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[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 53

Forum Index > LoL General
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sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
December 17 2012 17:38 GMT
#1041
So on the one hand, I'm really happy that SKT1 won their first event, cause I was a shameless SKT fanboy in BW. On the other hand, I'm frustrated at them for ... looking (weak / not that dominant / fallible?) in the process. They seem to have communication and coordination issues.

I'm sure that can be resolved with good practice and coaching though, so I'm looking forward for SKT to be rocking the scene in the months to come!

Shameless SKT fanboy, ready to cheer for BisuReapered!
SagaZ
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
France3460 Posts
December 17 2012 17:40 GMT
#1042
Explorer ward is very good, just not for scouting jungle invades. use a regular ward for that.
explorer ward is very usefull for bot lane brush control, sometimes you will be pushing very hard, so you know you will have control of their brush soon, but you're against an annoying support so while the wave is still in the middle of the lane, you use the explorer ward to see the brush for that short while.
Same situation if you are getting pushed, you will eventually green ward your brush, but while the wave is still in the middle and you want the vision, explorer very usefull.
you can bait pink wards with it too, supports can be very eager to use their pink as soon as they see you ward a brush. many times they pinked my explorer ward oh oh.
there's also a neat trick for those cowboy support standoffs that involve pinking dragon.
enemy support is a bit stronger than you 1v1 (let's say they are sona, you are soraka) they junst pinked dragon and you want to do the same. problem is you can't just pink and kill theirs cause they "zone you" from it, if you drop it they will destroy it before you destroy theirs.
so this is when you di the fake out, you explorerward at the very edge of their pink sight and then run to their pink, in 95% of the cases since they are at their pink, they will see your fake ward, run to kill it. but when they do that you run to their pink, pink it and kill it, you can do it now since they lost their tempo by killing your fake ward, WORTH
It's free vision for 1 minute, very usefull. Also right now, junglers have no real idea wtf to do so the jungle timings are very obscure, but when we start to figure them out, the ward will only get more and more usefull.
Be nice, buy wards and don't feed double buff.
willoc
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada1530 Posts
December 17 2012 17:48 GMT
#1043
On December 18 2012 01:33 NeoIllusions wrote:
I don't know bly,


Why do you keep calling him bly?
Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid!
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 17 2012 17:49 GMT
#1044
On December 18 2012 02:04 Requizen wrote:
Also, I know I missed the discussion on Twin Shadows before, but I really feel like it's a good item on Soraka. I like getting Kage's early for some extra heal/poke (especially now that I skip Philo completely and have Sightstone for Wards), and without any CC outside of silence and no poke, I think it just adds a lot to her kit that she doesn't have. Not tanky enough to facecheck bushes and no skillshots to throw in there, it's nice for standoffs. I also think it's a bit better at chasing than Reverie, since it also helps give vision of the target you're chasing, so no jukes.

It's worse than Shurelya's for chasing. It has to HIT the target to have any effect during chases, and as I illustrated a few pages ago, the likelihood of it hitting is drastically reduced as enemies have higher and higher movespeed (hitting the 415 soft cap is fairly typical with lategame items).
Moderator
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-17 17:54:34
December 17 2012 17:51 GMT
#1045
On December 18 2012 02:38 sylverfyre wrote:
So on the one hand, I'm really happy that SKT1 won their first event, cause I was a shameless SKT fanboy in BW. On the other hand, I'm frustrated at them for ... looking (weak / not that dominant / fallible?) in the process. They seem to have communication and coordination issues.

I'm sure that can be resolved with good practice and coaching though, so I'm looking forward for SKT to be rocking the scene in the months to come!

Shameless SKT fanboy, ready to cheer for BisuReapered!

When you take into account the fact they have only been a team since early December (so not even a month old) the fact their communication isn't top notch kind of makes sense. Developing synergy takes time, months and months of practice is required to reach the highest level of coordination. On top of that, the only other player besides Reapered that has any pro experience is H0R0. So they are a young team with three players that are new to the competitive scene, if anything they probably shouldn't have won the event at all haha! Reapered can carry pretty hard, but the long term success of this team will revolve around how much the other players improve.
On December 18 2012 02:48 willoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2012 01:33 NeoIllusions wrote:
I don't know bly,


Why do you keep calling him bly?

He's referring to his game ID, same way that people refer to HazMat as Shake. Takes a while to get used to.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
December 17 2012 18:02 GMT
#1046
One of the oft overlooked facets of Twin Shadows is that it doesn't necessarily need to hit anything to be useful. There's a lot that you can infer simply from the paths the wraiths take. In this way you can use Twin Shadows late-game to face check bushes for you, and otherwise have some security in situations where your ward coverage is lacking. It's an inglorious use of a 2 minute cooldown, but an effective one.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
thenexusp
Profile Joined May 2009
United States3721 Posts
December 17 2012 18:06 GMT
#1047
has anyone ever made good use of the ward vision mastery? I've tried it out a couple games but didn't really get much use out of it.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-17 18:09:48
December 17 2012 18:08 GMT
#1048
On December 18 2012 02:48 willoc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2012 01:33 NeoIllusions wrote:
I don't know bly,


Why do you keep calling him bly?

It's his ign, iirc. Same way people call Mogwai Smash, HazMat is Shake(I think?), etc.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
December 17 2012 18:12 GMT
#1049
On December 18 2012 03:06 thenexusp wrote:
has anyone ever made good use of the ward vision mastery? I've tried it out a couple games but didn't really get much use out of it.


oh my god we're stuck in a loop
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
December 17 2012 18:13 GMT
#1050
On December 18 2012 02:49 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2012 02:04 Requizen wrote:
Also, I know I missed the discussion on Twin Shadows before, but I really feel like it's a good item on Soraka. I like getting Kage's early for some extra heal/poke (especially now that I skip Philo completely and have Sightstone for Wards), and without any CC outside of silence and no poke, I think it just adds a lot to her kit that she doesn't have. Not tanky enough to facecheck bushes and no skillshots to throw in there, it's nice for standoffs. I also think it's a bit better at chasing than Reverie, since it also helps give vision of the target you're chasing, so no jukes.

It's worse than Shurelya's for chasing. It has to HIT the target to have any effect during chases, and as I illustrated a few pages ago, the likelihood of it hitting is drastically reduced as enemies have higher and higher movespeed (hitting the 415 soft cap is fairly typical with lategame items).

Even if it doesn't, it still gives you a direction that the person is running though. Sure it won't help you catch a capped (soft) person running away by slowing them, but knowledge is power in many, if not all, situations. Not to mention seeing one shadow peel off and go another direction is a good indicator of "someone else is coming, back off". And has the multifaceted use of just shooting out when you don't know where they are and going forward to ward is too risky.

I simply think vision and location knowledge are more powerful tools than just a speed boost, and it lines up nicely with me buying Kage's earlier on.
It's your boy Guzma!
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
December 17 2012 18:14 GMT
#1051
On December 18 2012 03:12 sob3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2012 03:06 thenexusp wrote:
has anyone ever made good use of the ward vision mastery? I've tried it out a couple games but didn't really get much use out of it.


oh my god we're stuck in a loop

I think he's talking about the "you get extra vision for the first x seconds you place a ward" mastery.'

I think it's useless.
It's your boy Guzma!
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
December 17 2012 18:18 GMT
#1052
On December 18 2012 03:02 Seuss wrote:
One of the oft overlooked facets of Twin Shadows is that it doesn't necessarily need to hit anything to be useful. There's a lot that you can infer simply from the paths the wraiths take. In this way you can use Twin Shadows late-game to face check bushes for you, and otherwise have some security in situations where your ward coverage is lacking. It's an inglorious use of a 2 minute cooldown, but an effective one.


Totally agree. Makes setting up wards deep in the enemy jungle a whole lot safer for the support.
Bora Pain minha porra!
Tooplark
Profile Joined October 2008
United States3977 Posts
December 17 2012 18:25 GMT
#1053
Tank Gragas new OP
tear warmogs gg
WHAT POW'R ART THOU WHO FROM BELOW HAST MADE ME RISE UNWILLINGLY AND SLOW
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
December 17 2012 18:27 GMT
#1054
On December 18 2012 03:14 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2012 03:12 sob3k wrote:
On December 18 2012 03:06 thenexusp wrote:
has anyone ever made good use of the ward vision mastery? I've tried it out a couple games but didn't really get much use out of it.


oh my god we're stuck in a loop

I think he's talking about the "you get extra vision for the first x seconds you place a ward" mastery.'

I think it's useless.


Pretty much. The temporary extra vision is rarely going to catch sight of anything, and even then it won't necessarily be meaningful. It's niftier than its predecessor, but not by much.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-17 18:35:44
December 17 2012 18:27 GMT
#1055
On December 18 2012 03:13 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2012 02:49 TheYango wrote:
On December 18 2012 02:04 Requizen wrote:
Also, I know I missed the discussion on Twin Shadows before, but I really feel like it's a good item on Soraka. I like getting Kage's early for some extra heal/poke (especially now that I skip Philo completely and have Sightstone for Wards), and without any CC outside of silence and no poke, I think it just adds a lot to her kit that she doesn't have. Not tanky enough to facecheck bushes and no skillshots to throw in there, it's nice for standoffs. I also think it's a bit better at chasing than Reverie, since it also helps give vision of the target you're chasing, so no jukes.

It's worse than Shurelya's for chasing. It has to HIT the target to have any effect during chases, and as I illustrated a few pages ago, the likelihood of it hitting is drastically reduced as enemies have higher and higher movespeed (hitting the 415 soft cap is fairly typical with lategame items).

Even if it doesn't, it still gives you a direction that the person is running though. Sure it won't help you catch a capped (soft) person running away by slowing them, but knowledge is power in many, if not all, situations. Not to mention seeing one shadow peel off and go another direction is a good indicator of "someone else is coming, back off". And has the multifaceted use of just shooting out when you don't know where they are and going forward to ward is too risky.

I simply think vision and location knowledge are more powerful tools than just a speed boost, and it lines up nicely with me buying Kage's earlier on.

I generally consider it not "chasing" if you're fishing in the dark for someone you're not close enough to see.

I still don't see the item as a support item because the stats provided are still too shitty for a support to have. Kage's is still not really a good support item, despite peoples' inherent fascination with gp10.

The item's ganking usefulness makes it seem most suited to be an AP mid item, as I've said before--the most awkward part being the Kage's making you conflicted on whether you want to finish the item or sit on Kage.
Moderator
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
December 17 2012 18:33 GMT
#1056
I have won a lot of games for free against shaco with explorer ward, If you are blue side you tell your support to ward dragon and it shows shaco going from his blue to your red.

Same apllies with blitzcrank, tell our support to go ward for blitz invade really fast then get a free win.
I come in for the scraps
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
December 17 2012 18:37 GMT
#1057
On December 18 2012 03:33 VayneAuthority wrote:
I have won a lot of games for free against shaco with explorer ward, If you are blue side you tell your support to ward dragon and it shows shaco going from his blue to your red.

Same apllies with blitzcrank, tell our support to go ward for blitz invade really fast then get a free win.



You've played a blitz? Firstbanned in every game I've played this season.
shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
December 17 2012 18:43 GMT
#1058
On December 18 2012 03:08 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2012 02:48 willoc wrote:
On December 18 2012 01:33 NeoIllusions wrote:
I don't know bly,


Why do you keep calling him bly?

It's his ign, iirc. Same way people call Mogwai Smash, HazMat is Shake(I think?), etc.


RiotShakegizbrogwai and SmashDrizzlemat
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
Sponkz
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark4564 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-17 18:49:55
December 17 2012 18:49 GMT
#1059
Lol, how something i post, becomes a bly vs TL in a matter of hours. Love it.
hi
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
December 17 2012 18:51 GMT
#1060
On December 18 2012 03:27 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2012 03:13 Requizen wrote:
On December 18 2012 02:49 TheYango wrote:
On December 18 2012 02:04 Requizen wrote:
Also, I know I missed the discussion on Twin Shadows before, but I really feel like it's a good item on Soraka. I like getting Kage's early for some extra heal/poke (especially now that I skip Philo completely and have Sightstone for Wards), and without any CC outside of silence and no poke, I think it just adds a lot to her kit that she doesn't have. Not tanky enough to facecheck bushes and no skillshots to throw in there, it's nice for standoffs. I also think it's a bit better at chasing than Reverie, since it also helps give vision of the target you're chasing, so no jukes.

It's worse than Shurelya's for chasing. It has to HIT the target to have any effect during chases, and as I illustrated a few pages ago, the likelihood of it hitting is drastically reduced as enemies have higher and higher movespeed (hitting the 415 soft cap is fairly typical with lategame items).

Even if it doesn't, it still gives you a direction that the person is running though. Sure it won't help you catch a capped (soft) person running away by slowing them, but knowledge is power in many, if not all, situations. Not to mention seeing one shadow peel off and go another direction is a good indicator of "someone else is coming, back off". And has the multifaceted use of just shooting out when you don't know where they are and going forward to ward is too risky.

I simply think vision and location knowledge are more powerful tools than just a speed boost, and it lines up nicely with me buying Kage's earlier on.

I generally consider it not "chasing" if you're fishing in the dark for someone you're not close enough to see.

I still don't see the item as a support item because the stats provided are still too shitty for a support to have. Kage's is still not really a good support item, despite peoples' inherent fascination with gp10.

The item's ganking usefulness makes it seem most suited to be an AP mid item, as I've said before--the most awkward part being the Kage's making you conflicted on whether you want to finish the item or sit on Kage.

I suppose wording then. I like to use it when someone dashes through a bush or goes into tri and we don't know what way they're going or if they're setting up an ambush: bam more knowledge than you can shake a stick at.

But I suppose you're right. Crucible, Aegis, and Locket are probably the actual "support items". Though I doubt anyone else at my level would buy Twin Shadows unless a pro suddenly did it in a game.
It's your boy Guzma!
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