• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:52
CET 17:52
KST 01:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation12Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion What happened to TvZ on Retro? Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2051 users

[Patch 3.08: Aatrox Patch] General Discussion - Page 105

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 103 104 105 106 107 380 Next
Interested in helping start an on-topic, serious League discussion thread? PM Neo to talk about how to get started.
Dandel Ion
Profile Joined November 2010
Austria17960 Posts
June 18 2013 17:36 GMT
#2081
On June 19 2013 02:26 cLutZ wrote:
Good god nothing is funnier than an Aatrox with a Ga.

Get caught, rest of team runs away. We camp the body for like 15 seconds.

InB4 Atroxx, Zilean, Yorik comps.

yorick top, aatrox jungle, anivia mid, zilean support.

Sadly no reviving ADCs yet, but you can roll with Kayle I suppose.

Everyone buys GA obviously.
A backwards poet writes inverse.
bmn
Profile Joined August 2010
886 Posts
June 18 2013 17:37 GMT
#2082
On June 19 2013 02:27 nafta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2013 02:21 thenexusp wrote:
On June 19 2013 00:59 Gahlo wrote:
On June 18 2013 22:31 bmn wrote:
Are these numbers really right?
- 64.7% of teams with a gold lead at 10 minutes going on to win the game
- At 10 minutes the gold lead went to the Purple team 76.4% of the time
- The Blue team wins 60% of the games


I think I heard a statistic last split that if a team is up 10%(or was it 20%?) at 12 minutes they had a 90% chance of winning.

It really depends on the relative skill levels of the teams involved.

If there is a big gap between skill levels (so that the best team always beats the second best always beats the third best), then the team that has a gold advantage at 10 minutes will always go on to win the game, simply because they were the better team throughout the entire game. On the other hand, if your teams are as good at throwing as NA is, the 10 minute advantage is going to mean a lot less.


You could view the gold advantage as a disadvantage because you actually have to use your advantage to get more of an advantage which in turn is a disadvantage because people like to throw away advantages.


But if having less gold is an advantage than thata is a disadvantage because they actually have to use their advantage and people like to throw their advantages...


As for the statistics, looking at the data I don't really feel like there's enough games to make any meaningful statement based on the numbers alone (without looking at the full games, the teams involved, etc.).
There's a 0% chance of blue having the 10-minute gold advantage and losing a game after that, if you assume that those 20 games are representative. So if you have an advantage at 10 minutes and you're blue side, you can't lose!

Out of the 20 games only 17 had a gold difference at 10 minutes if you look at a 0.1k granularity. That's a terribly small sample size to extrapolate from, given all the variance there -- the games were different teams, different champs, different lane setups, all of which make such a small population size fairly useless, in my opinion.

Another example: Purple 10 min gold lead happened in 13 of 17 games. In 7 of those games, purple won, in 6 of them, blue won.
So if you're blue and you have a gold lead at 10, you'll always win; if you're purple, a 10 min gold lead only barely puts you above 50% win chances.
(Changing even just one game outcome will really change the numbers you'll get.)
I'd not put my money on those conclusions. :-)
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
June 18 2013 17:38 GMT
#2083
On June 19 2013 02:36 Dandel Ion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2013 02:26 cLutZ wrote:
Good god nothing is funnier than an Aatrox with a Ga.

Get caught, rest of team runs away. We camp the body for like 15 seconds.

InB4 Atroxx, Zilean, Yorik comps.

yorick top, aatrox jungle, anivia mid, zilean support.

Sadly no reviving ADCs yet, but you can roll with Kayle I suppose.

Everyone buys GA obviously.


Just get Kog. After Zil ult, GA, and Yorick ult finally expire, he blows up in your face.
upperbound
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2300 Posts
June 18 2013 17:48 GMT
#2084
On June 19 2013 01:00 Simberto wrote:
So, is there anything that works against Zac top? Or do you just need to always ban him in soloqueue if you are not firstpick?

No way to threaten him in lane, absurd engage, absurd escape, absurd sustain, absurd tankiness, absurd damage. Same for jungle, just add absurd ganks in there.

The couple of times I played Kennen against Zac top there wasn't much he could do to me. I had full control over engages with the stun, and you can outplay his jump with your E.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
June 18 2013 18:16 GMT
#2085
Are there any Champions that people just rage ban? Like, ones that might be strong, but probably aren't totally ban-worthy except for the fact that you can't fight them and hate them with a passion?

I have to ban Draven whenever I'm first pick these days. I just can't fucking beat him, even though I know there must be a way. Shaco has also fallen into this category at various points in my LoL career.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
FSKi
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States901 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-18 18:22:12
June 18 2013 18:20 GMT
#2086
--- Nuked ---
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
June 18 2013 18:22 GMT
#2087
On June 19 2013 03:16 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Are there any Champions that people just rage ban? Like, ones that might be strong, but probably aren't totally ban-worthy except for the fact that you can't fight them and hate them with a passion?

I have to ban Draven whenever I'm first pick these days. I just can't fucking beat him, even though I know there must be a way. Shaco has also fallen into this category at various points in my LoL career.

Fuck Lee Sin

Used to be Jayce when people considered him "not ban worthy", I'd still ban that fucker because I was ahead of the meta.
It's your boy Guzma!
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-18 18:25:06
June 18 2013 18:23 GMT
#2088
On June 19 2013 01:00 Simberto wrote:
So, is there anything that works against Zac top? Or do you just need to always ban him in soloqueue if you are not firstpick?

No way to threaten him in lane, absurd engage, absurd escape, absurd sustain, absurd tankiness, absurd damage. Same for jungle, just add absurd ganks in there.

His sustain isn't even that good. You just need to pick someone who can harrass him hardcore while perhaps being able to sustain yourself. His laning isn't that strong in my opinion.

On June 19 2013 03:16 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Are there any Champions that people just rage ban? Like, ones that might be strong, but probably aren't totally ban-worthy except for the fact that you can't fight them and hate them with a passion?

I have to ban Draven whenever I'm first pick these days. I just can't fucking beat him, even though I know there must be a way. Shaco has also fallen into this category at various points in my LoL career.

Draven is like #1 or top 3 in winrate and always carries bot. I see that as just an intelligent ban, he absolutely is ban-worthy.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
June 18 2013 18:24 GMT
#2089
On June 19 2013 03:16 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Are there any Champions that people just rage ban? Like, ones that might be strong, but probably aren't totally ban-worthy except for the fact that you can't fight them and hate them with a passion?

I have to ban Draven whenever I'm first pick these days. I just can't fucking beat him, even though I know there must be a way. Shaco has also fallen into this category at various points in my LoL career.


If I wanna play mid I usually ban Kassadin. He just isn't fun to play against as a mage and I don't really enjoy playing AD mids that much. Plus it's basically guaranteed that if they get Kassadin and you do fine in lane he'll just out roam you and kill your teammates over and over again.

I don't think he's ban worthy, if I'm not gonna play mid I leave him open, but I just don't enjoy laning against him at all. Even if I crush him in lane I just feel bad that people enjoy playing that champion.
AsmodeusXI
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States15536 Posts
June 18 2013 18:28 GMT
#2090
On June 19 2013 03:23 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2013 03:16 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Are there any Champions that people just rage ban? Like, ones that might be strong, but probably aren't totally ban-worthy except for the fact that you can't fight them and hate them with a passion?

I have to ban Draven whenever I'm first pick these days. I just can't fucking beat him, even though I know there must be a way. Shaco has also fallen into this category at various points in my LoL career.

Draven is like #1 or top 3 in winrate and always carries bot. I see that as just an intelligent ban, he absolutely is ban-worthy.


That makes me feel better. I feel like no one really knows how to play against him, myself included. My best guess is just Janna and pray my laning partner stays back. :/

Eve also, for obvious reasons.
WriterTL > RL. BNet: Asmodeus#1187 - LoL: DJForeclosure - Steam: asmodeusxi | www.n3rddimension.com
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
June 18 2013 18:30 GMT
#2091
On June 19 2013 03:23 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2013 01:00 Simberto wrote:
So, is there anything that works against Zac top? Or do you just need to always ban him in soloqueue if you are not firstpick?

No way to threaten him in lane, absurd engage, absurd escape, absurd sustain, absurd tankiness, absurd damage. Same for jungle, just add absurd ganks in there.

His sustain isn't even that good. You just need to pick someone who can harrass him hardcore while perhaps being able to sustain yourself. His laning isn't that strong in my opinion.

Show nested quote +
On June 19 2013 03:16 AsmodeusXI wrote:
Are there any Champions that people just rage ban? Like, ones that might be strong, but probably aren't totally ban-worthy except for the fact that you can't fight them and hate them with a passion?

I have to ban Draven whenever I'm first pick these days. I just can't fucking beat him, even though I know there must be a way. Shaco has also fallen into this category at various points in my LoL career.

Draven is like #1 or top 3 in winrate and always carries bot. I see that as just an intelligent ban, he absolutely is ban-worthy.


Yea, Zac is played competitively mostly because he is the most anti-dive champion in the game for a 1v2 lane.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
nafta
Profile Joined August 2010
Bulgaria18893 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-18 18:31:23
June 18 2013 18:30 GMT
#2092
God damn pros just had to get draven to fotm.I really don't have a problem if my main is popular but it usually means other team denies it .At least you get free wins because people got high playing only him and now when he gets banned and they have to play standart ad-s they suck.

How to play vs draven>hope he makes a mistake.Only other way is to go leona/varus or something bursty like this and os him.No point trading really.
Parametric
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1261 Posts
June 18 2013 18:31 GMT
#2093
Pick zyra support vs draven, play passive till level 2 and then you have a giant glowing target to aim at for a free root + slow plant. Even if he has cleanse the plant will just keep slowing him forever.
Crispy Bacon craving overload.
LaNague
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany9118 Posts
June 18 2013 18:34 GMT
#2094
i used to ban lee sin the jungle jerk all the time, but people stopped playing him.

when enemy has lee sin, whenever i do ANYTHING in lane, he comes from somewhere, shields the enemy and then Qs to me.
captharlock
Profile Joined September 2010
United States223 Posts
June 18 2013 18:40 GMT
#2095
If I could I would ban Vayne from existence. 99% of the people that play Vayne when I'm support suck at her and tend to feed a storm.
Baneslayer Angel could be hungover, slightly blind, and texting while flying and still win the game
mordek
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States12705 Posts
June 18 2013 18:40 GMT
#2096
I used to pick Janna into Draven but my last game I was Leona with Ez before he was picked. My Ez just pinged every time he wanted to all-in and we went 1-0 or 2-1 every time. I was pleasantly surprised as I normally lose to Draven bot lane every time lol.
It is vanity to love what passes quickly and not to look ahead where eternal joy abides. Tiberius77 | Mordek #1881 "I took a mint!"
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
June 18 2013 18:42 GMT
#2097
On June 19 2013 03:40 captharlock wrote:
If I could I would ban Vayne from existence. 99% of the people that play Vayne when I'm support suck at her and tend to feed a storm.


maybe you suck at supporting vaynes
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-18 18:43:43
June 18 2013 18:43 GMT
#2098
Yeah I used to ban all the ninjas - lee sin, shen, akali mostly, kennen from time to time.
I hate them all.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
June 18 2013 18:44 GMT
#2099
On June 19 2013 03:42 Slayer91 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2013 03:40 captharlock wrote:
If I could I would ban Vayne from existence. 99% of the people that play Vayne when I'm support suck at her and tend to feed a storm.


maybe you suck at supporting vaynes

Everyone sucks at supporting Vayne.
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
June 18 2013 18:44 GMT
#2100
On June 19 2013 03:44 kainzero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 19 2013 03:42 Slayer91 wrote:
On June 19 2013 03:40 captharlock wrote:
If I could I would ban Vayne from existence. 99% of the people that play Vayne when I'm support suck at her and tend to feed a storm.


maybe you suck at supporting vaynes

Everyone sucks at supporting Vayne.

Pick Tresh, vayne will support you.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Prev 1 103 104 105 106 107 380 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL teamleague CNvsASH, ASHvRR
Freeedom23
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 305
LamboSC2 150
mcanning 67
ROOTCatZ 35
MindelVK 15
EmSc Tv 10
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 30230
Rain 2647
Calm 2051
Shuttle 472
Stork 395
firebathero 247
Barracks 143
Shinee 104
LaStScan 103
Leta 82
[ Show more ]
Rock 45
Dewaltoss 43
Mong 35
Shine 22
zelot 14
Movie 14
Oystein6
Dota 2
Gorgc5733
qojqva1864
Dendi948
XcaliburYe112
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1089
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor377
Liquid`Hasu197
Other Games
B2W.Neo1991
Mlord447
Beastyqt305
DeMusliM256
Lowko216
Fuzer 189
Hui .163
Trikslyr33
CadenZie12
febbydoto7
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream7725
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream1232
Other Games
EGCTV636
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 10
EmSc2Tv 10
angryscii 5
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 64
• HeavenSC 35
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 8
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1521
• Ler53
League of Legends
• Nemesis3014
Other Games
• WagamamaTV343
• Shiphtur181
• imaqtpie20
Upcoming Events
IPSL
8m
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
OSC
2h 8m
BSL 21
3h 8m
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
17h 8m
RSL Revival
17h 8m
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
19h 8m
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs TBD
WardiTV Korean Royale
19h 8m
BSL 21
1d 3h
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
1d 3h
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
1d 6h
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
1d 19h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
BSL: GosuLeague
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
BSL: GosuLeague
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-14
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.