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On December 17 2012 13:03 YouGotNothin wrote:
Since we are on the topic of support items, when do you guys typically pick up a sightstone and when do you upgrade it? It is so expensive in upfront cost, that I find it can really delay some of my key support items (crucible, locket). Honestly I don't really like the item, unupgraded, two wards at a time is rarely enough, and I still have to buy pinks (even more so with the oracles nerf). And when I do get the money to upgrade it, it seems I am at the point in the game where often 3 wards at a time is not enough.
I try to get it as soon as possible. My reasoning is that it saves gold. Even if it doesn't provide enough wards you can also buy more. I'm very late game conscious so I feel like a non gold saving build won't let me scale as well.
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When deciding new support build paths, I pretty much treat sightstone like HoG except with much higher effective gp10.
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two wards should be plenty for laning phase... drop one in river, drop another somewhere if you really feel the need ever. you can even buy another ward or two if you really feel the need, especially after finishing a gp5 or two.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 17 2012 13:54 ticklishmusic wrote:
two wards should be plenty for laning phase... drop one in river, drop another somewhere if you really feel the need ever. you can even buy another ward or two if you really feel the need, especially after finishing a gp5 or two.
I usually just drop my second ward in tri-brush if I don't think I need them in either lane brush, tri-bush ganks seem to happen move often than lane ganks (although that might depend on the elo)
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Well you can have drake warded but as soon as you want to get aggressive you also need to ward the tribrush (esp. blue side in soloQ if they don't ward wraith, been fucked top several times like that both blue and purple recently), and the lane bush to make them feel insecure. If you're on the defensive you still need drake warded, and the lane bush so you don't get lane ganked. Also add a 3rd for tribrush if you're blue side.
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Actually whether you do well or not it's drake+lane bush, and a 3rd one if you blue side. ¬¬
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On December 17 2012 13:54 thenexusp wrote:
When deciding new support build paths, I pretty much treat sightstone like HoG except with much higher effective gp10.
Hmm except I stopped getting HoG so long ago because of this forum lol. I'm so used to having my kindlegem to build into something tasty earlier (Shurelia's or Locket). I think my real problem is that my top or jungle never get aegis like I think they should.
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Flask + Pink + 2 wards best opening for supports imo. Do it on every Soraka lane, and with Biscuit + mastery ward, I feel completely safe and in control of the lane. I'm just not sure what to buy now that I have so much money after Sightstone. Twin Shadows is so fucking good, tho. Either end up getting Reverie or Aegis. I'll probably start trying Locket in some games.
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On December 17 2012 13:54 thenexusp wrote:
When deciding new support build paths, I pretty much treat sightstone like HoG except with much higher effective gp10.
I disagree with this 100% tanky supports NEED the stats in lane while I see it as a great item for the poky supports it certainly isn't advisable to spend your first 700 gold on something that only gives 100 health. Its certainly better to go for a mail rush on someone whos going to be up close and personal (-20% right click damage flat and 500 effective health for only 1100g). And as for the zyra lux side of second position ap carry supports you don't even need that many wards for vision in lane only to prevent ganks. On that path of supports you'd probably rather get a chalice and then ap.
I think its an item you should get as you transition into mid-late game when you really start dropping wards at baron/dragon and important areas.
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On December 17 2012 13:47 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 13:20 iCanada wrote:On December 17 2012 13:03 YouGotNothin wrote:
Since we are on the topic of support items, when do you guys typically pick up a sightstone and when do you upgrade it? It is so expensive in upfront cost, that I find it can really delay some of my key support items (crucible, locket). Honestly I don't really like the item, unupgraded, two wards at a time is rarely enough, and I still have to buy pinks (even more so with the oracles nerf). And when I do get the money to upgrade it, it seems I am at the point in the game where often 3 wards at a time is not enough. I've personally been putting it off a fair bit. I dunno how right it is, but I been starting like this: Flask+Wards->Boots+RubyCrystal/AmpTomb+Ward->Haunting Guise+Ward->Sorc Shoes+Ward->Chalice->Sightstone I just kind of dicking around, changing things up every game. I dunno if you actually need both Sorc shoes and Haunting, I just know that MPen Lulu so awesome. I feel like you should build sightstone way earlier to really get your moneys worth, the earlier the more cost effective it becomes . If you get it that late if your build you've already spent so much money on wards that you could have saved. I think saving that money is worth giving up a little early level damage.
Except when enemy Support does 70 more damage per spell because you decided to spend all your gold on wards. Legitimately 1 ward per back not bad at all. Enemy support may have more gold, but enemy AD gets less because you just win trades.
As much as supports super good and awesome now, they still there to get AD fed, shut down enemy AD.
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Well there certainly seems to be a lot of disagreement about support itemization here. Makes me wish IEM Cologne was on S3 patch so we could see what the pros were doing (I'm a sheep!).
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On December 17 2012 14:39 YouGotNothin wrote:
Well there certainly seems to be a lot of disagreement about support itemization here. Makes me wish IEM Cologne was on S3 patch so we could see what the pros were doing (I'm a sheep!).
Well, its all totally brand new, so ofcourse there a lot of disagreements.
I dunno, I manly like to just build strong combat stats, then build into traditional supporty stuff. Even though I always feel super rich, I also know I dont get THAT much gold. Things like Haunting guise most cost efficient.
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On December 17 2012 14:39 YouGotNothin wrote:
Well there certainly seems to be a lot of disagreement about support itemization here. Makes me wish IEM Cologne was on S3 patch so we could see what the pros were doing (I'm a sheep!).
You and me both. I'm cringing hard when I see pro streamers making a philo stone and I want my opinions validated  .
I'm telling you guys though. mao (I've seen it a lot recently so I guess I'll include it) J4, taric, leona supporting get a quick mail + tabi and dominate like nothing else.
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Just played 2 games with Guinsoo, thought he would be better 
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Apparently I have Santa Baron already. Didn't tell me or anything. Wacky.
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Just hit a personal elo record of 1654 elo. :D Last season I only got up to 1630, I can already smell 1700!
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Meh I haven't built twin shadows even once. Shard seems pretty good on divers and when you have a peeler that can afford just running around (Sona until you get a powerchord charged, Soraka, Janna, junglers like Naut/Mao once their spells are on cd seem pretty ok for this, the others just do so much more damage autoattacking or are diving anyway) so you can laugh at their bruisers, and I generally favor it over twin shadows for supports I build kage on (Janna, Soraka/Sona if I get a lot of gold or very passive laning).
What do you build twin shadows for, and if it's only the active, in which "ideal" situations would you want to use it for?
Actually I really love the idea of Shard (gp5 -> peeling active + mp5 aura) for a poke/disengage/protect comp, and it's even easy to build when you play support in such a setup (Sona/Janna/Lulu don't do bad with some AP mixed in, or even Zyra but she uses it more offensively so...), it's just that I barely get to play that (people I used to play premades with don't really try comps, they just let him fill jungle because noone plays that and pick one of the 2 champs they know for their "favorite" (read: only) position, and in soloQ AoE comps are way more popular than splitpush/poke anyway).
Haven't got the opportunity to play it on a diving comp though. Curious to see how it'd do on Mundo/Olaf/Nocturne/Shyvana/any champ pretending to take walkabouts in teamfights really (does one say "to take a walkabout", or to do, or sthing?).
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United States47024 Posts
Twin Shadows still feels like a ganking item to me. In theory I'd like it on a gank-oriented AP, but its stats/gold and the fact that it uses Kage makes it awkward for that.
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i feel like you can get away w/o a tribush ward as blue if you just put it so the river entrance is warded, i think if mid wards their river brush properly it covers the other entrance to your jungle as well (i think).
pink wards are a lot more... interesting as a resource with sightstone now. it snowballs you pretty hard once you get ahead.
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On December 17 2012 14:52 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 14:39 YouGotNothin wrote:
Well there certainly seems to be a lot of disagreement about support itemization here. Makes me wish IEM Cologne was on S3 patch so we could see what the pros were doing (I'm a sheep!). You and me both. I'm cringing hard when I see pro streamers making a philo stone and I want my opinions validated . I'm telling you guys though. mao (I've seen it a lot recently so I guess I'll include it) J4, taric, leona supporting get a quick mail + tabi and dominate like nothing else.
Well you shoulda watched Dyrus and TOO Duo last night (or maybe just randomly in same game). Dyrus built Philo on Singed and TOO was like "Philo Sucks" then like 5 mins later he's like "it really does"
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United States23745 Posts
On December 17 2012 14:35 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 13:47 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 17 2012 13:20 iCanada wrote:On December 17 2012 13:03 YouGotNothin wrote:
Since we are on the topic of support items, when do you guys typically pick up a sightstone and when do you upgrade it? It is so expensive in upfront cost, that I find it can really delay some of my key support items (crucible, locket). Honestly I don't really like the item, unupgraded, two wards at a time is rarely enough, and I still have to buy pinks (even more so with the oracles nerf). And when I do get the money to upgrade it, it seems I am at the point in the game where often 3 wards at a time is not enough. I've personally been putting it off a fair bit. I dunno how right it is, but I been starting like this: Flask+Wards->Boots+RubyCrystal/AmpTomb+Ward->Haunting Guise+Ward->Sorc Shoes+Ward->Chalice->Sightstone I just kind of dicking around, changing things up every game. I dunno if you actually need both Sorc shoes and Haunting, I just know that MPen Lulu so awesome. I feel like you should build sightstone way earlier to really get your moneys worth, the earlier the more cost effective it becomes . If you get it that late if your build you've already spent so much money on wards that you could have saved. I think saving that money is worth giving up a little early level damage. Except when enemy Support does 70 more damage per spell because you decided to spend all your gold on wards. Legitimately 1 ward per back not bad at all. Enemy support may have more gold, but enemy AD gets less because you just win trades. As much as supports super good and awesome now, they still there to get AD fed, shut down enemy AD.
Chances are if they are buying AP they are probably short on wards so you can abuse that and have your jungler come in for a gank. It just depends, honestly I feel like the new items make it more about adapting to the situation as a support. Depends on the support too, some don't scale was well with a little extra AP, I'm just of the mind set that vision wins games.
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EPT
