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On August 14 2012 04:13 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:07 xes wrote:
I made the comparison to Udyr because you seem to be under the impression that Diana without lane farm is a worse version of Amumu/Malphite. She is. Underfarmed/unfed Diana has 1 task: ult in, hit E to line up AoE, and try to do damage to the carry. Malph does the first 2 parts in his ult and has better sticking power + a debuff. Amumu does the same thing as Diana (though QR instead of RE), and then takes less damage from the AD carry and is fine building pure tank. Udyr is more or less trash outside of farming/mid game fights compared to all of them.
i dont really understand your obsession with 'competitive play', unless you are on a pro team and i didnt realize it.
diana is a tanky-ap jungler/assassin. which is a fairly rare combination on a jungler. im going to guess that riot released her to entertain the junglers out there with something a bit different then cc bots like naut or sejuani. i find her quite entertaining and a nice change of pace.
if a pro team picks her up i will be interested to watch that. if she doesnt get competitive play, well, i dont see how that has any bearing on what any of us here do.
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On August 14 2012 04:33 Slusher wrote:
I'll tell you one thing, now that I have several AP Diana games under my belt, she is an absolute terror mid game, as I had said earlier, but now that I've seen her in 6 item vs 6 item I gotta say (using ap build) There is pretty much no AP I'd not rather be after 40 min, give me Annie over Diana, this includes games where I've crushed early and the game just went too long.
Most assassins tend to fall off late game for several reasons. Team fights (so less exploding single targets and more protection on carries), defenses start to come in to play, roaming less effective, etc.
On August 14 2012 04:34 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:13 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:07 xes wrote:
I made the comparison to Udyr because you seem to be under the impression that Diana without lane farm is a worse version of Amumu/Malphite. She is. Underfarmed/unfed Diana has 1 task: ult in, hit E to line up AoE, and try to do damage to the carry. Malph does the first 2 parts in his ult and has better sticking power + a debuff. Amumu does the same thing as Diana (though QR instead of RE), and then takes less damage from the AD carry and is fine building pure tank. Udyr is more or less trash outside of farming/mid game fights compared to all of them. i dont really understand your obsession with 'competitive play', unless you are on a pro team and i didnt realize it. diana is a tanky-ap jungler/assassin. which is a fairly rare combination on a jungler. im going to guess that riot released her to entertain the junglers out there with something a bit different then cc bots like naut or sejuani. i find her quite entertaining and a nice change of pace. if a pro team picks her up i will be interested to watch that. if she doesnt get competitive play, well, i dont see how that has any bearing on what any of us here do.
Competitive play also includes high level play, High Gold to Plat level, where picks, bans, and champion kits start to matter more than one person or team getting fed. I tend not to decide things around how games play around the 1300 levels.
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On August 14 2012 04:35 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:33 Slusher wrote:
I'll tell you one thing, now that I have several AP Diana games under my belt, she is an absolute terror mid game, as I had said earlier, but now that I've seen her in 6 item vs 6 item I gotta say (using ap build) There is pretty much no AP I'd not rather be after 40 min, give me Annie over Diana, this includes games where I've crushed early and the game just went too long. Most assassins tend to fall off late game for several reasons. Team fights (so less exploding single targets and more protection on carries), defenses start to come in to play, roaming less effective, etc. Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:34 Vaporized wrote:On August 14 2012 04:13 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:07 xes wrote:
I made the comparison to Udyr because you seem to be under the impression that Diana without lane farm is a worse version of Amumu/Malphite. She is. Underfarmed/unfed Diana has 1 task: ult in, hit E to line up AoE, and try to do damage to the carry. Malph does the first 2 parts in his ult and has better sticking power + a debuff. Amumu does the same thing as Diana (though QR instead of RE), and then takes less damage from the AD carry and is fine building pure tank. Udyr is more or less trash outside of farming/mid game fights compared to all of them. i dont really understand your obsession with 'competitive play', unless you are on a pro team and i didnt realize it. diana is a tanky-ap jungler/assassin. which is a fairly rare combination on a jungler. im going to guess that riot released her to entertain the junglers out there with something a bit different then cc bots like naut or sejuani. i find her quite entertaining and a nice change of pace. if a pro team picks her up i will be interested to watch that. if she doesnt get competitive play, well, i dont see how that has any bearing on what any of us here do. Competitive play also includes high level play, High Gold to Plat level, where picks, bans, and champion kits start to matter more than one person or team getting fed. I tend not to decide things around how games play around the 1300 levels.
that doesn't really matter til plat, even if someone gets a fotm champ they probably aren't good enough to carry the game hard unless they are a 2k smurf
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On August 14 2012 04:38 Frolossus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:35 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:33 Slusher wrote:
I'll tell you one thing, now that I have several AP Diana games under my belt, she is an absolute terror mid game, as I had said earlier, but now that I've seen her in 6 item vs 6 item I gotta say (using ap build) There is pretty much no AP I'd not rather be after 40 min, give me Annie over Diana, this includes games where I've crushed early and the game just went too long. Most assassins tend to fall off late game for several reasons. Team fights (so less exploding single targets and more protection on carries), defenses start to come in to play, roaming less effective, etc. On August 14 2012 04:34 Vaporized wrote:On August 14 2012 04:13 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:07 xes wrote:
I made the comparison to Udyr because you seem to be under the impression that Diana without lane farm is a worse version of Amumu/Malphite. She is. Underfarmed/unfed Diana has 1 task: ult in, hit E to line up AoE, and try to do damage to the carry. Malph does the first 2 parts in his ult and has better sticking power + a debuff. Amumu does the same thing as Diana (though QR instead of RE), and then takes less damage from the AD carry and is fine building pure tank. Udyr is more or less trash outside of farming/mid game fights compared to all of them. i dont really understand your obsession with 'competitive play', unless you are on a pro team and i didnt realize it. diana is a tanky-ap jungler/assassin. which is a fairly rare combination on a jungler. im going to guess that riot released her to entertain the junglers out there with something a bit different then cc bots like naut or sejuani. i find her quite entertaining and a nice change of pace. if a pro team picks her up i will be interested to watch that. if she doesnt get competitive play, well, i dont see how that has any bearing on what any of us here do. Competitive play also includes high level play, High Gold to Plat level, where picks, bans, and champion kits start to matter more than one person or team getting fed. I tend not to decide things around how games play around the 1300 levels. that doesn't really matter til plat, even if someone gets a fotm champ they probably aren't good enough to carry the game hard unless they are a 2k smurf
I'm not talking about OP vs UP champs (which don't matter at low levels, because at 1300 or lower you can carry with just about anyone), but rather effectiveness of champions as they relate to the team, which do matter as your teammates and opponents start getting better. So no, I probably won't continue using Diana in the jungle when I can pick several other champs and have the same effectiveness or better.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 14 2012 04:13 AwayFromLife wrote:
She is. Underfarmed/unfed Diana has 1 task: ult in, hit E to line up AoE, and try to do damage to the carry. Malph does the first 2 parts in his ult and has better sticking power + a debuff. Amumu does the same thing as Diana (though QR instead of RE), and then takes less damage from the AD carry and is fine building pure tank. Udyr is more or less trash outside of farming/mid game fights compared to all of them.
How does Diana take more damage from the AD carry when she has a shield (which is more significant than Amumu's E passive lategame) and higher base HP/armor growth? How is Diana not fine building pure tank when Amumu is when Monte did the math a few days ago showing that at most reasonable points, Diana has higher baseline damage output than Amumu?
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On August 14 2012 04:35 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:33 Slusher wrote:
I'll tell you one thing, now that I have several AP Diana games under my belt, she is an absolute terror mid game, as I had said earlier, but now that I've seen her in 6 item vs 6 item I gotta say (using ap build) There is pretty much no AP I'd not rather be after 40 min, give me Annie over Diana, this includes games where I've crushed early and the game just went too long. Most assassins tend to fall off late game for several reasons. Team fights (so less exploding single targets and more protection on carries), defenses start to come in to play, roaming less effective, etc. Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:34 Vaporized wrote:On August 14 2012 04:13 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:07 xes wrote:
I made the comparison to Udyr because you seem to be under the impression that Diana without lane farm is a worse version of Amumu/Malphite. She is. Underfarmed/unfed Diana has 1 task: ult in, hit E to line up AoE, and try to do damage to the carry. Malph does the first 2 parts in his ult and has better sticking power + a debuff. Amumu does the same thing as Diana (though QR instead of RE), and then takes less damage from the AD carry and is fine building pure tank. Udyr is more or less trash outside of farming/mid game fights compared to all of them. i dont really understand your obsession with 'competitive play', unless you are on a pro team and i didnt realize it. diana is a tanky-ap jungler/assassin. which is a fairly rare combination on a jungler. im going to guess that riot released her to entertain the junglers out there with something a bit different then cc bots like naut or sejuani. i find her quite entertaining and a nice change of pace. if a pro team picks her up i will be interested to watch that. if she doesnt get competitive play, well, i dont see how that has any bearing on what any of us here do. Competitive play also includes high level play, High Gold to Plat level, where picks, bans, and champion kits start to matter more than one person or team getting fed. I tend not to decide things around how games play around the 1300 levels.
Thaaaaat's a funny joke. Plat is only slightly less of a crapshoot than all other ranked regions. More often than not you'll still see someone derping enough so that they are too weak to be carried and the enemy is too strong to be stopped.
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On August 14 2012 04:35 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:33 Slusher wrote:
I'll tell you one thing, now that I have several AP Diana games under my belt, she is an absolute terror mid game, as I had said earlier, but now that I've seen her in 6 item vs 6 item I gotta say (using ap build) There is pretty much no AP I'd not rather be after 40 min, give me Annie over Diana, this includes games where I've crushed early and the game just went too long. Most assassins tend to fall off late game for several reasons. Team fights (so less exploding single targets and more protection on carries), defenses start to come in to play, roaming less effective, etc. Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:34 Vaporized wrote:On August 14 2012 04:13 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:07 xes wrote:
I made the comparison to Udyr because you seem to be under the impression that Diana without lane farm is a worse version of Amumu/Malphite. She is. Underfarmed/unfed Diana has 1 task: ult in, hit E to line up AoE, and try to do damage to the carry. Malph does the first 2 parts in his ult and has better sticking power + a debuff. Amumu does the same thing as Diana (though QR instead of RE), and then takes less damage from the AD carry and is fine building pure tank. Udyr is more or less trash outside of farming/mid game fights compared to all of them. i dont really understand your obsession with 'competitive play', unless you are on a pro team and i didnt realize it. diana is a tanky-ap jungler/assassin. which is a fairly rare combination on a jungler. im going to guess that riot released her to entertain the junglers out there with something a bit different then cc bots like naut or sejuani. i find her quite entertaining and a nice change of pace. if a pro team picks her up i will be interested to watch that. if she doesnt get competitive play, well, i dont see how that has any bearing on what any of us here do. Competitive play also includes high level play, High Gold to Plat level, where picks, bans, and champion kits start to matter more than one person or team getting fed. I tend not to decide things around how games play around the 1300 levels.
uh i disagree. competitive play is when there is money on the line, where the game actually means something.
i hate to break it to you, but solo que is absolutely meaningless.
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On August 14 2012 04:44 Vaporized wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:35 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:33 Slusher wrote:
I'll tell you one thing, now that I have several AP Diana games under my belt, she is an absolute terror mid game, as I had said earlier, but now that I've seen her in 6 item vs 6 item I gotta say (using ap build) There is pretty much no AP I'd not rather be after 40 min, give me Annie over Diana, this includes games where I've crushed early and the game just went too long. Most assassins tend to fall off late game for several reasons. Team fights (so less exploding single targets and more protection on carries), defenses start to come in to play, roaming less effective, etc. On August 14 2012 04:34 Vaporized wrote:On August 14 2012 04:13 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:07 xes wrote:
I made the comparison to Udyr because you seem to be under the impression that Diana without lane farm is a worse version of Amumu/Malphite. She is. Underfarmed/unfed Diana has 1 task: ult in, hit E to line up AoE, and try to do damage to the carry. Malph does the first 2 parts in his ult and has better sticking power + a debuff. Amumu does the same thing as Diana (though QR instead of RE), and then takes less damage from the AD carry and is fine building pure tank. Udyr is more or less trash outside of farming/mid game fights compared to all of them. i dont really understand your obsession with 'competitive play', unless you are on a pro team and i didnt realize it. diana is a tanky-ap jungler/assassin. which is a fairly rare combination on a jungler. im going to guess that riot released her to entertain the junglers out there with something a bit different then cc bots like naut or sejuani. i find her quite entertaining and a nice change of pace. if a pro team picks her up i will be interested to watch that. if she doesnt get competitive play, well, i dont see how that has any bearing on what any of us here do. Competitive play also includes high level play, High Gold to Plat level, where picks, bans, and champion kits start to matter more than one person or team getting fed. I tend not to decide things around how games play around the 1300 levels. uh i disagree. competitive play is when there is money on the line, where the game actually means something. i hate to break it to you, but solo que is absolutely meaningless.
Yeah, some people actually have a competitive spirit and like to win, instead of play like shit and then say "lol it's just solo queue". Take that bullshit attitude somewhere else.
Edit: Oh right, just saw who posted it. Continue trying to convince us about FMallet Sej and TF/PD/PD Hec, I really appreciate your opinions.
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diana should be built almost exactly like amumu, sunfire + abyssal core
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On August 14 2012 04:46 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:44 Vaporized wrote:On August 14 2012 04:35 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:33 Slusher wrote:
I'll tell you one thing, now that I have several AP Diana games under my belt, she is an absolute terror mid game, as I had said earlier, but now that I've seen her in 6 item vs 6 item I gotta say (using ap build) There is pretty much no AP I'd not rather be after 40 min, give me Annie over Diana, this includes games where I've crushed early and the game just went too long. Most assassins tend to fall off late game for several reasons. Team fights (so less exploding single targets and more protection on carries), defenses start to come in to play, roaming less effective, etc. On August 14 2012 04:34 Vaporized wrote:On August 14 2012 04:13 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:07 xes wrote:
I made the comparison to Udyr because you seem to be under the impression that Diana without lane farm is a worse version of Amumu/Malphite. She is. Underfarmed/unfed Diana has 1 task: ult in, hit E to line up AoE, and try to do damage to the carry. Malph does the first 2 parts in his ult and has better sticking power + a debuff. Amumu does the same thing as Diana (though QR instead of RE), and then takes less damage from the AD carry and is fine building pure tank. Udyr is more or less trash outside of farming/mid game fights compared to all of them. i dont really understand your obsession with 'competitive play', unless you are on a pro team and i didnt realize it. diana is a tanky-ap jungler/assassin. which is a fairly rare combination on a jungler. im going to guess that riot released her to entertain the junglers out there with something a bit different then cc bots like naut or sejuani. i find her quite entertaining and a nice change of pace. if a pro team picks her up i will be interested to watch that. if she doesnt get competitive play, well, i dont see how that has any bearing on what any of us here do. Competitive play also includes high level play, High Gold to Plat level, where picks, bans, and champion kits start to matter more than one person or team getting fed. I tend not to decide things around how games play around the 1300 levels. uh i disagree. competitive play is when there is money on the line, where the game actually means something. i hate to break it to you, but solo que is absolutely meaningless. Yeah, some people actually have a competitive spirit and like to win, instead of play like shit and then say "lol it's just solo queue". Take that bullshit attitude somewhere else. Edit: Oh right, just saw who posted it. Continue trying to convince us about FMallet Sej and TF/PD/PD Hec, I really appreciate your opinions.
With all due respect, I think what the others are trying to say is that solo queue is not the best example of actual competitive play. League of Legends is a team game and solo queue is plagued with communication issues. 5v5 in arranged teams with full voice communication is the best example of actual competitive play and current the only form this takes is professional play where money is on the line. As Soniv stated, even high Elo solo Queue can be a luck-shoot sometimes.
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On August 14 2012 04:46 AwayFromLife wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2012 04:44 Vaporized wrote:On August 14 2012 04:35 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:33 Slusher wrote:
I'll tell you one thing, now that I have several AP Diana games under my belt, she is an absolute terror mid game, as I had said earlier, but now that I've seen her in 6 item vs 6 item I gotta say (using ap build) There is pretty much no AP I'd not rather be after 40 min, give me Annie over Diana, this includes games where I've crushed early and the game just went too long. Most assassins tend to fall off late game for several reasons. Team fights (so less exploding single targets and more protection on carries), defenses start to come in to play, roaming less effective, etc. On August 14 2012 04:34 Vaporized wrote:On August 14 2012 04:13 AwayFromLife wrote:On August 14 2012 04:07 xes wrote:
I made the comparison to Udyr because you seem to be under the impression that Diana without lane farm is a worse version of Amumu/Malphite. She is. Underfarmed/unfed Diana has 1 task: ult in, hit E to line up AoE, and try to do damage to the carry. Malph does the first 2 parts in his ult and has better sticking power + a debuff. Amumu does the same thing as Diana (though QR instead of RE), and then takes less damage from the AD carry and is fine building pure tank. Udyr is more or less trash outside of farming/mid game fights compared to all of them. i dont really understand your obsession with 'competitive play', unless you are on a pro team and i didnt realize it. diana is a tanky-ap jungler/assassin. which is a fairly rare combination on a jungler. im going to guess that riot released her to entertain the junglers out there with something a bit different then cc bots like naut or sejuani. i find her quite entertaining and a nice change of pace. if a pro team picks her up i will be interested to watch that. if she doesnt get competitive play, well, i dont see how that has any bearing on what any of us here do. Competitive play also includes high level play, High Gold to Plat level, where picks, bans, and champion kits start to matter more than one person or team getting fed. I tend not to decide things around how games play around the 1300 levels. uh i disagree. competitive play is when there is money on the line, where the game actually means something. i hate to break it to you, but solo que is absolutely meaningless. Yeah, some people actually have a competitive spirit and like to win, instead of play like shit and then say "lol it's just solo queue". Take that bullshit attitude somewhere else. Edit: Oh right, just saw who posted it. Continue trying to convince us about FMallet Sej and TF/PD/PD Hec, I really appreciate your opinions.
Wether you have a competitive spirit or not doesn't change the fact that soloqueue actually isn't competitive like tourney games are. A lot of champs that work in soloqueue simply don't work in arranged 5s and vice versa.
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Are arranged 5s not in the game anymore? I was under the impression that it was.
And you can play to win in solo queue. When I go play basketball, I don't try to punt the ball into the hoop yelling "lolol it's not the NBA you guiz!"
Just because you occasionally get trolls and idiots doesn't mean you have to treat every game like it's full of tards. You can tell whether or not a game is going to be shit in champ select and know whether you should actually be attempting to win or not.
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I always attempt to win, doesn't change the fact that I like to play champs I enjoy instead of only playing top tier champions, it doesn't change the fact others do that aswell, it doesn't change the fact people rage and troll nor does it change the fact people pick "OP" champs and completely fail with it making a 1sided game because they've never played them.
Real competitive.
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On August 14 2012 04:53 AwayFromLife wrote:
Are arranged 5s not in the game anymore? I was under the impression that it was.
And you can play to win in solo queue. When I go play basketball, I don't try to punt the ball into the hoop yelling "lolol it's not the NBA you guiz!"
Just because you occasionally get trolls and idiots doesn't mean you have to treat every game like it's full of tards. You can tell whether or not a game is going to be shit in champ select and know whether you should actually be attempting to win or not.
Arranged 5s exist, but they haven't been taken very seriously by the community.
It's not about treating the game as though it's full of idiots, it's about the fact that high level team play involves a lot of practice as a team, getting to know each others' styles and idiosyncrasies, learning to communicate and understand each other, developing compositions that play to your strengths, researching opponents etc. All of that is absent from solo queue.
Solo queue is simply a very different environment than tournament play.
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I think the difference between arranged play and solo queue is massively overblown. The skill level is higher and the tilt factor usually isn't there in arranged but you often see people feed heavily and other people carry and champs that are good early game dominate and snowball and such like. People carry very often with champs they're good at and it's just that those champs start to become mainstream. (think double lift ezrael) But in solo queue you'd put it down to "solo queue retards".
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On August 14 2012 05:04 Slayer91 wrote:
I think the difference between arranged play and solo queue is massively overblown. The skill level is higher and the tilt factor usually isn't there in arranged but you often see people feed heavily and other people carry and champs that are good early game dominate and snowball and such like. People carry very often with champs they're good at and it's just that those champs start to become mainstream. (think double lift ezrael) But in solo queue you'd put it down to "solo queue retards".
Thank you for putting that in better words than I was able to. I've seen plenty of tournaments with scores like 11-2 early in the game, and I've played solo queue games where my team pinged, called timers, and warded perfectly, even better than some pro games. People are wrapped up in bad games that they've had and assume that it's always because solo queue is shit, which isn't nearly the case. People have good and bad games, everyone from your normal scrub to Froggen.
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I think arranged 5s is not popular due to massive smurfing problem and long Q time.
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Do people really agree that moonfall is a game changing teamfight skill like theyango says? Since the beginning I've thought it's just an average skill and none of the Dianas I've seen has changed that.
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On August 14 2012 05:07 Sufficiency wrote:
I think arranged 5s is not popular due to massive smurfing problem and long Q time.
Getting 2k elo teams every 3 games no matter what your team's skill level is gets real lame real fast.
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It's a nice skill, but nothing special. The range is way too small for that.
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EPT
