EPTokay well....>.> I guess I'm done with TL for the next hour or so.
[Patch 1.0.0.144: Diana] General Discussion - Page 175
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
okay well....>.> I guess I'm done with TL for the next hour or so. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:06 Sponkz wrote: Philo gives cost-efficient mana regen, but i just personally dislike reverie on supports, as i feel junglers should have 1. And HP > Regen when it comes to laning, because you're not trading like in a solo lane, it's more up-front trades that results in kills which happens in duo lanes (from my experience at least). 1) Reverie isn't an item that should be restricted to one-of. Double Reverie is actually very powerful if used correctly. 2) Even in laning situations where you feel having survivability is superior to regen, there's virtually no way to justify HoG over Ruby+Cloth. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:06 Celial wrote: Philo doesn't help you in a gank. HoG does. You just won't die in a single CC. And what happens when you get harassed a bit? Like, 200 health worth of harass? Regen is rather nice to have. Your carry has a bit of lifesteal and is last hitting, what do you have? Are you just gonna spam pots? Or play so far back that you can't do anything except heal/shield the carry? In which case, how are you so out of position that you die from a gank? Don't you have wards to warn of the gank? "HOG helps me survive a gank" is pretty anecdotal. Try it. Philo and straight into aegis parts or kindlegem. The feeling you get when you actually can build your support items before the 30 minute mark is GREAT. (I do run gold gen quints and the greed mastery, though.) You have a lot more meat on your bones than from a HOG too. When you have 2 reveries, it usually ends up that the jungler reverie gets popped on the initiation, and yours will get popped as either an OH SHI-- team retreat or to let teammates reposition, chase, kite, or whatever. If you're not both popping your reverie in a teamfight, you could be doing better in those teamfights - even if you're winning them, you could be winning them HARDER. Besides, CDR synergizes exceptionally with pretty much every single support's kit. Kindlegem items rock. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:06 Celial wrote: Philo doesn't help you in a gank. HoG does. You just won't die in a single CC. Ruby Chrystal does the same as HoG though. On August 14 2012 23:06 Sponkz wrote: Philo gives cost-efficient mana regen, but i just personally dislike reverie on supports, as i feel junglers should have 1. And HP > Regen when it comes to laning, because you're not trading like in a solo lane, it's more up-front trades that results in kills which happens in duo lanes (from my experience at least). If the jungler gets Oracles AND Reverie and can still fight at the front lines, something is wrong with your enemies' focus. Or the jungler is just way fed/OP. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23448 Posts
Philo is better in jungle when regen is always useful. It's counterintuitive but it's better to go philo first on jungler and hog first on support (well, not current hog, but if it was better then sure) | ||
Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:17 Slayer91 wrote: You can't buy philo first on supports like sona because you die to the taric/graves leona/corki blitz type stuff. You NEED that ruby crystal and generally going ruby-->philo is less tempting than just spending 350 gold for the gp10 for a lot of people I guess. I played the last few days sona quite often and dont think thats true (1300 elo on kr server). At least I never had problems against taric and blitz. Infact I really like blitz because you can harass them easily out of lane. mana reg thing +wards+hp pot -> philo - boots- ruby - aegis - zeke and something else. Thanks to ult and q poke you harass them hard out lane and just stand behind creeps against blitz. Leona I cant tell never met one. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23448 Posts
Also I dislike buying zekes on sona because she scales so much better than standard zekes supports (blitz taric nunu) that getting shurelyas for the mana regen is much better especially if you plan on getting chalice. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:17 Slayer91 wrote: You can't buy philo first on supports like sona because you die to the taric/graves leona/corki blitz type stuff. You NEED that ruby crystal and generally going ruby-->philo i guess is better but people are used to wanting that fast gp10 and 350 is cheaper than 620. Philo is better in jungle when regen is always useful. It's counterintuitive but it's better to go philo first on jungler and hog first on support (well, not current hog, but if it was better then sure) That's the problem. Since the beginning of time, people have over-valued the gp10. It's a nice boost to the cost-efficiency of an item. But in and of itself, gp10 doesn't redeem an item that's otherwise trash. And if "825 gold for 200 HP" doesn't scream "trash item" to you, I don't know what does. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:17 Slayer91 wrote: You can't buy philo first on supports like sona because you die to the taric/graves leona/corki blitz type stuff. You NEED that ruby crystal and generally going ruby-->philo i guess is better but people are used to wanting that fast gp10 and 350 is cheaper than 620. Philo is better in jungle when regen is always useful. It's counterintuitive but it's better to go philo first on jungler and hog first on support (well, not current hog, but if it was better then sure) VS high aggro lanes I'm not going to expect a single HOG to keep me alive if I get grabbed or stunned out of position. Besides, Sona should be trying to play the harass war, which means you're going to eat return harass from the carry. Which means philo is VERY nice to have (regen so you dont whittle YOURSELF down, mana regen so you can actually continue pressing Q/powerchords.) The fuck is the HOG going to do anyway once I build it? Upgrade to a locket of iron solari at the 45 minute mark? Sure, it's made back its gold by then, but games are most often DECIDED in the 10-30 minute zone. I want my big items to be done before that zone is over. If I'm not upgrading a GP10 item, I don't want the GP10 item. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23448 Posts
I used build hog into randuins on sona when my jungler has aegis, otherwise I'd just leave it, hog kinda sucks now though so I dunno. What does 200 hp do you keeping you alive against being bursted? Gives you 200 hp. Pretty stupid. Basically if you grab and burst a support if you don't insta kill you'er screwed because your AD carry is free DPSing and you just get your ult q and power chord off and then flash out and W. Sona is the best harasser support and most kill lanes can't hope to win the harass war especially if your AD carry joins in but you don't neeed philo because 2 q+power chords traded with an AD carry makes him zoned because he's half hp and your carry can just stop him from csing after that. There's a difference from being grabbed/stunned out of position and their support simply stunning you at any opportunity and killing you. The higher max HP you have the more room you have to harass them. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:23 sylverfyre wrote: VS high aggro lanes I'm not going to expect a single HOG to keep me alive if I get grabbed or stunned out of position. Besides, Sona should be trying to play the harass war, which means you're going to eat return harass from the carry. Which means philo is VERY nice to have (regen so you dont whittle YOURSELF down, mana regen so you can actually continue pressing Q/powerchords.) The fuck is the HOG going to do anyway once I build it? Upgrade to a locket of iron solari at the 45 minute mark? Sure, it's made back its gold by then, but games are most often DECIDED in the 10-30 minute zone. I want my big items to be done before that zone is over. If I'm not upgrading a GP10 item, I don't want the GP10 item. To be fair a kindlegem or ruby crystal isnt going to keep you alive either. Once you turn that philostone into reverie what do you plan on doing? buying all the teams wards and oracles off of your default gp5? not likely. Getting HoG still not that bad imo (as evidenced by every top player still getting it?) | ||
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Zaphod Beeblebrox
Denmark697 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:06 Celial wrote: Philo doesn't help you in a gank. HoG does. You just won't die in a single CC. then get ruby crystal + mantle. Or kindlegem - same cost but gives CDR to help even more in ganks. HoG is a horrible item unless you need randuins later (and even then theres wardens). Philo is almost always better if you are playing passively and Kindlegem/Negatron/Vest are better if you need survivability. | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
Also, Locket really underrated. I do like it as a second or third item. Probably would not rush though. Shurelya and Aegis are just far too good. Oh, and stealing random jungle camps or empty lane creeps as the support is so good. Get a nice camp and it makes up for no HoG income instantly. | ||
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Chexx
Korea (South)11232 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:22 Slayer91 wrote: Put it this way the only way to beat sona is by bursting her (including ganks) so unless you never ever lose lane you should be buying hp. Till now I never lost lane as Sona. I now prioritize wards > gold/5 it allows a much safer lane and helps you to win the lane. Thats the most important part. http://www.lolking.net/summoner/kr/2174296#history can look my items up. I think I always had enough hp even if I got grabbed etc. btw if somebody wants to duo queue with me just message me  I really like playing support. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
It's almost always better to get another support item before it. | ||
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Simberto
Germany12039 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23448 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:27 Chexx wrote: Till now I never lost lane as Sona. I now prioritize wards > gold/5 it allows a much safer lane and helps you to win the lane. Thats the most important part. http://www.lolking.net/summoner/kr/2174296#history can look my items up. I think I always had enough hp even if I got grabbed etc. btw if somebody wants to duo queue with me just message me I really like playing support.If you've never lost a lane as sona i don't see how you can even make this argument you need to play sona games until you lose a lane.. Unless you see sona win every single lane in competitive play that is. Personally I think locket is horrible unless you buy it for early hp regen for like a cheesey 20 min push strat i would always save for randuins over locket because lategame randuins can literally win teamfights and locket is basically useless. AD carries tend to see supports as squishy and being able to run over and burst+randunis them and then run away cripples their damage output haha. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On August 14 2012 23:13 TheYango wrote: 1) Reverie isn't an item that should be restricted to one-of. Double Reverie is actually very powerful if used correctly. 2) Even in laning situations where you feel having survivability is superior to regen, there's virtually no way to justify HoG over Ruby+Cloth. 1) I wasn't talking arranged, but merely solo queue, in arranged i feel the same as you 2) I feel 1 gp10 is ok for lane, then i have no problem getting some cs to ensure me extra gold, should my team fall behind. | ||
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