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On January 08 2013 12:04 Inschato wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 12:01 Dusty wrote:
Thresh gains no Armor or MR per level, and gets AP for free from his passive. Interesting... I really wonder if he's actually not going to gain any armor per level. That would make him the only champion to be that way. Currently even Heimerdinger has 61 armor at level 18 (the lowest) so 18 armor at level 18 would blow that out of the water. On the other hand his passive says he gains armor and magic resist from enemies slain around him, and that might be permanent like Garen's W used to be.
I think it is permanent. Does enemies refer to creeps& champs, or just champions?
I'd actually prefer if it was creeps & champs. Makes more sense to have gradual progression rather than potential for some insane snowballing.
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On January 08 2013 12:04 Inschato wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 12:01 Dusty wrote:
Thresh gains no Armor or MR per level, and gets AP for free from his passive. Interesting... I really wonder if he's actually not going to gain any armor per level. That would make him the only champion to be that way. Currently even Heimerdinger has 61 armor at level 18 (the lowest) so 18 armor at level 18 would blow that out of the water. On the other hand his passive says he gains armor and magic resist from enemies slain around him, and that might be permanent like Garen's W used to be.
Yeah he doesn't I tested it on the PBE. 1 soul = 1 mr and armor, forgot to check how much ap it gives (I don't think it would be too crazy to assume 1 ap). So far I'm really really really unimpressed with his kit. It's boring as fuck and his Q isn't even that cool, it barely drags people. Best part of his kit is W by far, everything else blows. Something about his E just makes it feel awful to use, I dunno.
Minions sometimes drop a pile of green poo that Thresh can pick up and those give the passive bonus. Champions will always drop the green poo.
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enemies generally refer to creeps+champs, and makes a lot more sense anyway
The "dying around him" is basically the mechanic that lets him be a 0cs support, as opposed to, for example, veigar's/nasus/sion's condition that they have to actually kill the enemy.
If it was just champs, they could get away with saying "kills and assists" because how often is an enemy champ going to die near you and you don't get the assist for it
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Thresh collects the souls of dead enemies by walking near them. Souls permanently grant him Armor, Magic Resist and Ability Power.
Champions and Large Minions always drop a soul. Small minions only sometimes drop a soul.
Thresh does not gain Armor and Magic Resist per level.
Went and took that from his passive's tooltip in a PBE game I'm spectating. Based on the souls tooltip itself, there is a small amount of diminishing returns (This Thresh has 14 souls, but only getting about 13.08 armor/mres/AP from it.)
I wonder if super minions will always drop them. Could be some amusing comeback situations if you have all 3 inhibs down and tons of supers are dying around him.
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So... it's essentially Blitz Q E, with W giving shield and dash for ally?
Edit: I mean playstyle wise.
AP ratios seem too low for an AP carry. Would CC AP Tank be possible with no scaling on armor and MR?
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United States47024 Posts
On January 08 2013 11:48 VayneAuthority wrote:
that sounds like their first "troll potential" champ in a while. My guess is that he comes out very weak/balanced like trundle and nobody plays him after a couple laughs.
Trundle was very good in S1, if underplayed. By no means weak, if Jatt's performance with him meant anything.
He just got fucked by the S2 jungle changes, and again by the S3 ones.
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On January 08 2013 12:20 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 11:48 VayneAuthority wrote:
that sounds like their first "troll potential" champ in a while. My guess is that he comes out very weak/balanced like trundle and nobody plays him after a couple laughs. Trundle was very good in S1, if underplayed. By no means weak, if Jatt's performance with him meant anything. He just got fucked by the S2 jungle changes, and again by the S3 ones.
He was also screwed by armor and magic resist shred not working against baron or dragon.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 08 2013 12:12 Inschato wrote:
Champions and Large Minions always drop a soul. Small minions only sometimes drop a soul.
So basically you always want to be around when Blue/Red die?
If an enemy team kills a buff/baron/dragon do you "leech" the soul even though your team didn't get the kill?
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Swiftness boots + alacrity upgrade. New meta
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wow, thresh is actually really interesting. I'm very surprised that riot is releasing him, although he does look like he's gonna be stuck in a support role with the lack of jungle skills, weak ap ratios, poor range.
also I'm pretty sure the posted health stats are wrong because he would have 636 health at level one, which would be absurd. They also gave incorrect numbers for rivens health so i'm just guessing its a mistake.
the lantern toss is an absurdly good ability with the range it has, but there are totally some really trolly aspects remaining like your full health teammate taking the lantern you need to escape with. What you also have to realize is that it gives his Ad flash as long as he has flash. You can drop lantern and flash a wall, which then allows your ad to follow you, or drop lantern and flash at someone which essentially gives your jungle or ad like a 900 range instant gap closer.
his kit is jut nuuuuuts though, that pull is longer than blitzes, plus you can pull to them, and although it pulls slower/shorter than blitz, it also acts as a 1.5 second stun even at point blank range, so its better than blitzes hook in a tight fight. AOE slow and displacement? crazy. There is also some real kill potential in lane with that ult: Lay down ult, they walk through one wall and are hugely slowed, land easy hook and pull them through another wall, then sweep them through a third wall. Its like 6 seconds of stun and 50+% slow with huge damage attached.
I see nothing in his kit that makes me think he could jungle with any success.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 08 2013 12:10 Dusty wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 12:04 Inschato wrote:On January 08 2013 12:01 Dusty wrote:
Thresh gains no Armor or MR per level, and gets AP for free from his passive. Interesting... I really wonder if he's actually not going to gain any armor per level. That would make him the only champion to be that way. Currently even Heimerdinger has 61 armor at level 18 (the lowest) so 18 armor at level 18 would blow that out of the water. On the other hand his passive says he gains armor and magic resist from enemies slain around him, and that might be permanent like Garen's W used to be. Yeah he doesn't I tested it on the PBE. 1 soul = 1 mr and armor, forgot to check how much ap it gives (I don't think it would be too crazy to assume 1 ap). So far I'm really really really unimpressed with his kit. It's boring as fuck and his Q isn't even that cool, it barely drags people. Best part of his kit is W by far, everything else blows. Something about his E just makes it feel awful to use, I dunno. Minions sometimes drop a pile of green poo that Thresh can pick up and those give the passive bonus. Champions will always drop the green poo.
I think he needs some QoL buffs in terms of his animations and what not but I think his kit has a lot of potential. Riot described him as similar to Leona which I can see. His Q isn't supposed to be as powerful as a Blitz hook, plus it gives the option of jumping on the enemy a la Lee Sin Q which opens up some options. His E is kind of awkward but I think it's because there's never been a skill shot like it, gotta pay attention to whether it lines up and if you want to push or pull the enemy. I think it's one of those things people would get used to after playing him for a while. I think we could see him both top or support, maybe jungle if his clear time is fast, couldn't check before Riot put the player cap on the PBE
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New champ looks alot like Naut, or at least fill a similar role as him. And btw his health regen is sick at level 1 lol, ironic after they just nerfed rivens health regn because it was abnormally high.
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If there's one thing he taught me, though, it's that Riot's lore department is really uninspired when it comes to the Shadow Isles. 
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Did Riot nerf the cast range on Corki's Q or animation?... Feels clunky as fuck all of a sudden
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Jungling will not work on him at all. His E is on a short enough CD, but his damage even with a little AP is abysmal. All of his damage essentially comes from his crazy as fuck passive and ult, and honestly as a support he looks like will absolutely trash on everyone. (Numbers and PBE changes pending, obv)
Ranged attack with extra crazy magic damage every 5-6 secs (to let the damage ramp up)?
Check.
Two displacement abilities?
Check.
Stun, knockup, uberslow?
Check.
Decent shield and INSANE utility with portable wardjump?
Check.
Funny thing bout him is it seems his ult is probably WORSE in big teamfights than it seems, since you'd essentially have to not only kill yourself to get it off, but it also leaves room for a lot of enemy counterplay in terms of using tanks as 'wall-breakers' and whatnot.
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United States23745 Posts
On January 08 2013 12:49 Alaric wrote:If there's one thing he taught me, though, it's that Riot's lore department is really uninspired when it comes to the Shadow Isles.
I thought Riot fired their lore team and that's why the Journal of Justice stopped updating?
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Oh and to clarify, you essentially max out at 100 souls, which have a chance to drop from every minion, with a 100% chance to drop from champs and siege minions.
This is because the first soul grants you 1 armor/MR/AP, the second grants you 0.99, the third 0.98, etc.
And yeah his animations do feel real clunky and his E is awkward as a motherfucker to use.
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Ok, I went on to the PBE and tried Thresh out in a botgame, just to see how he plays. Let me say this: Thresh is 100% a support. There is no doubt about it. Here is a rundown on his skills and how they play out.
Passive: He has no armour or MR scaling, but gains AP, MR and Armour from the souls he collects. Souls drop100% from cannon minions and champions, and randomly from small minions. I did not test if they drop from jungle monsters/Baron/Dragon. The souls have a diminishing return per each soul you pick up. I.E. Soul 1 give 1 AP/MR/AR, Soul 2 gives .98, Soul 3 .96 ETC ETC those are not the actual numbers, I just made those up, but the idea is the same, it starts at ~1 per soul and then decreases from there. When a soul drops there is a noise (kind of like a ghost wail/groan) and you can see the teal coloured wisp soul things floating around. You have to walk over to the souls to collect them, and you have to get quite close to them to do so, approximately melee range. This could be quite annoying when your AD causes a soul to drop but you can't get to it because you're being zoned.
Q: This skill has a hook/drag + gap closer activate portion and a passive +magic damage on auto attack.
You throw out the Q, and you hit an enemy. It does a low amount of magic damage and then pulls them about 250~ units toward you. They stop for a second and then they are pulled about another 250 units toward you, the hook then detaches. At any time once the hook has landed, you can jump to them Lee Sin Q style. The placeholder icon is actually the Lee Sin Q kick!
The passive magic damage has a damage range based: skill level, number of souls collected and time since last auto attack, and finally maxes out at 200% of your autoattack damage. This can make Thresh a pretty good auto attack harasser, as it'll charge up while you do nothing, and then allows you to sneak of a extra high damage auto.
W: Since I was doing a solo bot game, I didn't get to really test this ability out or its interaction with teammates.
E: A really strange skill. It is quite narrow, only about the width of Thresh's character model, maybe slightly bigger, and the range isn't particularly long either. It does either a knockback or slight pull with a small short duration slow attached to it (30%, 2~ seconds). You either cast it while facing toward an enemy to push them back away from, or do the oppsite, turning your back on the enemy and then drawing them toward you.
I found this skill really strange, and frustrating to use. Because of its limited range and clunky cast time, I found it annoying hard to to land properly unless you are partically in melee range, otherwise your target will just walk out of range before the cast time/animation goes off.
R: Forms a short range 5 sided wall around Thresh, the range is not very large, maybe only 350~ units. Enemies who run into the wall take damage and get a 99% slow for a few seconds. Not a terrible ultimate, but you really need to combo it well with all of his other skills to get the most out of it.
How to play: Probably something like a R>Q>E>W or R>Q>W>E depending on how useful a leveled W is.
Comob: Q your target, wait for the drags to finish, activate Q to jump, quickly cast E to bring them further from their tower/closer to your AD. Add in your ult when 6. W could be used to have your AD gapclose if they are too far away.
Otherwise you charge up your passive Q auto damage and try to auto when its fully charged as harass.
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Man he is going to support ganks so well, just imagine how terrifying its gonna be to have like nautilus fucking zipping into your lane from 975 range with lantern 0_0
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United States47024 Posts
My gut instinct tells me he should be played as a roaming support (strong gank but no way to easily jungle, can clean up a few lingering souls whenever he passes through a lane--which probably gets him more souls than if he just sat bottom lane the whole time, plus gets a guaranteed soul from helping the jungler finish buffs), but I don't know how much room there is in the game for that.
At the very least, if they had that in mind, they should give him higher base MS.
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EPT
