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I'm starting to notice a few things I do wrong in ranked games, but I don't really know how to fix my problems
1. On solo laners (Top and mid), I push way too much. What ends up happening is the lane freezes near the opponent tower and I can't Cs without getting harrassed/taking tower shots. I try to last hit, but after level 6/7 I just push nonstop and I gotta stop doing that.
2. I play too agressive when I am behind. If I have 3 deaths to the opponent mid, i gotta hug the tower and not push, let the minions come to me to lasthit.
3. I go to ward at the worst times as support. I just go and ward without saying something, and if the AD carry doesn't notice right away and starts a fight, that person is in a 1v2 since I am out warding. Either I need to say when I am going to ward or wait until a break in the fighting.
4. I focus too much on CS. I am a CS whore. I value CSing greatly above harrassing, so much that I end up getting harrassed out of lane without countering. I know high CS and winning the lane is what wins games, but if I don't harrass I can't get top CS while the opponent is backed off.
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On April 25 2012 09:35 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I find it funny his AP tierlist has heimer infront of swain
I've seen Heimerdingers do fairly well on high ELO streams and rarely see Swain His tierlists are strictly his opinion btw, whether its wrong or not doesn't matter
ofcourse it matters. if you are full of shit it makes you look bad and your site look bad if you are given a prominent position to spout said shit.
On April 25 2012 09:46 57 Corvette wrote:
I'm starting to notice a few things I do wrong in ranked games, but I don't really know how to fix my problems
1. On solo laners (Top and mid), I push way too much. What ends up happening is the lane freezes near the opponent tower and I can't Cs without getting harrassed/taking tower shots. I try to last hit, but after level 6/7 I just push nonstop and I gotta stop doing that.
2. I play too agressive when I am behind. If I have 3 deaths to the opponent mid, i gotta hug the tower and not push, let the minions come to me to lasthit.
3. I go to ward at the worst times as support. I just go and ward without saying something, and if the AD carry doesn't notice right away and starts a fight, that person is in a 1v2 since I am out warding. Either I need to say when I am going to ward or wait until a break in the fighting.
4. I focus too much on CS. I am a CS whore. I value CSing greatly above harrassing, so much that I end up getting harrassed out of lane without countering. I know high CS and winning the lane is what wins games, but if I don't harrass I can't get top CS while the opponent is backed off.
if the lane is frozen near his tower you have to push it even harder to get to the tower, even if the tower fails to deny him any cs it will cause the lane to push back in your direction
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On April 25 2012 09:04 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
I think a caster jungle would be a champion that only gets ap ratio's on their skills, but doesn't build ap because they jungle and want to win games. Technically that would make amumu a caster jungler. Naut, singed, maokai, nunu, karthus, fiddle, (fizz but hardly anyone ever jungle fizz), (yi technically only gets ap ratio's also), amumu, and I think that covers them all. Looking at the list, my definition is almost right, except in some weird circumstances, but for the common junglers seems to fit.
edit: cow also, and technically mundo only gets ap ratios also. I think you might have to increase it to ap ratios on all the damage spells, which would still include yi, but would remove mundo.
Of those you listed, Only Karthus, Fiddle, and Fizz should be considered casters. Only Fiddle is even remotely a serious jungle pick. Look, all you people are talking about the jungle, like the jungle is necessarily the reason that real casters aren't in the jungle. IMO its more likely the champions. Ryze would be a great jungler if he had better sustain (clearly would be an OP laner then), but there is really no reason that some of the less used AP mids could have some burst taken out, and tankiness/sustain put in place.
Simplest way to do this would be with Malzahar and Heimerdinger. Both could be reworked as viable jungles without making them OP (or really upsetting anyone). Heimer's passive could be more powerful for his own turrets only, letting them tank for him in the jungle, his ganks would work decently with grenade. Probably a slight movement speed increase or mana cost rework as well.
Jungle Malz is also pretty easy to put in place. Voidling is pretty wacky, so change it. No more AD scaling, give them higher base stats, but lower /lvl scaling, while letting their health and damage scale off AP (at a reasonable ratio).
Maybe I'm being too optimistic about the simplicity of the situation, maybe no one would play those champs in the jungle neways. Oh well, I tried.
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On April 25 2012 09:48 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:35 MooMooMugi wrote:On April 25 2012 09:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I find it funny his AP tierlist has heimer infront of swain
I've seen Heimerdingers do fairly well on high ELO streams and rarely see Swain His tierlists are strictly his opinion btw, whether its wrong or not doesn't matter ofcourse it matters. if you are full of shit it makes you look bad and your site look bad if you are given a prominent position to spout said shit.
How are his tierlists spouting shit? Yeah, some champions are placed too high or too low but overall most of them are accurate
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Elementz's tier lists are based on what he thinks ap carries should do. So judging by his guidelines that he has given for supports taric should be pretty high up there... I kinda don't get adding annie into the list of supports though
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Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work.
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On April 25 2012 09:52 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:48 turdburgler wrote:On April 25 2012 09:35 MooMooMugi wrote:On April 25 2012 09:31 wei2coolman wrote:
I find it funny his AP tierlist has heimer infront of swain
I've seen Heimerdingers do fairly well on high ELO streams and rarely see Swain His tierlists are strictly his opinion btw, whether its wrong or not doesn't matter ofcourse it matters. if you are full of shit it makes you look bad and your site look bad if you are given a prominent position to spout said shit. How are his tierlists spouting shit? Yeah, some champions are placed too high or too low but overall most of them are accurate
I would say his top 5 of each list is somewhat accurate, but as the list goes longer the more absurd it is.
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On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work.
...you realize that jungle Heimer is actually somewhat worthwhile, right?
Also jungle Karthus.
Far more worthwhile than your attempts at jungle TF and jungle Malz, to be sure.
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On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work.
Cass w/ spellvamp runes and masteries might be able to jungle (w/ strong blue leash).
Also, alistar is a caster as well, and he can jungle.
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On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work.
the reason that would bork his laning is because he doesnt use mana, and when you give classes that dont use mana an amazing dps scaling shield you get jungle riven 
but i also think you are wrong to say morde is the best jungler, jungle karthus works just fine
On April 25 2012 10:03 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work. Cass w/ spellvamp runes and masteries might be able to jungle (w/ strong blue leash). Also, alistar is a caster as well, and he can jungle.
alistar is a support who happens to accidently the whole camp. you dont build any ap when jungling him so its not the same thing
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On April 25 2012 09:42 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:37 Bladeorade wrote:Guitar link your stream! Never mind a quick look on the 1st page of this sub forum found it! I'm dumb Aww you aren't streaming this game 2 edits his team straight getting shit on its pathetic
wow that's massively rude and not really fair... we aren't playing all our starters and they are like 2100-2500 elo players lol
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On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work.
i think if his abilities didnt cost health it'd help him out a whole lot
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jungle cass OP kit for jungling
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On April 25 2012 10:11 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work. i think if his abilities didnt cost health it'd help him out a whole lot
his shield more than makes up for the hp he loses through attacking, i doubt you would go through potions any quicker than expected.
On April 25 2012 10:09 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:42 arb wrote:On April 25 2012 09:37 Bladeorade wrote:Guitar link your stream! Never mind a quick look on the 1st page of this sub forum found it! I'm dumb Aww you aren't streaming this game 2 edits his team straight getting shit on its pathetic wow that's massively rude and not really fair... we aren't playing all our starters and they are like 2100-2500 elo players lol
PATHETIC
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On April 25 2012 10:03 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work. Cass w/ spellvamp runes and masteries might be able to jungle (w/ strong blue leash). Also, alistar is a caster as well, and he can jungle.
spellvamp doesn't seem like it would be very good for a jungler, armor quints just seem straight up better in every respect. On jungle cass/karthus i would prob run 21 defense with possibly mpen reds and a bunch of armor runes and open cloth + 5, then mybe rush wota as a first item, or use the patented 'bear barbacue jungle shaco build' of 4 amp tomes into revolver, sheen, and either rylais or haunting guise.
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TL too pro. Ban arguments over definition of "tank", argue definition of a "tank-cc-caster-jungler".
On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work.
Actually the AP character with the bet kit for Jungling is Amumu.
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On April 25 2012 09:46 57 Corvette wrote:
I'm starting to notice a few things I do wrong in ranked games, but I don't really know how to fix my problems
1. On solo laners (Top and mid), I push way too much. What ends up happening is the lane freezes near the opponent tower and I can't Cs without getting harrassed/taking tower shots. I try to last hit, but after level 6/7 I just push nonstop and I gotta stop doing that.
2. I play too agressive when I am behind. If I have 3 deaths to the opponent mid, i gotta hug the tower and not push, let the minions come to me to lasthit.
3. I go to ward at the worst times as support. I just go and ward without saying something, and if the AD carry doesn't notice right away and starts a fight, that person is in a 1v2 since I am out warding. Either I need to say when I am going to ward or wait until a break in the fighting.
4. I focus too much on CS. I am a CS whore. I value CSing greatly above harrassing, so much that I end up getting harrassed out of lane without countering. I know high CS and winning the lane is what wins games, but if I don't harrass I can't get top CS while the opponent is backed off.
1. In Mid they really shouldn't be able to freeze the lane, its pretty easy to push it into tower. At top you can try going behind his tower and block his creeps for a short time if you are aware of Mid/Jungler.
2. top if you are behind you need to know about the matchup. Say you are a melee whos well behind an Udyr in farm/lvls chances are you can't do anything in lane and have no hopes of winning it back alone. In that case you need to cry for ganks and consider roaming a bit if your hero has decent ganking or your team can force a Dragon and you get hopelessly zoned anyway. If you are in a recoverable lane, like WW vs Riven if you aren't to far behind, just stay defensive allow for the creep gap to creep up slowly until you get enough armor+levels that you can trade again and scale into the late game better than she does.
3. Just don't ward when the others can easily zone you out from getting back to lane as that lets them then Zone the AD for a bit, other than that its really the AD'S fault if he stays in bad position for that one extra CS, getting ganked without ward up is often far worse.
4. The 3 lanes work a little differently in that regard. And it really comes down to the matchup a lot. Typically though denying XP at top is bigger (and easier to do) than in the other lanes and can be translated into a bigger CS advantage later on. In the support+ad bot lane though it requires a sick lead or stronger lane to be able to zone someone from XP or CS. And if you don't have that trading 1 CS for a hit on an enemy hero is not worth it early on, unless he has no pots/other sustain and is already hurting. So to summarize: at top push even small advantages hard (if you have wards against surprises) at bot only push stronger advantages (especially if you aren't on voice with the support) and otherwise focus on farming+punishing mistakes. Mid is just to match-up dependent to give general advice on imho.
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On April 25 2012 10:18 Seuss wrote:TL too pro. Ban arguments over definition of "tank", argue definition of a "tank-cc-caster-jungler". Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work. Actually the AP character with the bet kit for Jungling is Amumu.
i think what people are really looking for is an ap carry who can start in the jungle, not just someone with ap ratios, and like i said, jungle karthus legit!
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AP character != Caster.
A caster, at least the type that would be shaking up the meta of the current jungle has ranged abilities that scale off AP. You guys are crazy, its like calling a Fireclaw Werebear in D2 a caster. Maokai could be a caster if sapling was a good lategame move that he could spam + arcane smash had a longer range.
Heimer is the perfect candidate for a rework into a viable jungler. He has a ability for clearing camps (Turret) and a ganking ability (Grenade).
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EPT
