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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On December 17 2012 15:13 ticklishmusic wrote: i think if mid wards their river brush properly it covers the other entrance to your jungle as well (i think). That "if" is what always screws you when you look at the "optimal" play and then do a reality check. | ||
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dottycakes
Canada548 Posts
On December 17 2012 14:42 iCanada wrote: Well, its all totally brand new, so ofcourse there a lot of disagreements. I dunno, I manly like to just build strong combat stats, then build into traditional supporty stuff. Even though I always feel super rich, I also know I dont get THAT much gold. Things like Haunting guise most cost efficient. What would you buy with 700 gold that would drastically change the trades if you bought it in place of a sightstone? I don't really see a difference in the duo lane from S2 and S3 and the sightstone is essentially a HoG. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
 http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/14ywzq/some_quotes_with_moments_from_skt1_voice_stream/ | ||
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Ziken
Ghana1743 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 17 2012 15:21 UniversalSnip wrote: i honestly don't think it's that amazing for ganking. I think it's more like a reverse shurelya's than anything else, the sort of thing you use with wards in their jungle to pick someone solo queue style in the midgame. The ghosts don't really run that fast and they need to catch someone before they actually do anything so the target can potentially get very far away which means you need a LOT of followup to take advantage of it, and the cooldown is well over a minute and a half even with util masteries. For something that's useful but not particularly reliable buying it with the idea it'll pay for itself by helping you gank seems like, well, quite a gamble. The ghosts move faster than a champion, which is what matters in a gank. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12070 Posts
On December 17 2012 15:16 Alaric wrote: That "if" is what always screws you when you look at the "optimal" play and then do a reality check. They never do. Basically, my ideal ward setup as a support, which i try to maintain is mid river brush, drake/tribrush and lane brush. Of course, the problem with this is that mid river brush is pretty far away from your lane. With those three wards, i feel save. If one of them is missing, i always know that there is a way the enemy jungler could take to get to me unnoticed, and that is scary. Especially since they always manage to take that one way. It also means that i want a sightstone and some additional wards. Later on, you always want additional wards, too, unless you notice others on your team also warding. 3 wards on the map are simply not enough at all. If i can afford it, i get a sightstone on my first back. If not, i get pieces of either a philo or kages, and a few wards. I probably should stop getting philo, though. I noticed that i never turn it into something, and it basically gives no stats at all now. However, this will reduce my gold gain by a lot, and i like gold. Still worth it to gain lane dominance, probably. Skipping philo would also help against my inventory space problems if i have a sightstone, additional wards, and a flask. I think i'll experiment more with wardens rush on tanky supports, and maybe even chalice rush on pokey ones. Though in that case, kages is probably the better choice. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On December 17 2012 15:40 TheYango wrote: The ghosts move faster than a champion, which is what matters in a gank. Uh, no. They would be completely worthless if they didn't, but the fact that they do doesn't make their move speed irrelevant. If you're not already riding a target the time they have to run before they actually get CCed can be substantial. There's a big difference between slowing an enemy, and slowing an enemy when they're under their tower. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 17 2012 15:52 UniversalSnip wrote: Uh, no. They would be completely worthless if they didn't, but the fact that they do doesn't make their move speed irrelevant. If you're not already riding a target the time they have to run before they actually get CCed can be substantial. There's a big difference between slowing an enemy, and slowing an enemy when they're under their tower. They're still useful by nature of the fact that they're not targeted, meaning you can start them before you would get in range to target the enemy champ with anything else. The non-targeting requirement also means that you can essentially nullify the juking potential of the side brushes entirely. They're not a catch-all that suddenly makes every gank work, but they will make a good number of ganks work that wouldn't have otherwise. The ghosts have HIGHEST value when their MS is high relative to a champion. They're strong in no-boots/T1 boots situations, and OK vs. T2 boots. In the "reverse Shurelya's" situation, their value is fairly low because a lot of champs will approach the ghosts' 450 ms by that point, meaning the rate they gain ground on a champ lategame is extremely low. | ||
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Haasts
New Zealand4445 Posts
On December 17 2012 15:56 TheYango wrote: The non-targeting requirement also means that you can essentially nullify the juking potential of the side brushes entirely. It's been surprisingly useful for being able to land a Twisted Advance or Ice Blast when someone's attempting to retreat to their tower through the lane brush. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
- Against a 330 MS champion, the ghosts have approximately 720 effective range--the ghosts have a 120 MS advantage, and therefore over 6 seconds will gain 720 MS worth of distance. Since this is more or less an impractical scenario, I'm not going to discuss this one further. - Against a 350 MS champion, the ghosts will have approximately 600 effective. Not amazing, but outranges a large number of jungler gank-intiating options, and, crucially, does not require vision or targeting to perform. Furthermore, having a lead-off CC from the laner drastically extends the effective range of the ghosts here. If your laner has a 1.5 second stun, that's 775 range that the ghosts are moving when the laner isn't, meaning that you can start the ghosts 1375 range from the enemy champ, and expect them to be able to hit within those 6 seconds. - Against a 370 MS champ, the the ghosts have 480 effective range. Not so amazing. At this point you'd more or less need a lead-off CC to ensure that they'll hit. - Against a 415 MS champ, the ghosts have 210 effective range. Melee autoattack range is 125. Skarner pull range is 350. In a mid-lategame scenario the likelihood of the ghosts actually being able to initiate something is virtually nil--and even if they could, leading off with any skill would have higher reliability. The amount of distance the ghosts move relative to a champ seeing them coming is extremely small. Note: these numbers slightly underestimate the actual effective range because it's rare that the enemy champion can run directly in a straight line away from the ghost. However, this factor is going to be roughly similar in most cases, regardless. | ||
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SagaZ
France3460 Posts
rush sightstone, ruby crystal, pinks if necesary ruby sightstone then whatever support item i feel would be good for the game i don't like gp5 this season, flask is plenty of sustain by itself so philo feels redundant. redundant as in you just wasted 700 gold redundant. kage is meh, ap early on support is pretty useless and it feels really akward cause you're super squishy. I really think the ruby crystal somewhat early is necessary, i just upgrade the sightstone cause the recipe for the upgrade is very cheap. i really like rushing a kindlegem on most supports after that, cdr is hard to get now. talking about cdr, i've been getting cdr boots on almost every supports so far, and getting it when i feel ok with my hp levels. I'm not sure what i think about oracles on support now, especially in soloqueue. If you get it you're practically saying that you're going to force a play in the next 5 minutes, but sometimes your team will just run around in circles and you've wasted precious 400g. Pinks feel in a very nice spot now because of it, but there's so many gay places to ward a zone that escapes from a standardly placed pink ward. Also, jungle camps are so strong now, you can't really steal a double golem camp from your team anytime soon, and even if you can it just takes forever. So yeah i tax a bit the lane, especially early to accelerate the sightstone baby making. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On December 17 2012 15:51 Simberto wrote: They never do. Basically, my ideal ward setup as a support, which i try to maintain is mid river brush, drake/tribrush and lane brush. Of course, the problem with this is that mid river brush is pretty far away from your lane. With those three wards, i feel save. If one of them is missing, i always know that there is a way the enemy jungler could take to get to me unnoticed, and that is scary. Especially since they always manage to take that one way. It also means that i want a sightstone and some additional wards. Later on, you always want additional wards, too, unless you notice others on your team also warding. 3 wards on the map are simply not enough at all. If i can afford it, i get a sightstone on my first back. If not, i get pieces of either a philo or kages, and a few wards. I probably should stop getting philo, though. I noticed that i never turn it into something, and it basically gives no stats at all now. However, this will reduce my gold gain by a lot, and i like gold. Still worth it to gain lane dominance, probably. Skipping philo would also help against my inventory space problems if i have a sightstone, additional wards, and a flask. I think i'll experiment more with wardens rush on tanky supports, and maybe even chalice rush on pokey ones. Though in that case, kages is probably the better choice. it enrages me so much because goddam it makes life easier for fucking everyone if you don't ward like a shithead-- i mean, non supports can learn warding places too, and the concept of "ward to cover maximum paths" is not that complicated. -__-" i usually put my first down so it covers the river entrance to tribush (no point in running all the way to drake, they can't take it), then drop the second one so it covers drake and the entrance to the enemy jungle. there's always annoying special cases like shen and stuff where they can bypass it and jump/dash into the riverbrush though. the more i think of it, the more i dont like buying crystalline flask. im still liking going the old faerie x2 into philo/boots (or sightstone depending on gold). might consider changing runes to a little hp5, but that's it. i think flask/faerie with one ward might be viable on supports with the +gold mastery, but its very iffy... im even tempted to do some silly thing where the support waits in base or backs right after something happens so he can buy that one ward if he doesn't take the +gold mastery. feels like faerie + flask can bully really, really hard with champs like lulu/sona/raka. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
I'm still exceedingly skeptical of the payoff of building this item specifically to gank but that's got to be the intended usage. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
I've ulted while stunned a couple of times as cait and always thought it was a bug, I guess it kinda is but never knew it could be repeated. | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
On December 17 2012 18:35 zulu_nation8 wrote: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/14zf5g/ill_just_leave_this_here_bicking_an_advanced/ I've ulted while stunned a couple of times as cait and always thought it was a bug, I guess it kinda is but never knew it could be repeated. A correction to make to the video description here. He states that: This technique is really easy to do with characters with long cast animations that don't get interuppted by CC; Ezreal ult and Lux ult come to mind. Skills which have lengthy wind-up times (specifically Ez and Lux Ults) actually cannot be stopped by CC no matter what and don't require the user to worry about CC. The only way you can stop them is to kill them before their cast animation completes. (aka they're designed to continue working even through CC) | ||
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DeltaBravo
United States119 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On sup like sona i'd rather build an hybride build like 11/9/10 to add some damage in lane but I only play Leona nowadays. | ||
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