EPTfor instance rather than 3 arpen quints and all AD marks, i run
3 AD quints, 3 AD marks, and 6 arpen marks
the former gives 10 arpen, 8.55 AD
the more efficient one gives 10 arpen and 9.6 AD
something to consider if you also like to run both
[Role] Ranged AD - Page 4
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vertigo1
Scotland174 Posts
for instance rather than 3 arpen quints and all AD marks, i run 3 AD quints, 3 AD marks, and 6 arpen marks the former gives 10 arpen, 8.55 AD the more efficient one gives 10 arpen and 9.6 AD something to consider if you also like to run both | ||
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On June 04 2012 19:23 vertigo1 wrote: when running AD i run a mix of AD and armour pen, but i run a sort of hybrid max efficiency type for instance rather than 3 arpen quints and all AD marks, i run 3 AD quints, 3 AD marks, and 6 arpen marks the former gives 10 arpen, 8.55 AD the more efficient one gives 10 arpen and 9.6 AD something to consider if you also like to run both Well yeah, AD marks are just less efficient than AD quints. If you're running any AD on runes at all, it should be the quints. I like the idea of a little more arpen than you get with the typical 15 AD setup. | ||
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jcc
United States472 Posts
1) The AD could be lazy and had enough money to get it, making their big purchase faster and giving them maybe 1-3 minutes of dominance in the lane while the other AD just has his BF / vamp, or only a BF / pickaxe / vamp, whilst your AD keeps climbing. 2) It allows for decent snowballing in lane because you have a huge advantage in trades now (especially when you get the zeal) because you have more AD and you have more lifesteal to outsustain the other AD in a slightly extended trade. 3) It's a decently common build for Trinity's. Since Trinity's lacks alot of hard damage, BT is often gotten first and then Trinity's is finished, giving it lots of damage, utility, and just lacking large amounts of crit. 4) Also on Vayne, BT is a very common item because she is forced to be in the thicket of the fight so it allows for easier sustain, and it gives her a huge power boost in lane. These are most the reasons i typically would get BT first, or if you see others go BT. Sometimes its just playstyle or preference. Do know this though, your overall dps in a team fight (and even sometimes in trades) will be lower than someone who went IE, because IE gives a base 25% crit, and the bonus crit damage. So if he has IE / PD, and you have IE / PD / Pickaxe (thats about equal price, BT is 3000 and IE is like 4280) then he will do more dps due to his 55% crit, where you only have the 30%, but you slightly harder per hit. Typically the crit and bonus crit damage wins out. But BT first can be a great snowball item and gives typically for a strong entrance into midgame, and if you can ride it you'll get your IE befores its detrimental anyway. | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
How I explain why BT is better over IE (on most champs I play anyway) is similar to what jcc said about snowballing. When you do the math, IE vs BT + Zeal is about the same. Except you're sinking your purchases into bigger items when buying an IE. Most times, I'll be in lane with Boots, 3 Dorans, and BT, and the other AD Carry will only have Boots, 3 Dorans, BF Sword, and a Pickaxe. Even if they can afford a Cloak and not quite the entire BT, I am already repeaing the benefits of the BT, whereas they aren't repaing the benefits of a completely built IE. You can abuse this very easily, as you will essentially come out heavily on top in trades (lots of damage, plus 3x more life steal). By the time they come out with a finished IE, you will already have a Zeal, in which case you still have somewhat of an advantage, because again, you will do similar damage, but have more movement speed and lifesteal. Some people forego getting double or triple dorans so they can get IE faster. Unless you get a lot of ganks or just play really passively while farming like a beast, this will work against you so badly. So, I just feel that rushing BTs is safer over all. | ||
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socommaster123
United States578 Posts
I see it as if you go dorans youre either losing you lane heavily or youre not comfortable with your supports ability. And if youre not doing so well in lane I think you should even forgo dorans and attempt to get a pickaxe if possible. The most important part of bottom lane is your supports ability to ward and the #1 most important thing your map awareness to avoid ganks and all ins from aggressive bot lanes. | ||
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jcc
United States472 Posts
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midgettoes
Australia180 Posts
On June 08 2012 12:14 socommaster123 wrote: I dont agree jacosajh. To be honest my goal as an AD carry is ALWAYS to try to stay in lane until I have that BF sword gold in my pocket and even if farming well until my zerker greaves are done. Stacking Dorans is something I would do if I was losing my lane but you have to trust your support and your ability to play smart. I see it as if you go dorans youre either losing you lane heavily or youre not comfortable with your supports ability. And if youre not doing so well in lane I think you should even forgo dorans and attempt to get a pickaxe if possible. The most important part of bottom lane is your supports ability to ward and the #1 most important thing your map awareness to avoid ganks and all ins from aggressive bot lanes. I hope you don't forgo dorans completely. If you are playing passive and farming like a boss, that is all well and good, but 2 dorans is a staple on any tournament player for the simple reason if you just save for that pickaxe/bf sword, you find it really hard to last hit under tower, and you are such an easy gank target. The first 6 levels or so, the bonus 160 hp from dorans is a lot. If they have a jungler like lee sin, rammus, nocturne (once six), etc who can close gaps insanely quickly and you have no dorans they can often kill you even if you flash. That said, I like to get 1-2 dorans in lane then rush my IE (but very very rarely do I get there with just 1 dorans/boots, normally at least bezerker's greaves + 1-2 dorans). | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On June 08 2012 13:51 wei2coolman wrote: The question isn't about going dblade vs not going dblade, that's not even an argument. Dblade is completely necessary, the real question is 2 or 3 dblades. I feel 3 dblade is only good if laning phase is going to go long. Like three posts above you someone was suggesting not getting dblade at all unless you're losing your lane. After the HP nerf I go 2 dblade + vamp scepter into core. If dblades still gave 100 HP instead of 80 I'd probably still do 3 dblade stack every game though. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On June 08 2012 13:52 overt wrote: Like three posts above you someone was suggesting not getting dblade at all unless you're losing your lane. After the HP nerf I go 2 dblade + vamp scepter into core. If dblades still gave 100 HP instead of 80 I'd probably still do 3 dblade stack every game though. The problem is you can't get away without getting dblade. so lets say you're up 1 kill in lane. The enemy comes back with dblade. you're automatically behind, if you didn't back after hte kill and not getting a dblade yourself. Unless you can completely out play your opposing lane by a fucking mile, there's way you can get away without getting dblade. don't get me wrong, there have been cases where I feel fine going straight to BF + vamp instead of doran blade, but those cases are far and few between. the only scenario I could see my self going straight to core build is if I get early double kill in lane, and I know that the enemy AD simply doesn't have the gold to buy a dorans blade, and therefore I can get away without having to purchase one myself. | ||
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
 ) I do not go 3 dorans pretty much ever usually 2 dorans + sometimes lifesteal.For BT rush I like to do it against Urgot lanes so I dont have to worry THAT much about the poke. One thing which some could try are lifesteal quints they are quite nice and in my opinion the best quints for lategame (I know that hp/5 outsustains lifesteal) | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
The BF ashe will have ~5 dps over the dorans ashe. However, due to the extra 160 health on the dorans ashe, the dorans ashe would kill the BF ashe first. (6% lifesteal = ~70 extra health over the duel). Shot for shot, the BF sword will do much more however, dorans ashe is going to win from 100-0. Another comparison: BF + zerks vs triple dorans + zerks, BF does ~15dps more. However, the 9% lifesteal and 240 health means that again, the dorans ashe wins. My conclusion: BF rushing is a bad idea, especially since dorans are so good. There may be times where rushing for the BF will win you the lane harder than grabbing dorans (Caitlyn where you got an early lead and want to continue smashing their faces in with free shots etc) but boots 2 are just too strong, both defensively and offensively to put off until after your BF sword. Also, while I have the spreadsheet open, I just checked zerks+dorans vs double dorans. Zerk boots+1 dorans gives ~10-15% higher dps across reasonable armour ranges. I've always preferred the attack speed+MS since a single dorans is usually enough to last hit under tower until quite a bit into the game and the math backs me up that it does more damage. Tl;DR: Dorans blades are very good. Buy them. | ||
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Keniji
Netherlands2569 Posts
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Ente
Germany1795 Posts
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
On June 08 2012 19:57 Ente wrote: I mostly prefer dbl dorans over dorans/zerk because of lifesteal and if you have to buy with that amount of money you are most likely in trouble and want extra health/lifesteal (and the 10-15% are probably around 10 dps or sth which is not that high and durin that period of time you will deal most of you dmg with casts anyway) But that is probably preference A lot of it has to do with my preferred AD carries. I play Kog/Caitlyn/Ashe far more than most other AD carries and I feel that they benefit much more from the boots since their range allows for free shots and general outplays. On others that I play (sivir/graves mainly) I always grab the double dorans first. I agree though that if you back without enough money to get double dorans + boots 2 + pots, you're doing something wrong in lane. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
If you get that, I feel like the sustain you have is so high, the 160 hp you're missing don't even matter. But that's Cait, and smashing the other ADs face in is so easy with her.. On any other AD, double Dorans is probably the way to go, either with +vamp or +zerkers | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
Start with Dorans or Boots + Pots. Go into lane with the goal of farming 1300g, enough for either a. 3 Dorans if started Boots + Pots b. 2 more Doran + Boots, if started Dorans After getting 1300g, push lane and go back to buy. The other AD Carry will get crushed in trades if they're still trying to save up for a BF Sword. Even if they manage to get the rest of the farm to buy a BF Sword, they will still have no sustain and less life. | ||
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fuzzbox
235 Posts
i've seen Chaox (on Ashe mainly) do this a lot lately but once he's got 2xDBlade + Zerks + Vamp, he usually goes Zeal. that makes no sense to me. wouldn't it be better to get the Pick Axe? what's the purpose of getting Zeal early? does it provide more DPS than Pick Axe in the short run? | ||
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