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On August 26 2012 07:54 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 07:32 Craton wrote:
If you've played any amount of normal and draft games, you'll find your Elo between the two is actually pretty similar.
You can't actually see it any more because fuck Riot (they disabled it after someone made a site / program to show it), but at the time you could look at people and they were generally +/- 150. Those who were further away than that were usually higher in normals than in ranked). like me T.T on another topic.... anyways, i dunno why u guys are all discrediting vaporized for his rengar screen. Sure, I don't necessarily agree with the logic/math behind most of his builds, but you can't just mindlessly declare 5+ wins in a row on rengar as being useless information, regardless of whether it's normals or not. Clearly, he's doing something that's working.
Because on the one hand we have samples of thousands of games on lolking that show Rengar is god awful, and on the other you have a low level person who stomped some normal games and believes since he can do it at a low level a person better than him can do the same thing at a high level. Since TL is an intelligent community, they tend to go with the data over anecdotal evidence (and poor anecdotal evidence at that IMO).
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On August 26 2012 09:12 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 07:54 barbsq wrote:On August 26 2012 07:32 Craton wrote:
If you've played any amount of normal and draft games, you'll find your Elo between the two is actually pretty similar.
You can't actually see it any more because fuck Riot (they disabled it after someone made a site / program to show it), but at the time you could look at people and they were generally +/- 150. Those who were further away than that were usually higher in normals than in ranked). like me T.T on another topic.... anyways, i dunno why u guys are all discrediting vaporized for his rengar screen. Sure, I don't necessarily agree with the logic/math behind most of his builds, but you can't just mindlessly declare 5+ wins in a row on rengar as being useless information, regardless of whether it's normals or not. Clearly, he's doing something that's working. Because one the one hand we have samples of thousands of games on lolking that show Rengar is god awful, and on the other you have a low level person who stomped some normal games and believes since he can do it at a low level a person better than him can do the same thing at a high level. Since TL is an intelligent community, they tend to go with the data over anecdotal evidence (and poor anecdotal evidence at that IMO).
At the same time it isn't fair to just write off the champion either.
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On August 26 2012 09:18 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:12 Feartheguru wrote:On August 26 2012 07:54 barbsq wrote:On August 26 2012 07:32 Craton wrote:
If you've played any amount of normal and draft games, you'll find your Elo between the two is actually pretty similar.
You can't actually see it any more because fuck Riot (they disabled it after someone made a site / program to show it), but at the time you could look at people and they were generally +/- 150. Those who were further away than that were usually higher in normals than in ranked). like me T.T on another topic.... anyways, i dunno why u guys are all discrediting vaporized for his rengar screen. Sure, I don't necessarily agree with the logic/math behind most of his builds, but you can't just mindlessly declare 5+ wins in a row on rengar as being useless information, regardless of whether it's normals or not. Clearly, he's doing something that's working. Because one the one hand we have samples of thousands of games on lolking that show Rengar is god awful, and on the other you have a low level person who stomped some normal games and believes since he can do it at a low level a person better than him can do the same thing at a high level. Since TL is an intelligent community, they tend to go with the data over anecdotal evidence (and poor anecdotal evidence at that IMO). At the same time it isn't fair to just write off the champion either.
For what reason would one not write off a champ that's obviously UP until he gets a buff? He's clearly not a high skill cap diamond in the rough like Cass that no one plays right at first.
The only argument I've seen is the:
"He's been out so soon no one knows how to play him yet"
Which I think is pretty funny cause when a strong champ is released:
"He's been out so soon no one knows how to counter him yet"
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Well, it's not like, y'know, Riven was so underpowered when she came out, obviously she needed that hotfix badly since people weren't doing well with her.
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On August 26 2012 09:12 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 07:54 barbsq wrote:On August 26 2012 07:32 Craton wrote:
If you've played any amount of normal and draft games, you'll find your Elo between the two is actually pretty similar.
You can't actually see it any more because fuck Riot (they disabled it after someone made a site / program to show it), but at the time you could look at people and they were generally +/- 150. Those who were further away than that were usually higher in normals than in ranked). like me T.T on another topic.... anyways, i dunno why u guys are all discrediting vaporized for his rengar screen. Sure, I don't necessarily agree with the logic/math behind most of his builds, but you can't just mindlessly declare 5+ wins in a row on rengar as being useless information, regardless of whether it's normals or not. Clearly, he's doing something that's working. Because on the one hand we have samples of thousands of games on lolking that show Rengar is god awful, and on the other you have a low level person who stomped some normal games and believes since he can do it at a low level a person better than him can do the same thing at a high level. Since TL is an intelligent community, they tend to go with the data over anecdotal evidence (and poor anecdotal evidence at that IMO).
No, you don't.
Stop drawing conclusions that aren't supported by the data.
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On August 26 2012 09:22 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:18 iCanada wrote:On August 26 2012 09:12 Feartheguru wrote:On August 26 2012 07:54 barbsq wrote:On August 26 2012 07:32 Craton wrote:
If you've played any amount of normal and draft games, you'll find your Elo between the two is actually pretty similar.
You can't actually see it any more because fuck Riot (they disabled it after someone made a site / program to show it), but at the time you could look at people and they were generally +/- 150. Those who were further away than that were usually higher in normals than in ranked). like me T.T on another topic.... anyways, i dunno why u guys are all discrediting vaporized for his rengar screen. Sure, I don't necessarily agree with the logic/math behind most of his builds, but you can't just mindlessly declare 5+ wins in a row on rengar as being useless information, regardless of whether it's normals or not. Clearly, he's doing something that's working. Because one the one hand we have samples of thousands of games on lolking that show Rengar is god awful, and on the other you have a low level person who stomped some normal games and believes since he can do it at a low level a person better than him can do the same thing at a high level. Since TL is an intelligent community, they tend to go with the data over anecdotal evidence (and poor anecdotal evidence at that IMO). At the same time it isn't fair to just write off the champion either. For what reason would one not write off a champ that's obviously UP until he gets a buff? He's clearly not a high skill cap diamond in the rough like Cass that no one plays right at first. The only argument I've seen is the: "He's been out so soon no one knows how to play him yet" Which I think is pretty funny cause when a strong champ is released: "He's been out so soon no one knows how to counter him yet"
You mean like they disregarded Viktor, Irelia, or Shyvana?
Its not like playing Irelia is hard either.
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Regnar isnt neccesary UP. i agree its to early to tell and i applaud Vaporized for trying but I do agree stomping a bunch of people in Unranked games doesnt mean anything.
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On August 26 2012 09:25 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:22 Feartheguru wrote:On August 26 2012 09:18 iCanada wrote:On August 26 2012 09:12 Feartheguru wrote:On August 26 2012 07:54 barbsq wrote:On August 26 2012 07:32 Craton wrote:
If you've played any amount of normal and draft games, you'll find your Elo between the two is actually pretty similar.
You can't actually see it any more because fuck Riot (they disabled it after someone made a site / program to show it), but at the time you could look at people and they were generally +/- 150. Those who were further away than that were usually higher in normals than in ranked). like me T.T on another topic.... anyways, i dunno why u guys are all discrediting vaporized for his rengar screen. Sure, I don't necessarily agree with the logic/math behind most of his builds, but you can't just mindlessly declare 5+ wins in a row on rengar as being useless information, regardless of whether it's normals or not. Clearly, he's doing something that's working. Because one the one hand we have samples of thousands of games on lolking that show Rengar is god awful, and on the other you have a low level person who stomped some normal games and believes since he can do it at a low level a person better than him can do the same thing at a high level. Since TL is an intelligent community, they tend to go with the data over anecdotal evidence (and poor anecdotal evidence at that IMO). At the same time it isn't fair to just write off the champion either. For what reason would one not write off a champ that's obviously UP until he gets a buff? He's clearly not a high skill cap diamond in the rough like Cass that no one plays right at first. The only argument I've seen is the: "He's been out so soon no one knows how to play him yet" Which I think is pretty funny cause when a strong champ is released: "He's been out so soon no one knows how to counter him yet" You mean like they disregarded Viktor, Irelia, or Shyvana? Its not like playing Irelia is hard either.
Being considered OK often leads to people realizing they are good after a while. This applies to whoever made the point about Riven too. There has never been a champ considered god awful at release that did not get buffed.
On August 26 2012 09:24 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:12 Feartheguru wrote:On August 26 2012 07:54 barbsq wrote:On August 26 2012 07:32 Craton wrote:
If you've played any amount of normal and draft games, you'll find your Elo between the two is actually pretty similar.
You can't actually see it any more because fuck Riot (they disabled it after someone made a site / program to show it), but at the time you could look at people and they were generally +/- 150. Those who were further away than that were usually higher in normals than in ranked). like me T.T on another topic.... anyways, i dunno why u guys are all discrediting vaporized for his rengar screen. Sure, I don't necessarily agree with the logic/math behind most of his builds, but you can't just mindlessly declare 5+ wins in a row on rengar as being useless information, regardless of whether it's normals or not. Clearly, he's doing something that's working. Because on the one hand we have samples of thousands of games on lolking that show Rengar is god awful, and on the other you have a low level person who stomped some normal games and believes since he can do it at a low level a person better than him can do the same thing at a high level. Since TL is an intelligent community, they tend to go with the data over anecdotal evidence (and poor anecdotal evidence at that IMO). No, you don't. Stop drawing conclusions that aren't supported by the data.
Yes, I do. A few thousand random samples is completely sound data.
Stop drawing conclusions that aren't supported by anything.
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On August 26 2012 09:11 gtrsrs wrote:
well vaporized there's also that small thing where you're kind of an unranked player, i could probably play a champ for the first time and go 20-1 as well at your level. you're playing a champ that you have an intrinsic advantage of knowing rengar's abilities when no one else does (i still haven't seen him in a game). you can't really qualify 5 NORMAL wins against unprepared and bad opponents as anything, tbh
i mean you can, but you're going to continue to be mocked
any time your build is based on getting fed, you're going to be mocked
any time you build more offense than defense, on a melee champ, you're going to (first, never gain elo, and second,) continue to be mocked
you can play victim but let's be real, your builds are bad and better players are telling you why. you don't have to be a martyr about it just start building champs better
let it be noted, that i as have never seen rengar in a game yet, i don't know if your build is bad. this post is just directed toward your general "I WIN 5 GAMES I'M A BEAST AT THIS CHAMP HERE'S MY PRO BUILD" attitude
i have 66% wins with skarner in 100 games, i have 70+% wins with shyvana in 45 games in ranked. if i really cared about my elo i would only play those champs and i would probably be higher.
i have wins with more then half of the 90 champs i own in ranked. i get bored of always playing the same ones over and over.
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On August 26 2012 09:32 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:11 gtrsrs wrote:
well vaporized there's also that small thing where you're kind of an unranked player, i could probably play a champ for the first time and go 20-1 as well at your level. you're playing a champ that you have an intrinsic advantage of knowing rengar's abilities when no one else does (i still haven't seen him in a game). you can't really qualify 5 NORMAL wins against unprepared and bad opponents as anything, tbh
i mean you can, but you're going to continue to be mocked
any time your build is based on getting fed, you're going to be mocked
any time you build more offense than defense, on a melee champ, you're going to (first, never gain elo, and second,) continue to be mocked
you can play victim but let's be real, your builds are bad and better players are telling you why. you don't have to be a martyr about it just start building champs better
let it be noted, that i as have never seen rengar in a game yet, i don't know if your build is bad. this post is just directed toward your general "I WIN 5 GAMES I'M A BEAST AT THIS CHAMP HERE'S MY PRO BUILD" attitude i have 66% wins with skarner in 100 games, i have 70+% wins with shyvana in 45 games in ranked. if i really cared about my elo i would only play those champs and i would probably be higher. i have wins with more then half of the 90 champs i own in ranked. i get bored of always playing the same ones over and over.
Not necessarily a true assumption since as your elo rises your win rates with those champs are expected to decrees. Since you've hung around the same elo you win rates are at that elo. At one point I was 15/0 with Ezrael, that doesn't mean if I only played Ezrael I'd be #1 ranked NA.
Not saying anything about your skill level or whether you can rise or not, just talking about the issue with your reasoning
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On August 26 2012 09:32 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:11 gtrsrs wrote:
well vaporized there's also that small thing where you're kind of an unranked player, i could probably play a champ for the first time and go 20-1 as well at your level. you're playing a champ that you have an intrinsic advantage of knowing rengar's abilities when no one else does (i still haven't seen him in a game). you can't really qualify 5 NORMAL wins against unprepared and bad opponents as anything, tbh
i mean you can, but you're going to continue to be mocked
any time your build is based on getting fed, you're going to be mocked
any time you build more offense than defense, on a melee champ, you're going to (first, never gain elo, and second,) continue to be mocked
you can play victim but let's be real, your builds are bad and better players are telling you why. you don't have to be a martyr about it just start building champs better
let it be noted, that i as have never seen rengar in a game yet, i don't know if your build is bad. this post is just directed toward your general "I WIN 5 GAMES I'M A BEAST AT THIS CHAMP HERE'S MY PRO BUILD" attitude i have 66% wins with skarner in 100 games, i have 70+% wins with shyvana in 45 games in ranked. if i really cared about my elo i would only play those champs and i would probably be higher. i have wins with more then half of the 90 champs i own in ranked. i get bored of always playing the same ones over and over.
do you build bloodthirster, nashor's, phantom dancer on skarner?
do you build boots of mobility, deathcap, triforce on shyvana?
you probably build sensible things that others have tested and found to be true builds. that's why you have good winrates with those champions.
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On August 26 2012 09:37 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:32 Vaporized wrote:On August 26 2012 09:11 gtrsrs wrote:
well vaporized there's also that small thing where you're kind of an unranked player, i could probably play a champ for the first time and go 20-1 as well at your level. you're playing a champ that you have an intrinsic advantage of knowing rengar's abilities when no one else does (i still haven't seen him in a game). you can't really qualify 5 NORMAL wins against unprepared and bad opponents as anything, tbh
i mean you can, but you're going to continue to be mocked
any time your build is based on getting fed, you're going to be mocked
any time you build more offense than defense, on a melee champ, you're going to (first, never gain elo, and second,) continue to be mocked
you can play victim but let's be real, your builds are bad and better players are telling you why. you don't have to be a martyr about it just start building champs better
let it be noted, that i as have never seen rengar in a game yet, i don't know if your build is bad. this post is just directed toward your general "I WIN 5 GAMES I'M A BEAST AT THIS CHAMP HERE'S MY PRO BUILD" attitude i have 66% wins with skarner in 100 games, i have 70+% wins with shyvana in 45 games in ranked. if i really cared about my elo i would only play those champs and i would probably be higher. i have wins with more then half of the 90 champs i own in ranked. i get bored of always playing the same ones over and over. Not necessarily a true assumption since as your elo rises your win rates with those champs are expected to decrees. Since you've hung around the same elo you win rates are at that elo. At one point I was 15/0 with Ezrael, that doesn't mean if I only played Ezrael I'd be #1 ranked NA. Not saying anything about your skill level or whether you can rise or not, just talking about the issue with your reasoning
well it doesnt help when i go on a ~30 game ad malz binge. im 18-19 with malz in ranked, and all but one of those games were as ad.
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On August 26 2012 09:39 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:32 Vaporized wrote:On August 26 2012 09:11 gtrsrs wrote:
well vaporized there's also that small thing where you're kind of an unranked player, i could probably play a champ for the first time and go 20-1 as well at your level. you're playing a champ that you have an intrinsic advantage of knowing rengar's abilities when no one else does (i still haven't seen him in a game). you can't really qualify 5 NORMAL wins against unprepared and bad opponents as anything, tbh
i mean you can, but you're going to continue to be mocked
any time your build is based on getting fed, you're going to be mocked
any time you build more offense than defense, on a melee champ, you're going to (first, never gain elo, and second,) continue to be mocked
you can play victim but let's be real, your builds are bad and better players are telling you why. you don't have to be a martyr about it just start building champs better
let it be noted, that i as have never seen rengar in a game yet, i don't know if your build is bad. this post is just directed toward your general "I WIN 5 GAMES I'M A BEAST AT THIS CHAMP HERE'S MY PRO BUILD" attitude i have 66% wins with skarner in 100 games, i have 70+% wins with shyvana in 45 games in ranked. if i really cared about my elo i would only play those champs and i would probably be higher. i have wins with more then half of the 90 champs i own in ranked. i get bored of always playing the same ones over and over. do you build bloodthirster, nashor's, phantom dancer on skarner? do you build boots of mobility, deathcap, triforce on shyvana? you probably build sensible things that others have tested and found to be true builds. that's why you have good winrates with those champions.
yeah a few weeks ago you made me look for a way to ignore people here. you continue to be a beacon of intelligence and wit.
saying you should only follow 'true' builds (TRUE LOL) is about the dumbest thing ive heard all day, congratulations.
and just for the record my 2nd most played champ is sejuani. i have a greater then 50% win rate, and the highest k/d/a ratio of all the champs i play on sejuani. i have built frozen mallet in each and every one of those games.
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i would love to take this to the TL grudge match thread but i shut down the last guy so hard that it looked like a personal attack more than shutting up a bad and the thread had to be closed 
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Yes, I do. A few thousand random samples is completely sound data.
Stop drawing conclusions that aren't supported by anything.
No you don't, 3 days of "data collecting" don't conclude or prove anything.
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On August 26 2012 09:31 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:25 iCanada wrote:On August 26 2012 09:22 Feartheguru wrote:On August 26 2012 09:18 iCanada wrote:On August 26 2012 09:12 Feartheguru wrote:On August 26 2012 07:54 barbsq wrote:On August 26 2012 07:32 Craton wrote:
If you've played any amount of normal and draft games, you'll find your Elo between the two is actually pretty similar.
You can't actually see it any more because fuck Riot (they disabled it after someone made a site / program to show it), but at the time you could look at people and they were generally +/- 150. Those who were further away than that were usually higher in normals than in ranked). like me T.T on another topic.... anyways, i dunno why u guys are all discrediting vaporized for his rengar screen. Sure, I don't necessarily agree with the logic/math behind most of his builds, but you can't just mindlessly declare 5+ wins in a row on rengar as being useless information, regardless of whether it's normals or not. Clearly, he's doing something that's working. Because one the one hand we have samples of thousands of games on lolking that show Rengar is god awful, and on the other you have a low level person who stomped some normal games and believes since he can do it at a low level a person better than him can do the same thing at a high level. Since TL is an intelligent community, they tend to go with the data over anecdotal evidence (and poor anecdotal evidence at that IMO). At the same time it isn't fair to just write off the champion either. For what reason would one not write off a champ that's obviously UP until he gets a buff? He's clearly not a high skill cap diamond in the rough like Cass that no one plays right at first. The only argument I've seen is the: "He's been out so soon no one knows how to play him yet" Which I think is pretty funny cause when a strong champ is released: "He's been out so soon no one knows how to counter him yet" You mean like they disregarded Viktor, Irelia, or Shyvana? Its not like playing Irelia is hard either. Being considered OK often leads to people realizing they are good after a while. This applies to whoever made the point about Riven too. There has never been a champ considered god awful at release that did not get buffed.
Consensus has it that it was realized afterwards that Riven didn't need the buffs at all and was fine, people simply had no idea how to build her.
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noob question is there any indication to tell if gragas' passive is done its healing
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On August 26 2012 09:39 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 09:32 Vaporized wrote:On August 26 2012 09:11 gtrsrs wrote:
well vaporized there's also that small thing where you're kind of an unranked player, i could probably play a champ for the first time and go 20-1 as well at your level. you're playing a champ that you have an intrinsic advantage of knowing rengar's abilities when no one else does (i still haven't seen him in a game). you can't really qualify 5 NORMAL wins against unprepared and bad opponents as anything, tbh
i mean you can, but you're going to continue to be mocked
any time your build is based on getting fed, you're going to be mocked
any time you build more offense than defense, on a melee champ, you're going to (first, never gain elo, and second,) continue to be mocked
you can play victim but let's be real, your builds are bad and better players are telling you why. you don't have to be a martyr about it just start building champs better
let it be noted, that i as have never seen rengar in a game yet, i don't know if your build is bad. this post is just directed toward your general "I WIN 5 GAMES I'M A BEAST AT THIS CHAMP HERE'S MY PRO BUILD" attitude i have 66% wins with skarner in 100 games, i have 70+% wins with shyvana in 45 games in ranked. if i really cared about my elo i would only play those champs and i would probably be higher. i have wins with more then half of the 90 champs i own in ranked. i get bored of always playing the same ones over and over. do you build bloodthirster, nashor's, phantom dancer on skarner? do you build boots of mobility, deathcap, triforce on shyvana? you probably build sensible things that others have tested and found to be true builds. that's why you have good winrates with those champions.
He never said he had some revolutionary build or anything, or even that his build was good. All he did was post a match history and make a satirical post aimed at the people that say that Rengar sucks.
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On August 26 2012 09:50 Mementoss wrote:
noob question is there any indication to tell if gragas' passive is done its healing
There's an active buff above your spells that lasts 4 seconds and looks like a mug.
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United States37500 Posts
On August 26 2012 09:50 Mementoss wrote:
noob question is there any indication to tell if gragas' passive is done its healing
There's a icon with a timer right above your skills.
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EPT
