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On December 18 2012 00:47 zulu_nation8 wrote:
there's like one scenario i can imagine the 1min ward being helpful for invades. If you're getting invaded at blue, you ward your own blue. Otherwise if I'm invading enemy blue I tell my support to ward my own blue, and you can't do that with explorer ward.
Unless I'm mistaken there's no rule stating the ward has to be places early? As in the first few minutes of the game
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On December 18 2012 00:36 MattBarry wrote:
I love using ridiculous champion synergies. Swain/Vlad, get RoA/Rylais then double WotA then 2v5 the enemy team
Also Nid top, Ap EZ mid, WW jungle, Kog/NuNu bot. 2.5 attack speed at like 12 minutes. Huehue
Aura items don't stack anymore. You'd still only get one buff of wota. A better rush item would be double DFG.
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United States37500 Posts
Explorer ward is entirely based around level 1 engages. It's not a bad thing. Just don't pretend it's a normal 3 min ward and all's ok. zz
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Provides attack speed to allies he hits with W.
On December 18 2012 00:51 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 00:36 MattBarry wrote:
I love using ridiculous champion synergies. Swain/Vlad, get RoA/Rylais then double WotA then 2v5 the enemy team
Also Nid top, Ap EZ mid, WW jungle, Kog/NuNu bot. 2.5 attack speed at like 12 minutes. Huehue Aura items don't stack anymore. You'd still only get one buff of wota. A better rush item would be double DFG.
Source?
The only aura item that was stacking in the "wrong" way was Legion - Runic Bulwark and Aegis of the Legion on different champs were giving both auras to the entire team. Pretty sure the aura holders can still benefit from their own aura + an ally's identical aura - there haven't been any patch notes that claim otherwise, so I think a claim like this should be demonstrated.
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On December 18 2012 00:43 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 00:37 zulu_nation8 wrote:
what ganks will a 1min bot ward prevent? If the enemy jungler does blue and goes straight bot through river like an idiot? Or if you want to see if enemy team does a 1:40 blue/red invade but don't want to use a real ward. Or if you want to see if an aggressive enemy jungler counterjungles your jungler at red. Or one of the other thousand possible early game aggressions based on team comps? Not to mention you can always use it like a normal ward, for an extra minute of vision before having to buy more wards.
1st one is legit, but you have to see it coming, meaning you have to be at the buff you're getting invaded at.
2nd one no, timing doesnt work out. Only way it can work is if enemy jungler goes from their red to your red, and no one is dumb enough to do that now. And the 1min ward will still only give vision for like 10 secs which isn't enough to do anything. The other possibility is a Shaco going from his blue to your red, which the explorer ward will see but I think with the new jungle it's impossible to stop.
There are no thousand early game aggressions lol. The latest you can place the ward at somewhere other than bot is like 1:40 ish, nothing will happen before 2:40 in 90% of games. The earliest a jungler can get lv3 is after 3min and that's if he rushes both buffs. The new jungle makes it that most junglers will be low if they do that.
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On December 18 2012 00:51 sylverfyre wrote:
Provides attack speed to allies he hits with W.
I think his point was that AP ez needs to use W to damage enemies, not buff allies.
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On December 18 2012 00:51 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 00:47 zulu_nation8 wrote:
there's like one scenario i can imagine the 1min ward being helpful for invades. If you're getting invaded at blue, you ward your own blue. Otherwise if I'm invading enemy blue I tell my support to ward my own blue, and you can't do that with explorer ward. Unless I'm mistaken there's no rule stating the ward has to be places early?
Yeah I mean, if the other jungler is Shaco/Lee running exhaust put it in your wraith/red area to prevent the level 2 counterjungle. If you don't need it then save it for lane.
And that's just on supports. Utility mids love having that free minute of vision.
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On December 18 2012 00:51 NeoIllusions wrote:
Explorer ward is entirely based around level 1 engages. It's not a bad thing. Just don't pretend it's a normal 3 min ward and all's ok. zz
It's also a tactical 1050 sight range mini-CV (600 cast, 550 radius)
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Guys, its a fucking ward, its does all the things a ward does, except it has lower duration and is free.
What ganks will a 1min bot ward prevent? all the some ones a regular ward will....
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Explorer ward is also fine if you don't use it early. That's an extra minute of ward coverage for 1 point, so if you're sieging early or just want more ward coverage, that's another minute before you need to go back/start hugging tower. A lot can happen in one minute.
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On December 18 2012 00:50 Sandster wrote:
Explorer ward for counter-invades last until ~2:40. That's more than enough time to ward one of your buffs or wraiths to see invades, both 1:40-1:55 invades and delayed jungle invades/ganks at level 2 by the other jungler.
I don't see how you can argue a free ward is ever a bad thing, especially when you can always save it for vision later in lane.
if you're invading, you're placing the ward asap after game starts then going with team. The cost of one mastery point is not worth it, I never get it now.
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On December 18 2012 00:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 00:43 Sandster wrote:On December 18 2012 00:37 zulu_nation8 wrote:
what ganks will a 1min bot ward prevent? If the enemy jungler does blue and goes straight bot through river like an idiot? Or if you want to see if enemy team does a 1:40 blue/red invade but don't want to use a real ward. Or if you want to see if an aggressive enemy jungler counterjungles your jungler at red. Or one of the other thousand possible early game aggressions based on team comps? Not to mention you can always use it like a normal ward, for an extra minute of vision before having to buy more wards. 1st one is legit, but you have to see it coming, meaning you have to be at the buff you're getting invaded at. 2nd one no, timing doesnt work out. Only way it can work is if enemy jungler goes from their red to your red, and no one is dumb enough to do that now. And the 1min ward will still only give vision for like 10 secs which isn't enough to do anything. The other possibility is a Shaco going from his blue to your red, which the explorer ward will see but I think with the new jungle it's impossible to stop. There are no thousand early game aggressions lol. The latest you can place the ward at somewhere other than bot is like 1:40 ish, nothing will happen before 2:40 in 90% of games. The earliest a jungler can get lv3 is after 3min and that's if he rushes both buffs. The new jungle makes it that most junglers will be low if they do that.
1: It's pretty common for teams to sit in dragon/top river brush and invade blue at 1:40. This leads to a ton of FBs, especially solo queue, when your teammates leash wolves and no one stays at blue to check for the invade. It's still not a lot of time but at least you can immediately go their blue if you see this.
2: The timing does work out with shaco. If you see him and you have a weak jungler (e.g. Amumu) you skip red, go to another camp, and tell your mid and bot to immediately collapse.
Yes most games nothing happen before 2:40. But the small portion of games that the enemy jungler DOES get aggressive completely screws you over if they're successful, which means 2 points for biscuit+ward is always worth it. And again, if you don't suspect early game shenanigans you save the ward.
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United States37500 Posts
f'ing bly, we get you don't like it, it's not worth a mastery point to you. But guess what? I think it's worth it.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. Let it go, jesus.
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idk about pro-level but at low elo you can do one of three things:
ward somewhere near buff your jungler's doing overlooking common invade paths (river, etc.). people die to this every time in soloq
ward near buff your jungler's not doing - usually the buff brush itself. generally this will be the red bush, because your jungler would probably gank after taking red and warding blue would be of limited use
ward lane bush asap - extremely useful vs aggressive supports. can sometimes bait out pink ward if they're not paying attention. usually though lane pushes one way and so you don't waste a 3min ward on a potentially useless lane ward
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It's great for early plays (invade, counter jungling at lvl 2-3) and okayish for later purpose like bush warding for fights. So taking it is up to you, personally I take it.
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The point of warding your red is not so you can give it up completely but to fight and in the worse case smite steal it. If a shaco starts your red asap after his blue, there's nothing you can do. If the shaco is retarded and starts placing boxes at your red then you have to be equally retarded to die.
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On December 18 2012 00:59 greggy wrote:
idk about pro-level but at low elo you can do one of three things:
ward somewhere near buff your jungler's doing overlooking common invade paths (river, etc.). people die to this every time in soloq
ward near buff your jungler's not doing - usually the buff brush itself. generally this will be the red bush, because your jungler would probably gank after taking red and warding blue would be of limited use
ward lane bush asap - extremely useful vs aggressive supports. can sometimes bait out pink ward if they're not paying attention. usually though lane pushes one way and so you don't waste a 3min ward on a potentially useless lane ward
This last one is the one I see most often. It's extremely helpful in establishing level 1-3 brush control for your support when your support sits in your lane brush and explorer ward the other one. They either pink it, which is great for you, or you get free vision for enough time to see which way lane pushes and get you through a couple levels.
On December 18 2012 01:04 zulu_nation8 wrote:
The point of warding your red is not so you can give it up completely but to fight and in the worse case smite steal it. If a shaco starts your red asap after his blue, there's nothing you can do. If the shaco is retarded and starts placing boxes at your red then you have to be equally retarded to die.
Oh I suppose I should play shaco and do that every game then, since it has a 100% success rate. Seeing Shaco come counterjungle (instead of gank) and telling your lanes to collapse and completely waste his time/summoners is definitely not a viable option.
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neo what is your problem? I'm not allowed to post more than once to argue a point?
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On December 18 2012 01:04 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 01:04 zulu_nation8 wrote:
The point of warding your red is not so you can give it up completely but to fight and in the worse case smite steal it. If a shaco starts your red asap after his blue, there's nothing you can do. If the shaco is retarded and starts placing boxes at your red then you have to be equally retarded to die. Oh I suppose I should play shaco and do that every game then, since it has a 100% success rate. Seeing Shaco come counterjungle (instead of gank) and telling your lanes to collapse and completely waste his time/summoners is definitely not a viable option.
Assuming you're purple side, Shaco goes to your red after blue and starts it asap, both of your solos are at lv1, halfway to lv2. You're still doing blue or just finished it. By the time you get there the buff will be gone. I think you can maybe try to smite steal but depends on your leash at blue. If you tell your solos to collapse, shaco will deceive away and your solos lose creeps/exp. He comes back and fucks with you some more, your solos come to collapse again and lose more exp/gold. If your solos don't come, you can't fight him 1v1 and you can't start red. I'd say it's a pretty failsafe strat and I see good shacos do it vs almost ever jungler every game.
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On December 18 2012 01:11 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 01:04 Sandster wrote:On December 18 2012 01:04 zulu_nation8 wrote:
The point of warding your red is not so you can give it up completely but to fight and in the worse case smite steal it. If a shaco starts your red asap after his blue, there's nothing you can do. If the shaco is retarded and starts placing boxes at your red then you have to be equally retarded to die. Oh I suppose I should play shaco and do that every game then, since it has a 100% success rate. Seeing Shaco come counterjungle (instead of gank) and telling your lanes to collapse and completely waste his time/summoners is definitely not a viable option. Assuming you're purple side, Shaco goes to your red after blue and starts it asap, both of your solos are at lv1, halfway to lv2. You're still doing blue or just finished it. By the time you get there the buff will be gone. I think you can maybe try to smite steal but depends on your leash at blue. If you tell your solos to collapse, shaco will deceive away and your solos lose creeps/exp. He comes back and fucks with you some more, your solos come to collapse again and lose more exp/gold. If your solos don't come, you can't fight him 1v1 and you can't start red. I'd say it's a pretty failsafe strat and I see good shacos do it vs almost ever jungler every game.
Kind of sucks for him if you decide to start Red or steal his Red instead if he's that predictable.
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EPT
