I don't agree with that. The fact that a strong player can make anything successful in a pub context does not invalidate discussion about what is more or less effective for winning pubs.


But that wasn't the discussion. I'm all for discussing TL Certified Pubstomp Strats (tm), but using solo q viability as a way of saying a character is "good" doesn't mean much.

To elaborate, there are two discussion topics:

1. How to win pubs. Perfectly fine.
2. What is viable/competitive/good in pubs. Not fine

Why? The latter is a moot point because the answer is everything.

If you ever want to have a discussion on viability, etc, it must only be in the context of top tier competitive play for the discussion to have any meaning.

What is the actual difference? Name me a champ that stomps pubs but isn't viable in competition?

every hero is viable in pubs because pubs comes down almost entirely to your individual skill versus the other team. if you're good enough, you will win. you dont need a hero who's "inherently good at pubs" or whatever to do so.

but if you want examples khazix rengar come to mind, among others

On October 23 2013 02:55 Requizen wrote:
Should Xerath win lane against Fizz or do I play against trash fishes?


you should never be able to kill him and he shouldnt be able to kill you (but its easier for him to punish your fuck up than vice versa), but you're vs a fizz so that counts as losing lane
TranslatorBaa!
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 22 2013 17:56 GMT
#5685
On October 23 2013 02:55 Requizen wrote:
Should Xerath win lane against Fizz or do I play against trash fishes?

Fizz should be able to wreck xerath post 6. And xerath doesn't have enough dmg early on to be kill threat pre 6.
liftlift > tsm
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
October 22 2013 17:57 GMT
#5686
On October 23 2013 02:55 Requizen wrote:
Should Xerath win lane against Fizz or do I play against trash fishes?


Probably trash fishies. Fizz can outplay xerath so hard, and using W post-6 is almost a free fish.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 18:08:56
October 22 2013 17:57 GMT
#5687
On October 23 2013 02:52 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 02:40 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On October 23 2013 02:39 TheYango wrote:
Cheep I don't agree with that. The fact that a strong player can make anything successful in a pub context does not invalidate discussion about what is more or less effective for winning pubs.


But that wasn't the discussion. I'm all for discussing TL Certified Pubstomp Strats (tm), but using solo q viability as a way of saying a character is "good" doesn't mean much.

To elaborate, there are two discussion topics:

1. How to win pubs. Perfectly fine.
2. What is viable/competitive/good in pubs. Not fine

Why? The latter is a moot point because the answer is everything.

If you ever want to have a discussion on viability, etc, it must only be in the context of top tier competitive play for the discussion to have any meaning.

What is the actual difference? Name me a champ that stomps pubs but isn't viable in competition?

Yi. Tryn. Rengar. Xin. Any jungler that can assasinate. Jungle Twitch. Because at the pro level everyone wards and everyone gets pink wards so ganks are much harder to do. You get more tower dives these days.

Jax(a month ago), Irelia. Anything that is horrible at 1v2 top.

Not Vayne. She gets put in 2v1's every chance people get at the pro level.
Not Blue Ezreal. People don't do poke comps in solo queue. The fights just happen and suddenly you're doing half the damage of the enemy ADC.
Not Nasus for quite a while. Any champion that wants to afk farm in solo queue will just end up letting their team get wiped in solo queue. He's probably strong enough now to get played in Pro games.

Any champion that likes to split push and duel. Fiora. Because at the pro level people react appropriately to split pushing by forcing fights and sending the right amount of people to stop it. And at the pro level fights don't just happen in the jungle because someone gets caught out that results in a team wipe.

Leblanc. Kassadin. Katarina. AP Sion. Old AP Yi. AP Nunu. Yorick. Snowbally champions that require playing against people that don't know how to play against it.

Nunu, Katarina, Yi. Champions that need coordinated teams that can stun them to counter them.

MF, Amumu. Any champion that can do the press R meta of solo queue.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
MattBarry
Profile Joined March 2011
United States4006 Posts
October 22 2013 18:00 GMT
#5688
I randomly decided to play Leblanc the other day and fell in love. I almost always get fed from lane kills and roaming but mid game I fall off pretty hard, how much should I focus on farming after laning phase? I often have games where I just stop farming because I'm roaming so much and end up really poor. I've figured DFG-void staff-dcap is probably the best build for burst but should I consider a zhonyas earlier instead for team fighting?

Also how the heck does Leblanc have such a low winrate, it's the 3rd lowest in the game.
Platinum Support GOD
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 22 2013 18:02 GMT
#5689
That's kind of what I thought. I just kind of focused on range farming (which he mostly couldn't stop me from doing unless I really got out of position) and stunning dives.

I think that's what I like most about Xerath, he's pretty hard to completely remove from lane unless you steamroll shit on him, I can just sit back and remain relevant through farm and long range support.
It's your boy Guzma!
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 18:02:50
October 22 2013 18:02 GMT
#5690
On October 23 2013 03:00 MattBarry wrote:

Also how the heck does Leblanc have such a low winrate, it's the 3rd lowest in the game.


solo q is really really really hard to close out because people like to dick around off early advantages so early game heroes with a huge drop off dont fare very well outside of those 20 minute surrender games
TranslatorBaa!
riotjune
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States3393 Posts
October 22 2013 18:05 GMT
#5691
If you're talking about just Fizz, I believe the correct term is "fish". If you're talking about different types of fish (like Fizz and Nami), then "fishes" is acceptable.

I think.
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
October 22 2013 18:06 GMT
#5692
On October 23 2013 03:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 03:00 MattBarry wrote:

Also how the heck does Leblanc have such a low winrate, it's the 3rd lowest in the game.


solo q is really really really hard to close out because people like to dick around off early advantages so early game heroes with a huge drop off dont fare very well outside of those 20 minute surrender games


Yeah

Basically, if you don't snowball and force the surrender or your team is smart enough to dive and destroy towers and get objectives early enough, you'll lose.

LB is incredibly gimmicky. If she doesn't get fed, she loses. People just like big numbers and love watching health bars disappear instantly.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
MattBarry
Profile Joined March 2011
United States4006 Posts
October 22 2013 18:07 GMT
#5693
On October 23 2013 03:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 03:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On October 23 2013 03:00 MattBarry wrote:

Also how the heck does Leblanc have such a low winrate, it's the 3rd lowest in the game.


solo q is really really really hard to close out because people like to dick around off early advantages so early game heroes with a huge drop off dont fare very well outside of those 20 minute surrender games


Yeah

Basically, if you don't snowball and force the surrender or your team is smart enough to dive and destroy towers and get objectives early enough, you'll lose.

LB is incredibly gimmicky. If she doesn't get fed, she loses. People just like big numbers and love watching health bars disappear instantly.

The jukes she is capable of is what makes her fun for me
Platinum Support GOD
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
October 22 2013 18:10 GMT
#5694
On October 23 2013 03:07 MattBarry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 03:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:
On October 23 2013 03:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On October 23 2013 03:00 MattBarry wrote:

Also how the heck does Leblanc have such a low winrate, it's the 3rd lowest in the game.


solo q is really really really hard to close out because people like to dick around off early advantages so early game heroes with a huge drop off dont fare very well outside of those 20 minute surrender games


Yeah

Basically, if you don't snowball and force the surrender or your team is smart enough to dive and destroy towers and get objectives early enough, you'll lose.

LB is incredibly gimmicky. If she doesn't get fed, she loses. People just like big numbers and love watching health bars disappear instantly.

The jukes she is capable of is what makes her fun for me

Can you execute a brushy brushy?
It's your boy Guzma!
MattBarry
Profile Joined March 2011
United States4006 Posts
October 22 2013 18:10 GMT
#5695
On October 23 2013 03:10 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 03:07 MattBarry wrote:
On October 23 2013 03:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:
On October 23 2013 03:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On October 23 2013 03:00 MattBarry wrote:

Also how the heck does Leblanc have such a low winrate, it's the 3rd lowest in the game.


solo q is really really really hard to close out because people like to dick around off early advantages so early game heroes with a huge drop off dont fare very well outside of those 20 minute surrender games


Yeah

Basically, if you don't snowball and force the surrender or your team is smart enough to dive and destroy towers and get objectives early enough, you'll lose.

LB is incredibly gimmicky. If she doesn't get fed, she loses. People just like big numbers and love watching health bars disappear instantly.

The jukes she is capable of is what makes her fun for me

Can you execute a brushy brushy?

A brushy....brushy?
Platinum Support GOD
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
October 22 2013 18:11 GMT
#5696
On October 23 2013 00:26 Lylat wrote:
Galio new mid fotm pls :

Who is this guy? Those clutch bulwarks against Lee and red buff were beautiful.

He uses bulwark and is just like "lol stop tickling me. hah. tiny damage. Oh wait I'm healing"
He was really accurate when it mattered too with the EQ combos.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
October 22 2013 18:11 GMT
#5697
A really good LB (and not that guy who gets fed in lane and roflolstomp through sheer numbers afterwards or just falls flat) is super scary, though.
It's a bit like playing Talon or Evelynn, you flank and stuff instead of staying with your team. And contrary to Ahri you don't care about blowing your ult on a support because it's on a 20s cd anyway.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-22 18:17:42
October 22 2013 18:17 GMT
#5698
On October 23 2013 03:10 MattBarry wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2013 03:10 Requizen wrote:
On October 23 2013 03:07 MattBarry wrote:
On October 23 2013 03:06 jcarlsoniv wrote:
On October 23 2013 03:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
On October 23 2013 03:00 MattBarry wrote:

Also how the heck does Leblanc have such a low winrate, it's the 3rd lowest in the game.


solo q is really really really hard to close out because people like to dick around off early advantages so early game heroes with a huge drop off dont fare very well outside of those 20 minute surrender games


Yeah

Basically, if you don't snowball and force the surrender or your team is smart enough to dive and destroy towers and get objectives early enough, you'll lose.

LB is incredibly gimmicky. If she doesn't get fed, she loses. People just like big numbers and love watching health bars disappear instantly.

The jukes she is capable of is what makes her fun for me

Can you execute a brushy brushy?

A brushy....brushy?

+ Show Spoiler +


It's your boy Guzma!
riotjune
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States3393 Posts
October 22 2013 18:27 GMT
#5699
Going to always check that brush now when hunting down a lb
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 22 2013 18:28 GMT
#5700
On October 23 2013 03:11 Alaric wrote:
A really good LB (and not that guy who gets fed in lane and roflolstomp through sheer numbers afterwards or just falls flat) is super scary, though.
It's a bit like playing Talon or Evelynn, you flank and stuff instead of staying with your team. And contrary to Ahri you don't care about blowing your ult on a support because it's on a 20s cd anyway.

Playing late game leblanc is the sign of a good leblanc. It's hard to grab flanks without getting caught.
liftlift > tsm
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