EPTWhat doooooo~
[Patch 1.0.0.141: Draven] General Discussion - Page 259
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
What doooooo~ | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On July 04 2012 18:46 Alaric wrote: I've got no idea where I should invest mine. Udyr looked more complex and timing-reliant than I thought before I tried him and my top/jungle pool could be expanded, but Talon was fun too, I liked him more than LB and I feel I could learn a lot from assassin-type champs (my knack is being able to run in and just refuse to die), but getting to train mid is a pain in drafts unless you're first pick (and meh Talon is more of a counterpick) and there are tons of other mids that I already own and should train/dust off (Morg, Viktor, Ori, Xerath, Gragas). What doooooo~ I remember reading on here a while back that if you learn to play Udyr in the jungle and can gank well with him, then ganking with any other jungle is no trouble at all. I've been playing Udyr top mostly though, easily my best and favorite top lane hero | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
On July 04 2012 18:49 arb wrote: I remember reading on here a while back that if you learn to play Udyr in the jungle and can gank well with him, then ganking with any other jungle is no trouble at all. I've been playing Udyr top mostly though, easily my best and favorite top lane hero It's true. Out of most competitive junglers, (Nautilus, Shyvana, Maokai, Mundo, Lee Sin, Nocturne etc.) Udyr has one of the weakest overall gap closers in the early game. 15% for 2 seconds actually doesn't move you all that far. The hardest part of ganking is getting onto your target. Once you're on top of them, they're generally screwed unless they're pretty much under tower. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On July 04 2012 19:13 PrinceXizor wrote: Is there honestly a reason to pick shyvana ever? mundo does what she does but better right? Yes, Mundo's generally going to be alot better late game, but Shyvana is alot stronger earlier and you cant discount Burnouts intense speed boost early game. Some people will say No though, but I believe both have their places | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Going through all the posts, it essentially boils down to Eve can win lanes 'cause she doesn't take minion damage while the other guy does. But the thing is, Eve herself barely does shit for damage either. Not to mention she's squishy as fuck cause of having the lowest base stats in the game. If your strategy for winning lanes is hoping that your minions will outdamage the other champion you're gonna have a bad time. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On July 04 2012 19:25 Ryuu314 wrote: i honestly cannot possibly wrap my head around this eve can win lanes claim. Going through all the posts, it essentially boils down to Eve can win lanes 'cause she doesn't take minion damage while the other guy does. But the thing is, Eve herself barely does shit for damage either. Not to mention she's squishy as fuck cause of having the lowest base stats in the game. If your strategy for winning lanes is hoping that your minions will outdamage the other champion you're gonna have a bad time. She's NOT squishy when you get +20 armor/mres from runes and go 21 into defense. She's also not squishy starting a dorans shield she does decent damage with the +12 damage she gets from runes/masteries as well. she uses minion aggro to her advantage it lets her auto attack the enemy every time that they try to get cs. if they respond they start taking 68+ dps from the minions on top of eves autos. and if they respond eve has so much health and armor that she will naturally win the trades at level one. At the very least it forces them to not get much cs or burn all potions early until they hit lvls 2 or 3 so they can potentially beat eve in the trade while she camps inside the minion wave. the 0 damage from minions also allow her to perfectly freeze the lane at no risk since she can just tank every minion shot right outside of turret range. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On July 04 2012 19:31 Shikyo wrote: Well I have empirical evidence of an evelynn beating 1800 elo karthus solo mid, even got the replay! I once won a game where we were 5-20 behind in kills, clearly everyone who loses games with a disadvantage is just bad. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11519 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
What would matter is showing a solid winrate at a 'decent' elo over 50+ games. Oh well. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On July 04 2012 19:31 PrinceXizor wrote: She's NOT squishy when you get +20 armor/mres from runes and go 21 into defense. She's also not squishy starting a dorans shield she does decent damage with the +12 damage she gets from runes/masteries as well. she uses minion aggro to her advantage it lets her auto attack the enemy every time that they try to get cs. if they respond they start taking 68+ dps from the minions on top of eves autos. and if they respond eve has so much health and armor that she will naturally win the trades at level one. At the very least it forces them to not get much cs or burn all potions early until they hit lvls 2 or 3 so they can potentially beat eve in the trade while she camps inside the minion wave. the 0 damage from minions also allow her to perfectly freeze the lane at no risk since she can just tank every minion shot right outside of turret range. She's squishy when she has one of the lowest base hp armor mres stats and stat growth out of every melee champ in the game. Eve starts the game with 51 AD, which is lower than every other solo top champ in the game. If you get +12 damage from runes/masteries how are you also going to get the +20 armor/mres you listed earlier? Minions do decent damage, sure, but no competent top laner is going to sit in the middle of a creep wave and let every single one of your creeps whack them unless they know they can kill you. You're also completely neglecting the fact that w/e advantage you're accruing with runes is likely to be matched or nullified by your opponent's runes/masteries. Your argument essentially boils down to you winning lanes because of runes/masteries and minions doing damage for you, which sounds very crappy to me. Show a replay or vod or even a screeshot of a ranked eve win and I'll believe you. On July 04 2012 19:31 Shikyo wrote: Well I have empirical evidence of an evelynn beating 1800 elo karthus solo mid, even got the replay! Please share it with us. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On July 04 2012 19:43 Shikyo wrote: eve should be at 650 hp with doran shield, you are just saying stuff without testing right? Eve has 414 base 86 per level. Dshield gives 120 hp. At level 1 with dshield she has 620. I forgot to add the growth per level. Even with 620 hp at level 1 how are you going to overcome no sustain? Also, just to humor you guys. Eve starts with 16.5 armor. Assuming +20 armor from runes/masteries AND +10 armor from dshield you walk into lane with 46.5 armor which is shit low for a melee solo top champ. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On July 04 2012 19:49 Ryuu314 wrote: Eve has 414 base 86 per level. Dshield gives 120 hp. At level 1 with dshield she has 620. I forgot to add the growth per level. Even with 620 hp at level 1 how are you going to overcome no sustain? ...the people who don't have sustain top usually wreck with burst. Think Jarman or Pantheon. Now compare their burst to Eves. =/ | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 04 2012 19:49 Ryuu314 wrote: Eve has 414 base 86 per level. Dshield gives 120 hp. At level 1 with dshield she has 620. I forgot to add the growth per level. Even with 620 hp at level 1 how are you going to overcome no sustain? Also, just to humor you guys. Eve starts with 16.5 armor. Assuming +20 armor from runes/masteries AND +10 armor from dshield you walk into lane with 46.5 armor which is shit low for a melee solo top champ. You forgot the defensive masteries he explicitly said that he would be getting. One of those is +30 hp. I actually forgot to include the hp per level mastery as well. You will have like 20 hp5 from masteries and doran shield. Also that amount of armor isn't all that low... 3-4 armor difference isn't really anything huge Btw I'm not saying it will work just saying that you shouldn't just assume things. There actually are evelynn mains in the 2000s | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
6 AD marks 3 AD quints 3 Armor Marks 9 Armor Seal 6 Armor Glyph 3 Mres/lvl Glyph vs physical damage tops and 5 AD marks 3 AD quints 3 Mres Marks 2 Armor Seals 7 Mres Seals 9 Mres Glyphs vs Magical Damage tops 25 and 5 in offense in defense provides: 3 Damage +10 damage to turrets Exhaust Mastery (-10 armor + Mres) 3 armor 3 Mres 3hp/5 12 Hp/lvl 30 HP -2 damage taken -2 minion damage taken -1.5% damage taken -3% Aoe damage taken 3% bonus hp and 10% cc reduction So at lvl 1 with dorans shield eve has 672 hp 18.5 hp/5 Either 36 armor and 58 Mres Or 52 Armor and 38 Mres depending on matchup 67 Damage | ||
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