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On July 11 2013 07:31 Gahlo wrote:
Since it didn't gain any traction in the Vi thread, what do people think about AS/Armor/MR/ArPen? Stole the idea from TOO's Nocturne setup. You get your AS while giving solid amounts of penetration.
Don't see why that wouldn't work; Udyr has similar rune setup except MS quints instead.
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AS reds are a pretty underrated jungler runeset. It increases most AAing junglers' initial clear times imo.
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![[image loading]](http://competitive.na.leagueoflegends.com/sites/default/files/upload/ubc_photo_1.png)
Somebody, find the Yiruru.
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On July 11 2013 07:31 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:27 Lord Tolkien wrote:On July 11 2013 07:25 beefhamburger wrote:That random AP ratio. It seems Riot really wants Triforce to be mandatory on him. + Show Spoiler + Hohoho. 7276 damage. I really do hope Zenon sees this. That is cray cray. So that's why they removed AP yi; to make room for AP lucian.
He already commented about the AP ratio and said he turned it down in next patch.
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On July 11 2013 07:27 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:25 beefhamburger wrote:That random AP ratio. It seems Riot really wants Triforce to be mandatory on him. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/dqAQUwV.jpg) Hohoho. 7276 damage. I really do hope Zenon sees this. That is cray cray.
For reference, a level 18 tristana with IE+zerks+BT+PD will do 3235 in 3 seconds by only autoattacking with Q active, while proccing lifesteal and not being able to miss any shots.
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On July 11 2013 07:32 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:31 Gahlo wrote:
Since it didn't gain any traction in the Vi thread, what do people think about AS/Armor/MR/ArPen? Stole the idea from TOO's Nocturne setup. You get your AS while giving solid amounts of penetration. Don't see why that wouldn't work; Udyr has similar rune setup except MS quints instead.
It's more of my way to say "Eyo try this over AD quints." because I have no confidence in my ability to play this game.
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On July 11 2013 07:38 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:27 Lord Tolkien wrote:On July 11 2013 07:25 beefhamburger wrote:That random AP ratio. It seems Riot really wants Triforce to be mandatory on him. Hohoho. 7276 damage. I really do hope Zenon sees this. That is cray cray. For reference, a level 18 tristana with IE+zerks+BT+PD will do 3235 in 3 seconds by only autoattacking with Q active, while proccing lifesteal and not being able to miss any shots.
I really don't see why they need to tune down the AP ratios for Lucian. Who cares if he has 1 spell that does something awesome and is useless for 30 seconds? Its a fun build for fun situations which is great imo.
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On July 11 2013 07:41 ReketSomething wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:38 thenexusp wrote:On July 11 2013 07:27 Lord Tolkien wrote:On July 11 2013 07:25 beefhamburger wrote:That random AP ratio. It seems Riot really wants Triforce to be mandatory on him. Hohoho. 7276 damage. I really do hope Zenon sees this. That is cray cray. For reference, a level 18 tristana with IE+zerks+BT+PD will do 3235 in 3 seconds by only autoattacking with Q active, while proccing lifesteal and not being able to miss any shots. I really don't see why they need to tune down the AP ratios for Lucian. Who cares if he has 1 spell that does something awesome and is useless for 30 seconds? Its a fun build for fun situations which is great imo.
His W (the star explosion move) also has a 0.9 AD + 0.9 AP ratio on a 10s CD ratio (6s with max CDR).
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On July 11 2013 07:31 Gahlo wrote:
Since it didn't gain any traction in the Vi thread, what do people think about AS/Armor/MR/ArPen? Stole the idea from TOO's Nocturne setup. You get your AS while giving solid amounts of penetration.
Yeah I read that but was busy and didn't come back to it. >_<
It's basically math to see if it helps your first clear I guess. I def. prefer AS marks over other options because it makes killing high-HP stuff (basically big monsters, drake (depending on debuff since it affects AS and not AD) and champions, but squishies will die before you really get to "dps" them because of burst) faster, but ArPen/AD for gank burst, or AD/AD for a balanced setup is def. possible.
She basically "incidentally" kills small monsters anyway, I guess I'll have a look at it tomorrow if I find the time to look at the big monsters numbers and make some dps calculations.
It's probably not big enough (early game at least, since we know ArPen > AD late game) to warrant buying ArPen quints just for that, considering that ArPen/AD beats AD/ArPen, you don't have much incentive to buy those runes ('cept if you want a hyper-aggro ArPen/ArPen page on like Urgot) and it comes down to how much IP and available runepages do you have.
Regarding Veigar having trouble reaching his targets (and gibbing them, much like any assassin, I mean Talon's 10s cd gap closer at level 18 suffers a bunch too, esp. as he can't faceroll as fast as Kha or Zed w/o getting cc'd), do you think he could have an easier time if picked against a team which favours diving, so that he can counter-initiate with his W (a bit like Sona does, rather than Flash-ult like we all did a few months back), and have his priority targets actually want to come to him?
It wouldn't make killing them any easier, and it'd mean you'd have to pick him pretty late to recognise those situations, but it would alleviate his issues with reaching targets w/o over-exposing himself or blowing Flash.
(And as I wrote, "easier time" rather than "suddenly become good". Just trying to identify a niche where he'd have more success past his relative power peak.)
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On July 11 2013 07:54 beefhamburger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:41 ReketSomething wrote:On July 11 2013 07:38 thenexusp wrote:On July 11 2013 07:27 Lord Tolkien wrote:On July 11 2013 07:25 beefhamburger wrote:That random AP ratio. It seems Riot really wants Triforce to be mandatory on him. Hohoho. 7276 damage. I really do hope Zenon sees this. That is cray cray. For reference, a level 18 tristana with IE+zerks+BT+PD will do 3235 in 3 seconds by only autoattacking with Q active, while proccing lifesteal and not being able to miss any shots. I really don't see why they need to tune down the AP ratios for Lucian. Who cares if he has 1 spell that does something awesome and is useless for 30 seconds? Its a fun build for fun situations which is great imo. His W (the star explosion move) also has a 0.9 AD + 0.9 AP ratio on a 10s CD ratio (6s with max CDR).
I wouldn't tune it down because it'll be another ADC with alternative build(Ezreal, and I suppose machinegun vayne). Might not be full AP for a viable build, but if they could make nashor's trinity LW a viable core, then that would be awesome. Maybe add a zephyr+blue pot or blue buff+ bork to max CDR and make full use of the passive and low cooldowns, along with the massive ultimate scaling.
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On July 11 2013 07:59 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:31 Gahlo wrote:
Since it didn't gain any traction in the Vi thread, what do people think about AS/Armor/MR/ArPen? Stole the idea from TOO's Nocturne setup. You get your AS while giving solid amounts of penetration. Yeah I read that but was busy and didn't come back to it. >_< It's basically math to see if it helps your first clear I guess. I def. prefer AS marks over other options because it makes killing high-HP stuff (basically big monsters, drake (depending on debuff since it affects AS and not AD) and champions, but squishies will die before you really get to "dps" them because of burst) faster, but ArPen/AD for gank burst, or AD/AD for a balanced setup is def. possible. She basically "incidentally" kills small monsters anyway, I guess I'll have a look at it tomorrow if I find the time to look at the big monsters numbers and make some dps calculations. It's probably not big enough (early game at least, since we know ArPen > AD late game) to warrant buying ArPen quints just for that, considering that ArPen/AD beats AD/ArPen, you don't have much incentive to buy those runes ('cept if you want a hyper-aggro ArPen/ArPen page on like Urgot) and it comes down to how much IP and available runepages do you have. Regarding Veigar having trouble reaching his targets (and gibbing them, much like any assassin, I mean Talon's 10s cd gap closer at level 18 suffers a bunch too, esp. as he can't faceroll as fast as Kha or Zed w/o getting cc'd), do you think he could have an easier time if picked against a team which favours diving, so that he can counter-initiate with his W (a bit like Sona does, rather than Flash-ult like we all did a few months back), and have his priority targets actually want to come to him? It wouldn't make killing them any easier, and it'd mean you'd have to pick him pretty late to recognise those situations, but it would alleviate his issues with reaching targets w/o over-exposing himself or blowing Flash. (And as I wrote, "easier time" rather than "suddenly become good". Just trying to identify a niche where he'd have more success past his relative power peak.)
I think (don't know) that this is a position he would be decent in. I was asking/saying earlier about how strong his dragon and baron control can be, if you are ahead. Like, those baits would be strong, your ability to siege safely is strong. But that means you are ahead, and how to get ahead?
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On July 11 2013 08:03 Amui wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:54 beefhamburger wrote:On July 11 2013 07:41 ReketSomething wrote:On July 11 2013 07:38 thenexusp wrote:On July 11 2013 07:27 Lord Tolkien wrote:On July 11 2013 07:25 beefhamburger wrote:That random AP ratio. It seems Riot really wants Triforce to be mandatory on him. Hohoho. 7276 damage. I really do hope Zenon sees this. That is cray cray. For reference, a level 18 tristana with IE+zerks+BT+PD will do 3235 in 3 seconds by only autoattacking with Q active, while proccing lifesteal and not being able to miss any shots. I really don't see why they need to tune down the AP ratios for Lucian. Who cares if he has 1 spell that does something awesome and is useless for 30 seconds? Its a fun build for fun situations which is great imo. His W (the star explosion move) also has a 0.9 AD + 0.9 AP ratio on a 10s CD ratio (6s with max CDR). I wouldn't tune it down because it'll be another ADC with alternative build(Ezreal, and I suppose machinegun vayne). Might not be full AP for a viable build, but if they could make nashor's trinity LW a viable core, then that would be awesome.
Cue LB procs, everywhere.
I mean really, the burst would be hilarious in a 1v1 situation.
So yeah, yet another 6 item AP carry I would prefer over Veigar. /snarksnark
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On July 11 2013 07:41 ReketSomething wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:38 thenexusp wrote:On July 11 2013 07:27 Lord Tolkien wrote:On July 11 2013 07:25 beefhamburger wrote:That random AP ratio. It seems Riot really wants Triforce to be mandatory on him. Hohoho. 7276 damage. I really do hope Zenon sees this. That is cray cray. For reference, a level 18 tristana with IE+zerks+BT+PD will do 3235 in 3 seconds by only autoattacking with Q active, while proccing lifesteal and not being able to miss any shots. I really don't see why they need to tune down the AP ratios for Lucian. Who cares if he has 1 spell that does something awesome and is useless for 30 seconds? Its a fun build for fun situations which is great imo.
Sounds like AP Yi.
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On July 11 2013 07:59 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:31 Gahlo wrote:
Since it didn't gain any traction in the Vi thread, what do people think about AS/Armor/MR/ArPen? Stole the idea from TOO's Nocturne setup. You get your AS while giving solid amounts of penetration. Yeah I read that but was busy and didn't come back to it. >_< It's basically math to see if it helps your first clear I guess. I def. prefer AS marks over other options because it makes killing high-HP stuff (basically big monsters, drake (depending on debuff since it affects AS and not AD) and champions, but squishies will die before you really get to "dps" them because of burst) faster, but ArPen/AD for gank burst, or AD/AD for a balanced setup is def. possible. She basically "incidentally" kills small monsters anyway, I guess I'll have a look at it tomorrow if I find the time to look at the big monsters numbers and make some dps calculations. It's probably not big enough (early game at least, since we know ArPen > AD late game) to warrant buying ArPen quints just for that, considering that ArPen/AD beats AD/ArPen, you don't have much incentive to buy those runes ('cept if you want a hyper-aggro ArPen/ArPen page on like Urgot) and it comes down to how much IP and available runepages do you have. Regarding Veigar having trouble reaching his targets (and gibbing them, much like any assassin, I mean Talon's 10s cd gap closer at level 18 suffers a bunch too, esp. as he can't faceroll as fast as Kha or Zed w/o getting cc'd), do you think he could have an easier time if picked against a team which favours diving, so that he can counter-initiate with his W (a bit like Sona does, rather than Flash-ult like we all did a few months back), and have his priority targets actually want to come to him? It wouldn't make killing them any easier, and it'd mean you'd have to pick him pretty late to recognise those situations, but it would alleviate his issues with reaching targets w/o over-exposing himself or blowing Flash. (And as I wrote, "easier time" rather than "suddenly become good". Just trying to identify a niche where he'd have more success past his relative power peak.)
I have ArPen quints from when ArPen/armor/mr/ArPen was standard on ADC. They're nice on people like Fiora that have their massive AD passives too. The 7.75 from quints and 5 from masteries puts you at 13.7, enough to do true damage against all nonbuff monsters outside of Big Wraith, who ends up with like...1. Also effectively strips off peoples seals.
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On July 11 2013 07:31 Gahlo wrote:
Since it didn't gain any traction in the Vi thread, what do people think about AS/Armor/MR/ArPen? Stole the idea from TOO's Nocturne setup. You get your AS while giving solid amounts of penetration.
For ad junglers like her or nocturne i use a page stolen from XJ9 whitch is a weird mix od AD, AS and arPen. AD quints, 3 arpen and the rest is AS red (10% AS).
Not sure what the science behind it is but i trust xj9 ok
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On July 11 2013 08:14 SagaZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:31 Gahlo wrote:
Since it didn't gain any traction in the Vi thread, what do people think about AS/Armor/MR/ArPen? Stole the idea from TOO's Nocturne setup. You get your AS while giving solid amounts of penetration. For ad junglers like her or nocturne i use a page stolen from XJ9 whitch is a weird mix od AD, AS and arPen. AD quints, 3 arpen and the rest is AS red (10% AS). Not sure what the science behind it is but i trust xj9 ok
makes 10arpen which is enough to do true damage to jungle monsters i think, when combined with the +6 from the ad tree
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On July 11 2013 08:14 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2013 07:59 Alaric wrote:On July 11 2013 07:31 Gahlo wrote:
Since it didn't gain any traction in the Vi thread, what do people think about AS/Armor/MR/ArPen? Stole the idea from TOO's Nocturne setup. You get your AS while giving solid amounts of penetration. Yeah I read that but was busy and didn't come back to it. >_< It's basically math to see if it helps your first clear I guess. I def. prefer AS marks over other options because it makes killing high-HP stuff (basically big monsters, drake (depending on debuff since it affects AS and not AD) and champions, but squishies will die before you really get to "dps" them because of burst) faster, but ArPen/AD for gank burst, or AD/AD for a balanced setup is def. possible. She basically "incidentally" kills small monsters anyway, I guess I'll have a look at it tomorrow if I find the time to look at the big monsters numbers and make some dps calculations. It's probably not big enough (early game at least, since we know ArPen > AD late game) to warrant buying ArPen quints just for that, considering that ArPen/AD beats AD/ArPen, you don't have much incentive to buy those runes ('cept if you want a hyper-aggro ArPen/ArPen page on like Urgot) and it comes down to how much IP and available runepages do you have. Regarding Veigar having trouble reaching his targets (and gibbing them, much like any assassin, I mean Talon's 10s cd gap closer at level 18 suffers a bunch too, esp. as he can't faceroll as fast as Kha or Zed w/o getting cc'd), do you think he could have an easier time if picked against a team which favours diving, so that he can counter-initiate with his W (a bit like Sona does, rather than Flash-ult like we all did a few months back), and have his priority targets actually want to come to him? It wouldn't make killing them any easier, and it'd mean you'd have to pick him pretty late to recognise those situations, but it would alleviate his issues with reaching targets w/o over-exposing himself or blowing Flash. (And as I wrote, "easier time" rather than "suddenly become good". Just trying to identify a niche where he'd have more success past his relative power peak.) I have ArPen quints from when ArPen/armor/mr/ArPen was standard on ADC. They're nice on people like Fiora that have their massive AD passives too.
I have Crit Damage quints/reds from when CritDam/armor/mr/CritDam was standard on ADC. They uh... don't get much use.
Can anyone recommend a mouse brand or model that is known for its durability? I don't really need more than 2 buttons/scroll wheel, I'm just tired of buying 10$ logitechs once a year and my current one randomly double-clicks (I thought it wouldn't do anything in LoL for a while until I accidentally the whole item shop).
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Ah yeah, forgot to put that into the post, but Nocturne's got his passive AS on W (always thought it was 10% at level 1, passively 20% is actually not bad at all x_o) and bonus AD on Q's trail, so ArPen scales a bit with that. Not sure how it interacts with Vi because she's got the weird combo of aa reset/burst then the dps from W.
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On July 11 2013 08:19 Alaric wrote:
Ah yeah, forgot to put that into the post, but Nocturne's got his passive AS on W (always thought it was 10% at level 1, passively 20% is actually not bad at all x_o) and bonus AD on Q's trail, so ArPen scales a bit with that. Not sure how it interacts with Vi because she's got the weird combo of aa reset/burst then the dps from W.
I'll do the math later tonight when I get to my sisters house in a couple hours.
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EPT
