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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On August 14 2012 06:41 HazMat wrote: ITT: People sad about their Elo so they act like arranged 5s is some super serious game mode and solo queue is a joke. that's like saying taking the top 5 elo solo q players would give an even match vs any proteam lol. | ||
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AwayFromLife
United States441 Posts
On August 14 2012 06:46 Feartheguru wrote: As obnoxious as this sounds... well it's hard to disagree. There isn't that much difference between solo queue and arranged 5s once you reach the elo where there is no longer "the one", just a little less coordination. It doesn't sound obnoxious, it sounds like the truth. Many people who laugh at solo queue are just frustrated at it because of a shitty game or two. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On August 14 2012 06:41 HazMat wrote: ITT: People sad about their Elo so they act like arranged 5s is some super serious game mode and solo queue is a joke. I'm not sad about my glorious 1700 elo at all, tho instead of arranged 5s I should probs say top teams. Comparing any of the top teams that actually play like a team and roam, that isn't so easy to pull off in soloqueue. If you pull off the shit that M5 or azubu pulls off in tourneys, have a win streak like tsm or have a comeback like WE or clg.eu has in multiple soloq games then yeah, I'll agree with you. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 14 2012 06:49 AwayFromLife wrote: It doesn't sound obnoxious, it sounds like the truth. Many people who laugh at solo queue are just frustrated at it because of a shitty game or two. "Arranged play and solo pub play are two different games" isn't some idea created by pub players to make themselves feel good about themselves--it's been the prevailing opinion about pub play vs. professional play in Chinese professional DotA for years now. Unless you want to somehow argue that League and DotA are drastically different with regard to the team play vs. solo play dynamic (I don't think they are), I think this opinion is at least somewhat valid. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On August 14 2012 06:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: that's like saying taking the top 5 elo solo q players would give an even match vs any proteam lol. That's not at all what I was saying but they would. Have you not heard of teams like Team Meat. They're literally a team of high Elo players that are just like hey let's make a team. Top 5 wouldn't happen though because all those players are already on a team because solo q skill = game skill. Every player on a top team is High Elo except for a couple of supports. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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Vaporized
United States1471 Posts
On August 14 2012 06:57 HazMat wrote: That's not at all what I was saying but they would. Have you not heard of teams like Team Meat. They're literally a team of high Elo players that are just like hey let's make a team. Top 5 wouldn't happen though because all those players are already on a team because solo q skill = game skill. Every player on a top team is High Elo except for a couple of supports. im not surprised to see you say this after watching your stream for the first (and last) time, last night. it was irritating just watching you. you spam taunts and talk shit in /all while you are winning, and then stop when you are losing. and you got absolutely carried in the two games i saw. you were making excuses for your bad plays. you also seem completely oblivious that jrt and nk inc were going wtf?? the whole game u were support taric. | ||
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On August 14 2012 06:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: that's like saying taking the top 5 elo solo q players would give an even match vs any proteam lol. Actually teams of random top players do just form and start doing fine right away in pro tournaments like Legion. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On August 14 2012 07:06 Feartheguru wrote: Actually teams of random top players do just form and start doing fine right away in pro tournaments like Legion. Every top team is a team of random solo queue players, at least on NA. I'm not sure how the Korean and Chinese teams were formed but mots of the top Korean players (Lilac, Loco, Maknoon etc) were all high Elo on NA. There's also the fact that players that are more known get picked up. Wingsofdeathx was nobody until one day his stream got a shit ton of viewers and then very soon after he was picked up by EG. Same with Cruzer. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On August 14 2012 07:05 Vaporized wrote: im not surprised to see you say this after watching your stream for the first (and last) time, last night. it was irritating just watching you. you spam taunts and talk shit in /all while you are winning, and then stop when you are losing. and you got absolutely carried in the two games i saw. you were making excuses for your bad plays. you also seem completely oblivious that jrt and nk inc were going wtf?? the whole game u were support taric. what Can you re-word that so I can try to figure out what you're mad at me for. Is it because I shift + 4 a lot? And what does that have to do with what you quoted. Is this about frozen mallet sejuani? | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On August 14 2012 06:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: that's like saying taking the top 5 elo solo q players would give an even match vs any proteam lol. Take the top elo mid, support, ad, jungle, and top players and I'm sure they'll do fine against a lot of proteams. I'm not sure how pub play worked in dota but was it based on elo system? In any case the longer the game evolves the more likely it is skill level increases and teamcomp becomes more important I suppose. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
I think this is true across all ELO's. http://na.leagueoflegends.com/learn/gameplay/matchmaking Albeit the matchmaking system seems to make really unbalanced decisions in 5v5s. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On August 14 2012 07:06 Feartheguru wrote: Actually teams of random top players do just form and start doing fine right away in pro tournaments like Legion. And if you paid close attention to the games, you could see that Lgn still played like a soloqueue team in some games. | ||
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nojitosunrise
United States6188 Posts
I'm worried about regionals because it's going to be 100% cheese. for some reason riot thinks the seeding matters and has made it single elimination. any team can win regionals and failure is my greatest fear, so we're going to get so good that cheese won't work on us and we'll crush the opposition. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 14 2012 07:13 Slayer91 wrote: I'm not sure how pub play worked in dota but was it based on elo system? In any case the longer the game evolves the more likely it is skill level increases and teamcomp becomes more important I suppose. In China it basically is. Pub play occurs on private ladders (somewhat like ICCup for BW) that have ratings and ladder rankings. The way rating functions varies on different ladders, but the idea is the same. | ||
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Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21244 Posts
On August 14 2012 07:13 Slayer91 wrote: Take the top elo mid, support, ad, jungle, and top players and I'm sure they'll do fine against a lot of proteams. I'm not sure how pub play worked in dota but was it based on elo system? In any case the longer the game evolves the more likely it is skill level increases and teamcomp becomes more important I suppose. pub dota is considered a joke, and something pro dota players only do for fun, nowhere near the prestige and caliber of arranged played. i don't see why the same wouldn't hold true for league. i'm not saying solo q elo is meaningless, if you're high elo chances are you're better than low elo at this game, significantly. but that's still meaningless at the very highest level of play. edit: yeah that yango said  | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 14 2012 07:03 HazMat wrote: Teams don't do arranged 5s because the teams that they can actually learn from playing against they can just scrim without waiting in a 40 minute queue. But to actually be in a position to scrim these teams you have to known the players which means you have to be High Elo. I don't think anyone's arguing that there's some magically hidden player who's talented in a 5-player setting, but can't climb the solo queue ladder. Obviously you still need the fundamentals, regardless of whether you're playing pubs or arranged play, and anyone with good enough fundamentals to to compete on a professional team with any reasonable success should be able to get to high Elo. It's really the other side of the coin where it's relevant--that there are a lot of high Elo solo queue players that have good fundamentals but have attitudes or mindsets that are ultimately incompatible with competitive team play. And some of these people (I won't say who they are, but I'm fairly certain everyone can at least think of one such person on a competitive team) are still on teams anyway, and the issues that arise due to their attitudes have been obviously relevant to the success or lack thereof of those teams. | ||
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Dusty
United States3359 Posts
On August 14 2012 07:06 Feartheguru wrote: Actually teams of random top players do just form and start doing fine right away in pro tournaments like Legion. But Legion has been around for some time now, I thought | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On August 14 2012 07:27 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: pub dota is considered a joke, and something pro dota players only do for fun, nowhere near the prestige and caliber of arranged played. i don't see why the same wouldn't hold true for league. i'm not saying solo q elo is meaningless, if you're high elo chances are you're better than low elo at this game, significantly. but that's still meaningless at the very highest level of play. edit: yeah that yango said The consistently best performing players in competitive 5's right now tend to be the ones performing the best in solo queue and the people who don't do well in solo queue aren't. To me there's an obvious direct correlation and for people who haven't been in the highest elo solo queue I don't see why you should think to say it's meaningless. | ||
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