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On October 17 2012 00:29 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 00:17 Simberto wrote:On October 16 2012 23:53 barbsq wrote:On October 16 2012 23:14 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 16 2012 23:01 barbsq wrote:
having better mechanics significantly complements good gamesense, so I would never say that you should ignore your mechanics. I think it's true tho, that good gamesense with poor mechanics will beat poor gamesense with good mechanics for the most part. Not entirely sure I agree with you, Sir Bear. I would argue that my gamesense is pretty decent (I would say higher than my current elo would let on, but that opens up a whole other elo hell can o' worms, amirite?) but my mechanics are just godawful. I panic in teamfights, misclick and hit the wrong keys constantly (my 5s team yesterday can attest to it) and still tend to miss last hits and such way more often than I should. Obviously I still make dumb mistakes as I am a bad player overall, but I think a lot of the time my calls ingame are good ones and I don't tend to be caught my obvious baits/gank attempts very often. I feel like if I had good mechanics but crappy gamesense I'd win lane much more often (though get ganked a lot more) and be able to snowball from there more often when the jungler fails to help my laning opponent. (Disclaimer: I am aware how self-biased this post sounds; it's just how I feel about my own skill level. I don't think I'm good at the game by any means, and I know that any decent player can show just how big of a failure I am at gamesense/mechanics/any aspect of the game I think I'm good at.) Idk, i think if there were a player whos gamesense was as poor as your description of mechanics that would be a serious handicap. If there were a player whos skillset were the exact opposite of yours, I feel like i would much rather not have that person. I guess if your mechanics are actively interfering with how you play the game, then your gamesense has to be really damn good to make up for it (i don't have enough experience playing with you to know where you stand). In terms of improvement tho, i guess someone who's mechanically sound just needs someone to tell them what to do, whereas someone who has solid gamesense needs a lot more active practice to be able to get up to par. edit: to clarify a bit, this kind of person i would imagine constantly face-checking brushes, pushing to tier2 tower without wards, consistently engaging in losing battles (eg 4v5, 3v5, 3v4, etc), but still has decent mechanics and doesn't missclick and hits the majority of skillshots. I feel like that kind of person would be infuriating to play with. The sad thing is, those guys exist on masse. And they will always blame someone else. They engage 4v5, blame the person that is not there. They overextend way too much, blame the guy who "did not call ss". The other extreme is strange, too, because they know what to do, but don't have any money or can't make it work because of a lack of mechanics. Most people are somewhere in between. Also, i'd say it is exactly the opposite way around. Mechanics are rather easy to practice, gamesense it not. You can only get gamesense by playing lots and lots of games, AND being aware what is going on during all this time. You probably also need to watch a lot of replays, and then remember what you thought at a specific point in game, and if that was right or wrong. And THEN you need to find out if you can generalize that. Sure, someone who play with you and calls all the shots is a bandaid fix, but that does only work as long as that guy is with you. If you want to practice mechanics, just grab someone and 1v1 lane him for a few hours. Most basic mechanics like lasthitting can even be practiced against bots pretty easily. Also, it is pretty easy to test if your gamesense is actually good. Just play jungle. Jungling is about 90% gamesense, mechanics are largely irrelevant. Especially if you play someone like skarner, who doesn't even have any skillshots. His E. 
Oh, yes, i actually forgot that exists. And i play a lot of skarner.
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Question about the double gp5 jungler builds. Have any of you wanted to skip the hog in favor of faster shurelia/aegis? I find that on certain champs (like Naut, Amumu) that getting boots, philo, hog, aegis, shurelia, and wards/orac you have no chain vest for FOREVER. This is also a big deal with Naut/Maokai/Skarner who get so much out of shurelia active and the cdr from faster shurelia/frozen heart. I feel so utterly worthless and squishy until I get a shurelia and chain vest.
I hate this jungler meta though. It's very hard to play champs like Udyr or WW now.
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I haven't been getting HoG since its nerf. I just get an early kindlegem on Mao, Mundo, or anybody that may use it (unless the comps don't call for an early shurelya and I'll generally rush aegis or glacial shroud).
To clarify, I don't get it on supports either unless I can get it really early (before the 10 minutes mark) and then I use its gold generation to spam more wards at each back. If not I'll just straight up rush aegis after philo, or get a kindlegem (that more often than not ends up as zeke rather than shurelya, as I cling onto my philostone for probably way too long).
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On October 17 2012 00:42 Sandster wrote:
Question about the double gp5 jungler builds. Have any of you wanted to skip the hog in favor of faster shurelia/aegis? I find that on certain champs (like Naut, Amumu) that getting boots, philo, hog, aegis, shurelia, and wards/orac you have no chain vest for FOREVER. This is also a big deal with Naut/Maokai/Skarner who get so much out of shurelia active and the cdr from faster shurelia/frozen heart. I feel so utterly worthless and squishy until I get a shurelia and chain vest.
I hate this jungler meta though. It's very hard to play champs like Udyr or WW now.
Let me preface this by saying I'm 1900-2000 elo, so by no means am I totally sure of this being true:
I find that when I jungle my tanky initiators I generally want both randuins and shurelya's unless they have some weird team comp that has no AD to it. That's why I still get hog now, because I intend on using it later. If I'm not intending on building randuins then I will definitely always always always get aegis after philo.
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zzzz, getting used to a new mouse so hard.
Always miss CS, never not miss CS
Always miss skillshots, never not miss skillshots
Time to play Sona until i get used to it.
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Gained 70~ Elo off of just playing Darius in Ranked.
It's amazing how ranked at around 1300 is just mental warfare. ~_~
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I build warden's mail first when I'm going for randuin's nowadays, I dunno.
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can you get honored after you leave a game?
i feel like most of the time i'm the first or second person to leave a game
when i leave the game i'll get that notification for +1 friendly, +1 teamwork or w/e
i'll go to my profile and see that indeed, my teamwork and friendly have been increased by 1
i'll then wait a few minutes before queueing up again
i'll check my profile first to see if i got any honor after i left the game
and i NEVER have
not once after leaving the post-game lobby have i gotten a notification or seen my honor increase? is this a bug or intended? do i really have to be the last person standing in the lobby in order to get more honor? :\
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I noticed that you can swap players in the bottom during spectator mode, so you can match up ppl according to their roles. Is there a way you can do this in game?
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I just tuned in to TRM holy shit dat rage. HOLY. SHIT. He is raging so friggin hard oO
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On October 17 2012 00:51 Zdrastochye wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 00:42 Sandster wrote:
Question about the double gp5 jungler builds. Have any of you wanted to skip the hog in favor of faster shurelia/aegis? I find that on certain champs (like Naut, Amumu) that getting boots, philo, hog, aegis, shurelia, and wards/orac you have no chain vest for FOREVER. This is also a big deal with Naut/Maokai/Skarner who get so much out of shurelia active and the cdr from faster shurelia/frozen heart. I feel so utterly worthless and squishy until I get a shurelia and chain vest.
I hate this jungler meta though. It's very hard to play champs like Udyr or WW now. Let me preface this by saying I'm 1900-2000 elo, so by no means am I totally sure of this being true: I find that when I jungle my tanky initiators I generally want both randuins and shurelya's unless they have some weird team comp that has no AD to it. That's why I still get hog now, because I intend on using it later. If I'm not intending on building randuins then I will definitely always always always get aegis after philo.
Yeah that's why with Amumu I still get HoG. But on Skarner, Maokai, Naut you're usually going to build FH instead of Randuins, which was why I had this dilemma.
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On October 17 2012 01:10 gtrsrs wrote:
can you get honored after you leave a game?
i feel like most of the time i'm the first or second person to leave a game
when i leave the game i'll get that notification for +1 friendly, +1 teamwork or w/e
i'll go to my profile and see that indeed, my teamwork and friendly have been increased by 1
i'll then wait a few minutes before queueing up again
i'll check my profile first to see if i got any honor after i left the game
and i NEVER have
not once after leaving the post-game lobby have i gotten a notification or seen my honor increase? is this a bug or intended? do i really have to be the last person standing in the lobby in order to get more honor? :\
I am almost certain that i have gotten honor after leaving the lobby. The way it happens is that when you leave, you get the "you got xyz honor" message, and then a few minutes later i got another message "you got 1 teamwork"
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On October 17 2012 00:40 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 00:29 Zdrastochye wrote:On October 17 2012 00:17 Simberto wrote:On October 16 2012 23:53 barbsq wrote:On October 16 2012 23:14 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 16 2012 23:01 barbsq wrote:
having better mechanics significantly complements good gamesense, so I would never say that you should ignore your mechanics. I think it's true tho, that good gamesense with poor mechanics will beat poor gamesense with good mechanics for the most part. Not entirely sure I agree with you, Sir Bear. I would argue that my gamesense is pretty decent (I would say higher than my current elo would let on, but that opens up a whole other elo hell can o' worms, amirite?) but my mechanics are just godawful. I panic in teamfights, misclick and hit the wrong keys constantly (my 5s team yesterday can attest to it) and still tend to miss last hits and such way more often than I should. Obviously I still make dumb mistakes as I am a bad player overall, but I think a lot of the time my calls ingame are good ones and I don't tend to be caught my obvious baits/gank attempts very often. I feel like if I had good mechanics but crappy gamesense I'd win lane much more often (though get ganked a lot more) and be able to snowball from there more often when the jungler fails to help my laning opponent. (Disclaimer: I am aware how self-biased this post sounds; it's just how I feel about my own skill level. I don't think I'm good at the game by any means, and I know that any decent player can show just how big of a failure I am at gamesense/mechanics/any aspect of the game I think I'm good at.) Idk, i think if there were a player whos gamesense was as poor as your description of mechanics that would be a serious handicap. If there were a player whos skillset were the exact opposite of yours, I feel like i would much rather not have that person. I guess if your mechanics are actively interfering with how you play the game, then your gamesense has to be really damn good to make up for it (i don't have enough experience playing with you to know where you stand). In terms of improvement tho, i guess someone who's mechanically sound just needs someone to tell them what to do, whereas someone who has solid gamesense needs a lot more active practice to be able to get up to par. edit: to clarify a bit, this kind of person i would imagine constantly face-checking brushes, pushing to tier2 tower without wards, consistently engaging in losing battles (eg 4v5, 3v5, 3v4, etc), but still has decent mechanics and doesn't missclick and hits the majority of skillshots. I feel like that kind of person would be infuriating to play with. The sad thing is, those guys exist on masse. And they will always blame someone else. They engage 4v5, blame the person that is not there. They overextend way too much, blame the guy who "did not call ss". The other extreme is strange, too, because they know what to do, but don't have any money or can't make it work because of a lack of mechanics. Most people are somewhere in between. Also, i'd say it is exactly the opposite way around. Mechanics are rather easy to practice, gamesense it not. You can only get gamesense by playing lots and lots of games, AND being aware what is going on during all this time. You probably also need to watch a lot of replays, and then remember what you thought at a specific point in game, and if that was right or wrong. And THEN you need to find out if you can generalize that. Sure, someone who play with you and calls all the shots is a bandaid fix, but that does only work as long as that guy is with you. If you want to practice mechanics, just grab someone and 1v1 lane him for a few hours. Most basic mechanics like lasthitting can even be practiced against bots pretty easily. Also, it is pretty easy to test if your gamesense is actually good. Just play jungle. Jungling is about 90% gamesense, mechanics are largely irrelevant. Especially if you play someone like skarner, who doesn't even have any skillshots. His E. Oh, yes, i actually forgot that exists. And i play a lot of skarner.
Holy shit...this just made me realize in the two beastly ranked games I played recently as Skarner (and carried pretty well I think) I don't think I used a single E.
Does that fit under bad mechanics or gamesense? I think mechanics honestly. Same thing that makes me forget active abilities and such.
PS. Bear the type of people you described as being infuriating to play with? I play with those people every god damn game.
Edit: In fact, I'm probably one of them in some respects.
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On October 17 2012 01:10 gtrsrs wrote:
can you get honored after you leave a game?
i feel like most of the time i'm the first or second person to leave a game
when i leave the game i'll get that notification for +1 friendly, +1 teamwork or w/e
i'll go to my profile and see that indeed, my teamwork and friendly have been increased by 1
i'll then wait a few minutes before queueing up again
i'll check my profile first to see if i got any honor after i left the game
and i NEVER have
not once after leaving the post-game lobby have i gotten a notification or seen my honor increase? is this a bug or intended? do i really have to be the last person standing in the lobby in order to get more honor? :\
It's just a bug that you don't get notifications if you leave the lobby before they award you.
The best you can do is relog after each game.
I relogged and got 2 helpful after login.
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On October 17 2012 01:10 gtrsrs wrote:
can you get honored after you leave a game?
i feel like most of the time i'm the first or second person to leave a game
when i leave the game i'll get that notification for +1 friendly, +1 teamwork or w/e
i'll go to my profile and see that indeed, my teamwork and friendly have been increased by 1
i'll then wait a few minutes before queueing up again
i'll check my profile first to see if i got any honor after i left the game
and i NEVER have
not once after leaving the post-game lobby have i gotten a notification or seen my honor increase? is this a bug or intended? do i really have to be the last person standing in the lobby in order to get more honor? :\
It might be that the client waits for a good time to display the honor gain message and those good times are right after you leave a game. The honors you get right after you leave a game might be from the game previous to the one you just played, but the client never had a opportunity to display it to you.
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Froggen Lee Sin is tooooooooooooooo strong. It's absurd.
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On October 17 2012 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 00:40 Simberto wrote:On October 17 2012 00:29 Zdrastochye wrote:On October 17 2012 00:17 Simberto wrote:On October 16 2012 23:53 barbsq wrote:On October 16 2012 23:14 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 16 2012 23:01 barbsq wrote:
having better mechanics significantly complements good gamesense, so I would never say that you should ignore your mechanics. I think it's true tho, that good gamesense with poor mechanics will beat poor gamesense with good mechanics for the most part. Not entirely sure I agree with you, Sir Bear. I would argue that my gamesense is pretty decent (I would say higher than my current elo would let on, but that opens up a whole other elo hell can o' worms, amirite?) but my mechanics are just godawful. I panic in teamfights, misclick and hit the wrong keys constantly (my 5s team yesterday can attest to it) and still tend to miss last hits and such way more often than I should. Obviously I still make dumb mistakes as I am a bad player overall, but I think a lot of the time my calls ingame are good ones and I don't tend to be caught my obvious baits/gank attempts very often. I feel like if I had good mechanics but crappy gamesense I'd win lane much more often (though get ganked a lot more) and be able to snowball from there more often when the jungler fails to help my laning opponent. (Disclaimer: I am aware how self-biased this post sounds; it's just how I feel about my own skill level. I don't think I'm good at the game by any means, and I know that any decent player can show just how big of a failure I am at gamesense/mechanics/any aspect of the game I think I'm good at.) Idk, i think if there were a player whos gamesense was as poor as your description of mechanics that would be a serious handicap. If there were a player whos skillset were the exact opposite of yours, I feel like i would much rather not have that person. I guess if your mechanics are actively interfering with how you play the game, then your gamesense has to be really damn good to make up for it (i don't have enough experience playing with you to know where you stand). In terms of improvement tho, i guess someone who's mechanically sound just needs someone to tell them what to do, whereas someone who has solid gamesense needs a lot more active practice to be able to get up to par. edit: to clarify a bit, this kind of person i would imagine constantly face-checking brushes, pushing to tier2 tower without wards, consistently engaging in losing battles (eg 4v5, 3v5, 3v4, etc), but still has decent mechanics and doesn't missclick and hits the majority of skillshots. I feel like that kind of person would be infuriating to play with. The sad thing is, those guys exist on masse. And they will always blame someone else. They engage 4v5, blame the person that is not there. They overextend way too much, blame the guy who "did not call ss". The other extreme is strange, too, because they know what to do, but don't have any money or can't make it work because of a lack of mechanics. Most people are somewhere in between. Also, i'd say it is exactly the opposite way around. Mechanics are rather easy to practice, gamesense it not. You can only get gamesense by playing lots and lots of games, AND being aware what is going on during all this time. You probably also need to watch a lot of replays, and then remember what you thought at a specific point in game, and if that was right or wrong. And THEN you need to find out if you can generalize that. Sure, someone who play with you and calls all the shots is a bandaid fix, but that does only work as long as that guy is with you. If you want to practice mechanics, just grab someone and 1v1 lane him for a few hours. Most basic mechanics like lasthitting can even be practiced against bots pretty easily. Also, it is pretty easy to test if your gamesense is actually good. Just play jungle. Jungling is about 90% gamesense, mechanics are largely irrelevant. Especially if you play someone like skarner, who doesn't even have any skillshots. His E. Oh, yes, i actually forgot that exists. And i play a lot of skarner. Holy shit...this just made me realize in the two beastly ranked games I played recently as Skarner (and carried pretty well I think) I don't think I used a single E. Does that fit under bad mechanics or gamesense? I think mechanics honestly. Same thing that makes me forget active abilities and such. PS. Bear the type of people you described as being infuriating to play with? I play with those people every god damn game. Edit: In fact, I'm probably one of them in some respects.
It's called subconsciously knowing how to play Skarner.
I think Skarnold calls it a useless ability you shouldn't rank up until you're forced to.
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You never rank up a early point of E because its
A. its mana cost is so high
B. barely does any damage for its mana cost, Q is always better
C.barely heals you
The only time E is ever good early game is for sniping someone <30hp during a gank, very satisfying
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On October 17 2012 01:41 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 17 2012 00:40 Simberto wrote:On October 17 2012 00:29 Zdrastochye wrote:On October 17 2012 00:17 Simberto wrote:On October 16 2012 23:53 barbsq wrote:On October 16 2012 23:14 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 16 2012 23:01 barbsq wrote:
having better mechanics significantly complements good gamesense, so I would never say that you should ignore your mechanics. I think it's true tho, that good gamesense with poor mechanics will beat poor gamesense with good mechanics for the most part. Not entirely sure I agree with you, Sir Bear. I would argue that my gamesense is pretty decent (I would say higher than my current elo would let on, but that opens up a whole other elo hell can o' worms, amirite?) but my mechanics are just godawful. I panic in teamfights, misclick and hit the wrong keys constantly (my 5s team yesterday can attest to it) and still tend to miss last hits and such way more often than I should. Obviously I still make dumb mistakes as I am a bad player overall, but I think a lot of the time my calls ingame are good ones and I don't tend to be caught my obvious baits/gank attempts very often. I feel like if I had good mechanics but crappy gamesense I'd win lane much more often (though get ganked a lot more) and be able to snowball from there more often when the jungler fails to help my laning opponent. (Disclaimer: I am aware how self-biased this post sounds; it's just how I feel about my own skill level. I don't think I'm good at the game by any means, and I know that any decent player can show just how big of a failure I am at gamesense/mechanics/any aspect of the game I think I'm good at.) Idk, i think if there were a player whos gamesense was as poor as your description of mechanics that would be a serious handicap. If there were a player whos skillset were the exact opposite of yours, I feel like i would much rather not have that person. I guess if your mechanics are actively interfering with how you play the game, then your gamesense has to be really damn good to make up for it (i don't have enough experience playing with you to know where you stand). In terms of improvement tho, i guess someone who's mechanically sound just needs someone to tell them what to do, whereas someone who has solid gamesense needs a lot more active practice to be able to get up to par. edit: to clarify a bit, this kind of person i would imagine constantly face-checking brushes, pushing to tier2 tower without wards, consistently engaging in losing battles (eg 4v5, 3v5, 3v4, etc), but still has decent mechanics and doesn't missclick and hits the majority of skillshots. I feel like that kind of person would be infuriating to play with. The sad thing is, those guys exist on masse. And they will always blame someone else. They engage 4v5, blame the person that is not there. They overextend way too much, blame the guy who "did not call ss". The other extreme is strange, too, because they know what to do, but don't have any money or can't make it work because of a lack of mechanics. Most people are somewhere in between. Also, i'd say it is exactly the opposite way around. Mechanics are rather easy to practice, gamesense it not. You can only get gamesense by playing lots and lots of games, AND being aware what is going on during all this time. You probably also need to watch a lot of replays, and then remember what you thought at a specific point in game, and if that was right or wrong. And THEN you need to find out if you can generalize that. Sure, someone who play with you and calls all the shots is a bandaid fix, but that does only work as long as that guy is with you. If you want to practice mechanics, just grab someone and 1v1 lane him for a few hours. Most basic mechanics like lasthitting can even be practiced against bots pretty easily. Also, it is pretty easy to test if your gamesense is actually good. Just play jungle. Jungling is about 90% gamesense, mechanics are largely irrelevant. Especially if you play someone like skarner, who doesn't even have any skillshots. His E. Oh, yes, i actually forgot that exists. And i play a lot of skarner. Holy shit...this just made me realize in the two beastly ranked games I played recently as Skarner (and carried pretty well I think) I don't think I used a single E. Does that fit under bad mechanics or gamesense? I think mechanics honestly. Same thing that makes me forget active abilities and such. PS. Bear the type of people you described as being infuriating to play with? I play with those people every god damn game. Edit: In fact, I'm probably one of them in some respects. It's called subconsciously knowing how to play Skarner. I think Skarnold calls it a useless ability you shouldn't rank up until you're forced to.
Every time I see a player pick E as skarner i know I will have a tough game with a useless jungler -.-
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EPT
