EPT[Patch 1.0.0.144: Diana] General Discussion - Page 177
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Hyren
United States817 Posts
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TheLink
Australia2725 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 15 2012 00:21 Hyren wrote: With regards to the 1v2 lanes, doesn't the team running the standard ad carry/support bot have a pretty nice advantage when it comes to taking early dragons? Only if top lane doesn't choose to come down for Dragon, which is exceedingly not the case these days. | ||
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:33 NeoIllusions wrote: Dead horse is dead. Effective immediately, I will warn the first person who brings up GP10 discussion in GD. I swear we just had this run around 24 hours, when I first checked TL in the morning yesterday. LO AND BEHOLD, HERE IT IS AGAIN TODAY. Warning is simply a formality, because people really need to move on to new things to talk about. Even the Diana talk prior to "is HoG popular?!" was more interesting. Maybe list TL's general consensus on gp10's and make it its own thread. Searching gp10 as of now only lead to a bunch of posts in General Discussion, most of them being "it's already discussed" and those who don't frequent the thread as much get nothing out of that unless they sift through every post (too many to count) and the discussion gets brought up yet again. From what I've read a while back, gp10's should only be gotten if you are really ahead (to get more ahead) or really behind (to somehow mitigate the gold loss from being denied hard). If matchup is about even just get damage items or whatever helps you keep even with your lane opponent instead of gp10's since they gimp you. Is that about right After the nerf to stats of gp10 items I haven't kept up with the discussion, but I would expect them to be even less worthwhile than before. As for junglers I still see philo and hog built on tanky ones like amumu and mao but people have been saying skip the hog and just go wardens mail if you're going to build a randuins anyway, so idk Still think gp10 deserves its own thread to make whatever was discussed more accessible rather than spread out in separate General Discussion threads with every patch that are littered with "it's already been discussed". Nobody wants to sift through irrelevant stuff to get what they want through a search engine. Or maybe I'm just using it wrong, search engine "gymnastics" are not for the computer illiterate like myself. A separate thread should still temporarily alleviate the symptom of having this thing from incessantly popping up and saving the posters and mods some headache. Someone should step up and make "The TL Guide to GP10's" or something. Of course having super specifics in the respective champion thread is encouraged, but having them in one place as well helps with the transparency and accessibility to combat the flood that is General Discussion. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On August 15 2012 00:30 riotjune wrote: Maybe list TL's general consensus on gp10's and make it its own thread. Searching gp10 as of now only lead to a bunch of posts in General Discussion, most of them being "it's already discussed" and those who don't frequent the thread as much get nothing out of that unless they sift through every post (too many to count) and the discussion gets brought up yet again. From what I've read a while back, gp10's should only be gotten if you are really ahead (to get more ahead) or really behind (to somehow mitigate the gold loss from being denied hard). If matchup is about even just get damage items or whatever helps you keep even with your lane opponent instead of gp10's since they gimp you. Is that about right After the nerf to stats of gp10 items I haven't kept up with the discussion, but I would expect them to be even less worthwhile than before. As for junglers I still see philo and hog built on tanky ones like amumu and mao but people have been saying skip the hog and just go wardens mail if you're going to build a randuins anyway, so idk Still think gp10 deserves its own thread to make whatever was discussed more accessible rather than spread out in separate General Discussion threads with every patch that are littered with "it's already been discussed". Nobody wants to sift through irrelevant stuff to get what they want through a search engine. Or maybe I'm just using it wrong, search engine "gymnastics" are not for the computer illiterate like myself. A separate thread should still temporarily alleviate the symptom of having this thing from incessantly popping up and saving the posters and mods some headache. Someone should step up and make "The TL Guide to GP10's" or something. Of course having super specifics in the respective champion thread is encouraged, but having them in one place as well helps with the transparency and accessibility to combat the flood that is General Discussion. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=224651 Use search, gain knowledge. With the exception of updating HoG's nerf from last patch, Smash has done all the mathcrafting from a year ago. I would be more than happy if all GP10 discussion stayed in that thread. I really need to get out that 10 commandment list soon but it looks near impossible with this month's tournament schedule. zzz | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
I know pro players obviously know timings when the ganks should occur but I see so many ridiculously long camps where the guy suspects that someone is there and doesn't want to go for a cs and ends up falling behind anyway and than when he comes out after like a minute a fucking mao flashes out of the bush lol. I can't remember the game but I think it was either hotshot or someone else that stood in the top lane brush for literally almost 2 minutes with lvl 3 waiting for the irelia to just come for a cs. That's at least what I think,maybe I'm dead wrong tho. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 15 2012 00:26 TheYango wrote: Only if top lane doesn't choose to come down for Dragon, which is exceedingly not the case these days. Sometimes you'll even see only the support come down. AD carries aren't exactly at their most terrifying that early in the game. Teams can't just dragon off of nothing either. Starting dragon before 10 minutes is like doing baron in the later stages in the game. It hurts whoever is tanking it quite a bit, so if you don't have a positional advantage to take it off of, it can be VERY risky to do so, even with the enemy ADC+support top. They can also possibly just free-grab top turret in response. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:53 jcarlsoniv wrote: If by "TSM" you meant to say "Azubu Blaze" Edit: We (TL B) discovered that Viktor has some merit against this strat. We encountered a team twice in arranged 5s who used it (I think Gandhi said it was guys Ehomda plays with?), and I played Viktor against it both times. The strat really pushes a low econ game. All Viktor needs to shut down a push is 2k gold (2 dring + death augment). They kept trying to 5 man push mid, but as long as I had at least a couple of my teammates with me, they couldn't dive, and our AD carry (jcc) could farm all the while. Granted, there were definite misplays on their part (but also ours). I do like the Viktor pick against it though, although I may be biased. You could say the same for a lot of AP with clearing power, I don't think it's specific to viktor.... You could essentially do the same thing with a morgana.... | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 15 2012 02:02 wei2coolman wrote: You could say the same for a lot of AP with clearing power, I don't think it's specific to viktor.... You could essentially do the same thing with a morgana.... Morgana's clear is pretty slow. Viktor instantly clears with just 2k gold. Not only that, but his stun is a very powerful zoning tool. Imo, the biggest counter to the push heavy strat are champs with insta-clear potential at low income that also have some form of zoning ability. Anivia comes to mind along with Viktor. It's possibly why CLG.eu have such success against Korean teams. Then again, CLG.eu are also the masters of the turtle strat. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On August 15 2012 02:07 BlackPaladin wrote: If they push hard enough morgana can't. Viktor is one of the few champs that can instaclear waves on low gold income. Right. We're not talking about a situation where you can leisurely control the wave for ideal spell positioning, we're talking about a situation where there are five aggressive opponents waiting to take you and your tower down the moment you stray too close. There are a lot of APs who can clear in this scenario provided they have their entire team to back them up, but very few who can do it both on low income and with a numbers disadvantage. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 15 2012 02:15 Seuss wrote: Right. We're not talking about a situation where you can leisurely control the wave for ideal spell positioning, we're talking about a situation where there are five aggressive opponents waiting to take you and your tower down the moment you stray too close. There are a lot of APs who can clear in this scenario provided they have their entire team to back them up, but very few who can do it both on low income and with a numbers disadvantage. Even if morg pushes slowly in comparison, she can catch people under towers, a lot harder than most, not to mention the main part is that she can delay the push fast enough for the rest of your teammates to make it a fair 5v5. | ||
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
On August 15 2012 02:22 wei2coolman wrote: Even if morg pushes slowly in comparison, she can catch people under towers, a lot harder than most, not to mention the main part is that she can delay the push fast enough for the rest of your teammates to make it a fair 5v5. Viktor does that even better with his AoE stun. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On August 15 2012 02:22 wei2coolman wrote: Even if morg pushes slowly in comparison, she can catch people under towers, a lot harder than most, not to mention the main part is that she can delay the push fast enough for the rest of your teammates to make it a fair 5v5. First off...no, Viktor can definitely catch people under tower better (ambiguous orb of stun > single target skill shot root) And the point isn't to stall for a fair fight. The point is to completely shut down a push at a numbers disadvantage. Viktor, with the back up of 2 people, can hold a turret 3v5 for almost as long as he wants (barring mana problems). This gives the other 2 members of the team as much time as they want to farm or exert other map control. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 15 2012 02:25 BlackPaladin wrote: Viktor does that even better with his AoE stun. Depends. Most people are a lot more wary of Dark Binding, since you can bait out and escape from Gravity Field (Zone? Can never remember), or can ever dash through it if you have a requisite ability. Plus, Morg ult (even better if she gets Zhonya early) basically stops most dives or pushes dead if well done. Vik W is super good too, though, and can't be blocked or what not. I've used it to waste a lot of Flashes. Edit for no double post: http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/y7j04/my_concerns_about_riots_thoughts_of_buffing_the/ Interesting, sounds like Kat is our second AP melee jungler to come out after her rework. Manaless always a bonus too, and dat gapcloser. If it's actually good as Saint says it is, could be a terror. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 15 2012 01:45 clickrush wrote: I honestly think dragon should only ever be taken midgame when there is nothing to do at all by at most 2 ppl or so. I would rather ignore dragon completely and allways push lanes/turrets to get more mapcontrol after a successfull gank/skirmish. It's a lot easier to take Dragon quickly than it is to shove down a tower, particularly if the lanes are pushed against you and there isn't clearly an easy lane to push to tower. On August 15 2012 02:26 jcarlsoniv wrote: And the point isn't to stall for a fair fight. The point is to completely shut down a push at a numbers disadvantage. Viktor, with the back up of 2 people, can hold a turret 3v5 for almost as long as he wants (barring mana problems). This gives the other 2 members of the team as much time as they want to farm or exert other map control. Precisely this. If you're meeting every 5v5 push with 5, then you're playing exactly the way the push comp wants you to. Even if they don't successfully take the tower in one go, being able to force your entire team to come if they all appear in one lane means that they can build up creep pressure in 2 lanes, force the 3rd, and because you have to stop them as 5, force you to lose farm in those other 2 lanes. They can then turn around, farm their lanes when the lanes push back, and repeat. Even if the tower doesn't go down, they net a farm advantage forcing you to come and sit under your tower. They dynamic changes signficantly if you have a champion that can control the push like Viktor does. Being able to defend with 4 or 3 puts the pressure on the pushing team because they have 1 champion (most likely their carry) farming, and pushing out all the lanes. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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Lounge
537 Posts
http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/y7j04/my_concerns_about_riots_thoughts_of_buffing_the/ Interesting, sounds like Kat is our second AP melee jungler to come out after her rework. Manaless always a bonus too, and dat gapcloser. If it's actually good as Saint says it is, could be a terror. I think Kat jungle runs into the same problem Jax jungle does. He's not getting Gunblade Triforce out of the jungle, she's not getting Gunblade Deathcap out of the jungle. In addition he has hard CC and still isn't seen. Although, comparing shunpo to leap strike and her new w beating up melees does make me wonder if she could be played top. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 15 2012 03:07 WaveofShadow wrote: Kat jungle looks to be absolutely terrifying. Thank god she has no cc. Since I'm not on the PBE (and also at work), I'm just trying to imagine what her strengths/weaknesses are compared to Diana. Obviously manaless is a plus, and being able to use Shunpo as an escape (and also have it before 6) is very nice. But lacking the shield or any other defense may make her more dangerous to jungle until you get some AP for clearing or at least Spellvamp for sustain. | ||
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