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Well, yes, but one should still use it once one is forced to put levels into it. Which is pretty hard to remember when one does not use it at all during the rest of the game, because it is a waste of skillpoints. But after level 12 in a situation where you are not pressed for mana, there is no reason not to use it.
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By the time I actually have pts in E (lvl 13+) I never actually do anything with skills. Just flash reverie ult and then the guy is dead.
If you're mopping up a teamfight, you never press E either because it has cast time and you want to keep up Q.
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On October 17 2012 01:54 MooMooMugi wrote:
You never rank up a early point of E because its
A. its mana cost is so high
B. barely does any damage for its mana cost, Q is always better
C.barely heals you
The only time E is ever good early game is for sniping someone <30hp during a gank, very satisfying
But even then, sometimes those times that E would net a kill, would an extra point in shield give you the MS or shield strength to chase harder / apply permaslow better / keep shield up longer to ALSO net the kill, while being better for your jungle?
Skarner doesn't have an E. I refuse to admit it exists.
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On October 17 2012 02:03 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 01:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:On October 17 2012 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 17 2012 00:40 Simberto wrote:On October 17 2012 00:29 Zdrastochye wrote:On October 17 2012 00:17 Simberto wrote:On October 16 2012 23:53 barbsq wrote:On October 16 2012 23:14 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 16 2012 23:01 barbsq wrote:
having better mechanics significantly complements good gamesense, so I would never say that you should ignore your mechanics. I think it's true tho, that good gamesense with poor mechanics will beat poor gamesense with good mechanics for the most part. Not entirely sure I agree with you, Sir Bear. I would argue that my gamesense is pretty decent (I would say higher than my current elo would let on, but that opens up a whole other elo hell can o' worms, amirite?) but my mechanics are just godawful. I panic in teamfights, misclick and hit the wrong keys constantly (my 5s team yesterday can attest to it) and still tend to miss last hits and such way more often than I should. Obviously I still make dumb mistakes as I am a bad player overall, but I think a lot of the time my calls ingame are good ones and I don't tend to be caught my obvious baits/gank attempts very often. I feel like if I had good mechanics but crappy gamesense I'd win lane much more often (though get ganked a lot more) and be able to snowball from there more often when the jungler fails to help my laning opponent. (Disclaimer: I am aware how self-biased this post sounds; it's just how I feel about my own skill level. I don't think I'm good at the game by any means, and I know that any decent player can show just how big of a failure I am at gamesense/mechanics/any aspect of the game I think I'm good at.) Idk, i think if there were a player whos gamesense was as poor as your description of mechanics that would be a serious handicap. If there were a player whos skillset were the exact opposite of yours, I feel like i would much rather not have that person. I guess if your mechanics are actively interfering with how you play the game, then your gamesense has to be really damn good to make up for it (i don't have enough experience playing with you to know where you stand). In terms of improvement tho, i guess someone who's mechanically sound just needs someone to tell them what to do, whereas someone who has solid gamesense needs a lot more active practice to be able to get up to par. edit: to clarify a bit, this kind of person i would imagine constantly face-checking brushes, pushing to tier2 tower without wards, consistently engaging in losing battles (eg 4v5, 3v5, 3v4, etc), but still has decent mechanics and doesn't missclick and hits the majority of skillshots. I feel like that kind of person would be infuriating to play with. The sad thing is, those guys exist on masse. And they will always blame someone else. They engage 4v5, blame the person that is not there. They overextend way too much, blame the guy who "did not call ss". The other extreme is strange, too, because they know what to do, but don't have any money or can't make it work because of a lack of mechanics. Most people are somewhere in between. Also, i'd say it is exactly the opposite way around. Mechanics are rather easy to practice, gamesense it not. You can only get gamesense by playing lots and lots of games, AND being aware what is going on during all this time. You probably also need to watch a lot of replays, and then remember what you thought at a specific point in game, and if that was right or wrong. And THEN you need to find out if you can generalize that. Sure, someone who play with you and calls all the shots is a bandaid fix, but that does only work as long as that guy is with you. If you want to practice mechanics, just grab someone and 1v1 lane him for a few hours. Most basic mechanics like lasthitting can even be practiced against bots pretty easily. Also, it is pretty easy to test if your gamesense is actually good. Just play jungle. Jungling is about 90% gamesense, mechanics are largely irrelevant. Especially if you play someone like skarner, who doesn't even have any skillshots. His E.  Oh, yes, i actually forgot that exists. And i play a lot of skarner. Holy shit...this just made me realize in the two beastly ranked games I played recently as Skarner (and carried pretty well I think) I don't think I used a single E. Does that fit under bad mechanics or gamesense? I think mechanics honestly. Same thing that makes me forget active abilities and such. PS. Bear the type of people you described as being infuriating to play with? I play with those people every god damn game. Edit: In fact, I'm probably one of them in some respects. It's called subconsciously knowing how to play Skarner. I think Skarnold calls it a useless ability you shouldn't rank up until you're forced to. Every time I see a player pick E as skarner i know I will have a tough game with a useless jungler -.-
This. So much. People should just not put a point in E even at 13 so they don't accidentally press it later on.
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On October 17 2012 02:16 xes wrote:
By the time I actually have pts in E (lvl 13+) I never actually do anything with skills. Just flash reverie ult and then the guy is dead.
If you're mopping up a teamfight, you never press E either because it has cast time and you want to keep up Q.
Yeah I'm not so sure about that.
1v1ing a Yorick on multiple occasions, I feel that some extra sustain would definitely have helped in some of those situations (post-12, I was recently instructed not to level E before that so I was aware).
Just going to chalk it up to me being a baddie.
Now in terms of other junglers and what to level, and a champion that requires really good mechanics AND gamesense (and hence why I'll never be good at him)----Lee Sin.
I've heard max Q first, max W for better sustain...hell I've heard max E for cam clearing and OP slow. Most of all it seems to me like he's supposed to be really flexible and you level up what you need? I don't know. All I know is, too many jumps, too many skillshots, too many autoattack passive procs/energy to manage means I sucks.
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I think E at the higher spell levels in underrated, just because of how rare you get it ranked up and how rare the situations where your active DPS status matters a lot.
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On October 17 2012 02:42 Sandster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 02:03 WhiteDog wrote:On October 17 2012 01:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:On October 17 2012 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 17 2012 00:40 Simberto wrote:On October 17 2012 00:29 Zdrastochye wrote:On October 17 2012 00:17 Simberto wrote:On October 16 2012 23:53 barbsq wrote:On October 16 2012 23:14 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 16 2012 23:01 barbsq wrote:
having better mechanics significantly complements good gamesense, so I would never say that you should ignore your mechanics. I think it's true tho, that good gamesense with poor mechanics will beat poor gamesense with good mechanics for the most part. Not entirely sure I agree with you, Sir Bear. I would argue that my gamesense is pretty decent (I would say higher than my current elo would let on, but that opens up a whole other elo hell can o' worms, amirite?) but my mechanics are just godawful. I panic in teamfights, misclick and hit the wrong keys constantly (my 5s team yesterday can attest to it) and still tend to miss last hits and such way more often than I should. Obviously I still make dumb mistakes as I am a bad player overall, but I think a lot of the time my calls ingame are good ones and I don't tend to be caught my obvious baits/gank attempts very often. I feel like if I had good mechanics but crappy gamesense I'd win lane much more often (though get ganked a lot more) and be able to snowball from there more often when the jungler fails to help my laning opponent. (Disclaimer: I am aware how self-biased this post sounds; it's just how I feel about my own skill level. I don't think I'm good at the game by any means, and I know that any decent player can show just how big of a failure I am at gamesense/mechanics/any aspect of the game I think I'm good at.) Idk, i think if there were a player whos gamesense was as poor as your description of mechanics that would be a serious handicap. If there were a player whos skillset were the exact opposite of yours, I feel like i would much rather not have that person. I guess if your mechanics are actively interfering with how you play the game, then your gamesense has to be really damn good to make up for it (i don't have enough experience playing with you to know where you stand). In terms of improvement tho, i guess someone who's mechanically sound just needs someone to tell them what to do, whereas someone who has solid gamesense needs a lot more active practice to be able to get up to par. edit: to clarify a bit, this kind of person i would imagine constantly face-checking brushes, pushing to tier2 tower without wards, consistently engaging in losing battles (eg 4v5, 3v5, 3v4, etc), but still has decent mechanics and doesn't missclick and hits the majority of skillshots. I feel like that kind of person would be infuriating to play with. The sad thing is, those guys exist on masse. And they will always blame someone else. They engage 4v5, blame the person that is not there. They overextend way too much, blame the guy who "did not call ss". The other extreme is strange, too, because they know what to do, but don't have any money or can't make it work because of a lack of mechanics. Most people are somewhere in between. Also, i'd say it is exactly the opposite way around. Mechanics are rather easy to practice, gamesense it not. You can only get gamesense by playing lots and lots of games, AND being aware what is going on during all this time. You probably also need to watch a lot of replays, and then remember what you thought at a specific point in game, and if that was right or wrong. And THEN you need to find out if you can generalize that. Sure, someone who play with you and calls all the shots is a bandaid fix, but that does only work as long as that guy is with you. If you want to practice mechanics, just grab someone and 1v1 lane him for a few hours. Most basic mechanics like lasthitting can even be practiced against bots pretty easily. Also, it is pretty easy to test if your gamesense is actually good. Just play jungle. Jungling is about 90% gamesense, mechanics are largely irrelevant. Especially if you play someone like skarner, who doesn't even have any skillshots. His E. Oh, yes, i actually forgot that exists. And i play a lot of skarner. Holy shit...this just made me realize in the two beastly ranked games I played recently as Skarner (and carried pretty well I think) I don't think I used a single E. Does that fit under bad mechanics or gamesense? I think mechanics honestly. Same thing that makes me forget active abilities and such. PS. Bear the type of people you described as being infuriating to play with? I play with those people every god damn game. Edit: In fact, I'm probably one of them in some respects. It's called subconsciously knowing how to play Skarner. I think Skarnold calls it a useless ability you shouldn't rank up until you're forced to. Every time I see a player pick E as skarner i know I will have a tough game with a useless jungler -.- This. So much. People should just not put a point in E even at 13 so they don't accidentally press it later on.
Hopping on the circlejerk here; every time I see a bad skarner he has an early point in E.
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im 72-37 with skarner in ranked. i take e at lvl 2. every game.
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On October 17 2012 03:24 Vaporized wrote:
im 72-37 with skarner in ranked. i take e at lvl 2. every game.
W shields more than the max possible healing of E. On the first clear with blue, taking E feels like it keeps up your HP better but that's mostly just perception. I've actually tested it because Skarnold's guide says E is crap and when I accidentally took E at lvl 2 instead of W it felt pretty ok but then I redid the clear with W and ended up with more HP at the end.
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On October 17 2012 03:27 xes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 03:24 Vaporized wrote:
im 72-37 with skarner in ranked. i take e at lvl 2. every game. W shields more than the max possible healing of E. On the first clear with blue, taking E feels like it keeps up your HP better but that's mostly just perception. I've actually tested it because Skarnold's guide says E is crap and when I accidentally took E at lvl 2 instead of W it felt pretty ok but then I redid the clear with W and ended up with more HP at the end.
alright ill try that next time i play skarner which is all the time.
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On October 17 2012 03:24 Vaporized wrote:
im 72-37 with skarner in ranked. i take e at lvl 2. every game.
at what elo
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I started teaching my gf how to play LoL. She likes kog maw because I call his E the barf carpet lol. Any tips on teaching new players how to play?
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You guys act like getting E on skarner is like throwing the game and showing your true colours as a complete retard when really it makes a minimal effect on the game it's just an optimization not to get it.
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i think its pretty important not to get it at early levels
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On October 17 2012 03:33 Slayer91 wrote:
You guys act like getting E on skarner is like throwing the game and showing your true colours as a complete retard when really it makes a minimal effect on the game it's just an optimization not to get it.
You act like playing non-optimally is acceptable for us elitists at TL.
(Sarcasm)
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E has very niche uses, none of which show up very frequently in real games
i skip it til 13 in 99% of games
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On October 17 2012 03:38 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 03:33 Slayer91 wrote:
You guys act like getting E on skarner is like throwing the game and showing your true colours as a complete retard when really it makes a minimal effect on the game it's just an optimization not to get it. You act like playing non-optimally is acceptable for us elitists at TL. (Sarcasm)
It's similar to the way how big of an impact everyone here weighs item builds as a form of playing optimally. More often than not, just executing character mechanics has a far bigger impact than super optimal play.
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why does everyone hate e so much man
the only real problem I see with it is that it's a waste of mana. But, if your mid doesn't need blue buff, why not get a point and use it a bit lol.
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On October 17 2012 03:40 wei2coolman wrote:
It's similar to the way how big of an impact everyone here weighs item builds as a form of playing optimally. More often than not, just executing character mechanics has a far bigger impact than super optimal play.
should i get AD runes or armor pen runes?
the answer is stop feeding
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Would be interesting to level it first to get a better realization of what it actually does. Everytime I get it now it´s like I use it once at level 13 then forget about it, maybe it´s not that trash after all.
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EPT
