EPT[Patch 1.0.0.144: Diana] General Discussion - Page 179
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On August 15 2012 05:33 cascades wrote: What happened to naut? nothing? | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 15 2012 05:15 wei2coolman wrote: The problem with current AP's, is that they require farm, and a lot of it. Jungle doesn't offer that kind of farm, so more often than not, they're usually underwhelming. 2 main approaches they can do with it, a) make it so the AP has a terrible lane kit, but amazing ratios, so you only need a small amount of AP to be effective (they did this once, amumu, and it turned out well for the most part). or b)have really nice base damage on the ability with poor AP ratios. I really haven't seen b) executed, something that i do want to see though The thing is, on those kind of champs, people don't build AP because it's not compelling in comparison to stuff like Triforce, Wit's, or defensive utility/aura items. So nobody considers them AP champs. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On August 15 2012 04:47 wei2coolman wrote: I think gunblade is going to be core on Kat in jungle, merely because of the slow active. As far as rageblade goes, if you build it after gunblade, it's going to feel fairly underwhelming, and I could definitely see people having a hard time keeping up into midgame. Slot efficiency isnt' an issue on AD bruisers, because of the huge variety of costs/powercurve issues from items. Most AP items offer nice build progression, along with slot efficiency. Not to mention, most AP's fall heavily behind in lategame, so any detriments you take due to slot efficiencies hit you even harder during later progression into the game. Abyssal is probably a more realistic goal after gunblade. or DFG. (also, rylais blows on kat). I think jungle kat is going to be pretty snowball reliant, there's no way for her to really function if she doesn't have the appropriate amount of farm/gold.... I'm going to spill some of my nascent, unrefined thoughts into this discussion because I think they are pertinent. I don't think the slow on Gunblade, or Cutlass, is worth it on Katarina. Getting to and sticking with an opponent aren't problems for her, especially with red buff, because she has both a gap closer and a speed boost. Gunblade's AP and AD are inferior to Rageblade, but cost a great deal more to get. Overall Gunblade is investing a lot of money in things Katarina either doesn't need or can find in greater quantities elsewhere. Part of the reason I think Gunblade is a poor item choice is because I think W>E>Q will be superior for jungle Katarina. My reasoning is:
With max E the slow from Gunblade isn't a critical necessity. Max E also represents a greater potential for auto-attacking, favoring Rageblade's Attack Speed. This concept leans much more toward a bruiser-like sustained damage model than the burst damage model Katarina is better known for. As of yet I'm not sure where to go from Rageblade + Aegis, whether I value Merc's or CDR boots more, and if the concept is actually sound in practical scenarios. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
Primarily, if you are planning on lane-swapping, why not pick an ADC and support that may usually have a tough time in lane but have really sick mid-late games? Edit: Also with Kat/Diana jungle can't you built her a little more tanky and plan ahead while having your mid or top build a WOTA so you get the AP and spellvamp? Or am I living ins a ridiculous triple AP world? | ||
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Leonite7
Ireland921 Posts
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On August 15 2012 05:33 cascades wrote: What happened to naut? They brought down his damage and bumped up his ult cooldown a few patches back I believe. Still viable, still some of the best CC in the game | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On August 15 2012 05:55 cLutZ wrote: I want to ask some better people about 2v1 lanes more. Primarily, if you are planning on lane-swapping, why not pick an ADC and support that may usually have a tough time in lane but have really sick mid-late games? Edit: Also with Kat/Diana jungle can't you built her a little more tanky and plan ahead while having your mid or top build a WOTA so you get the AP and spellvamp? Or am I living ins a ridiculous triple AP world? wave clear is really important for this style, not just for getting the tower first, but you want to force the bruiser/normal top lane to tank minions if he wants to engage or deny his tower, Vayne for instance on the surface makes a lot of sense and maybe if you paired her with lulu or janna it could work, but she cannot deny the bruiser as easily and if the other team has wave clear you aren't setting yourself to an advantage. | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On August 15 2012 05:36 TheYango wrote: The thing is, on those kind of champs, people don't build AP because it's not compelling in comparison to stuff like Triforce, Wit's, or defensive utility/aura items. So nobody considers them AP champs. On August 15 2012 05:41 wei2coolman wrote: Well still obviously have it balanced enough that people are convinced to build AP~. Having such a break even point would be the worst of both worlds most likely. You build non AP items on AP champions with poor ratios because the damage/gold return is better for building something like Wit's or CDR items like Frozen Heart than it is to build pure AP. Being able to live longer means your spells last longer and if your base damage really is that good, then you don't need to use AP anyways. On the other hand, if it was more gold efficient to build AP but your base stats are good enough that you could've build tanky and still done tons of damage, then with AP you will be doing OP amounts of damage. So the only way to have a champion with low AP ratios "forced" into building AP over survivability/CDR/Sheen is if your base numbers are bad. But who wants to play a champion with poor base damage and mediocre ratios? | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 15 2012 06:14 Slusher wrote: wave clear is really important for this style, not just for getting the tower first, but you want to force the bruiser/normal top lane to tank minions if he wants to engage or deny his tower, Vayne for instance on the surface makes a lot of sense and maybe if you paired her with lulu or janna it could work, but she cannot deny the bruiser as easily and if the other team has wave clear you aren't setting yourself to an advantage. I don't remember the tournament or game in particular, but someone I remember did a lane swap with Graves vs. Janna and just froze the lane and zoned Janna incredibly hard, which is where I got the idea. I feel like Vayne, Sivir, or Ashe could have zoned just as hard there (Ashe might be even more dangerous seeing as 1 AA or Multishot could get you a kill). | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On August 15 2012 06:05 Leonite7 wrote: So, ignore list, best feature in the game or best feature ever? Laugh spam bestest feature ever. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On August 15 2012 05:43 Seuss wrote:
With max E the slow from Gunblade isn't a critical necessity. Max E also represents a greater potential for auto-attacking, favoring Rageblade's Attack Speed. It was my understanding that on the PBE that Kat's E was a one point wonder as it had a flat 14 second CD no matter the level. Is that untrue? I'm still thinking funfire cape. XD | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On August 15 2012 07:04 phyvo wrote: It was my understanding that on the PBE that Kat's E was a one point wonder as it had a flat 14 second CD no matter the level. Is that untrue? I'm still thinking funfire cape. XD Currently on the PBE Shunpo's cooldown is reduced by 2s per level, down to a 6s at rank 5. With CDR you can potentially have 3.6s Shunpos and 2.4s Ws. The information posted to the websites that track the PBE was flawed to begin with, and they rarely update things as the PBE progresses. For whatever reason they missed Shunpo's decreasing cooldown despite the fact that it's been there since the PBE got Rengar/the Kat rework. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
the fucking 14 second bullshit they had it on previously was insane and kat could not function at all with it | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On August 15 2012 06:40 cLutZ wrote: I don't remember the tournament or game in particular, but someone I remember did a lane swap with Graves vs. Janna and just froze the lane and zoned Janna incredibly hard, which is where I got the idea. I feel like Vayne, Sivir, or Ashe could have zoned just as hard there (Ashe might be even more dangerous seeing as 1 AA or Multishot could get you a kill). that was curse vs tsm, two things happened, first janna didn't wait for the 2v1 to shove her in, which you have to do, used q lvl1 and effectively zoned herself. Meanwhile in bot Copp and Elementz failed to out cs Dyrus even tho he was 1v2, and Copp had Urgot who really isn't a threat to early tower pressure even 2v1. tl;dr outplayed | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On August 15 2012 06:05 Leonite7 wrote: So, ignore list, best feature in the game or best feature ever? Was a better feature when /ignore still worked in game and also when /ignore or mute ally and enemy worked. Being forced to use the mute button is some bullshit. | ||
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qanik
Denmark1899 Posts
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Ferrose
United States11378 Posts
On August 15 2012 07:58 qanik wrote: Anyone knows if there will be a "MLG Prizefights: TSM vs Legion" today? Otherwise I'd go to bed early today. It's starting in a few minutes: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/prizefights | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
On August 15 2012 07:58 qanik wrote: Anyone knows if there will be a "MLG Prizefights: TSM vs Legion" today? Otherwise I'd go to bed early today. http://www.own3d.tv/MLG here you go. | ||
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