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On December 17 2012 23:27 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 21:09 Sponkz wrote:This is what i run on most supports atm: http://www.finalesfunkeln.com/s3/#XMatkUTqPAM7lrI avoid the cookie and ward on purpose for 3 reasons: 1. The cookie is really bad, and you should be starting flask since it's highly cost-efficient throughout your laning phase, while the cookie disappears. 2. The explorer's ward is HUGE early on if you plan on invading, 1 minute should be more than plenty to see the enemies movement, however since it disappears aswell, spending 1 out of 4 total wards (if you start flask) isn't that big of a deal, especially since most junglers will not force a heavy camping phase on the bot-lane. 3. With the 2 points gone from utility you're able to grab 3/3 in Juggernaut, which provides extra tankiness for lane. Ever since the change to Movement Speed, i've been running HP quints with a fair amount of success. the cookie is not bad. especially if you think hp quints are good lol. cookie gives you about 30g at the start. yes you can get flask but having flask does not make cookie worse or better.
the problem isn't that the biscuit is bad it's that there are better things you can do with that useful point
the only reason i take the biscuit at all are
1) you need it to unlock the explorer ward
2) lifesteal+spell vamp isn't helpful on a support
3) i want to get to 21 in utility
if you don't want to get to that 3% movespeed point there's probably something more helpful in offense or defense for you. there are definitely a good number of games where the lane has been going pretty good and the biscuit is still sitting there at 30:00
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imo 2 mastery points are a really good investment for what is AT LEAST the value of a ward - since you don't need to put down an actual ward against invades, saving yourself a real ward in the end.
So at least, you get 75 gold out of 2 mastery points. Not bad.
then you get a hybrid pot on top of that. For 'free', if you look at it like I do. Not the best thing to ever grace earth, but again, not bad.
Add to that that you might save both of your lives bot if you use the 'extra' ward you saved earlier to spot a gank you otherwise wouldn't.
It's a really good investment if you look beyond just the value of the mastery items itself.
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United States3726 Posts
On December 17 2012 21:54 Evilmonkey. wrote:
It's pretty cool when you discover random champs that have awesome synergy together. Recently my brother and I have found a couple.
Nunu top, gangplank jungle, always slow never not slow, and it makes your ad carry a god late game.
Renekton top and karma mid is pretty good too. Mid game team fights are pretty beastly, just explode shield the gigantic crocodile in the middle of their team lol.
Makes me wonder how many cool drafts and lineups team can pull out that haven't been discovered yet. It's a shame pro teams don't always branch out all that much.
This is... very interesting. Add a Leona support for to make the big plays?
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the explorer ward is garbage
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Um what? The explorer ward is SO good in the first 3 minutes of the game.
I mean yeah if you never have invades or early ganks in your games it's garbage. But then so are all wards.
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so normal wards are 3x as good as garbage?
lol @ "biscuit is trash, get flask". I get flask AND biscuit. You mad?
Sure its not a huge amount, but it's 1 mastery point, competing with say 1% spell vamp or 1.25% XP.
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On December 18 2012 00:28 zulu_nation8 wrote:
the explorer ward is garbage
it's good if you're planning to invade or get invaded, or if you're facing a blitz, which totals up to about 80% of solo queue games
actually I've saved people's asses twice with it by dropping it at 1:00 in river bush as a safety precaution
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I love using ridiculous champion synergies. Swain/Vlad, get RoA/Rylais then double WotA then 2v5 the enemy team
Also Nid top, Ap EZ mid, WW jungle, Kog/NuNu bot. 2.5 attack speed at like 12 minutes. Huehue
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On December 18 2012 00:14 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 21:54 Evilmonkey. wrote:
It's pretty cool when you discover random champs that have awesome synergy together. Recently my brother and I have found a couple.
Nunu top, gangplank jungle, always slow never not slow, and it makes your ad carry a god late game.
Renekton top and karma mid is pretty good too. Mid game team fights are pretty beastly, just explode shield the gigantic crocodile in the middle of their team lol.
Makes me wonder how many cool drafts and lineups team can pull out that haven't been discovered yet. It's a shame pro teams don't always branch out all that much. This is... very interesting. Add a Leona support for to make the big plays?
It's not like nobody knows about these kinds of comps lol. GP/WW/Ori/Nunu/Vayne for example has incredible chase potential, zones extremely well for vayne, and has multiple steroids for her. But we can't expect the proscene to feature every type of gimmick comp because there's simply so many of them and its difficult to draft everyone you want.
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what ganks will a 1min bot ward prevent? If the enemy jungler does blue and goes straight bot through river like an idiot?
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On December 18 2012 00:36 MattBarry wrote:
Also Nid top, Ap EZ mid, WW jungle, Kog/NuNu bot. 2.5 attack speed at like 12 minutes. Huehue
Lol that sounds terrible. You have two soft aoe ccs (both of which are used primarily to zone) and a suppression, don't expect to win any midgame fights or jungle encounters.
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On December 17 2012 23:34 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 23:27 clickrush wrote:On December 17 2012 21:09 Sponkz wrote:This is what i run on most supports atm: http://www.finalesfunkeln.com/s3/#XMatkUTqPAM7lrI avoid the cookie and ward on purpose for 3 reasons: 1. The cookie is really bad, and you should be starting flask since it's highly cost-efficient throughout your laning phase, while the cookie disappears. 2. The explorer's ward is HUGE early on if you plan on invading, 1 minute should be more than plenty to see the enemies movement, however since it disappears aswell, spending 1 out of 4 total wards (if you start flask) isn't that big of a deal, especially since most junglers will not force a heavy camping phase on the bot-lane. 3. With the 2 points gone from utility you're able to grab 3/3 in Juggernaut, which provides extra tankiness for lane. Ever since the change to Movement Speed, i've been running HP quints with a fair amount of success. the cookie is not bad. especially if you think hp quints are good lol. cookie gives you about 30g at the start. yes you can get flask but having flask does not make cookie worse or better. No it doesn't, it just makes it less exclusive as something you want  Also TIL that Sona's Q in rank 5 gives 1235 gold of stats to nearby allies.
Thats because most people dont use BOTH AD and AP, and a lot of people don't even use 1 of them that well, lol
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On December 18 2012 00:36 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 00:14 Crownlol wrote:On December 17 2012 21:54 Evilmonkey. wrote:
It's pretty cool when you discover random champs that have awesome synergy together. Recently my brother and I have found a couple.
Nunu top, gangplank jungle, always slow never not slow, and it makes your ad carry a god late game.
Renekton top and karma mid is pretty good too. Mid game team fights are pretty beastly, just explode shield the gigantic crocodile in the middle of their team lol.
Makes me wonder how many cool drafts and lineups team can pull out that haven't been discovered yet. It's a shame pro teams don't always branch out all that much. This is... very interesting. Add a Leona support for to make the big plays? It's not like nobody knows about these kinds of comps lol. GP/WW/Ori/Nunu/Vayne for example has incredible chase potential, zones extremely well for vayne, and has multiple steroids for her. But we can't expect the proscene to feature every type of gimmick comp because there's simply so many of them and its difficult to draft everyone you want.
or you can ditch ww and gp, get xin and <insert any common top laner here> and have a better comp. which is what happens right now, incidentally.
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On December 18 2012 00:37 zulu_nation8 wrote:
what ganks will a 1min bot ward prevent? If the enemy jungler does blue and goes straight bot through river like an idiot?
Or if you want to see if enemy team does a 1:40 blue/red invade but don't want to use a real ward.
Or if you want to see if an aggressive enemy jungler counterjungles your jungler at red.
Or one of the other thousand possible early game aggressions based on team comps?
Not to mention you can always use it like a normal ward, for an extra minute of vision before having to buy more wards.
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On December 18 2012 00:38 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 00:36 MattBarry wrote:
Also Nid top, Ap EZ mid, WW jungle, Kog/NuNu bot. 2.5 attack speed at like 12 minutes. Huehue Lol that sounds terrible. You have two soft aoe ccs (both of which are used primarily to zone) and a suppression, don't expect to win any midgame fights or jungle encounters.
It works for making people rage in normals. Isn't that the only reason to play the game?
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On December 18 2012 00:37 zulu_nation8 wrote:
what ganks will a 1min bot ward prevent? If the enemy jungler does blue and goes straight bot through river like an idiot?
1: no time limit on placing the ward, can use it for temporary brush control when the opponent has a pink and wastes it on a useless ward lol
2: saves you the early ward which you ONLY use against invades, having a ward at your own blue or red or wraiths is pretty useless in the first few minutes
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there's like one scenario i can imagine the 1min ward being helpful for invades. If you're getting invaded at blue, you ward your own blue. Otherwise if I'm invading enemy blue I tell my support to ward my own blue, and you can't do that with explorer ward.
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On December 18 2012 00:42 greggy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 00:36 seRapH wrote:On December 18 2012 00:14 Crownlol wrote:On December 17 2012 21:54 Evilmonkey. wrote:
It's pretty cool when you discover random champs that have awesome synergy together. Recently my brother and I have found a couple.
Nunu top, gangplank jungle, always slow never not slow, and it makes your ad carry a god late game.
Renekton top and karma mid is pretty good too. Mid game team fights are pretty beastly, just explode shield the gigantic crocodile in the middle of their team lol.
Makes me wonder how many cool drafts and lineups team can pull out that haven't been discovered yet. It's a shame pro teams don't always branch out all that much. This is... very interesting. Add a Leona support for to make the big plays? It's not like nobody knows about these kinds of comps lol. GP/WW/Ori/Nunu/Vayne for example has incredible chase potential, zones extremely well for vayne, and has multiple steroids for her. But we can't expect the proscene to feature every type of gimmick comp because there's simply so many of them and its difficult to draft everyone you want. or you can ditch ww and gp, get xin and <insert any common top laner here> and have a better comp. which is what happens right now, incidentally.
Eh, debatable. You can swap top and bot to help their matchups, and then your only challenge would be to get WW through the early jungle. Someone who actually jungles would know better than I about that, but I was under the impression that s3 seriously benefited him.
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On December 18 2012 00:38 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 00:36 MattBarry wrote:
Also Nid top, Ap EZ mid, WW jungle, Kog/NuNu bot. 2.5 attack speed at like 12 minutes. Huehue Lol that sounds terrible. You have two soft aoe ccs (both of which are used primarily to zone) and a suppression, don't expect to win any midgame fights or jungle encounters.
t.t how exactly does ap ez benefit this (or any other lol) composition? Might as well take teemo rofl
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Explorer ward for counter-invades last until ~2:40. That's more than enough time to ward one of your buffs or wraiths to see invades, both 1:40-1:55 invades and delayed jungle invades/ganks at level 2 by the other jungler.
I don't see how you can argue a free ward is ever a bad thing, especially when you can always save it for vision later in lane.
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EPT
