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[Patch 1.0.0.144: Diana] General Discussion - Page 172
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On August 14 2012 12:56 askTeivospy wrote: lol i thought zyra on release was ridiculous, but diana is even more so. PS I'll make the statement that if you play diana and you don't think shes OP, you're just biased and don't want to admit it for pride reasons Disclaimer: I don't play diana, I don't own her. Zyra on release couldn't lose. Diana can. She's on the very strong side, approaching OP but not in the same way Zyra was. Toning down the AP scaling on her passive/Q and knocking a slight bit of base damage off the higher tiers of her passive would probably be sufficient to bring her in line. (knock .1 off her passive, .1 off her Q and 40 damage off the level 18 passive base damage, scaling everything else accordingly). Right now, the primary problem is that if diana charges her passive on creeps, WQRER+autos any mid and gets two passive procs, she has 3.8AP scaling, more than pretty any other mid out there and pretty stupidly high base damage scaling on her passive at 6. If she gets ahead, it's literally impossible to shut her down since she starts being able to 100-0 the enemy mid without ignite and because of her shield, gains tankiness through AP, especially since the shield's guaranteed to proc twice if she gets within melee range. Once she's ahead, she can easily 100-0 one of the two people ganking her which is rather scary. She scales (aka snowballs) too quickly off of AP, nerf the scaling and she'll fall in line quickly enough. | ||
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VashTS
United States1675 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On August 14 2012 14:19 VashTS wrote: How did you go down 200 ELO in 2 days? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pTjRE.png) Mine. It happens. You just have a string of trolls and you either respond by going on tilt or respond by trolling right back. Either way, you'll lose ELO. It's generally not a problem to earn it back though. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 14 2012 14:12 Lmui wrote: Disclaimer: I don't play diana, I don't own her. Zyra on release couldn't lose. Diana can. She's on the very strong side, approaching OP but not in the same way Zyra was. Toning down the AP scaling on her passive/Q and knocking a slight bit of base damage off the higher tiers of her passive would probably be sufficient to bring her in line. (knock .1 off her passive, .1 off her Q and 40 damage off the level 18 passive base damage, scaling everything else accordingly). Right now, the primary problem is that if diana charges her passive on creeps, WQRER+autos any mid and gets two passive procs, she has 3.8AP scaling, more than pretty any other mid out there and pretty stupidly high base damage scaling on her passive at 6. If she gets ahead, it's literally impossible to shut her down since she starts being able to 100-0 the enemy mid without ignite and because of her shield, gains tankiness through AP, especially since the shield's guaranteed to proc twice if she gets within melee range. Once she's ahead, she can easily 100-0 one of the two people ganking her which is rather scary. She scales (aka snowballs) too quickly off of AP, nerf the scaling and she'll fall in line quickly enough. 2 passive procs is like 4 seconds of autos - enough time for most APs to hit a second spell in their rotation too, especially because though Diana has a great repositioning, she doesn't have much lockdown. She feels kitable by many mids with CC in a way that Akali is not due to Akali often fighting you within her stealth bubble. Dealing with Diana is like Dealing with Akali, and I haven't seen any matchup where Diana lanes significantly better than Akali. She brings utility to a team that Akali doesn't, but doesn't have the escape potential of Akali. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
 ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i9lIj.jpg) | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
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BlackPaladin
United States9316 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On August 14 2012 15:07 WaveofShadow wrote: I feel like this needs to have its own thread before GD gets shitted up real quick. Yes please. I almost want to say "take to the Loci" thread. Posting your elo graph, as cool as it is, bring no content to GD. Someone can start an elo graph thread if they so desire, npnp. | ||
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EquilasH
Denmark2142 Posts
On August 14 2012 15:15 NeoIllusions wrote: Yes please. I almost want to say "take to the Loci" thread. Posting your elo graph, as cool as it is, bring no content to GD. Someone can start an elo graph thread if they so desire, npnp. I was gonna ask if I could start a GD with no Elo graphs in it, but yeah your idea probably works better  | ||
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35172 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On August 14 2012 17:06 Gahlo wrote: I love picking jungle diana against double AP comps. What's that you say? I can build tanky and damage at the same time and have super safe ganks? Yes please! Mao is so much better since most double AP=mass aoe, guess what moa ult does. Yeah, that's right. | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
On August 14 2012 14:50 sylverfyre wrote: 2 passive procs is like 4 seconds of autos - enough time for most APs to hit a second spell in their rotation too, especially because though Diana has a great repositioning, she doesn't have much lockdown. She feels kitable by many mids with CC in a way that Akali is not due to Akali often fighting you within her stealth bubble. Dealing with Diana is like Dealing with Akali, and I haven't seen any matchup where Diana lanes significantly better than Akali. She brings utility to a team that Akali doesn't, but doesn't have the escape potential of Akali. The problem is that most Diana's will WQR onto you and wait til you run to either E you or R you. If they bring a passive proc into the fight, there's almost no way you're getting away without eating a second passive proc without a dash/flash or a snare. It is around 4 seconds of autoattacks but diana with the combination of E/R, it's really easy for her to get that second proc. Most AP mids have cooldowns of 6+ seconds. It's long enough that most people can't afford to stand around eatiing diana's damage until it comes off cd. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 14 2012 13:04 HeroHenry wrote: The part about shaco is so true. When Shaco is on your team he goes 0/7, but when he is in the enemy team, he goes legendary before 20minutes. I've never encountered this magical Shaco can do these things people claim, like Deceive through wards (that he doesn't know where they are exactly) etc. If someone was that good, they wouldn't play Shaco. | ||
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clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
in dota the ppl who are/where really good in scrims/leagues/tournaments where completely stomping inhouse leagues (=soloq) and pubs(=normals) even with shitty champs and trollbuilds. what I want to say with this is: being extremely good at soloq is the absolute basic requirement for being a competitive or even just a good ranked5's player. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On August 14 2012 14:12 Lmui wrote: Disclaimer: I don't play diana, I don't own her. Zyra on release couldn't lose. Diana can. She's on the very strong side, approaching OP but not in the same way Zyra was. Toning down the AP scaling on her passive/Q and knocking a slight bit of base damage off the higher tiers of her passive would probably be sufficient to bring her in line. (knock .1 off her passive, .1 off her Q and 40 damage off the level 18 passive base damage, scaling everything else accordingly). Right now, the primary problem is that if diana charges her passive on creeps, WQRER+autos any mid and gets two passive procs, she has 3.8AP scaling, more than pretty any other mid out there and pretty stupidly high base damage scaling on her passive at 6. If she gets ahead, it's literally impossible to shut her down since she starts being able to 100-0 the enemy mid without ignite and because of her shield, gains tankiness through AP, especially since the shield's guaranteed to proc twice if she gets within melee range. Once she's ahead, she can easily 100-0 one of the two people ganking her which is rather scary. She scales (aka snowballs) too quickly off of AP, nerf the scaling and she'll fall in line quickly enough. It doesn't matter what her AP ratios are. The fact that she needs to be in melee range to do most of her damage, plus having no escape, means that she will never truly be OP. I think Diana is not OP - she falls off quickly in late game comparing to most ranged APs. The question is whether or not it is good to have a champion with this kind of power curve. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
Her E is really strong though. Squishy Diana probably really strong if someone else on her team can initiate, then come and clean up while rest of the team is distracted. Like any other assassin. Just not sure if you'd want to have your jungler to fill the assassin role. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On August 14 2012 18:07 overt wrote: I haven't fought any of these Dianas who make her seem OP. Maybe I'm just facing shitty Diana players or something. I've mostly been playing as Twisted Fate and Anivia lately though but if I see Diana she usually tries to dive me or someone on my team proceeds to get stunned and then gets destroyed by my team. Her R is just really predictable because of the interaction of Q/R and it only takes one stun to effectively fuck her (unless she's so tanky that she builds no damage, in which case my team just ignores her). Her E is really strong though. And this. My experience with Diana mid is that she has a lot of weak matchups. While I found that she can slap Katarina and LeBlanc around, she has difficulties against ranged pokes and CC. Laning against Ahri and Brand were particularly difficult. You could jungle her. But her ganks are really poor and the jungle income really does not do justice for her AP ratios. So yea, while I admit that she currently stands at around 53% winrate, a lot of champions currently do stand in that area. Given how her kit works, I am not convinced at all that she is OP. She is most likely fine as it is. | ||
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