• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 22:53
CET 04:53
KST 12:53
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down21ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League99
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? 5.0.17 Patch Notes - October 7, 2026 Evil Geniuses - shutting down Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book SC2 Power Rank: epic29
Tourneys
ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles Mutation # 548 Shining Bright
Brood War
General
Top Players of October 2026 (EBPD Rankings) BW General Discussion [Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Mathematicians needed to calc "Low Econ Epicness" Rollback Netcode in Brood War
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [$1250] International ShieldBattery League
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Deus Ex 3!? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes?
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8568 users

[Patch 1.0.0.146: Late August] General Discussion - Page 23

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 162 Next
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
September 01 2012 03:38 GMT
#441
On September 01 2012 12:29 Slaughter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 12:25 BlackPaladin wrote:
On September 01 2012 12:23 Sufficiency wrote:
Oh. So today at the Q&A I asked Riot about the Karma remake. Apparently they will remake her into a support. I guess the death of AP Karma is soon(tm).


....
Why would they do that.
"We like champs to be fun!" *kills the fun things about them* Scumbag Riot strikes again T_T


Making her more picked is always a good thing. IF they do it right.


I am *GUESSING* what is going to happen is that her mantra E is going to get a different effect instead of damage, and her Q might get an additional CC when mantra'ed. In fact, I think Karma will be a pretty good support if her mantra E causes some sort of damage return (like Thormail) and her mantra Q contain a CC (perhaps a weak knock up, or knock back).

Karma sucks as a support; this is a fact. The only reason she is being played as AP is precisely due to her mantra E's damage. Her mantra E and her lack of CC otherwise makes her effective only with AP, causing her to be a poor support of the bottom lane.

https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
September 01 2012 04:01 GMT
#442
Does the Indomitable talent reduce each tick of a Dot? My hunch is yes, but I don't know for sure.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
September 01 2012 04:12 GMT
#443
On September 01 2012 13:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Does the Indomitable talent reduce each tick of a Dot? My hunch is yes, but I don't know for sure.

I would think so, seems like it would
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
September 01 2012 04:13 GMT
#444
On September 01 2012 13:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Does the Indomitable talent reduce each tick of a Dot? My hunch is yes, but I don't know for sure.

Yes it does.
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
September 01 2012 04:16 GMT
#445
ya its op
GANDHISAUCE
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
September 01 2012 04:28 GMT
#446
On September 01 2012 13:01 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
Does the Indomitable talent reduce each tick of a Dot? My hunch is yes, but I don't know for sure.


It part of the reason why Olaf's old ultimate was better in many circumstances. Against champions like Swain, Singed, Cass, Malzahar etc. Olaf's ultimate could kill a lot of damage.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
h3r1n6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Iceland2039 Posts
September 01 2012 04:29 GMT
#447
On September 01 2012 13:16 De4ngus wrote:
ya its op



Considering that it is applied after resistances, it is really good in certain cases. Against level 1 Cassio Q in a typical case it will reduce the damage by about 9% for just 2 mastery points. No other mastery gonna do that.
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-01 04:31:31
September 01 2012 04:30 GMT
#448
nvm
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
SoulSever
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada779 Posts
September 01 2012 04:32 GMT
#449
Have pros and cons of zilean been discussed in a previous GD? If so could some give a brief summary?
Violet <3 ~~~Better places than here exist
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-01 04:35:49
September 01 2012 04:34 GMT
#450
On September 01 2012 13:32 SoulSever wrote:
Have pros and cons of zilean been discussed in a previous GD? If so could some give a brief summary?


Pro: He wears a clock.
Con: Clocks are heavy so he needs to be carried.

More seriously, he's come up from time to time and the general consensus is he's okay but not that good outside of a 4 protects 1 comp, and even then his ult can be meh in bad circumstances.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
September 01 2012 04:34 GMT
#451
On September 01 2012 13:32 SoulSever wrote:
Have pros and cons of zilean been discussed in a previous GD? If so could some give a brief summary?

He's really good if you have a hyper carry for his ult.

his bombs do a fuckton of damage
laning phase can be summed up by : "U WANT LAST HIT MINION?? NO HERE BOM FUK U"
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-01 04:37:19
September 01 2012 04:35 GMT
#452


On September 01 2012 13:34 arb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 13:32 SoulSever wrote:
Have pros and cons of zilean been discussed in a previous GD? If so could some give a brief summary?

He's really good if you have a hyper carry for his ult.

his bombs do a fuckton of damage
laning phase can be summed up by : "U WANT LAST HIT MINION?? NO HERE BOM FUK U"


Only against melee AP I guess.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-01 04:41:11
September 01 2012 04:36 GMT
#453
On September 01 2012 13:35 Sufficiency wrote:

lol I misread. That post got removed before your reply here.


I tried to edit to hide your shame, but now you have immortalized it for all to see.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Chiharu Harukaze
Profile Joined September 2011
12112 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-01 04:38:43
September 01 2012 04:36 GMT
#454
On September 01 2012 13:32 SoulSever wrote:
Have pros and cons of zilean been discussed in a previous GD? If so could some give a brief summary?

Pros:
  • Imba long range harass
  • He hurts
  • Triple-Vayne OP (as proved in IEM Gamescom)
  • Good utility
  • Passive is awesome

Cons:
  • Very mana intensive without Blue Buff
  • Only one damaging skill (even with Rewind) means his damage falls off late game so your AD/Bruiser better be farmed
  • No CC
  • Yorick does the same thing and is OP top lane if you're willing to break gentleman's ban
  • Too many other OP/faceroll champs mid lane you'd generally rather have who are also good (Anivia, Gragas, Nyaahri, Ori, etc.)
It's like, "Is the Federation's Mobile Suit some kind of monster?"
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-01 04:41:28
September 01 2012 04:36 GMT
#455
On September 01 2012 13:36 Seuss wrote:

I tried to edit to hide your shame, but now you have immortalized it for all to see.


Maybe you should remove the one above as well :3

On September 01 2012 13:36 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 13:32 SoulSever wrote:
Have pros and cons of zilean been discussed in a previous GD? If so could some give a brief summary?

Pros:
  • Imba long range harass
  • He hurts
  • Triple-Vayne OP (as proved in IEM Gamescom)
  • Good utility
  • Passive is awesome

Cons:
  • Very mana intensive without Blue Buff
  • Only one damaging skill (even with Rewind) means his damage falls off late game so your AD/Bruiser better be farmed
  • Hard to cs under tower
  • No CC
  • Yorick does the same thing and is OP top lane


Zilean has an extremely strong early-mid game and a weak late game. As scarra described Zilean (scarra is a fairly good Zilean player imo), in mid game objective fight you will always win with Zilean, because in mid game it is impossible for the opposing team to blow up one of your team member's health bar twice. His damage does fall off quite a bit in late game...

Zilean's powercurve strongly resembles Gragas... however Gragas's ultimate displaces people...
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
gtrsrs
Profile Joined June 2010
United States9109 Posts
September 01 2012 04:46 GMT
#456
zilean is really good as a mid supporting a really offensive bruiser with a tanky jungler IMO.
he's also very strong in cheesy 2v1 lanes because if you think you're getting near creeps at level 1 with a zilean + 1 on the other team... well then fuck you here's 2 bombs go eat shit and die
i play ... hearthstone =\^.^/= Winterfox
h3r1n6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Iceland2039 Posts
September 01 2012 04:54 GMT
#457
He is a niche champion that has his uses, but not a champion you can pick with anything into anything. I like playing him, I wish they lowered his bombs mana costs, but at the same time laning against him is really really annoying, so I don't really want to see him played more.

Apart from resurrecting the Vayne, his best friend is Jax imo. His 55% speed boost that can have 100% uptime is kind of silly too.
UniversalSnip
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
9871 Posts
September 01 2012 05:04 GMT
#458
Playing a bruiser against zilean, mid or late game, is pretty difficult. A slow that strong = you take a lot of free damage just trying to move.
"How fucking dare you defile the sanctity of DotA with your fucking casual plebian terminology? May the curse of Gaben and Volvo be upon you. le filthy casual."
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
September 01 2012 05:22 GMT
#459
On September 01 2012 13:36 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 13:32 SoulSever wrote:
Have pros and cons of zilean been discussed in a previous GD? If so could some give a brief summary?

Pros:
  • Imba long range harass
  • He hurts
  • Triple-Vayne OP (as proved in IEM Gamescom)
  • Good utility
  • Passive is awesome

Cons:
  • Very mana intensive without Blue Buff
  • Only one damaging skill (even with Rewind) means his damage falls off late game so your AD/Bruiser better be farmed
  • No CC
  • Yorick does the same thing and is OP top lane if you're willing to break gentleman's ban
  • Too many other OP/faceroll champs mid lane you'd generally rather have who are also good (Anivia, Gragas, Nyaahri, Ori, etc.)


Now, I know it isn't what it says, but I tired read this as Trinity Vayne. Makes me question, has Trinity Vayne ever been a thing? lvl5 Tumble matches up perfectly with the Sheen proc. Is the 25% AS difference from PD damning enough?

Again, I'm pretty herp derp tired atm.
Celestial
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States652 Posts
September 01 2012 05:28 GMT
#460
On September 01 2012 14:22 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2012 13:36 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
On September 01 2012 13:32 SoulSever wrote:
Have pros and cons of zilean been discussed in a previous GD? If so could some give a brief summary?

Pros:
  • Imba long range harass
  • He hurts
  • Triple-Vayne OP (as proved in IEM Gamescom)
  • Good utility
  • Passive is awesome

Cons:
  • Very mana intensive without Blue Buff
  • Only one damaging skill (even with Rewind) means his damage falls off late game so your AD/Bruiser better be farmed
  • No CC
  • Yorick does the same thing and is OP top lane if you're willing to break gentleman's ban
  • Too many other OP/faceroll champs mid lane you'd generally rather have who are also good (Anivia, Gragas, Nyaahri, Ori, etc.)


Now, I know it isn't what it says, but I tired read this as Trinity Vayne. Makes me question, has Trinity Vayne ever been a thing? lvl5 Tumble matches up perfectly with the Sheen proc. Is the 25% AS difference from PD damning enough?

Again, I'm pretty herp derp tired atm.


Trinity was like one of those recommended items or something from her champion spotlight if I remember correctly. Of course, it just hasn't been found to be most optimal for her since she needs good sustained or pure damage to nuke people down.
Prev 1 21 22 23 24 25 162 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
08:00
QMC 2: Invitational Tournament
CranKy Ducklings106
ChoboTeamLeague
06:30
Best Games SC
Discussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft271
RuFF_SC2 211
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2928
GuemChi 1437
ProTech181
Bisu 181
Force[name] 8
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm234
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift6210
Counter-Strike
fl0m2634
taco 388
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King215
Other Games
summit1g14629
JimRising 535
Maynarde146
JuggernautJason23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1051
Counter-Strike
PGL353
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP197
• Mapu124
• Hupsaiya 106
• Berry_CruncH84
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo538
Other Games
• Scarra1007
• Shiphtur272
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Weekly
8h 7m
Ultimate Battle
8h 7m
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
19h 7m
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
1d 9h
PiGosaur Cup
1d 21h
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
herO vs Rogue
Reynor vs Solar
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs MaxPax
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
IPSL
5 days
WorsT vs nOmaD
Dewalt vs andersOn
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
IPSL
6 days
Azhi_Dahaki vs ggnore13
Double vs WIZARD
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-01
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

1xBet Invitational
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.