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Looks like we're back to status quo. Hope more of you lurkers unburrow and talk with us. :3 If you have any issues or comments about the new design, feel free to PM Neo. |
United States23745 Posts
On May 31 2013 13:33 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 12:53 RagequitBM wrote:On May 31 2013 10:24 overt wrote:On May 31 2013 10:20 ketchup wrote:On May 31 2013 10:07 overt wrote:On May 31 2013 09:38 Spaiku wrote:
I got into LoL at the end of season 2 so i'm not familiar with Chauster as a support. I've only seen him as a jungler with 50 cs by 40 minutes into the game sitting on top of Doublelift.
Were they really the best bot lane in the world? Why did he stop playing support? Does he have to potencial to be a great support again? His mechanics look really bad -_-, at least Aphro was good at that.
I may be wrong (don't know much about Chauster/Dlift bot in the past) but to me it seems like they will be decent in NA like Aphro/Dlift was and they will get destroyed in Worlds. They were probably top 5 bot lane in the world. Definitely the best in NA. Chauster wasn't as good as Madlife back then and he certainly isn't as good as Madlife now though. This is their first day of scrims I believe. Give him some time and a few weeks of LCS before judging him. But yeah, he looked bad, I don't think NA supports of today are the much better than Chauster was in his prime personally (although patoy Zyra and Daydreamin Blitz are both sick as hell). They also played in Korea shortly, and from what I recall of interviews from that time, they were beating Korean bot lanes(at that time). So, they definitely were on the right track to be a top bot lane, then they switched stuff around because they don't know what future means. Yeah, they usually won bot lane but every other lane lost and they'd get camped every game so it wasn't like Double would get any real advantage over the enemy ADC. Also Madlife for example had to play with locodoco and then Woong who were both fairly average (I'm sorry I love you loco) and the #1 ADC in Korea at the time was CptJack who is not all that great to be honest. They were definitely up there. Maybe even top 3 bot lane instead of top 5. But that's all irrelevant now. It'd be like if CLG got Hotshot back to top lane, saintvicious back to jungle, and jiji back in mid lane then boasted that they were once #1 in the world with that team. I'm sure people would get pumped to see that again but that doesn't mean it'd be good. edit: I'm not trying to sound like such a downer. I'm hopeful about chauster as a support. I just think it's dumb that Double keeps bringing up how good they used to be. I will say that if Chauster never left support for jungle I think CLG would've looked completely different over the course of the past eight months. I don't think they would've gone to relegations for example. Wasn't woong considered one of the top ADC by other Korean players? I thought I remember someone coming here and saying that. It depends on your time frame, Locodoco, Cpt Jack, and SBS all were elite AD carries once, and out of the three Cpt Jack definately received the most amount of praise from the media due to his success with Azubu Blaze, whilst the likes of SBS were rated highly by North American teams due to his good performances against them during scrims. As for Woong, his case is really peculiar because his assessment as a player was much higher in the top lane position, but after his position-switch, he gradually improved over time, molding his own style of play, such as his experimentation with Miss Fortune before she became in vogue. Towards the end of his career, he was recognized as a legitimate AD carry, although outclassed by the likes of PraY. I never appreciated Woong much as an AD carry, but people ragged on about his lack of talent way overboard, he had his share of good games too. People just like to generalize things too much.
The whole "screen looking" fiasco didn't do much to help his image.
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United States37500 Posts
Loco and SBS?
There was an triumvirate at that time of Jack, Woong, and PraY imo.
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For some reason I can't seem to remember LOL players as well as I did with BW pros. I meant back in 2005-2010 I basically can name everyone on every Kespa proleague teams. Now I can only regconize some very good players like Godlife, Shy, Ambition etc...I am getting old faster than I though..QQ!
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On May 31 2013 13:42 NeoIllusions wrote:
Loco and SBS?
There was an triumvirate at that time of Jack, Woong, and PraY imo.
It really depends on the time frame you are referring to. Cpt Jack, Woong, PraY all peaked at different times in my opinion. Cpt Jack, Locodoco, and SBS were the original triumvirate, then PraY joined into the fray by personally dismantling the highest rated out of the three. Woong was not rated highly at the time of his switch, but I think he made a legitimate case as one of the better AD carries in Korea by the end of the year.
It really does depend on the individual, but I'd say the following list might be a fairly loose representation of the general consensus on the topic of top AD carries in Korea.
Azubu Spring Season: Cpt Jack, SBS, Locodoco
Azubu Summer Season: PraY, Cpt Jack, SBS
Olympus Winter Season: PraY, Score, Woong
Olympus Spring Season: Imp, PraY, Score
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United States47024 Posts
On May 31 2013 13:42 NeoIllusions wrote:
Loco and SBS?
There was an triumvirate at that time of Jack, Woong, and PraY imo.
Jack/Woong/Pray was later, remember Woong only switched to playing AD after Loco left Frost.
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On May 31 2013 13:37 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 13:33 Letmelose wrote:On May 31 2013 12:53 RagequitBM wrote:On May 31 2013 10:24 overt wrote:On May 31 2013 10:20 ketchup wrote:On May 31 2013 10:07 overt wrote:On May 31 2013 09:38 Spaiku wrote:
I got into LoL at the end of season 2 so i'm not familiar with Chauster as a support. I've only seen him as a jungler with 50 cs by 40 minutes into the game sitting on top of Doublelift.
Were they really the best bot lane in the world? Why did he stop playing support? Does he have to potencial to be a great support again? His mechanics look really bad -_-, at least Aphro was good at that.
I may be wrong (don't know much about Chauster/Dlift bot in the past) but to me it seems like they will be decent in NA like Aphro/Dlift was and they will get destroyed in Worlds. They were probably top 5 bot lane in the world. Definitely the best in NA. Chauster wasn't as good as Madlife back then and he certainly isn't as good as Madlife now though. This is their first day of scrims I believe. Give him some time and a few weeks of LCS before judging him. But yeah, he looked bad, I don't think NA supports of today are the much better than Chauster was in his prime personally (although patoy Zyra and Daydreamin Blitz are both sick as hell). They also played in Korea shortly, and from what I recall of interviews from that time, they were beating Korean bot lanes(at that time). So, they definitely were on the right track to be a top bot lane, then they switched stuff around because they don't know what future means. Yeah, they usually won bot lane but every other lane lost and they'd get camped every game so it wasn't like Double would get any real advantage over the enemy ADC. Also Madlife for example had to play with locodoco and then Woong who were both fairly average (I'm sorry I love you loco) and the #1 ADC in Korea at the time was CptJack who is not all that great to be honest. They were definitely up there. Maybe even top 3 bot lane instead of top 5. But that's all irrelevant now. It'd be like if CLG got Hotshot back to top lane, saintvicious back to jungle, and jiji back in mid lane then boasted that they were once #1 in the world with that team. I'm sure people would get pumped to see that again but that doesn't mean it'd be good. edit: I'm not trying to sound like such a downer. I'm hopeful about chauster as a support. I just think it's dumb that Double keeps bringing up how good they used to be. I will say that if Chauster never left support for jungle I think CLG would've looked completely different over the course of the past eight months. I don't think they would've gone to relegations for example. Wasn't woong considered one of the top ADC by other Korean players? I thought I remember someone coming here and saying that. It depends on your time frame, Locodoco, Cpt Jack, and SBS all were elite AD carries once, and out of the three Cpt Jack definately received the most amount of praise from the media due to his success with Azubu Blaze, whilst the likes of SBS were rated highly by North American teams due to his good performances against them during scrims. As for Woong, his case is really peculiar because his assessment as a player was much higher in the top lane position, but after his position-switch, he gradually improved over time, molding his own style of play, such as his experimentation with Miss Fortune before she became in vogue. Towards the end of his career, he was recognized as a legitimate AD carry, although outclassed by the likes of PraY. I never appreciated Woong much as an AD carry, but people ragged on about his lack of talent way overboard, he had his share of good games too. People just like to generalize things too much. The whole "screen looking" fiasco didn't do much to help his image.
You're opening up a can of worms here. Woong had such a dark past even before his infamy in the Western world for cheating against the home favourites Team Solo Mid, that discussing his moral integrity and likability as a person will make his assessment as a player next to impossible.
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United States23745 Posts
On May 31 2013 13:55 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 13:42 NeoIllusions wrote:
Loco and SBS?
There was an triumvirate at that time of Jack, Woong, and PraY imo. It really depends on the time frame you are referring to. Cpt Jack, Woong, PraY all peaked at different times in my opinion. Cpt Jack, Locodoco, and SBS were the original triumvirate, then PraY joined into the fray by personally dismantling the highest rated out of the three. Woong was not rated highly at the time of his switch, but I think he made a legitimate case as one of the better AD carries in Korea by the end of the year. It really does depend on the individual, but I'd say the following list might be a fairly loose representation of the general consensus on the topic of top AD carries in Korea. Azubu Spring Season: Cpt Jack, SBS, Locodoco Azubu Summer Season: PraY, Cpt Jack, SBS Olympus Winter Season: PraY, Score, Woong Olympus Spring Season: Imp, PraY, Score
Imp so good, I've really enjoyed watching him play this season.
On May 31 2013 13:59 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 13:37 onlywonderboy wrote:On May 31 2013 13:33 Letmelose wrote:On May 31 2013 12:53 RagequitBM wrote:On May 31 2013 10:24 overt wrote:On May 31 2013 10:20 ketchup wrote:On May 31 2013 10:07 overt wrote:On May 31 2013 09:38 Spaiku wrote:
I got into LoL at the end of season 2 so i'm not familiar with Chauster as a support. I've only seen him as a jungler with 50 cs by 40 minutes into the game sitting on top of Doublelift.
Were they really the best bot lane in the world? Why did he stop playing support? Does he have to potencial to be a great support again? His mechanics look really bad -_-, at least Aphro was good at that.
I may be wrong (don't know much about Chauster/Dlift bot in the past) but to me it seems like they will be decent in NA like Aphro/Dlift was and they will get destroyed in Worlds. They were probably top 5 bot lane in the world. Definitely the best in NA. Chauster wasn't as good as Madlife back then and he certainly isn't as good as Madlife now though. This is their first day of scrims I believe. Give him some time and a few weeks of LCS before judging him. But yeah, he looked bad, I don't think NA supports of today are the much better than Chauster was in his prime personally (although patoy Zyra and Daydreamin Blitz are both sick as hell). They also played in Korea shortly, and from what I recall of interviews from that time, they were beating Korean bot lanes(at that time). So, they definitely were on the right track to be a top bot lane, then they switched stuff around because they don't know what future means. Yeah, they usually won bot lane but every other lane lost and they'd get camped every game so it wasn't like Double would get any real advantage over the enemy ADC. Also Madlife for example had to play with locodoco and then Woong who were both fairly average (I'm sorry I love you loco) and the #1 ADC in Korea at the time was CptJack who is not all that great to be honest. They were definitely up there. Maybe even top 3 bot lane instead of top 5. But that's all irrelevant now. It'd be like if CLG got Hotshot back to top lane, saintvicious back to jungle, and jiji back in mid lane then boasted that they were once #1 in the world with that team. I'm sure people would get pumped to see that again but that doesn't mean it'd be good. edit: I'm not trying to sound like such a downer. I'm hopeful about chauster as a support. I just think it's dumb that Double keeps bringing up how good they used to be. I will say that if Chauster never left support for jungle I think CLG would've looked completely different over the course of the past eight months. I don't think they would've gone to relegations for example. Wasn't woong considered one of the top ADC by other Korean players? I thought I remember someone coming here and saying that. It depends on your time frame, Locodoco, Cpt Jack, and SBS all were elite AD carries once, and out of the three Cpt Jack definately received the most amount of praise from the media due to his success with Azubu Blaze, whilst the likes of SBS were rated highly by North American teams due to his good performances against them during scrims. As for Woong, his case is really peculiar because his assessment as a player was much higher in the top lane position, but after his position-switch, he gradually improved over time, molding his own style of play, such as his experimentation with Miss Fortune before she became in vogue. Towards the end of his career, he was recognized as a legitimate AD carry, although outclassed by the likes of PraY. I never appreciated Woong much as an AD carry, but people ragged on about his lack of talent way overboard, he had his share of good games too. People just like to generalize things too much. The whole "screen looking" fiasco didn't do much to help his image. You're opening up a can of worms here. Woong had such a dark past even before his infamy in the Western world for cheating against the home favourites Team Solo Mid, that discussing his moral integrity and likability as a person will make his assessment as a player next to impossible.
Oh yeah, I just meant the anti-Woong sentiment transcended just his play style. But clearly you are already familiar with this. The TSM thing is just what awarded him the negative imagine from the Western fanbase.
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So anyone able to explain why Wit's End has gone into a big decline? I used to see it so often but now I haven't seen it lately. Did BotRK push it out of favor?
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On May 31 2013 14:09 Brambled wrote:
So anyone able to explain why Wit's End has gone into a big decline? I used to see it so often but now I haven't seen it lately. Did BotRK push it out of favor?
I can't think of too many non-ADCs who really like attack speed that are popular in the meta right now. It's all about quick burst right now and you don't want attack speed for that.
Not to mention the only champs that I can think of that do actually like attack speed that we see currently are Kayle and Diana. Both of them would prefer Nashor's over Wit's. But I think next patch Wit's is supposed to be buffed so maybe then people will buy it more/AS centric champions will buy it again.
If you were to play like Irelia or something it might be good still. Oh, the other problem is that some junglers would first buy it but now you have the Spirit Stone items so getting Wit's would delay your Aegis.
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Dunno, i think wits is a good 3rd item against double-AP comps for a jungler (who relies on AS, like xin / udyr) gives them that dps and survivability, mixture of the both
(So spirit, aegis, wits)
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
I definitely wouldn't say that Xin relies on AS, given he has 40% attack speed increase from his skills and almost nothing that scales with attack speed.
The problem is that it's cost inefficient ever since the nerf, if you have been seeing it some time after the nerf it's only because people were too lazy to change their item builds.
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Meteos (jungler for Cloud 9) is streaming right now. He's actually answering a lot of the questions. Dunno how he dies so little yet is so impactful on the game, it's gonna be scary for the teams in LCS.
Link for the lazy - http://www.twitch.tv/meteos
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On May 31 2013 14:09 Brambled wrote:
So anyone able to explain why Wit's End has gone into a big decline? I used to see it so often but now I haven't seen it lately. Did BotRK push it out of favor?
BotRK+Bulwark > Wit's End with other item combo.
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If you're buying only one dps item on a bruiser, you're just better off getting a botrk rather then wits end.
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oh shit, huge roster changes in Korea. "KT Rolster A's new roster of MaKNooN, Zero, Lila, Climax, and Shakbari announced. Kakao goes to KTB" from Monte's twitter.
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Baa?21243 Posts
On May 31 2013 14:28 Mondeezy wrote:Meteos (jungler for Cloud 9) is streaming right now. He's actually answering a lot of the questions. Dunno how he dies so little yet is so impactful on the game, it's gonna be scary for the teams in LCS. Link for the lazy - http://www.twitch.tv/meteos
solo q is like...not at all reflective of anything in tournament play
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On May 31 2013 14:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 14:28 Mondeezy wrote:Meteos (jungler for Cloud 9) is streaming right now. He's actually answering a lot of the questions. Dunno how he dies so little yet is so impactful on the game, it's gonna be scary for the teams in LCS. Link for the lazy - http://www.twitch.tv/meteos solo q is like...not at all reflective of anything in tournament play
He played like a monster in the LCS Qualifiers as well..
Edit: Wows Maknoon to KTA? Niiiice.
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Basically, the MR on Wit's End isn't worth losing out on BotRK's sustain, active, and scaling. There also aren't that many junglers/bruisers who like Attack Speed but don't also like AD/Life Steal.
On May 31 2013 14:42 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 14:28 Mondeezy wrote:Meteos (jungler for Cloud 9) is streaming right now. He's actually answering a lot of the questions. Dunno how he dies so little yet is so impactful on the game, it's gonna be scary for the teams in LCS. Link for the lazy - http://www.twitch.tv/meteos solo q is like...not at all reflective of anything in tournament play
I like watching junglers in solo queue sometimes. It's not the same as tournament play, but you basically never get to clearly watch a jungler's decision making process/point of attention because the cameras only watch junglers when they're ganking or taking buffs.
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On May 31 2013 14:25 Scip wrote:
I definitely wouldn't say that Xin relies on AS, given he has 40% attack speed increase from his skills and almost nothing that scales with attack speed.
The problem is that it's cost inefficient ever since the nerf, if you have been seeing it some time after the nerf it's only because people were too lazy to change their item builds.
Wits is most definitely not cost inefficient after nerf, you pay like 350 gold for the magic damage onhit when it is completely unstacked, nothing for it when stacked. 42 damage per hit is a fuckton, if you were buying that in ad it would cost 1500 gold and the whole wits is 2200.
Wits has a quite large midgame window where it will give you crushing damage for super low cost. The problem is that it has a shitty buildup which negates its earlier power and BOTRK fills its niche a bit later and ends up just straight up better.
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On May 31 2013 14:52 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2013 14:25 Scip wrote:
I definitely wouldn't say that Xin relies on AS, given he has 40% attack speed increase from his skills and almost nothing that scales with attack speed.
The problem is that it's cost inefficient ever since the nerf, if you have been seeing it some time after the nerf it's only because people were too lazy to change their item builds. Wits is most definitely not cost inefficient after nerf, you pay like 350 gold for the magic damage onhit when it is completely unstacked, nothing for it when stacked. 42 damage per hit is a fuckton, if you were buying that in ad it would cost 1500 gold. Wits has a quite large midgame window where it will give you crushing damage for super low cost. The problem is that it has a shitty buildup which negates its earlier power and BOTRK fills its niche a bit later and ends up just straight up better.
It also has to do with slot efficiency and item combo.
If you really need the MR, bulwark is almost infinitely a better choice, that in combo with BotRK has a better mesh of damage + defense than wit end with another item.
But with the new witsend changes, it'll be very strong.
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EPT
