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I don't see Quinns building AP. 0.5 AP ratio on one ability is not enough to condone even hybrid items for damage. In contrast Ezreals abilities total a 2.65 AP ratio and you barely build any AP on him.
It would put a little damage on her Q late game if/when she starts buying blue elixirs, and situationally give it a little damage if paired with Sona or Lulu or if somebody grabbed a WotA, but that's all I'm seeing. I don't even see Triforce being good on her, unless Harrier makes Sheen proc (I doubt it)
I'm convinced at this point that Quinn is not an AD Carry at all, she's an AD version of Twisted Fate, and should be played like that. You put her mid lane and have her gank somebody on every ult cooldown, and win other peoples lanes for them to make up for a suboptimal late game.
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+ Show Spoiler +DOUBLELIFT IS SO GOOD HE NEEDS 3 SUPPORTS JUST TO HANDLE HIS ADC PROWESS
IF HOTSHOT PLAYS KARTHUS AGAIN THEY'LL NEED ALL THE SUPPORT THEY CAN GET
JUST MAKING USE OF THAT PASSIVE
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On April 11 2013 22:56 Alaric wrote:
Sivir also had an AP ratio randomly slapped to her Q at some point (right after her remake, amongst several nerfs).
Sivir has had an AP ratio on her Q since the beta. It wasn't added during the remake.
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Just had a Ryze and Malphite take TP in my last game. And use it cleverly. That's just... woah. All the plays. Draven drew a lot of attention (wasn't farming well but he played incredibly aggro despite being up with Sona against Thresh+MF) but apart from one occurrence, every time they forced him back or killed him there was a TP to net us a 1-2 kill advantage (Malph homeguard TP in their lane bush ult under tower still super scary when we dropped them to 200 HP). o_o
That's such a gamechanger.
(Also reminded me of how much I tunnelvision, unless they TP on screen I miss it everytime. >> )
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TF sure is incredible. Countergank everything, waveclear like a Lux without mana problems, sustained DPS in Teamfights from safety and able to burst people really hard in melee, wonderful surprise flash-combo game that's safe from counterattacks and doesn't require spending ult, perfect vision for teamfights, free gold(at 30min assuming 800cs total it's 1.6k which is significant) ...
Really makes you wonder why he's never played here in Silver <.< And how on earth every single TF fails hard when he seldomly does get played. I think it's just stupid how he can just farm all day and then gank in to ks and catch fleeing opponents and get free kills -_-
I really should have mained TF back when his ult was global, I really was missing out(Or even back when he had a Sven stun...)
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United States15536 Posts
On April 12 2013 01:46 Shikyo wrote:
TF sure is incredible. Countergank everything, waveclear like a Lux without mana problems, sustained DPS in Teamfights from safety and able to burst people really hard in melee, wonderful surprise flash-combo game that's safe from counterattacks and doesn't require spending ult, perfect vision for teamfights, free gold(at 30min assuming 800cs total it's 1.6k which is significant) ...
Really makes you wonder why he's never played here in Silver <.< And how on earth every single TF fails hard when he seldomly does get played. I think it's just stupid how he can just farm all day and then gank in to ks and catch fleeing opponents and get free kills -_-
I really should have mained TF back when his ult was global, I really was missing out(Or even back when he had a Sven stun...)
Don't forget those sick Silver level Misaya-Gates.
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On April 12 2013 01:51 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 01:46 Shikyo wrote:
TF sure is incredible. Countergank everything, waveclear like a Lux without mana problems, sustained DPS in Teamfights from safety and able to burst people really hard in melee, wonderful surprise flash-combo game that's safe from counterattacks and doesn't require spending ult, perfect vision for teamfights, free gold(at 30min assuming 800cs total it's 1.6k which is significant) ...
Really makes you wonder why he's never played here in Silver <.< And how on earth every single TF fails hard when he seldomly does get played. I think it's just stupid how he can just farm all day and then gank in to ks and catch fleeing opponents and get free kills -_-
I really should have mained TF back when his ult was global, I really was missing out(Or even back when he had a Sven stun...) Don't forget those sick Silver level Misaya-Gates.
They don't really even work, usually the team either retreats and lets you die or they focus a taric while the enemy team groups up around you waiting for the zhonya to go away
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United States47024 Posts
On April 12 2013 01:51 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 01:46 Shikyo wrote:
TF sure is incredible. Countergank everything, waveclear like a Lux without mana problems, sustained DPS in Teamfights from safety and able to burst people really hard in melee, wonderful surprise flash-combo game that's safe from counterattacks and doesn't require spending ult, perfect vision for teamfights, free gold(at 30min assuming 800cs total it's 1.6k which is significant) ...
Really makes you wonder why he's never played here in Silver <.< And how on earth every single TF fails hard when he seldomly does get played. I think it's just stupid how he can just farm all day and then gank in to ks and catch fleeing opponents and get free kills -_-
I really should have mained TF back when his ult was global, I really was missing out(Or even back when he had a Sven stun...) Don't forget those sick Silver level Misaya-Gates.
NA players will remember there was once a high Elo TF player named Taerang...
And the "Misaya gate" only even works when they have non-target spells like Pulverize and Hemoplague to fail at casting like they did in the video.
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tf seems weak compared to other mids if he doesn't get good ganks off. he's almost reliant on it.
in mid-late game when the other team is grouping up, he gets much weaker which is why he needs those ganks.
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United States47024 Posts
That's not really true at all. TF's mid-lategame map control is restrictive enough on the enemy team and punishes mistakes hard enough that even if your early-game ganks are deflected, he still has incredible value.
WE vs M5 from IPL5 exemplifies this. Misaya's early game ganks were virtually all deflected, but the value of TF still carried the game through his map control and ability to punish positioning errors.
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On April 12 2013 01:46 Shikyo wrote:
TF sure is incredible. Countergank everything, waveclear like a Lux without mana problems, sustained DPS in Teamfights from safety and able to burst people really hard in melee, wonderful surprise flash-combo game that's safe from counterattacks and doesn't require spending ult, perfect vision for teamfights, free gold(at 30min assuming 800cs total it's 1.6k which is significant) ...
Really makes you wonder why he's never played here in Silver <.< And how on earth every single TF fails hard when he seldomly does get played. I think it's just stupid how he can just farm all day and then gank in to ks and catch fleeing opponents and get free kills -_-
I really should have mained TF back when his ult was global, I really was missing out(Or even back when he had a Sven stun...)
TF ganks are only really strong if the team has good communication (Which normally doesn't happen in Silver)
A week or two ago I was playing TF mid and I wasn't doing so hot, but still managed to win my lane, and I shit you not a guy said, "You know, you really shouldn't play TF as Ap. He's much better AD." He wasn't trying to troll or anything. That was one of the only things he said all game. Gotta love Silver ELO.
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On April 12 2013 01:46 Shikyo wrote:
TF sure is incredible. Countergank everything, waveclear like a Lux without mana problems, sustained DPS in Teamfights from safety and able to burst people really hard in melee, wonderful surprise flash-combo game that's safe from counterattacks and doesn't require spending ult, perfect vision for teamfights, free gold(at 30min assuming 800cs total it's 1.6k which is significant) ...
Really makes you wonder why he's never played here in Silver <.< And how on earth every single TF fails hard when he seldomly does get played. I think it's just stupid how he can just farm all day and then gank in to ks and catch fleeing opponents and get free kills -_-
I really should have mained TF back when his ult was global, I really was missing out(Or even back when he had a Sven stun...)
SIlver TFs die constantly and when they do ult, their team doesn't do anything with it.
Plus lategame if you want to exploit his map control your team needs wards, because he dies in nearly all 1v1s.
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On April 12 2013 01:46 Shikyo wrote:
TF sure is incredible. Countergank everything, waveclear like a Lux without mana problems, sustained DPS in Teamfights from safety and able to burst people really hard in melee, wonderful surprise flash-combo game that's safe from counterattacks and doesn't require spending ult, perfect vision for teamfights, free gold(at 30min assuming 800cs total it's 1.6k which is significant) ...
Really makes you wonder why he's never played here in Silver <.< And how on earth every single TF fails hard when he seldomly does get played. I think it's just stupid how he can just farm all day and then gank in to ks and catch fleeing opponents and get free kills -_-
I really should have mained TF back when his ult was global, I really was missing out(Or even back when he had a Sven stun...)
I can talk to you about the game I just finished, where TF went from 20 cs ahead of Anivia (after an invade that forced her to back) to feeding like mad, including trying to walk up to her and stun her post-6 when she was 5-0.
(Granted, it's "secret" bullshit Anivia, but still.)
TF is easy as pie to play if you just want to chicken out and farm, same as Lux and Teemo, but to make plays he has to use his ult and stuff (granted he could just ride his late game prowess... but that's not the forte of silver players either), but somehow they want to do flashy plays and... we all know how low-level aggressive stuff is hit-or-miss, and how they won't stop even if they get too behind to even try. So yeah. TF not popular because people can't play safe at silver. 
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are we talking about competitive TF or pub TF? i was talking about pub TF. in competitive games i would never think about a hero on their own but how they work in conjunction with their team against the enemy's team, and i wouldn't make a blanket statement like TF needs to get ahead with ganks.
also that ipl5 game was played on elise patch, before S3 changes, heh.
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On April 12 2013 02:10 kainzero wrote:
tf seems weak compared to other mids if he doesn't get good ganks off. he's almost reliant on it.
in mid-late game when the other team is grouping up, he gets much weaker which is why he needs those ganks.
Really? His poke is wonderful and a targeted high damage stun is actually quite rare. Sure he doesn't have a real ulti but even so ...
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On April 12 2013 02:59 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 02:10 kainzero wrote:
tf seems weak compared to other mids if he doesn't get good ganks off. he's almost reliant on it.
in mid-late game when the other team is grouping up, he gets much weaker which is why he needs those ganks. Really? His poke is wonderful and a targeted high damage stun is actually quite rare. Sure he doesn't have a real ulti but even so ...
He's weak because all he does is die People dont siege in silver, or poke. Its all about how many Amumu/Malphite ults you can stack with Bullet time and a dead karthus with singed running around flipping people.
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United States47024 Posts
On April 12 2013 02:44 kainzero wrote:
are we talking about competitive TF or pub TF? i was talking about pub TF. in competitive games i would never think about a hero on their own but how they work in conjunction with their team against the enemy's team, and i wouldn't make a blanket statement like TF needs to get ahead with ganks.
also that ipl5 game was played on elise patch, before S3 changes, heh.
I don't understand how a skill that preys on the enemy's positioning errors super hard is a *worse* pub skill than in competitive.
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On April 12 2013 03:20 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 02:59 Shikyo wrote:On April 12 2013 02:10 kainzero wrote:
tf seems weak compared to other mids if he doesn't get good ganks off. he's almost reliant on it.
in mid-late game when the other team is grouping up, he gets much weaker which is why he needs those ganks. Really? His poke is wonderful and a targeted high damage stun is actually quite rare. Sure he doesn't have a real ulti but even so ... He's weak because all he does is die People dont siege in silver, or poke. Its all about how many Amumu/Malphite ults you can stack with Bullet time and a dead karthus with singed running around flipping people.
Well the enemy team sure seemed clueless when I just instacleared like 10 waves in a row when they were trying to push <.<
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On April 12 2013 03:31 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:20 cLutZ wrote:On April 12 2013 02:59 Shikyo wrote:On April 12 2013 02:10 kainzero wrote:
tf seems weak compared to other mids if he doesn't get good ganks off. he's almost reliant on it.
in mid-late game when the other team is grouping up, he gets much weaker which is why he needs those ganks. Really? His poke is wonderful and a targeted high damage stun is actually quite rare. Sure he doesn't have a real ulti but even so ... He's weak because all he does is die People dont siege in silver, or poke. Its all about how many Amumu/Malphite ults you can stack with Bullet time and a dead karthus with singed running around flipping people. Well the enemy team sure seemed clueless when I just instacleared like 10 waves in a row when they were trying to push <.<
Your ability to exploit his strengths doesn't mean next game your team won't get aced at a dragonfight (most TFs I know won't even ult to get vision which is like his #1 teamfighting strength!).
I think his fun levels also scale directly with your teammates' skill.
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EPT
