|
On July 24 2012 04:29 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 04:27 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Are IP boosts worth it?
I know maybe not for farming champions, but I'm really looking at buying like a 3 day IP Boost to farm runes this weekend just grinding games. I saw math somewhere (Reddit, maybe?) that they're really efficient if you're just grinding the fuck out of games nonstop for the money they cost. Dominion also makes them really good, since it's better IP/hour (don't quote me on that one again, can't find the post about it).
Using 975 champions as a guideline you need to play 10 sr games per day to get a return on the 2 week boost and it only gets less efficient from there
|
On July 24 2012 04:27 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Are IP boosts worth it?
I know maybe not for farming champions, but I'm really looking at buying like a 3 day IP Boost to farm runes this weekend just grinding games.
Afaik you can stack timed boosts with X wins boosts to get 4 times as much IP. That might be a lot more efficient since the second boost becomes twice as strong.
You should verify that somewhere else though, I can't guarantee it works.
|
On July 24 2012 05:21 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 04:27 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Are IP boosts worth it?
I know maybe not for farming champions, but I'm really looking at buying like a 3 day IP Boost to farm runes this weekend just grinding games. Afaik you can stack timed boosts with X wins boosts to get 4 times as much IP. That might be a lot more efficient since the second boost becomes twice as strong. You should verify that somewhere else though, I can't guarantee it works.
I'm pretty sure that they do stack, but not multiplicatively (like you'd basically gett triple IP each game, not 4 times as much).
|
United States47024 Posts
On July 24 2012 04:59 Requizen wrote:
Edit: Just so I don't seem like a Negative Nick, I'll throw my own hat into the ring. An item made out of Haunting Guise and Kage's that has:
1) MPen/AP aura
OR
2) Spellvamp aura
OR
3) Wards
This doesn't help the problem with support itemization, because based on components it would have to cost at least ~2500 gold. Supports have enough itemization options in that price range--arguably TOO MANY.
Supports need itemization in the 800-1400 gold range. Anything higher than that essentially falls into the same problem that all the 2k+ gold support items do--that you will rarely have the income to have 1 by the time teamfights start, and that you will very rarely be able to select more than 1-2 such items in a game at all.
This is arguably why gp10 became so popular on supports--because realistically, if an opposing support works toward real items, they won't actually finish said items before the gp10 has paid off anyway because they're all fairly expensive compared to a support's income.
|
On July 24 2012 05:27 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 04:59 Requizen wrote:
Edit: Just so I don't seem like a Negative Nick, I'll throw my own hat into the ring. An item made out of Haunting Guise and Kage's that has:
1) MPen/AP aura
OR
2) Spellvamp aura
OR
3) Wards This doesn't help the problem with support itemization, because based on components it would have to cost at least ~2500 gold. Supports have enough itemization options in that price range--arguably TOO MANY. Supports need itemization in the 800-1400 gold range. Anything higher than that essentially falls into the same problem that all the 2k+ gold support items do--that you will rarely have the income to have 1 by the time teamfights start, and that you will very rarely be able to select more than 1-2 such items in a game at all. This is arguably why gp10 became so popular on supports--because realistically, if an opposing support works toward real items, they won't actually finish said items before the gp10 has paid off anyway because they're all fairly expensive compared to a support's income.
Alright, while I'm on the train of thought (and ignoring work >.>), how about another in those lines:
Base of.... shit, I don't know. Hm, Meki Pendant and Rejuv Bead? I don't really like that combo, but those are two items you don't see a whole bunch outside of Tear or Warden's. 640 there, another ~300 on top to bring total cost to ~940. Health and Mana regen, of course, with an active.
Active: For the next ~3 seconds, all targets take (1.5x or 2x) as much healing from all sources (including Lifesteal and Spellvamp).
That seems stronger written down than it did in my head, but just spitballing because I'm distracted./
Edit: I really don't like that base, after thinking about it. We probably don't need any more passive sustain items. The idea for the active was more for "burst sustain", giving a heal, spell combo w/ vamp, or couple AD shots w/ lifesteal a huge boost for a moment.
|
Man, as far as support items go in the current state of the game, I'm pretty happy with them, but I just wish they were much cheaper/cost efficient.
One of the major weakness in item design in LoL is that there are no SUPER cost effective early-mid game items. The only ones that I can say are worth their weight in gold, just as a strong early-midgame item that is very cost effective is philo-stone/bilgewater cutlass/doran item stacking.
Just imagine a Haunting Guise that was 500gold cheaper, it would help develop very interesting meta-shifts in item builds, if Riot incorporated stronger midgame items. Have it so players have to choose between cost efficiency, and slot efficiency.
|
Id say Hexdrinker is pretty cost efficient
|
The lifesteal on Emblem of Valor should be an aura (maybe just part).
Give Miracle an active, say buff all allies near you with some (10-20) Tenacity for 3 seconds, about 60 seconds cooldown. Remove or reduce the base Tenacity on the item.
Increase the price on Mana Manip a bit and give it a ~90 second cooldown targeted mana (and energy?) heal (or increased regen for some duration) based on level. More interesting: cast costs you some HP.
Rework Soul Shroud, remove the Ruby Crystal and reduce the HP to make it cheaper, and possibly add an active, obviously an upgraded mana heal effect. Dunno, make it cone AoE for increased fun?
Certainly all these items would be OP without stat nerfs though :p
Anyways, there's tons of stuff you could do with existing, underwhelming items. No need to create new ones. Especially not ones that build from gold/10, duh. If you have 1000 build paths from gold/10, there's no reason to ever buy anything else. No tradeoffs, no decision making. Boring.
On July 24 2012 06:02 wei2coolman wrote:
Man, as far as support items go in the current state of the game, I'm pretty happy with them, but I just wish they were much cheaper/cost efficient.
One of the major weakness in item design in LoL is that there are no SUPER cost effective early-mid game items. The only ones that I can say are worth their weight in gold, just as a strong early-midgame item that is very cost effective is philo-stone/bilgewater cutlass/doran item stacking.
Just imagine a Haunting Guise that was 500gold cheaper, it would help develop very interesting meta-shifts in item builds, if Riot incorporated stronger midgame items. Have it so players have to choose between cost efficiency, and slot efficiency.
Haunting Guise IS very efficient for early/midgame against the right targets. Wit's End still is awesome (and when it still was stronger, it was TOO awesome). If you happen to want CDR+ASpd, Stinger is fricken amazing. Aegis is very efficient as long as you make use of it and force teamfights. Hell, even Sorc Shoes and Zerkers are huge.
|
On July 24 2012 06:04 spinesheath wrote:
The lifesteal on Emblem of Valor should be an aura (maybe just part).
Give Miracle an active, say buff all allies near you with some (10-20) Tenacity for 3 seconds, about 60 seconds cooldown. Remove or reduce the base Tenacity on the item.
Increase the price on Mana Manip a bit and give it a ~90 second cooldown targeted mana (and energy?) heal (or increased regen for some duration) based on level. More interesting: cast costs you some HP.
Rework Soul Shroud, remove the Ruby Crystal and reduce the HP to make it cheaper, and possibly add an active, obviously an upgraded mana heal effect. Dunno, make it cone AoE for increased fun?
Certainly all these items would be OP without stat nerfs though :p
Anyways, there's tons of stuff you could do with existing, underwhelming items. No need to create new ones. Especially not ones that build from gold/10, duh. If you have 1000 build paths from gold/10, there's no reason to ever buy anything else. No tradeoffs, no decision making. Boring.
I agree that Elesia needs a buff. Right now it's a no-brainer to build into a Shurelia's.
|
On July 24 2012 05:47 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 05:27 TheYango wrote:On July 24 2012 04:59 Requizen wrote:
Edit: Just so I don't seem like a Negative Nick, I'll throw my own hat into the ring. An item made out of Haunting Guise and Kage's that has:
1) MPen/AP aura
OR
2) Spellvamp aura
OR
3) Wards This doesn't help the problem with support itemization, because based on components it would have to cost at least ~2500 gold. Supports have enough itemization options in that price range--arguably TOO MANY. Supports need itemization in the 800-1400 gold range. Anything higher than that essentially falls into the same problem that all the 2k+ gold support items do--that you will rarely have the income to have 1 by the time teamfights start, and that you will very rarely be able to select more than 1-2 such items in a game at all. This is arguably why gp10 became so popular on supports--because realistically, if an opposing support works toward real items, they won't actually finish said items before the gp10 has paid off anyway because they're all fairly expensive compared to a support's income. Alright, while I'm on the train of thought (and ignoring work >.>), how about another in those lines: Base of.... shit, I don't know. Hm, Meki Pendant and Rejuv Bead? I don't really like that combo, but those are two items you don't see a whole bunch outside of Tear or Warden's. 640 there, another ~300 on top to bring total cost to ~940. Health and Mana regen, of course, with an active. Active: For the next ~3 seconds, all targets take (1.5x or 2x) as much healing from all sources (including Lifesteal and Spellvamp). That seems stronger written down than it did in my head, but just spitballing because I'm distracted./ Edit: I really don't like that base, after thinking about it. We probably don't need any more passive sustain items. The idea for the active was more for "burst sustain", giving a heal, spell combo w/ vamp, or couple AD shots w/ lifesteal a huge boost for a moment.
What I'm thinking for support items is something like moonflair spellblade, except get rid of the tenacity and put on something actually useful (item active or aura or some shit). They will never be used by anyone other than support because of the price range and lack of upgrade options. Just grab something like blasting wand, chain vest, negatron cloak (actually quicksilver is also a good example of the type of concept I want), also possibly introduce a new HP base item somewhere between ruby crystal and giant's belt and make that into something.
|
On July 24 2012 06:02 wei2coolman wrote:
Man, as far as support items go in the current state of the game, I'm pretty happy with them, but I just wish they were much cheaper/cost efficient.
One of the major weakness in item design in LoL is that there are no SUPER cost effective early-mid game items. The only ones that I can say are worth their weight in gold, just as a strong early-midgame item that is very cost effective is philo-stone/bilgewater cutlass/doran item stacking.
Just imagine a Haunting Guise that was 500gold cheaper, it would help develop very interesting meta-shifts in item builds, if Riot incorporated stronger midgame items. Have it so players have to choose between cost efficiency, and slot efficiency.
What price range are we considering midgame items? Cutlass is 1800, Philo is 800, DBlade stacking is ~1000 for 2,~1400 for 3, and a 500g cheaper Haunting Guise is 1000. That's a pretty big range, and Philo is really more of an early game that just never stops being good.
Phage, Hexdrinker, Glacial Shroud, Catalyst, and Hextech Revolver are all in that price range and pretty good items. I couldn't tell you about cost efficiency, but what more would you want?
|
You guys are far too obsessed about aura's and active auras on support. What about something that is extremely slot ineffecient but offers something a support would want, since slot efficiency isn't' important on supports. Like a 1500~ gold item, that polymorphs enemy champion for .5 seconds, or something like that, but offers weak stats, like 100 hp + 5% cdr +10mp5 or something like that.
items that ad carries/ ap carries/bruisers can't afford to get, due to slot issues, but are very strong.
|
On July 24 2012 06:09 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 06:02 wei2coolman wrote:
Man, as far as support items go in the current state of the game, I'm pretty happy with them, but I just wish they were much cheaper/cost efficient.
One of the major weakness in item design in LoL is that there are no SUPER cost effective early-mid game items. The only ones that I can say are worth their weight in gold, just as a strong early-midgame item that is very cost effective is philo-stone/bilgewater cutlass/doran item stacking.
Just imagine a Haunting Guise that was 500gold cheaper, it would help develop very interesting meta-shifts in item builds, if Riot incorporated stronger midgame items. Have it so players have to choose between cost efficiency, and slot efficiency. What price range are we considering midgame items? Cutlass is 1800, Philo is 800, DBlade stacking is ~1000 for 2,~1400 for 3, and a 500g cheaper Haunting Guise is 1000. That's a pretty big range, and Philo is really more of an early game that just never stops being good. Phage, Hexdrinker, Glacial Shroud, Catalyst, and Hextech Revolver are all in that price range and pretty good items. I couldn't tell you about cost efficiency, but what more would you want?
Something in like dota, where the items not necessarily build into a lategame item, but are beyond fucking cost efficient.
The reason I mention bilgewater cutlass as an amazingly cost efficient items, is that it's actually one of the very few items, that people get on their bruisers, despite never converting the item into it's lategame parts. Brutalizer is also another one of these items (though not to the same extent). For example, Cris builds bilgewater cutlass on his riven to great sucess, voyboy does it w/ lee sin, etc etc.
Wriggles does this as well, since it often gets replaced by BT in super lategame, but one of my main issue with wriggles, is that though cost efficient, doesn't offer a singular directional powercurve (damage or defensive), ergo powercurve of wriggles feels underwhelming most of the time, so though cost efficient due to stats, isn't a very good example of what I want out of a cost efficient item.
|
On July 24 2012 06:04 spinesheath wrote:
The lifesteal on Emblem of Valor should be an aura (maybe just part).
quick note, emblem no longer provides lifesteal. Components were changed to anal beads + cloth armor and gives a HP regen aura.
edit: which actually makes it a decent support item. The hp regen feels a tad underwhelming tho
|
On July 24 2012 06:10 wei2coolman wrote:
You guys are far too obsessed about aura's and active auras on support. What about something that is extremely slot ineffecient but offers something a support would want, since slot efficiency isn't' important on supports. Like a 1500~ gold item, that polymorphs enemy champion for .5 seconds, or something like that, but offers weak stats, like 100 hp + 5% cdr +10mp5 or something like that.
The only real issue with something like that is that it would be the only of it's kind. LoL doesn't really have any offensive use items. There's DFG damage, Randuin's AS/MS slow, Gunblade/Cutlass slow, Exe's/Morello's Grevious Wounds, and that's about it. DFG is pretty rare on all but a couple champs, Gunblade is pretty limited anymore, the last two are never bought, and Randuin's is, well, Randuin's.
It just wouldn't fit into the "theme", I guess. Unless we started seeing a more DotA-esque influx of crazy on-use items, I don't really think they'll put just one in.
|
On July 24 2012 06:11 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 06:09 Requizen wrote:On July 24 2012 06:02 wei2coolman wrote:
Man, as far as support items go in the current state of the game, I'm pretty happy with them, but I just wish they were much cheaper/cost efficient.
One of the major weakness in item design in LoL is that there are no SUPER cost effective early-mid game items. The only ones that I can say are worth their weight in gold, just as a strong early-midgame item that is very cost effective is philo-stone/bilgewater cutlass/doran item stacking.
Just imagine a Haunting Guise that was 500gold cheaper, it would help develop very interesting meta-shifts in item builds, if Riot incorporated stronger midgame items. Have it so players have to choose between cost efficiency, and slot efficiency. What price range are we considering midgame items? Cutlass is 1800, Philo is 800, DBlade stacking is ~1000 for 2,~1400 for 3, and a 500g cheaper Haunting Guise is 1000. That's a pretty big range, and Philo is really more of an early game that just never stops being good. Phage, Hexdrinker, Glacial Shroud, Catalyst, and Hextech Revolver are all in that price range and pretty good items. I couldn't tell you about cost efficiency, but what more would you want? Something in like dota, where the items not necessarily build into a lategame item, but are beyond fucking cost efficient.
I was always under the impression that those were supposed to be the Doran's items, but they kind of ended up being something different.
|
On July 24 2012 06:13 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 06:04 spinesheath wrote:
The lifesteal on Emblem of Valor should be an aura (maybe just part).
quick note, emblem no longer provides lifesteal. Components were changed to anal beads + cloth armor and gives a HP regen aura. edit: which actually makes it a decent support item. The hp regen feels a tad underwhelming tho
anal beads......? l0l
But yeah, I'd like to see old items like haunting guise revamped. Adding more midgame-centric items that are really cost efficient but not slot efficient isn't bad to me. But Riot seems to keep on just making them build into something instead of actually make them better for a certain time frame.
|
On July 24 2012 06:16 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 06:10 wei2coolman wrote:
You guys are far too obsessed about aura's and active auras on support. What about something that is extremely slot ineffecient but offers something a support would want, since slot efficiency isn't' important on supports. Like a 1500~ gold item, that polymorphs enemy champion for .5 seconds, or something like that, but offers weak stats, like 100 hp + 5% cdr +10mp5 or something like that. The only real issue with something like that is that it would be the only of it's kind. LoL doesn't really have any offensive use items. There's DFG damage, Randuin's AS/MS slow, Gunblade/Cutlass slow, Exe's/Morello's Grevious Wounds, and that's about it. DFG is pretty rare on all but a couple champs, Gunblade is pretty limited anymore, the last two are never bought, and Randuin's is, well, Randuin's. It just wouldn't fit into the "theme", I guess. Unless we started seeing a more DotA-esque influx of crazy on-use items, I don't really think they'll put just one in.
Or how about something like a very cheap version of rylais, for supports? Or perhaps an anti-rylais, where any spells used on teammates increase some base stats on them, for example any spell used on allies gives allies +5% ms +10mr/armor +5 AD/AP.
there are a ton of unique options that are yet to be explored.
|
On July 24 2012 06:19 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 06:13 barbsq wrote:On July 24 2012 06:04 spinesheath wrote:
The lifesteal on Emblem of Valor should be an aura (maybe just part).
quick note, emblem no longer provides lifesteal. Components were changed to anal beads + cloth armor and gives a HP regen aura. edit: which actually makes it a decent support item. The hp regen feels a tad underwhelming tho anal beads......? l0l But yeah, I'd like to see old items like haunting guise revamped. Adding more midgame-centric items that are really cost efficient but not slot efficient isn't bad to me. But Riot seems to keep on just making them build into something instead of actually make them better for a certain time frame.
to be fair, riot were getting yelled at for quite some time for having too many items that didn't upgrade.
|
On July 24 2012 06:22 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2012 06:16 Requizen wrote:On July 24 2012 06:10 wei2coolman wrote:
You guys are far too obsessed about aura's and active auras on support. What about something that is extremely slot ineffecient but offers something a support would want, since slot efficiency isn't' important on supports. Like a 1500~ gold item, that polymorphs enemy champion for .5 seconds, or something like that, but offers weak stats, like 100 hp + 5% cdr +10mp5 or something like that. The only real issue with something like that is that it would be the only of it's kind. LoL doesn't really have any offensive use items. There's DFG damage, Randuin's AS/MS slow, Gunblade/Cutlass slow, Exe's/Morello's Grevious Wounds, and that's about it. DFG is pretty rare on all but a couple champs, Gunblade is pretty limited anymore, the last two are never bought, and Randuin's is, well, Randuin's. It just wouldn't fit into the "theme", I guess. Unless we started seeing a more DotA-esque influx of crazy on-use items, I don't really think they'll put just one in. Or how about something like a very cheap version of rylais, for supports? Or perhaps an anti-rylais, where any spells used on teammates increase some base stats on them, for example any spell used on allies gives allies +5% ms +10mr/armor +5 AD/AP. there are a ton of unique options that are yet to be explored.
Could work, or maybe something like "Every spell cast on the target reduces their cooldowns by ~1-2 seconds"? Might be really good, and even might encourage Caster/support lanes (though there's more reason than items why that doesn't work).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
