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On January 17 2013 04:58 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 04:24 Slusher wrote:On January 17 2013 04:19 Berailfor wrote:
I don't really like this patch. They didn't address some things that were larger issues like Khazix W. And they nerf champions based on their pub stomping capabilities, not their viability in pro matches (ie talon). And they make changes that are just straight odd. Riot, "I just think that Ezreals attack speed is a litttllee bit too fast. Let's nerf it by the most insignificant amount ever!"
I guess I'll just be happy about the turret priority. the nerf to Khazix passive is actually a decent nerf to w, non passive charged W really isn't as bad as people think. and the Bruiser mid padigrim shift has far more to do with the new arp calculations and armor gold value than BC. It actually has very little to do with the new calculations/armor values, and everything to do with community perceptions. For almost the entire laning phase the changes actually favor the AP mid in Season 3: Season 2:Total Opponent Armor w/ Chain Vest @9: 45 (Chain Vest) + 45 (Base Armor) + 6 (Masteries) + 12.7 (Runes) = 108.7 Armor Armor Penetration with Brutalizer, Runes, and Masteries: 1.67*9 + 3.33*3 + 15 + 6 = 52 (and 10% Penetration) Total Effective Armor: (108.7 - 52) * .9 = 51 Armor Season 3:Total Opponent Armor w/ Chain Vest @9: 40 (Chain Vest) + 45 (Base Armor) + 5 (Masteries) + 12.7 (Runes) = 102.7 Armor Armor Penetration with Brutalizer, Runes, and Masteries: 1.28*9 + 2.56*3 + 10 + 5 = 34.2 (and 8% Penetration) Total Effective Armor: (102.7 - 34.2) * .9 = 63 Armor The sudden surge of AD assassins mid has everything to do with Black Cleaver breaking down the conventions and assumptions of the community. The realization that AD assassins could crush many of the popular APs reached critical mass because of Black Cleaver, and the idea has persisted past the nerfs not because of any mechanical changes between the seasons but because it's been true all along.
what? ad mid won lane in s2 also, it no longer hurts your team comp as bad after the lane phase ends to be all physical. if you were only taking lane into consideration ad mid would have been played at s2 championships.
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l0l turned on jiji stream and I just hear faint meowing in the background h4h4h4.
On the Riot balancing thing, I think they're doing okay, but I'd like a bit less of a unity soup. Not every champion needs an escape, and as Riot themselves have pointed out, several champions have the problem of being a tanky support jungler carry assassin without really any easily exploitable weaknesses.
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Q: When will the new Ranked League become effective?
A: As with most of our releases, we aren't announcing a specific date because there are a number of factors that can affect the launch. That being said, we're currently aiming to launch on PBE within a matter of days.
Q: Will (division/tier promotion series) be automatic, or I'll have to "click a button" to start it?
A: Automatic
Q: What systems do you have in place to stop abuse
A: There's a lot of complicated logic on the back end that prevents abusing the system like this. If you intentionally try to tank your matchmaking rating, you will gain league points much much slower than otherwise. It will always be more effective to play legitimately.
Q: Will season 3 rewards be based on top or current standings?
A: Season 3 rewards will be based on your current standing in the league system.
Q: Will you lose rank if you don't play for a set amount of time?
A: Yes, you will lose rank if you don't play for a month or more.
Q: I've read in your posts that matchmaking will be nearly the same. What does the nearly mean here?
A: We are continually improving our matchmaking algorithms and our rating systems to the point where they have diverged quite a bit from traditional Elo. For example, we recently started experimenting with using # of wins as an input to matchmaking, and we're going to be debuting a new subsystem that we call "rating splashing" soon. More details on that later. 
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United States23745 Posts
On January 17 2013 05:01 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 04:55 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 17 2013 04:53 kongoline wrote:On January 17 2013 04:48 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 17 2013 04:44 kongoline wrote:On January 17 2013 04:38 kainzero wrote:On January 17 2013 04:01 TheYango wrote:On January 17 2013 04:00 kainzero wrote:
speaking of the ezreal nerf, was the graves AS nerf really that bad? i hardly ever see him being played nowadays. A change of 0.1 BAT is quite significant, and it's effect is heavily understated. The effect of a BAT change is magnified through every single source of attack speed you get, because all attack speed is calculated as % of base. that's great in theory... but i don't want to talk about theory. do people feel that he's weak now? i mean, he still has the best base stats of any AD carry, he's still tanky as hell, smokescreen is still one of the best abilities, he has an escape ability that doubles as a steroid... and yet i hardly see him played anymore. wat? graves is 2nd most popular ad after ezreal and 5th champion overall, its all we see nowadays in tournaments are ezreals and graves every game, corki is the one who got phased out with the nerfes and new items, every pro said corki is in a bad spot right now Haven't seen a lot of Graves in NA recently, unless people are doing Lulu/Graves to push a lane hard. I feel like I've seen way more Cait/Vayne/Twitch than Graves. http://www.lolking.net/champions/graves®ion=na&league=gold#statisticsgraves is played >25% of games across all elo in NA I was talking about pro play, didn't realize we were talking about soloq http://imgur.com/a/L7M9L#0from riots qualifier, dont have statistics from ogn but im i've seen plenty of graves there too, 0 corkis though
Fair enough, I guess has made a decent resurgence, didn't realize he was picked that often during the qualifiers.
Edit: Like at IPL 5 he was only picked like twice three times and had a 1-1 0% win rate, so this resurgence is kinda recent.
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People should be pretty excited about # of (ranked) wins being a factor in matchmaking, as there have been plenty of threads on the Riot forums suggesting new ranked players start at lower than 1200 Elo. Naturally, that would do nothing but lower the overall average Elo and affect gameplay for 800 or 1000 Elo players the way it affects 1200 Elo players now.
The real complaint is that people "stuck" at 1200 have to play with new ranked players, and this is an actual fix to that.
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On January 17 2013 04:55 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 04:53 kongoline wrote:On January 17 2013 04:48 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 17 2013 04:44 kongoline wrote:On January 17 2013 04:38 kainzero wrote:On January 17 2013 04:01 TheYango wrote:On January 17 2013 04:00 kainzero wrote:
speaking of the ezreal nerf, was the graves AS nerf really that bad? i hardly ever see him being played nowadays. A change of 0.1 BAT is quite significant, and it's effect is heavily understated. The effect of a BAT change is magnified through every single source of attack speed you get, because all attack speed is calculated as % of base. that's great in theory... but i don't want to talk about theory. do people feel that he's weak now? i mean, he still has the best base stats of any AD carry, he's still tanky as hell, smokescreen is still one of the best abilities, he has an escape ability that doubles as a steroid... and yet i hardly see him played anymore. wat? graves is 2nd most popular ad after ezreal and 5th champion overall, its all we see nowadays in tournaments are ezreals and graves every game, corki is the one who got phased out with the nerfes and new items, every pro said corki is in a bad spot right now Haven't seen a lot of Graves in NA recently, unless people are doing Lulu/Graves to push a lane hard. I feel like I've seen way more Cait/Vayne/Twitch than Graves. http://www.lolking.net/champions/graves®ion=na&league=gold#statisticsgraves is played >25% of games across all elo in NA I was talking about pro play, didn't realize we were talking about soloq
actually personally speaking i mostly see cait/ez/mf/vayne in solo q.
my go-to pick for AD is sivir just because spellshielding makes me feel giddy. and when i don't feel like playing i just split push all day, lol.
On January 17 2013 04:45 Slusher wrote:
you do realize that the escape doubling as a steroid isn't actually a positive. it forces a choice unlike Ezreal E which does bad damage as ad, thus you don't sacrifice a steroid the character is balanced around to position well.
it could be a positive if you get dived on and you need to kite. and in some cases it's not an escape but a chase ability.
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so they're basically going w/ the SC2 ladder system
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On January 17 2013 05:21 jalstar wrote:
People should be pretty excited about # of (ranked) wins being a factor in matchmaking, as there have been plenty of threads on the Riot forums suggesting new ranked players start at lower than 1200 Elo. Naturally, that would do nothing but lower the overall average Elo and affect gameplay for 800 or 1000 Elo players the way it affects 1200 Elo players now.
The real complaint is that people "stuck" at 1200 have to play with new ranked players, and this is an actual fix to that.
Hm. That's actually a significant plus that I hadn't acknowledged before.
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As far as I know, the SC2 ladder system was one of the best parts of SC2, and worked really well.
Ha, look at me, I talk about SC2 in past tense. I'm mean.
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On January 17 2013 05:08 Slusher wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 04:58 Seuss wrote:On January 17 2013 04:24 Slusher wrote:On January 17 2013 04:19 Berailfor wrote:
I don't really like this patch. They didn't address some things that were larger issues like Khazix W. And they nerf champions based on their pub stomping capabilities, not their viability in pro matches (ie talon). And they make changes that are just straight odd. Riot, "I just think that Ezreals attack speed is a litttllee bit too fast. Let's nerf it by the most insignificant amount ever!"
I guess I'll just be happy about the turret priority. the nerf to Khazix passive is actually a decent nerf to w, non passive charged W really isn't as bad as people think. and the Bruiser mid padigrim shift has far more to do with the new arp calculations and armor gold value than BC. It actually has very little to do with the new calculations/armor values, and everything to do with community perceptions. For almost the entire laning phase the changes actually favor the AP mid in Season 3: Season 2:Total Opponent Armor w/ Chain Vest @9: 45 (Chain Vest) + 45 (Base Armor) + 6 (Masteries) + 12.7 (Runes) = 108.7 Armor Armor Penetration with Brutalizer, Runes, and Masteries: 1.67*9 + 3.33*3 + 15 + 6 = 52 (and 10% Penetration) Total Effective Armor: (108.7 - 52) * .9 = 51 Armor Season 3:Total Opponent Armor w/ Chain Vest @9: 40 (Chain Vest) + 45 (Base Armor) + 5 (Masteries) + 12.7 (Runes) = 102.7 Armor Armor Penetration with Brutalizer, Runes, and Masteries: 1.28*9 + 2.56*3 + 10 + 5 = 34.2 (and 8% Penetration) Total Effective Armor: (102.7 - 34.2) * .9 = 63 Armor The sudden surge of AD assassins mid has everything to do with Black Cleaver breaking down the conventions and assumptions of the community. The realization that AD assassins could crush many of the popular APs reached critical mass because of Black Cleaver, and the idea has persisted past the nerfs not because of any mechanical changes between the seasons but because it's been true all along. what? ad mid won lane in s2 also, it no longer hurts your team comp as bad after the lane phase ends to be all physical. if you were only taking lane into consideration ad mid would have been played at s2 championships.
AD mid did win lanes in S2 as well, but that notion did not make much headway in the community at the time. Despite there being many champions with significant magic damage who could play top lane (Singed, Rumble, Shen) or jungle (Mundo, Amumu, Maokai), AD mids were rarely used.
The armor calculations and value changes certainly make all AD compositions more viable, but AD assassins were viable all along. It simply took Season 3's Black Cleaver to penetrate the inflexible community mindset and make this common knowledge.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
factoring in number of wins seems like a very good idea, as long as the effect disappears after, say, 30 or 50 wins or so. Just imagine the unreal MMR that Enten would have with his 1500+ ranked wins, that'd be just ridiculous.
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I like the Udyr buff, but doesn't solve the problem that he has. You don't do anything late game except slap people in the face.
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On January 17 2013 05:18 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 05:01 kongoline wrote:On January 17 2013 04:55 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 17 2013 04:53 kongoline wrote:On January 17 2013 04:48 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 17 2013 04:44 kongoline wrote:On January 17 2013 04:38 kainzero wrote:On January 17 2013 04:01 TheYango wrote:On January 17 2013 04:00 kainzero wrote:
speaking of the ezreal nerf, was the graves AS nerf really that bad? i hardly ever see him being played nowadays. A change of 0.1 BAT is quite significant, and it's effect is heavily understated. The effect of a BAT change is magnified through every single source of attack speed you get, because all attack speed is calculated as % of base. that's great in theory... but i don't want to talk about theory. do people feel that he's weak now? i mean, he still has the best base stats of any AD carry, he's still tanky as hell, smokescreen is still one of the best abilities, he has an escape ability that doubles as a steroid... and yet i hardly see him played anymore. wat? graves is 2nd most popular ad after ezreal and 5th champion overall, its all we see nowadays in tournaments are ezreals and graves every game, corki is the one who got phased out with the nerfes and new items, every pro said corki is in a bad spot right now Haven't seen a lot of Graves in NA recently, unless people are doing Lulu/Graves to push a lane hard. I feel like I've seen way more Cait/Vayne/Twitch than Graves. http://www.lolking.net/champions/graves®ion=na&league=gold#statisticsgraves is played >25% of games across all elo in NA I was talking about pro play, didn't realize we were talking about soloq http://imgur.com/a/L7M9L#0from riots qualifier, dont have statistics from ogn but im i've seen plenty of graves there too, 0 corkis though Fair enough, I guess has made a decent resurgence, didn't realize he was picked that often during the qualifiers. Edit: Like at IPL 5 he was only picked like twice three times and had a 1-1 0% win rate, so this resurgence is kinda recent.
http://imgur.com/a/L7M9L#0
WTF @ 65% blue 35% purple winrate? why? how?
edit: quoted wrong post
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On January 17 2013 05:39 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 05:08 Slusher wrote:On January 17 2013 04:58 Seuss wrote:On January 17 2013 04:24 Slusher wrote:On January 17 2013 04:19 Berailfor wrote:
I don't really like this patch. They didn't address some things that were larger issues like Khazix W. And they nerf champions based on their pub stomping capabilities, not their viability in pro matches (ie talon). And they make changes that are just straight odd. Riot, "I just think that Ezreals attack speed is a litttllee bit too fast. Let's nerf it by the most insignificant amount ever!"
I guess I'll just be happy about the turret priority. the nerf to Khazix passive is actually a decent nerf to w, non passive charged W really isn't as bad as people think. and the Bruiser mid padigrim shift has far more to do with the new arp calculations and armor gold value than BC. It actually has very little to do with the new calculations/armor values, and everything to do with community perceptions. For almost the entire laning phase the changes actually favor the AP mid in Season 3: Season 2:Total Opponent Armor w/ Chain Vest @9: 45 (Chain Vest) + 45 (Base Armor) + 6 (Masteries) + 12.7 (Runes) = 108.7 Armor Armor Penetration with Brutalizer, Runes, and Masteries: 1.67*9 + 3.33*3 + 15 + 6 = 52 (and 10% Penetration) Total Effective Armor: (108.7 - 52) * .9 = 51 Armor Season 3:Total Opponent Armor w/ Chain Vest @9: 40 (Chain Vest) + 45 (Base Armor) + 5 (Masteries) + 12.7 (Runes) = 102.7 Armor Armor Penetration with Brutalizer, Runes, and Masteries: 1.28*9 + 2.56*3 + 10 + 5 = 34.2 (and 8% Penetration) Total Effective Armor: (102.7 - 34.2) * .9 = 63 Armor The sudden surge of AD assassins mid has everything to do with Black Cleaver breaking down the conventions and assumptions of the community. The realization that AD assassins could crush many of the popular APs reached critical mass because of Black Cleaver, and the idea has persisted past the nerfs not because of any mechanical changes between the seasons but because it's been true all along. what? ad mid won lane in s2 also, it no longer hurts your team comp as bad after the lane phase ends to be all physical. if you were only taking lane into consideration ad mid would have been played at s2 championships. AD mid did win lanes in S2 as well, but that notion did not make much headway in the community at the time. Despite there being many champions with significant magic damage who could play top lane (Singed, Rumble, Shen) or jungle (Mundo, Amumu, Maokai), AD mids were rarely used. The armor calculations and value changes certainly make all AD compositions more viable, but AD assassins were viable all along. It simply took Season 3's Black Cleaver to penetrate the inflexible community mindset and make this common knowledge.
I accept your argument but I contend that it is actually better in s3 when taking the entire game into the equation
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I see mostly Cait/Ez/MF too, sometimes a Vayne, but Graves is barely ahead of Varus/Ashe at this point (my last game had a Kog though, hadn't seen one in ages).
It's making me feel a bit awkward when playing AD as I own Ez, Ashe, Graves, Draven, Sivir, Vayne. Draven and Vayne lack reach and have no escape on top of being mechanically demanding so I'm not too enthusiastic about playing them outside of premades. Ezreal I stopped playing with everyone and their sister playing him nowadays as I grew weary of it and didn't want to contribute to having one in every game. Sivir and Ashe are awkward, the former because of her range and the latter because her laning phase is pretty weak, so I can't pick them early if I want to play AD (or I eat a Caitlyn or Leona to the face, respectively). So that leaves me Graves.
Maybe I could buy MF, she looked like the lane aggro could be my style but she has the same problem as Ezreal, too many everywhere. >> Cait is "cheating" because of her range, Tristana is particular too because of her E and I don't like Corki, while an early Varus pick is as risky as Ashe.
People need to switch the popular ADs around so I can get to work on my poor skills. :<
As for the AD mid, it was always pretty fine for the AP champs really, dump your first 700+ into chain vest and some pots, and you're fine. Even more so in s3 with flask to cover your mana expenses. But people are greedy fuckers and didn't want not to buy AP because it's not fun having to try and survive rather than blow people up (well ain't that what most bruisers did anyway?).
The argument for champs that won't start Zhonya (Morgana, Fiddle, Kennen, Vlad would be the only ones really, the others need stuff like mana before) stating that it'll diminish their power during their midgame peak is true, but then again the point of picking Caitlyn in s2 was also to reduce the opposing botlane's power and noone complained about that. There's nothing wrong about having sacrifices to be made. Sure, if your opponent built glass-cannon he'll be able your squishies instead of you, but then you can punish him for it.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 17 2013 05:42 Complete wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 05:18 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 17 2013 05:01 kongoline wrote:On January 17 2013 04:55 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 17 2013 04:53 kongoline wrote:On January 17 2013 04:48 onlywonderboy wrote:On January 17 2013 04:44 kongoline wrote:On January 17 2013 04:38 kainzero wrote:On January 17 2013 04:01 TheYango wrote:On January 17 2013 04:00 kainzero wrote:
speaking of the ezreal nerf, was the graves AS nerf really that bad? i hardly ever see him being played nowadays. A change of 0.1 BAT is quite significant, and it's effect is heavily understated. The effect of a BAT change is magnified through every single source of attack speed you get, because all attack speed is calculated as % of base. that's great in theory... but i don't want to talk about theory. do people feel that he's weak now? i mean, he still has the best base stats of any AD carry, he's still tanky as hell, smokescreen is still one of the best abilities, he has an escape ability that doubles as a steroid... and yet i hardly see him played anymore. wat? graves is 2nd most popular ad after ezreal and 5th champion overall, its all we see nowadays in tournaments are ezreals and graves every game, corki is the one who got phased out with the nerfes and new items, every pro said corki is in a bad spot right now Haven't seen a lot of Graves in NA recently, unless people are doing Lulu/Graves to push a lane hard. I feel like I've seen way more Cait/Vayne/Twitch than Graves. http://www.lolking.net/champions/graves®ion=na&league=gold#statisticsgraves is played >25% of games across all elo in NA I was talking about pro play, didn't realize we were talking about soloq http://imgur.com/a/L7M9L#0from riots qualifier, dont have statistics from ogn but im i've seen plenty of graves there too, 0 corkis though Fair enough, I guess has made a decent resurgence, didn't realize he was picked that often during the qualifiers. Edit: Like at IPL 5 he was only picked like twice three times and had a 1-1 0% win rate, so this resurgence is kinda recent. http://imgur.com/a/L7M9L#0WTF @ 65% blue 35% purple winrate? why? how? edit: quoted wrong post
We discussed this in the last thread.
Blue/purple imbalance has been known for a while now and is supported by data from multiple tournaments.
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Uninstalled League for now just putting this out in GD for dudes in PooPractice to know (and other buddiez). C u soon fknoobs.
dw neo i'll still make TF guide soon(TM). Oh oh any questions on TF (any position any items) ask me right here so I can also talk about it in the guide for future reference. :DDDD
i lub u ruffles
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On January 17 2013 05:40 Cloud9157 wrote:
I like the Udyr buff, but doesn't solve the problem that he has. You don't do anything late game except slap people in the face.
Simple solution:
When Bear Stance is activated Udyr ignores unit collision and movement reducing effects, and maybe increase mana cost at early ranks so that you can't combo Bear stance at early levels to balance.
Can still be stunned/snared/silenced/moved, not slowed. Tadaa, Udyr can catch people and slap them. If this is too strong either remove the ignore unit collision or just have it ignore movement reducing effects partially (as in the slows are weaker, not like tenacity that they last shorter).
Right now Hec (E), Skarner (W), Malph (Q) have better gap closing tools without blinks/jumps which is pretty damn pitiful.
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EPT
