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Eleisas Miracle is sort of funny because its effect is one that carry-type champions would enjoy but its stats and the other effect are support-oriented. In my opinion the item is in a dire need of a complete rehaul.
On September 11 2013 04:57 kainzero wrote:
As support, support items suck.
When I'm playing DotA, if I can get a cool item like Arcane Boots or Mek or Force Staff, I feel like a boss. And it could potentially open up timings too, especially Mek or Blink.
When's the last time you played LoL and you said, "HEY GUYS I GOT SHARD OF TRUE ICE, LET'S GO FIGHT NOW!"
I don't care if I don't have money because I can only spend it on shitty items with marginal impact.
Supports in DotA have far less money though, I'm not sure how likely it is that you even get a Force Staff or Mek the entire game unless you mean stuff like Chen
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On September 11 2013 04:54 silencefc wrote:
I think Support items need to stop having regen on them.
Give us cost efficient, slot inefficient items with HP and CDR.
Ohmwrecker - Kindlegem + Kage's Pick
Eleisa's Miracle - Kindlegem
Mikael's Crucible - Kindlegem + Mana Manipulator
Reduce the combined cost on everything that builds out of Kage's.
Duo lanes will be renamed to DBZ lane.
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Some of you are pretty crazy about how much you haven't learned from forums. Maybe it's cause of how few resources there were from when the game first came out but without TL I seriously think I wouldn't be half as good as I am. Granted maybe most of you learn better by doing but most of my understanding of broad strategy for this game has come from reading TL and watching pro matches. Sure, lane phase and mechanics are 80-90% a result of my own practice and trial/error. But what I do during mid game or late game across every role is largely due to years of reading TL and watching people who are better than me who play this game.
Also, I think the notion of "only watching LCS for entertainment" implying you don't learn from it is ridiculously arrogant. If you can't learn anything from LCS you're either lying or not paying attention. Whether it's picking up on a specific team's playstyle or seeing a champion played differently than you're used to you're still learning things that are going to affect your play (even if the impact is really minor). Sure, OGN is still the gold standard of what to watch if you wish to improve your play. But unless you're already at the pro level NA/EU LCS, LPL, and Garena can still teach you things you don't know about this game.
LoL is still in it's infancy. There's a shit ton to learn from forums and pro play from any region.
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On September 11 2013 04:57 Shikyo wrote:Eleisas Miracle is sort of funny because its effect is one that carry-type champions would enjoy but its stats and the other effect are support-oriented. In my opinion the item is in a dire need of a complete rehaul. Show nested quote +On September 11 2013 04:57 kainzero wrote:
As support, support items suck.
When I'm playing DotA, if I can get a cool item like Arcane Boots or Mek or Force Staff, I feel like a boss. And it could potentially open up timings too, especially Mek or Blink.
When's the last time you played LoL and you said, "HEY GUYS I GOT SHARD OF TRUE ICE, LET'S GO FIGHT NOW!"
I don't care if I don't have money because I can only spend it on shitty items with marginal impact. Supports in DotA have far less money though, I'm not sure how likely it is that you even get a Force Staff or Mek the entire game unless you mean stuff like Chen
not necessarily correct about having less money
support gets adequate money from being able to double pull jungle camps and roaming all over the map to get kills
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United States47024 Posts
The DotA discussion with regard to support itemization is a little ironic because I'm certain that getting away from very concentrated farm allocation that was endemic to DotA was one of LoL's initial design goals, and now it feels like with each version DotA shifts towards more toward dispersed gold allocation while over the last season, teams are realizing more and more in LoL how the game mechanics support concentrated farm.
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Speaking of support items, what do people think of these changes that are I guess currently on the PBE:
Kage's Lucky Pick
Lucky Shadow now grants 5 gold per 10 seconds, up from 4.
Shard of True Ice
Lucky Shadow now grants 5 gold per 10 seconds, up from 4.
Is that enough to make anybody care about them?
Personally, I think the issue with Shard is not the stats on it, but the active. For 1600g the stats are actually not so bad, but the active is fairly useless. If they changed the active so that you could also use it on enemy champions I think it'd instantly turn into an obvious buy.
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If I were still living there I'd consider.
Sorry dood.
Edit: ACTUALLY it's on a Friday...hmmm........
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On September 11 2013 05:15 Ketara wrote:
Speaking of support items, what do people think of these changes that are I guess currently on the PBE:
Kage's Lucky Pick
Lucky Shadow now grants 5 gold per 10 seconds, up from 4.
Shard of True Ice
Lucky Shadow now grants 5 gold per 10 seconds, up from 4.
Is that enough to make anybody care about them?
Personally, I think the issue with Shard is not the stats on it, but the active. For 1600g the stats are actually not so bad, but the active is fairly useless. If they changed the active so that you could also use it on enemy champions I think it'd instantly turn into an obvious buy.
Actives are imo where the problem lies. Barely any of the item actives will be as impactful as more farm on a carry. Less stats and better item actives would be great. Sightstone was a good idea, and I still like it a lot. But all of the other high impact items for mid/late game are not items a support would get to buff his team. Zhonya, GA, Randuin, DFG, etc. A DFG type active for support items could be pretty fun. As in horrible stats for the money, building out of an item that would delay an ADC or jungler power curve, but when activated lowers the target armor or makes him take more physical damage for x seconds.
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Screw my ISP, even on medium Voyboy's stream lags like mad. >_> I wanna see that Viktor top. ~
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
Watching MLG rebroadcast some old C9 games. Oh god why was hai ever a jungler.
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On September 11 2013 05:15 Ketara wrote:
Speaking of support items, what do people think of these changes that are I guess currently on the PBE:
Kage's Lucky Pick
Lucky Shadow now grants 5 gold per 10 seconds, up from 4.
Shard of True Ice
Lucky Shadow now grants 5 gold per 10 seconds, up from 4.
Is that enough to make anybody care about them?
Personally, I think the issue with Shard is not the stats on it, but the active. For 1600g the stats are actually not so bad, but the active is fairly useless. If they changed the active so that you could also use it on enemy champions I think it'd instantly turn into an obvious buy.
What's the point of having a cost inefficient item give you more gold so you can buy other awful items? Might as well just stick to wards and oracles.
At the point where Kage's breaks even and is "worth it" then every AP mid would just buy it too.
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Went to the NA LCS final viewing party. It was awesome, I do recommend it. Actually talking to random people they were pretty knowledgeable - they knew that Maknoon was on KT-A and how good various players were.
Unfortunately can't go this time as I have commitments to attend to (curse you work!), but even if you go alone, I guarantee you'll enjoy yourself.
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I wonder if, assuming that Lucky Pick gave 5 GP10, Lucky Pick + Mana Manipulator would > Philo.
Lets assume that
A - I'm a support who doesn't mind having some mana regen (most supports)
B - I'm a support who likes having a little AP
C - A mana regen aura is at least somewhat useful for my team.
D - The HP regen on Philo is unimportant (most people would argue that it is, especially after laning phase)
Lucky Pick + Mana Manipulator would cost 365g more than Philo. For that you'd be getting 25 AP and the mana regen aura, with the same GP10.
I could definitely see that on say a Janna who doesn't desperately need mana regen herself and doesn't mind some AP.
The problem is at that point turning it into a Shard is just kind of a crappy idea. 535g combine cost for 20 AP and a terrible active.
I don't know many situations where the Shard active is worthwhile. Basically the situation where it's good is if you have a champion who dives into fights but doesn't provide his own CC, which is very few champions. Wukong and Fiora maybe. It's fun to use on Tibbers. Any other ideas?
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i just want that crucible item to be a little better so you can save that one fucking guy who always gets ashe arrowed or charmed or something else under his own tower before he dies instantly in the cc duration
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Lol should just have a ward courier. Going back for wards is lame, and is also reason #1324132 that only supports buy wards, because you can contest (or at least posture for) major objectives without your support, but not without any other person on the team.
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On September 11 2013 05:30 Ketara wrote:
I wonder if, assuming that Lucky Pick gave 5 GP10, Lucky Pick + Mana Manipulator would > Philo.
Lets assume that
A - I'm a support who doesn't mind having some mana regen (most supports)
B - I'm a support who likes having a little AP
C - A mana regen aura is at least somewhat useful for my team.
D - The HP regen on Philo is unimportant (most people would argue that it is, especially after laning phase)
Lucky Pick + Mana Manipulator would cost 365g more than Philo. For that you'd be getting 25 AP and the mana regen aura, with the same GP10.
I could definitely see that on say a Janna who doesn't desperately need mana regen herself and doesn't mind some AP.
The problem is at that point turning it into a Shard is just kind of a crappy idea. 535g combine cost for 20 AP and a terrible active.
I don't know many situations where the Shard active is worthwhile. Basically the situation where it's good is if you have a champion who dives into fights but doesn't provide his own CC, which is very few champions. Wukong and Fiora maybe. It's fun to use on Tibbers. Any other ideas?
I've seen a few Zyra's use shard on their seeds for zone control, thought that was cute.
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On September 11 2013 05:25 Alaric wrote:
Screw my ISP, even on medium Voyboy's stream lags like mad. >_> I wanna see that Viktor top. ~
Spoiler alert - it doesn't work very well.
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shard active so fun to use on tibbers
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Baa?21243 Posts
On September 11 2013 05:41 ComaDose wrote:
shard active so fun to use on tibbers
you can use it on tibbers?? wtf??
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EPT
