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9871 Posts
On October 17 2012 03:57 Hakanfrog wrote:
Would be interesting to level it first to get a better realization of what it actually does. Everytime I get it now it´s like I use it once at level 13 then forget about it, maybe it´s not that trash after all.
I tried that in lane when he first came out, the sustain is fine or w/e but the mana cost is prohibitive over time.
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On October 17 2012 03:58 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 03:57 Hakanfrog wrote:
Would be interesting to level it first to get a better realization of what it actually does. Everytime I get it now it´s like I use it once at level 13 then forget about it, maybe it´s not that trash after all. I tried that in lane when he first came out, the sustain is fine or w/e but the mana cost is prohibitive over time.
Having mana issues son? I got 99 problems but mana ain't one. - Lee Singah.
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On October 17 2012 03:33 Mementoss wrote:
I started teaching my gf how to play LoL. She likes kog maw because I call his E the barf carpet lol. Any tips on teaching new players how to play?
Depends. You ask about how to keep them interested, or what to teach them first?
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On October 17 2012 04:07 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 03:33 Mementoss wrote:
I started teaching my gf how to play LoL. She likes kog maw because I call his E the barf carpet lol. Any tips on teaching new players how to play? Depends. You ask about how to keep them interested, or what to teach them first?
Go with the real basics. And do bots
1- First, tell her what's the goal of LoL is : Beat the other team, by destroying the nexus
2- Then, make her realize that to destroy the nexus, she need to get rid of towers (show the towers on the map). Also show the base inhib that she needs to take down.
Now, you will have to demonstrate the strength of the towers. So just go next to one, and die. (She might scream in disbelief!). Just like the child get burned and understand that fire hurts, she will understand that tower hurts. So attacking the tower alone is a BIG NO.
3- To destroy towers, she needs to be stronger. How to become stronger, she will ask? Well, you need to buy better equipment and level your champion. For that, you need to kill those monsters (better to call them monsters than minions or creeps ^^)
Don'T teach her the last hitting stuff though, not yet. Just make her realize that killing them gives her money. And with money, she gets to buy items! And with items, she will become stronger!!
When she understands this, then its a good time to tell her that she only gets gold when killing it, so its better to make sure she gets the kill, thus last hitting.
4- Then, tell her that there are some opponents heroes that want to destroy her nexus! And she doesn't want that to happen (because she will lose if she lose her nexus).
Don't go too deep with optimal build + optimal skills. Tell her if she ask, but don't play for her. Let her experiment stuff. Best would be to play a strong support (Taric or Soraka come to mind). And let her do everything. Beware, the game is likely to break the 1hour even against bot (assuming that the three other players are also new!)
The goal is not to win the first game, but for her to understand the basics. You don't need to explain everything ; she will see them herself. OF course, if she asks you questions, do reply.
Have fun, and hopefully you can increase lol population by 1!!!
When she starts winning alot the bots, that's when you can go into details (aka : teach her advanced stuff, beware of enemy ganks, optimal starting build, etc). IF you notice that she's just playing for fun (not playing against human), then do not bother. Only teach her the "optimal" stuff if she plans on playing PVP or if she's the perfectionist type
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http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/11kcdl/huge_informational_thread_about_jungle_changes/
Compilation of posts about upcoming S3 changes, mostly jungle stuff. However, there is this tidbit about supports that I think is... controversial:
Morello, about what support players can expect from the upcoming item overhaul:
"We are adding a lot of support-oriented items with this in mind, though, and alternate ways to get gold (cool new mastery for supports inc...). I actually don't mind zero CS - I mind that support don't get gold that they can use to buy cool items. That is what we'll fix here.
Zero CS is needed to keep support viable (it's actually always been the optimal way to play, players just didn't have that down pre S2), but they get to do a lot of other interesting things in lane like harass, peel or set up kills. Making the lane fight for CS is inferior to that."
I hear a lot of people talking about killing the 0 CS support meta, Riot seems intent on keeping it.
The rest is pretty good reading. Another big thing is the inclusion of jungle-specific items that allow weak junglers to get stronger, but strong junglers won't build. Interesting.
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Is Nunu only counter for Jayce toplane?
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Wasn't Skarner played solo top a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago? Like three or four "top lane meta"-championsets ago? In the heyday of Sion/Singed/Cho'gath/etc top?
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On October 17 2012 04:29 Ogww wrote:
Is Nunu only counter for Jayce toplane?
Irelia and darius are supposed to be able to lane against him just fine. Those matchups are skill and jungle dependant tho
On October 17 2012 04:34 Celial wrote:
Wasn't Skarner played solo top a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago? Like three or four "top lane meta"-championsets ago? In the heyday of Sion/Singed/Cho'gath/etc top?
I think it was theorycrafted but I don't remember it ever being too popular
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On October 17 2012 04:26 Requizen wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/11kcdl/huge_informational_thread_about_jungle_changes/Compilation of posts about upcoming S3 changes, mostly jungle stuff. However, there is this tidbit about supports that I think is... controversial: Show nested quote +Morello, about what support players can expect from the upcoming item overhaul:
"We are adding a lot of support-oriented items with this in mind, though, and alternate ways to get gold (cool new mastery for supports inc...). I actually don't mind zero CS - I mind that support don't get gold that they can use to buy cool items. That is what we'll fix here.
Zero CS is needed to keep support viable (it's actually always been the optimal way to play, players just didn't have that down pre S2), but they get to do a lot of other interesting things in lane like harass, peel or set up kills. Making the lane fight for CS is inferior to that." I hear a lot of people talking about killing the 0 CS support meta, Riot seems intent on keeping it. The rest is pretty good reading. Another big thing is the inclusion of jungle-specific items that allow weak junglers to get stronger, but strong junglers won't build. Interesting.
If supports do end up getting more gold in S3 I would expect a ton of support balance changes. Chars like Soraka, Janna, and Lulu (and the fringe supports like Zyra and Morgana) benefit much more from gold than guys like Taric.
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United States47024 Posts
Morello, about what support players can expect from the upcoming item overhaul:
"We are adding a lot of support-oriented items with this in mind, though, and alternate ways to get gold (cool new mastery for supports inc...). I actually don't mind zero CS - I mind that support don't get gold that they can use to buy cool items. That is what we'll fix here.
Zero CS is needed to keep support viable (it's actually always been the optimal way to play, players just didn't have that down pre S2), but they get to do a lot of other interesting things in lane like harass, peel or set up kills. Making the lane fight for CS is inferior to that."
I'm curious where this opinion comes from. I don't see why it's a necessity that support has to be a zero-CS role.
Honestly, allocating significant amounts of farm to supports is one of the most under-developed areas of this game. People need to play with it more before Morello jumps the gun and says it's the only optimal way to play the game.
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What is it with most people nowadays going bloodthirster first on adc? Isn't IE -> PD -> BT better overall? I can understand maybe if you are getting harassed by a lane like Sona/Ez but otherwise it just seems kinda dumb to me. Anyone that's higher level than me care to elaborate?
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Counter for Jayce top lane is ban Jayce and be happy they're nerfing him in the next patch.
But more srsly, I've heard Irelia works well.
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On October 17 2012 04:39 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +Morello, about what support players can expect from the upcoming item overhaul:
"We are adding a lot of support-oriented items with this in mind, though, and alternate ways to get gold (cool new mastery for supports inc...). I actually don't mind zero CS - I mind that support don't get gold that they can use to buy cool items. That is what we'll fix here.
Zero CS is needed to keep support viable (it's actually always been the optimal way to play, players just didn't have that down pre S2), but they get to do a lot of other interesting things in lane like harass, peel or set up kills. Making the lane fight for CS is inferior to that." I'm curious where this opinion comes from. I don't see why it's a necessity that support has to be a zero-CS role.
Same. I could agree that it's definitely going to be a low-CS role no matter what, but there's a big difference between 5 cs at 30 mins and 40 cs at 30 minutes.
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On October 17 2012 04:35 Ryuu314 wrote:Irelia and darius are supposed to be able to lane against him just fine. Those matchups are skill and jungle dependant tho
After playing Jayce vs Irelia 6 and Irelia vs Jayce 4 times, I don't get how Irelia is supposed to lane against Jayce, though I'm currently only 1,4k-ish and so are my opponents mostly. Ranged mode all day, lasthit and non-stop harass and if Irelia happens to jump on you, RE when he's midair and boom you just won another trade. Haven't met any Nunu players as Jayce but after beating 5 Jayce's in a row with solotop Nunu it sure feels strong.
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What I can foresee of a support item is perhaps one which sacrifices one's own health/resistence to boost his allies in a certain way. That feels like the only mechanics that can be used on support and do not benefit other roles strongly.
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On October 17 2012 04:41 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 04:39 TheYango wrote:Morello, about what support players can expect from the upcoming item overhaul:
"We are adding a lot of support-oriented items with this in mind, though, and alternate ways to get gold (cool new mastery for supports inc...). I actually don't mind zero CS - I mind that support don't get gold that they can use to buy cool items. That is what we'll fix here.
Zero CS is needed to keep support viable (it's actually always been the optimal way to play, players just didn't have that down pre S2), but they get to do a lot of other interesting things in lane like harass, peel or set up kills. Making the lane fight for CS is inferior to that." I'm curious where this opinion comes from. I don't see why it's a necessity that support has to be a zero-CS role. Same. I could agree that it's definitely going to be a low-CS role no matter what, but there's a big difference between 5 cs at 30 mins and 40 cs at 30 minutes.
Yea, the difference is a finished item on your AD Carry vs. a bunch of assorted pieces.
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United States47024 Posts
Actually, re-reading that post, Morello seems to have the same misguided impression that a lot of people have that farm distribution is locked by lanes and that therefore support farm means taking laning phase CS from the carry.
Look at the games at Worlds. "Laning phase" was over by the time the carries had ~150 CS in many cases (at that point teams were already making significant map movement and objective-taking), while games ended with carries having double that. There's a lot of room in there for farm allocation that has absolutely nothing to do with how you handled laning phase farm, but how you assign pushed creep waves to people to farm. It's just that people instinctively assign that to the 3 laners, when practically speaking it's not all that hard or unnatural to let the jungler/support take some. Letting support get a big creep wave when your AP/AD aren't close to a critical item (e.g. you used your AD's IE timing to take Dragon and now your lanes are pushing back to you--and your carries are just banking gold toward their next item so their farm need is low at the moment) can easily slowly build up into them having ~50 CS and having a few key items.
On October 17 2012 04:44 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 04:41 sylverfyre wrote:On October 17 2012 04:39 TheYango wrote:Morello, about what support players can expect from the upcoming item overhaul:
"We are adding a lot of support-oriented items with this in mind, though, and alternate ways to get gold (cool new mastery for supports inc...). I actually don't mind zero CS - I mind that support don't get gold that they can use to buy cool items. That is what we'll fix here.
Zero CS is needed to keep support viable (it's actually always been the optimal way to play, players just didn't have that down pre S2), but they get to do a lot of other interesting things in lane like harass, peel or set up kills. Making the lane fight for CS is inferior to that." I'm curious where this opinion comes from. I don't see why it's a necessity that support has to be a zero-CS role. Same. I could agree that it's definitely going to be a low-CS role no matter what, but there's a big difference between 5 cs at 30 mins and 40 cs at 30 minutes. Yea, the difference is a finished item on your AD Carry vs. a bunch of assorted pieces.
Or it could be the difference between saving 100 toward your 2nd BF Sword and saving 800 toward your 2nd BF Sword. Which actually is zero difference in your combat ability.
It's a matter of timing. Sometimes it's critical, sometimes it means absolutely nothing. But realistically any team at a high level should know when they need to make use of/play around those specific timings, so support farm should never be a situation where they're blindly denying a carry of a critical item at a key point in time.
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On October 17 2012 04:43 Sufficiency wrote:
What I can foresee of a support item is perhaps one which sacrifices one's own health/resistence to boost his allies in a certain way. That feels like the only mechanics that can be used on support and do not benefit other roles strongly.
It's highly unlikely that Riot is going to introduce something that actually weakens yourself or an ally. They even got rid of the movespeed debuff on Blitz after he uses overdrive. They also cut down on many of the passive skills that would lose the passive while their active part was on cooldown (Yi, Taric).
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but the majority of games is played in solo q. you cant compare organized play to "normal" design decisions. organized players will piece together their own strategies and ways to play out of the pieces provided to the general player base, but that doesnt mean that the pieces s hould be designed for them. they have to be designed for the 2.999.900 (concurrent) players that form the every day player base.
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United States47024 Posts
On October 17 2012 04:54 Celial wrote:
but the majority of games is played in solo q. you cant compare organized play to "normal" design decisions. organized players will piece together their own strategies and ways to play out of the pieces provided to the general player base, but that doesnt mean that the pieces s hould be designed for them. they have to be designed for the 2.999.900 (concurrent) players that form the every day player base.
At the same time, a very large fraction of things that get developed in tournament play do trickle down to solo queue play as well. If you design for tournament play, a lot of the lower level things will sort themselves out, particularly if they're things like support farm that's an issue common to both solo queue and tournament play.
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