• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:26
CET 12:26
KST 20:26
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship2[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage1Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win62025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!10
StarCraft 2
General
RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting RSL S3 Round of 16 [TLCH] Mission 7: Last Stand Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4 WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ RSL S3 ro16
Tourneys
BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION [ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Dating: How's your luck? Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Career Paths and Skills for …
TrAiDoS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1183 users

[Patch 1.0.0.148: Kha'Zix] General Discussion - Page 190

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 188 189 190 191 192 200 Next
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11620 Posts
October 16 2012 17:10 GMT
#3781
Well, yes, but one should still use it once one is forced to put levels into it. Which is pretty hard to remember when one does not use it at all during the rest of the game, because it is a waste of skillpoints. But after level 12 in a situation where you are not pressed for mana, there is no reason not to use it.
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
October 16 2012 17:16 GMT
#3782
By the time I actually have pts in E (lvl 13+) I never actually do anything with skills. Just flash reverie ult and then the guy is dead.

If you're mopping up a teamfight, you never press E either because it has cast time and you want to keep up Q.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
sylverfyre
Profile Joined May 2010
United States8298 Posts
October 16 2012 17:40 GMT
#3783
On October 17 2012 01:54 MooMooMugi wrote:
You never rank up a early point of E because its
A. its mana cost is so high
B. barely does any damage for its mana cost, Q is always better
C.barely heals you

The only time E is ever good early game is for sniping someone <30hp during a gank, very satisfying

But even then, sometimes those times that E would net a kill, would an extra point in shield give you the MS or shield strength to chase harder / apply permaslow better / keep shield up longer to ALSO net the kill, while being better for your jungle?

Skarner doesn't have an E. I refuse to admit it exists.
Sandster
Profile Joined November 2006
United States4054 Posts
October 16 2012 17:42 GMT
#3784
On October 17 2012 02:03 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 01:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:
On October 17 2012 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 17 2012 00:40 Simberto wrote:
On October 17 2012 00:29 Zdrastochye wrote:
On October 17 2012 00:17 Simberto wrote:
On October 16 2012 23:53 barbsq wrote:
On October 16 2012 23:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 16 2012 23:01 barbsq wrote:
having better mechanics significantly complements good gamesense, so I would never say that you should ignore your mechanics. I think it's true tho, that good gamesense with poor mechanics will beat poor gamesense with good mechanics for the most part.

Not entirely sure I agree with you, Sir Bear.
I would argue that my gamesense is pretty decent (I would say higher than my current elo would let on, but that opens up a whole other elo hell can o' worms, amirite?) but my mechanics are just godawful. I panic in teamfights, misclick and hit the wrong keys constantly (my 5s team yesterday can attest to it) and still tend to miss last hits and such way more often than I should.
Obviously I still make dumb mistakes as I am a bad player overall, but I think a lot of the time my calls ingame are good ones and I don't tend to be caught my obvious baits/gank attempts very often. I feel like if I had good mechanics but crappy gamesense I'd win lane much more often (though get ganked a lot more) and be able to snowball from there more often when the jungler fails to help my laning opponent.

(Disclaimer: I am aware how self-biased this post sounds; it's just how I feel about my own skill level. I don't think I'm good at the game by any means, and I know that any decent player can show just how big of a failure I am at gamesense/mechanics/any aspect of the game I think I'm good at.)

Idk, i think if there were a player whos gamesense was as poor as your description of mechanics that would be a serious handicap. If there were a player whos skillset were the exact opposite of yours, I feel like i would much rather not have that person. I guess if your mechanics are actively interfering with how you play the game, then your gamesense has to be really damn good to make up for it (i don't have enough experience playing with you to know where you stand). In terms of improvement tho, i guess someone who's mechanically sound just needs someone to tell them what to do, whereas someone who has solid gamesense needs a lot more active practice to be able to get up to par.

edit: to clarify a bit, this kind of person i would imagine constantly face-checking brushes, pushing to tier2 tower without wards, consistently engaging in losing battles (eg 4v5, 3v5, 3v4, etc), but still has decent mechanics and doesn't missclick and hits the majority of skillshots. I feel like that kind of person would be infuriating to play with.


The sad thing is, those guys exist on masse. And they will always blame someone else. They engage 4v5, blame the person that is not there. They overextend way too much, blame the guy who "did not call ss". The other extreme is strange, too, because they know what to do, but don't have any money or can't make it work because of a lack of mechanics. Most people are somewhere in between.

Also, i'd say it is exactly the opposite way around. Mechanics are rather easy to practice, gamesense it not. You can only get gamesense by playing lots and lots of games, AND being aware what is going on during all this time. You probably also need to watch a lot of replays, and then remember what you thought at a specific point in game, and if that was right or wrong. And THEN you need to find out if you can generalize that. Sure, someone who play with you and calls all the shots is a bandaid fix, but that does only work as long as that guy is with you. If you want to practice mechanics, just grab someone and 1v1 lane him for a few hours. Most basic mechanics like lasthitting can even be practiced against bots pretty easily.

Also, it is pretty easy to test if your gamesense is actually good. Just play jungle. Jungling is about 90% gamesense, mechanics are largely irrelevant. Especially if you play someone like skarner, who doesn't even have any skillshots.


His E.


Oh, yes, i actually forgot that exists. And i play a lot of skarner.

Holy shit...this just made me realize in the two beastly ranked games I played recently as Skarner (and carried pretty well I think) I don't think I used a single E.
Does that fit under bad mechanics or gamesense? I think mechanics honestly. Same thing that makes me forget active abilities and such.

PS. Bear the type of people you described as being infuriating to play with? I play with those people every god damn game.
Edit: In fact, I'm probably one of them in some respects.

It's called subconsciously knowing how to play Skarner.

I think Skarnold calls it a useless ability you shouldn't rank up until you're forced to.

Every time I see a player pick E as skarner i know I will have a tough game with a useless jungler -.-


This. So much. People should just not put a point in E even at 13 so they don't accidentally press it later on.
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
October 16 2012 17:43 GMT
#3785
On October 17 2012 02:16 xes wrote:
By the time I actually have pts in E (lvl 13+) I never actually do anything with skills. Just flash reverie ult and then the guy is dead.

If you're mopping up a teamfight, you never press E either because it has cast time and you want to keep up Q.

Yeah I'm not so sure about that.
1v1ing a Yorick on multiple occasions, I feel that some extra sustain would definitely have helped in some of those situations (post-12, I was recently instructed not to level E before that so I was aware).

Just going to chalk it up to me being a baddie.

Now in terms of other junglers and what to level, and a champion that requires really good mechanics AND gamesense (and hence why I'll never be good at him)----Lee Sin.

I've heard max Q first, max W for better sustain...hell I've heard max E for cam clearing and OP slow. Most of all it seems to me like he's supposed to be really flexible and you level up what you need? I don't know. All I know is, too many jumps, too many skillshots, too many autoattack passive procs/energy to manage means I sucks.
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-16 17:56:52
October 16 2012 17:56 GMT
#3786
I think E at the higher spell levels in underrated, just because of how rare you get it ranked up and how rare the situations where your active DPS status matters a lot.
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
October 16 2012 18:15 GMT
#3787
On October 17 2012 02:42 Sandster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 02:03 WhiteDog wrote:
On October 17 2012 01:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:
On October 17 2012 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 17 2012 00:40 Simberto wrote:
On October 17 2012 00:29 Zdrastochye wrote:
On October 17 2012 00:17 Simberto wrote:
On October 16 2012 23:53 barbsq wrote:
On October 16 2012 23:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
On October 16 2012 23:01 barbsq wrote:
having better mechanics significantly complements good gamesense, so I would never say that you should ignore your mechanics. I think it's true tho, that good gamesense with poor mechanics will beat poor gamesense with good mechanics for the most part.

Not entirely sure I agree with you, Sir Bear.
I would argue that my gamesense is pretty decent (I would say higher than my current elo would let on, but that opens up a whole other elo hell can o' worms, amirite?) but my mechanics are just godawful. I panic in teamfights, misclick and hit the wrong keys constantly (my 5s team yesterday can attest to it) and still tend to miss last hits and such way more often than I should.
Obviously I still make dumb mistakes as I am a bad player overall, but I think a lot of the time my calls ingame are good ones and I don't tend to be caught my obvious baits/gank attempts very often. I feel like if I had good mechanics but crappy gamesense I'd win lane much more often (though get ganked a lot more) and be able to snowball from there more often when the jungler fails to help my laning opponent.

(Disclaimer: I am aware how self-biased this post sounds; it's just how I feel about my own skill level. I don't think I'm good at the game by any means, and I know that any decent player can show just how big of a failure I am at gamesense/mechanics/any aspect of the game I think I'm good at.)

Idk, i think if there were a player whos gamesense was as poor as your description of mechanics that would be a serious handicap. If there were a player whos skillset were the exact opposite of yours, I feel like i would much rather not have that person. I guess if your mechanics are actively interfering with how you play the game, then your gamesense has to be really damn good to make up for it (i don't have enough experience playing with you to know where you stand). In terms of improvement tho, i guess someone who's mechanically sound just needs someone to tell them what to do, whereas someone who has solid gamesense needs a lot more active practice to be able to get up to par.

edit: to clarify a bit, this kind of person i would imagine constantly face-checking brushes, pushing to tier2 tower without wards, consistently engaging in losing battles (eg 4v5, 3v5, 3v4, etc), but still has decent mechanics and doesn't missclick and hits the majority of skillshots. I feel like that kind of person would be infuriating to play with.


The sad thing is, those guys exist on masse. And they will always blame someone else. They engage 4v5, blame the person that is not there. They overextend way too much, blame the guy who "did not call ss". The other extreme is strange, too, because they know what to do, but don't have any money or can't make it work because of a lack of mechanics. Most people are somewhere in between.

Also, i'd say it is exactly the opposite way around. Mechanics are rather easy to practice, gamesense it not. You can only get gamesense by playing lots and lots of games, AND being aware what is going on during all this time. You probably also need to watch a lot of replays, and then remember what you thought at a specific point in game, and if that was right or wrong. And THEN you need to find out if you can generalize that. Sure, someone who play with you and calls all the shots is a bandaid fix, but that does only work as long as that guy is with you. If you want to practice mechanics, just grab someone and 1v1 lane him for a few hours. Most basic mechanics like lasthitting can even be practiced against bots pretty easily.

Also, it is pretty easy to test if your gamesense is actually good. Just play jungle. Jungling is about 90% gamesense, mechanics are largely irrelevant. Especially if you play someone like skarner, who doesn't even have any skillshots.


His E.


Oh, yes, i actually forgot that exists. And i play a lot of skarner.

Holy shit...this just made me realize in the two beastly ranked games I played recently as Skarner (and carried pretty well I think) I don't think I used a single E.
Does that fit under bad mechanics or gamesense? I think mechanics honestly. Same thing that makes me forget active abilities and such.

PS. Bear the type of people you described as being infuriating to play with? I play with those people every god damn game.
Edit: In fact, I'm probably one of them in some respects.

It's called subconsciously knowing how to play Skarner.

I think Skarnold calls it a useless ability you shouldn't rank up until you're forced to.

Every time I see a player pick E as skarner i know I will have a tough game with a useless jungler -.-


This. So much. People should just not put a point in E even at 13 so they don't accidentally press it later on.


Hopping on the circlejerk here; every time I see a bad skarner he has an early point in E.
Vaporized
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1471 Posts
October 16 2012 18:24 GMT
#3788
im 72-37 with skarner in ranked. i take e at lvl 2. every game.
Zess
Profile Joined July 2012
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-16 18:28:25
October 16 2012 18:27 GMT
#3789
On October 17 2012 03:24 Vaporized wrote:
im 72-37 with skarner in ranked. i take e at lvl 2. every game.

W shields more than the max possible healing of E. On the first clear with blue, taking E feels like it keeps up your HP better but that's mostly just perception. I've actually tested it because Skarnold's guide says E is crap and when I accidentally took E at lvl 2 instead of W it felt pretty ok but then I redid the clear with W and ended up with more HP at the end.
Administrator@TL_Zess
| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Vaporized
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1471 Posts
October 16 2012 18:29 GMT
#3790
On October 17 2012 03:27 xes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 03:24 Vaporized wrote:
im 72-37 with skarner in ranked. i take e at lvl 2. every game.

W shields more than the max possible healing of E. On the first clear with blue, taking E feels like it keeps up your HP better but that's mostly just perception. I've actually tested it because Skarnold's guide says E is crap and when I accidentally took E at lvl 2 instead of W it felt pretty ok but then I redid the clear with W and ended up with more HP at the end.

alright ill try that next time i play skarner which is all the time.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
October 16 2012 18:30 GMT
#3791
On October 17 2012 03:24 Vaporized wrote:
im 72-37 with skarner in ranked. i take e at lvl 2. every game.


at what elo
Mementoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada2595 Posts
October 16 2012 18:33 GMT
#3792
I started teaching my gf how to play LoL. She likes kog maw because I call his E the barf carpet lol. Any tips on teaching new players how to play?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu96xMwFVXw
Slayer91
Profile Joined February 2006
Ireland23335 Posts
October 16 2012 18:33 GMT
#3793
You guys act like getting E on skarner is like throwing the game and showing your true colours as a complete retard when really it makes a minimal effect on the game it's just an optimization not to get it.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
October 16 2012 18:35 GMT
#3794
i think its pretty important not to get it at early levels
Zdrastochye
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
October 16 2012 18:38 GMT
#3795
On October 17 2012 03:33 Slayer91 wrote:
You guys act like getting E on skarner is like throwing the game and showing your true colours as a complete retard when really it makes a minimal effect on the game it's just an optimization not to get it.


You act like playing non-optimally is acceptable for us elitists at TL.

(Sarcasm)
Hey! How you doin'?
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
October 16 2012 18:39 GMT
#3796
E has very niche uses, none of which show up very frequently in real games
i skip it til 13 in 99% of games
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
October 16 2012 18:40 GMT
#3797
On October 17 2012 03:38 Zdrastochye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 17 2012 03:33 Slayer91 wrote:
You guys act like getting E on skarner is like throwing the game and showing your true colours as a complete retard when really it makes a minimal effect on the game it's just an optimization not to get it.


You act like playing non-optimally is acceptable for us elitists at TL.

(Sarcasm)

It's similar to the way how big of an impact everyone here weighs item builds as a form of playing optimally. More often than not, just executing character mechanics has a far bigger impact than super optimal play.
liftlift > tsm
tobi9999
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1966 Posts
October 16 2012 18:52 GMT
#3798
why does everyone hate e so much man
the only real problem I see with it is that it's a waste of mana. But, if your mid doesn't need blue buff, why not get a point and use it a bit lol.
"tobi is ur iq 9999? cuz i think it might be u so smart wowowow." -Artosis
kainzero
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States5211 Posts
October 16 2012 18:56 GMT
#3799
On October 17 2012 03:40 wei2coolman wrote:
It's similar to the way how big of an impact everyone here weighs item builds as a form of playing optimally. More often than not, just executing character mechanics has a far bigger impact than super optimal play.

should i get AD runes or armor pen runes?


the answer is stop feeding
Hakanfrog
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden690 Posts
October 16 2012 18:57 GMT
#3800
Would be interesting to level it first to get a better realization of what it actually does. Everytime I get it now it´s like I use it once at level 13 then forget about it, maybe it´s not that trash after all.
Prev 1 188 189 190 191 192 200 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
Crank Gathers S2: Playoffs D4
CranKy Ducklings155
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Livibee 72
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 13149
Rain 8479
Bisu 1901
Pusan 430
Stork 359
Last 217
Leta 139
ToSsGirL 110
Barracks 106
ZerO 85
[ Show more ]
Aegong 53
Sharp 39
zelot 32
Liquid`Ret 31
JulyZerg 24
Icarus 23
Free 16
Terrorterran 1
sas.Sziky 0
Dota 2
XcaliburYe860
Counter-Strike
x6flipin292
edward1
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King67
Other Games
summit1g15472
singsing1098
ceh9475
crisheroes248
B2W.Neo191
XaKoH 145
Pyrionflax143
Fuzer 128
SortOf68
ZerO(Twitch)3
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick640
Counter-Strike
PGL127
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 12
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 54
• LUISG 39
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2626
• Stunt777
• HappyZerGling91
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Korean Royale
35m
LAN Event
3h 35m
OSC
11h 35m
The PondCast
22h 35m
LAN Event
1d 3h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
OSC
2 days
LAN Event
2 days
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
3 days
LAN Event
3 days
IPSL
3 days
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
LAN Event
4 days
IPSL
4 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.