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On October 18 2012 21:50 kongoline wrote:
yea i remember people claiming that nerf to atmas wasnt big and it still will be used, look at it now
The stats on it were awkward even before the nerf, but it was decently efficient when everyone and their mother was building Warmog's so it made sense. Now there are so many more AD casters that the stats look even MORE awkward when you're getting no use from the crit and the damage becoems less worth it.
I would still build it on a few champs depending on your build path and enemy team comp. GP, for example.
Ah... Level 8 was usually when I was able to afford DFG :/
So you literally rushed DFG before anything else? No Drings or boots 2? 'Cause otherwise I call bullshit, and even then your farming would have to be pretty damn perfect. If necessary I'll bring up the math but ugh.
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Love the new skins. Heca one is epic!
Really hope the trundle buff stays... now all he needs is a new skin and i'm happy!
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How the hell is DFG dead? It won't be a first item anymore, fine. But as soon as you hit Void Staff + Deathcap, DFG is going to look really good.
Not like you need the CDR on it so much anyways. It's for burst casters. Who cares about CDR if your enemy is dead?
It's about time they cut down on the CDR sources for AP casters anyways. You always had max CDR no matter what your build path was.
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On October 18 2012 21:10 Bladeorade wrote:
.01% nerfs it in half...
it is pretty big to nerf something to 50% of its former ability power.
DFG being 15% base with 5% every 100AP kills Eve's burst as well.
Her level 8 burst went from 40%+ in 2 clicks to 30%+ in 2 clicks.
at level 16 she will still have good burst assuming Dcap and Abyssal but early on it will be much harder to gib something.
Which is a change I agree with
Got my first bugsplat... and it wont go away.
Cannot load the game AWESOME
So 300 AP brings you up to 30%
500 ap to 40%. It looks like a stronger late game item.
LoL is a game that nerfs anything fotm. DFG used to be considered a horrible item back when deathcap was considered everything and ezrael was considered triforce only and one of the worst ADs in the game.
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On October 18 2012 21:58 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 21:50 kongoline wrote:
yea i remember people claiming that nerf to atmas wasnt big and it still will be used, look at it now The stats on it were awkward even before the nerf, but it was decently efficient when everyone and their mother was building Warmog's so it made sense. Now there are so many more AD casters that the stats look even MORE awkward when you're getting no use from the crit and the damage becoems less worth it. I would still build it on a few champs depending on your build path and enemy team comp. GP, for example. So you literally rushed DFG before anything else? No Drings or boots 2? 'Cause otherwise I call bullshit, and even then your farming would have to be pretty damn perfect. If necessary I'll bring up the math but ugh.
Yes... Literally first.
Boots + 3 into Kages into DFG
This is what I saw on many high level streams so I copied it and it works very well. You get DFG around level 8 and pretty much get a guaranteed kill. I am trying to remember not getting a kill when I first get DFG but I cannot.
I am not exaggerating or making it up its just what I usually saw and what I do myself.
On October 18 2012 22:30 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 21:10 Bladeorade wrote:
.01% nerfs it in half...
it is pretty big to nerf something to 50% of its former ability power.
DFG being 15% base with 5% every 100AP kills Eve's burst as well.
Her level 8 burst went from 40%+ in 2 clicks to 30%+ in 2 clicks.
at level 16 she will still have good burst assuming Dcap and Abyssal but early on it will be much harder to gib something.
Which is a change I agree with
Got my first bugsplat... and it wont go away.
Cannot load the game AWESOME So 300 AP brings you up to 30% 500 ap to 40%. It looks like a stronger late game item. LoL is a game that nerfs anything fotm. DFG used to be considered a horrible item back when deathcap was considered everything and ezrael was considered triforce only and one of the worst ADs in the game.
Thats why I said at level 16 it will still be good.
It also is no way a stronger late game item... 25% + 4% per 100 vs 15% + 5% per 100?
500 ap currently brings you to 45% you would need to have 1000 AP to break even with the current dfg.
The break even point is impossible to reach unless you are Veigar. or stack archangels.
They nerfed it too hard, should have done 20% + 5% instead.
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On October 18 2012 22:30 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 21:10 Bladeorade wrote:
.01% nerfs it in half...
it is pretty big to nerf something to 50% of its former ability power.
DFG being 15% base with 5% every 100AP kills Eve's burst as well.
Her level 8 burst went from 40%+ in 2 clicks to 30%+ in 2 clicks.
at level 16 she will still have good burst assuming Dcap and Abyssal but early on it will be much harder to gib something.
Which is a change I agree with
Got my first bugsplat... and it wont go away.
Cannot load the game AWESOME So 300 AP brings you up to 30% 500 ap to 40%. It looks like a stronger late game item. LoL is a game that nerfs anything fotm. DFG used to be considered a horrible item back when deathcap was considered everything and ezrael was considered triforce only and one of the worst ADs in the game.
DFG was buffed quite a bit. Giving it 150 more range moved the item from a niche pickup for veigar to being able to be used seamlessly in almost any mage's combo.
I do agree though that riot does patch too quickly and them being against the game evolving past anything they haven't planned is terrible.
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On October 18 2012 22:51 Bwaaaa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 22:30 obesechicken13 wrote:On October 18 2012 21:10 Bladeorade wrote:
.01% nerfs it in half...
it is pretty big to nerf something to 50% of its former ability power.
DFG being 15% base with 5% every 100AP kills Eve's burst as well.
Her level 8 burst went from 40%+ in 2 clicks to 30%+ in 2 clicks.
at level 16 she will still have good burst assuming Dcap and Abyssal but early on it will be much harder to gib something.
Which is a change I agree with
Got my first bugsplat... and it wont go away.
Cannot load the game AWESOME So 300 AP brings you up to 30% 500 ap to 40%. It looks like a stronger late game item. LoL is a game that nerfs anything fotm. DFG used to be considered a horrible item back when deathcap was considered everything and ezrael was considered triforce only and one of the worst ADs in the game. DFG was buffed quite a bit. Giving it 150 more range moved the item from a niche pickup for veigar to being able to be used seamlessly in almost any mage's combo. I do agree though that riot does patch too quickly and them being against the game evolving past anything they haven't planned is terrible though.
The main point is that nerfing both the CDR and the damage might be a bit too much. Especially considering the popularity of Grail, which already is the bread and butter on a few casters, but will be all but mandatory on every single mana using one after the patch. Riot should have left the CDR alone and just dialed the damage active down a notch, or removed the CDR and not touch the damage at all.
I don't think it's going to be all out useless, but DFG rushes on mids made laning a lot more exciting, giving you and your opponent more room for solo kills. I really don't want to go back to Dring stacking/RoA rushing farmfests.
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New TT is better than old TT.
Not that it was hard to be, but still.
The cap points are obviously a turn-off. They are too easy to steal when you have even a tiny advantage, and subsequently, too easy to keep for the locked time afterwards.
It's fine that they are trying to create points of contention in the mid jungle, but this is not really how I'd do it.
The speedbuff point in the middle is also silly.
But the new caster items for TT are pretty good for the gamemode imo. A lot cheaper than the SR items, so now APs can acutally buy items, and maybe hope to be viable (we'll see about that)
I'm not sure how jungling/ganking will turn out, but my bet is, not too well. With removal of the top jungle, all ganks are guaranteed to come from mid jungle, so it's pretty easy to avoid them in the toplane.
All that is after just a single game on PBE, so chances are, my team/the enemy team was just too bad to do it right, and I have no idea what I'm talking about (one game best sample size eva)
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I think Ez will still be fine. While he can't stand and trade with everyone by crippling their AS boost, he still has really good burst, high range poke, and mobility. And his passive is nothing to sneeze at if you manage it right. He's not going to be the king AD anymore (probably), but likely back to where he was when people were maxing R>Q>E>W: strong, and good if you could play him, but not the "pick in every situation and win" champ.
And I hope that AD caster item makes it's way into SR, srs.
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On October 18 2012 22:55 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 22:51 Bwaaaa wrote:On October 18 2012 22:30 obesechicken13 wrote:On October 18 2012 21:10 Bladeorade wrote:
.01% nerfs it in half...
it is pretty big to nerf something to 50% of its former ability power.
DFG being 15% base with 5% every 100AP kills Eve's burst as well.
Her level 8 burst went from 40%+ in 2 clicks to 30%+ in 2 clicks.
at level 16 she will still have good burst assuming Dcap and Abyssal but early on it will be much harder to gib something.
Which is a change I agree with
Got my first bugsplat... and it wont go away.
Cannot load the game AWESOME So 300 AP brings you up to 30% 500 ap to 40%. It looks like a stronger late game item. LoL is a game that nerfs anything fotm. DFG used to be considered a horrible item back when deathcap was considered everything and ezrael was considered triforce only and one of the worst ADs in the game. DFG was buffed quite a bit. Giving it 150 more range moved the item from a niche pickup for veigar to being able to be used seamlessly in almost any mage's combo. I do agree though that riot does patch too quickly and them being against the game evolving past anything they haven't planned is terrible though. The main point is that nerfing both the CDR and the damage might be a bit too much. Especially considering the popularity of Grail, which already is the bread and butter on a few casters, but will be all but mandatory on every single mana using one after the patch. Riot should have left the CDR alone and just dialed the damage active down a notch, or removed the CDR and not touch the damage at all. I don't think it's going to be all out useless, but DFG rushes on mids made laning a lot more exciting, giving you and your opponent more room for solo kills. I really don't want to go back to Dring stacking/RoA rushing farmfests.
Still a good early pickup for many current AP mids imo (ie Eve, Kat, LB, Diana? probably others but too lazy to think) and still a good lategame item if you want/need the single-target burst (Veigar, Fizz, Ahri? Gragas? Kass?). I do agree with the nerf being a little heavy-handed; it was way too good for its price before, but it is far from useless now.
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God damm That fiora skin. All of the skins are pretty good I think. Hec saying suffering is magic in reference to friendship is magic is pretty lolzy. zombie brand getting really afraid when hes on fire. Underworld tf just looks really cool.
Plus I always thought phage and trit force had lower slows for ranged attacks kinda like for aoe and single target spells for ap users.
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On October 18 2012 23:11 Sermokala wrote:
God damm That fiora skin. All of the skins are pretty good I think. Hec saying suffering is magic in reference to friendship is magic is pretty lolzy. zombie brand getting really afraid when hes on fire. Underworld tf just looks really cool.
Plus I always thought phage and trit force had lower slows for ranged attacks kinda like for aoe and single target spells for ap users. That is for Frozen Mallet before the change. (40% melee, 30% ranged)
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If I say I'll play anything I get support almost every single time. I don't hate support or anything but refraining from cs'ing or doing any damage 19 out of 20 games gets pretty dull. What do?
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On October 18 2012 23:17 Hyren wrote:
If I say I'll play anything I get support almost every single time. I don't hate support or anything but refraining from cs'ing or doing any damage 19 out of 20 games gets pretty dull. What do?
I mean, you could call a role when you get tired of support...
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If you're not last pick, just take what you want when it's your turn. If they bitch, just say "pick order > call order" and move on with your life.
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On October 18 2012 23:17 Hyren wrote:
If I say I'll play anything I get support almost every single time. I don't hate support or anything but refraining from cs'ing or doing any damage 19 out of 20 games gets pretty dull. What do?
Play Leona.
I went 4/0/something with her once without even trying to get kills and i once got a doublekill after my carry died and i'm just a horrible player. Most OP support ever :p
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On October 18 2012 23:32 Morfildur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 23:17 Hyren wrote:
If I say I'll play anything I get support almost every single time. I don't hate support or anything but refraining from cs'ing or doing any damage 19 out of 20 games gets pretty dull. What do? Play Leona. I went 4/0/something with her once without even trying to get kills and i once got a doublekill after my carry died and i'm just a horrible player. Most OP support ever :p
Sona is way more KS heavy than Leona imo.
Q powerchord steal kills erryday.
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On October 18 2012 22:42 Bladeorade wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 22:30 obesechicken13 wrote:On October 18 2012 21:10 Bladeorade wrote:
.01% nerfs it in half...
it is pretty big to nerf something to 50% of its former ability power.
DFG being 15% base with 5% every 100AP kills Eve's burst as well.
Her level 8 burst went from 40%+ in 2 clicks to 30%+ in 2 clicks.
at level 16 she will still have good burst assuming Dcap and Abyssal but early on it will be much harder to gib something.
Which is a change I agree with
Got my first bugsplat... and it wont go away.
Cannot load the game AWESOME So 300 AP brings you up to 30% 500 ap to 40%. It looks like a stronger late game item. LoL is a game that nerfs anything fotm. DFG used to be considered a horrible item back when deathcap was considered everything and ezrael was considered triforce only and one of the worst ADs in the game. Thats why I said at level 16 it will still be good. It also is no way a stronger late game item... 25% + 4% per 100 vs 15% + 5% per 100? 500 ap currently brings you to 45% you would need to have 1000 AP to break even with the current dfg. The break even point is impossible to reach unless you are Veigar. or stack archangels. They nerfed it too hard, should have done 20% + 5% instead.
Well that's pretty bad.
It used to be 30+3.5% back when I started playing. These two nerfs to 15+5% still have that 1000AP breakpoint assuming you use DFG on a high health target so you're not doing DFG's min damage and I don't feel the range buff is enough to compensate. I hate it when someone gets away with a sliver of health and with old dfg I'd have gibbed them.
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On October 18 2012 23:28 Requizen wrote:
If you're not last pick, just take what you want when it's your turn. If they bitch, just say "pick order > call order" and move on with your life.
Doesn't work for me. Everytime I do that they just say they will troll, and if noyone dodges queue they really do fucking troll. So I just end up wasting 20 minutes.
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Slight typo on the patch notes, rengar's emp. Q got nerfed, it's down to 100% from 150%
Sona's base armor got buffed but her level 1-3 is going to be dangerous as hell. She takes one less autoattack to kill early on in the game and that's huge. She's going from 450 health at level 1 to 410, she'll have the lowest base health of any character in the game. She's fragile to begin with and she's just getting squishier. Dislike.
Eve nerf: Expected,
Irelia buff: What? Easier to clear the entire minion wave when it's still a line I guess? Not sure what the change was for
New items:
Blackfire Torch: Ryze/Karthus/cassiopeia are going to have a field day with this if it's a summoner's rift item. %max health on spell damage is ridiculous. Probably builds out of a catalyst as well.
Lord Van Damm's Pillager: +40 Attack Damage +350 Health UNIQUE Passive: +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive: +25 Armor Penetration UNIQUE Passive: +15% Spell Vamp Cost: 3104
Judging by the cost is a brutalizer upgrade. Gives health+spellvamp, two stats that're actually really good on AD casters, alternative to a BT I guess. It might need a bit more base AD to really shine though.
Soulsight Lantern: Instead of a ward, you get stealth detection on a 1 minute cooldown. It might make toplaners want to build wriggles again?
Wooglet's Witchcap: Interesting, trade ~80+5% AP for 10% MS. Pretty decent tradeoff.
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EPT
