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On April 25 2012 11:34 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 11:21 jadoth wrote:On April 25 2012 10:45 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 25 2012 10:18 Seuss wrote:TL too pro. Ban arguments over definition of "tank", argue definition of a "tank-cc-caster-jungler". On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work. Actually the AP character with the bet kit for Jungling is Amumu. I was talking about full Ap CASTER. Not just a character who likes ap. What makes amumu not a caster and morde or karma a caster? Its just a playstyle thing to me. I dont care what you build as much as how you play. Its why I consider Mummy tanky dps and not a caster, just cuz his skills dont really feel castery. Like if you consider mummy a caster, then you need to consider Sej a caster too. I definitly think getting ap on ammumu is good. But that doesnt really make him a caster in the same way that getting a frozen heart on ryze makes him tanky dps. I mean, they can have qualities of another class, but they play a certain way.
Mummy's different from Sejuani in that he actually has incentives in his kit to build AP and do BIG BURSTINGS, Sejuani's AP ratios are such ass you're relying solely on W sustained damage + base.
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On April 25 2012 11:30 nyxnyxnyx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 11:28 Yttrasil wrote:
What annoys me as rumble is that there is no item which has ap and armor which makes sense vs bruisers in the laning phase. Absolutely nothing, now there are two vs AP with mr which makes sense. And now even better items for characters like ww top and I have no response. ninja tabi -> wota WHAT UP BRUISERS also dolan shields
Yes and no, the items don't mix for later items and nothing about them is really special vs ad which also helps you get ap, cd etc. You can't stack dorans, go ninja tabi and wota vs every bruiser. Ninja tabi is good but the rest, not so much, at least not for Rumble. Still am missing an armor item with some kind of stats for ap, preferably without mana regen for kennen, vlad, rumble top.
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Wow so Athene's Unholy Grail was named after Athene, the streamer, since he got like 1000 friend referrals. o_O
On April 25 2012 11:33 Seiuchi wrote:
I don't know why they keep making items that build out of Fiendish Codex when the existence of blue buff makes them suboptimal. A chalice upgrade is a really good idea, but adding it onto a bunch of really inefficient stats isn't going to make it desirable.
I'll have to disagree and bet it will be super desirable. The mana regain will help mana hungry champs, even with blue buff. And even with it, it gets your CDR to 39%, so you technically only need either blue buff or blue pot, never at the same time to pretty much always have max CDR. And the MR is quite good. Now another MR option other than Abyssal and the situational lichbane.
At least now there is absolutely no reason to ever buy Morello's anymore (not that people did anyways) since you trade 600 gold and 5% CDR (good since you won't over max out CDR with blue buff) to get +5 AP, +40 MR, +3 mp5, and insane mana regen procs.
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On April 25 2012 11:40 Yttrasil wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 11:30 nyxnyxnyx wrote:On April 25 2012 11:28 Yttrasil wrote:
What annoys me as rumble is that there is no item which has ap and armor which makes sense vs bruisers in the laning phase. Absolutely nothing, now there are two vs AP with mr which makes sense. And now even better items for characters like ww top and I have no response. ninja tabi -> wota WHAT UP BRUISERS also dolan shields Yes and no, the items don't mix for later items and nothing about them is really special vs ad which also helps you get ap, cd etc. You can't stack dorans, go ninja tabi and wota vs every bruiser. Ninja tabi is good but the rest, not so much, at least not for Rumble. Still am missing an armor item with some kind of stats for ap, preferably without mana regen for kennen, vlad, rumble top.
tell me a bruiser that you need armor for, but cant stack tabi/dorans against
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On April 25 2012 11:34 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 11:21 jadoth wrote:On April 25 2012 10:45 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 25 2012 10:18 Seuss wrote:TL too pro. Ban arguments over definition of "tank", argue definition of a "tank-cc-caster-jungler". On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work. Actually the AP character with the bet kit for Jungling is Amumu. I was talking about full Ap CASTER. Not just a character who likes ap. What makes amumu not a caster and morde or karma a caster? Its just a playstyle thing to me. I dont care what you build as much as how you play. Its why I consider Mummy tanky dps and not a caster, just cuz his skills dont really feel castery. Like if you consider mummy a caster, then you need to consider Sej a caster too. I definitly think getting ap on ammumu is good. But that doesnt really make him a caster in the same way that getting a frozen heart on ryze makes him tanky dps. I mean, they can have qualities of another class, but they play a certain way.
I'm glad we aren't arguing about a subjective definition, since we just affirmed "What is a tank?" is a stupid subjective topic.
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I think people are just biased against amumu for some reason. I've seen in games that I've played 2k players with 60% win rate with him. He should get way better if the farming junglers get more prominent, like mundo.
As for ap amumu, while dcap 600 damage q's, 5% hp w'sa second , 300 damage E, and 600 damage ult are nice, you can only use qwe while damn close to melee (or going into melee). Not exactly the safest place for any ap (unless you're karthus). You'd have to have a team that goes balls deep on a moments notice. I don't think building some soraka type build would help much (though it might).
And amumu is clearly the cutest yordle (even though teemo gets showered with attention).
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On April 25 2012 11:47 nyxnyxnyx wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 11:40 Yttrasil wrote:On April 25 2012 11:30 nyxnyxnyx wrote:On April 25 2012 11:28 Yttrasil wrote:
What annoys me as rumble is that there is no item which has ap and armor which makes sense vs bruisers in the laning phase. Absolutely nothing, now there are two vs AP with mr which makes sense. And now even better items for characters like ww top and I have no response. ninja tabi -> wota WHAT UP BRUISERS also dolan shields Yes and no, the items don't mix for later items and nothing about them is really special vs ad which also helps you get ap, cd etc. You can't stack dorans, go ninja tabi and wota vs every bruiser. Ninja tabi is good but the rest, not so much, at least not for Rumble. Still am missing an armor item with some kind of stats for ap, preferably without mana regen for kennen, vlad, rumble top. tell me a bruiser that you need armor for, but cant stack tabi/dorans against
If you die once vs any of the following chars lvl 7+. Irelia, Nidalee, Olaf, Lee Sin, Wukong, Riven. You'll get zoned, cannot survive even one engage if you even run away etc.
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Cutest yordle is obviously ziggs. Wtf u smoking man. ^_^
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I don't think Teemo's attention is about his cuteness.
15 MP5 is about half a blue buff, not too bad. Add some Chalice effects and MR, and you're basically paying for a Morello's with an upgraded Chalice attached.
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On April 25 2012 11:47 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
I think people are just biased against amumu for some reason. I've seen in games that I've played 2k players with 60% win rate with him. He should get way better if the farming junglers get more prominent, like mundo.
As for ap amumu, while dcap 600 damage q's, 5% hp w'sa second , 300 damage E, and 600 damage ult are nice, you can only use qwe while damn close to melee (or going into melee). Not exactly the safest place for any ap (unless you're karthus). You'd have to have a team that goes balls deep on a moments notice. I don't think building some soraka type build would help much (though it might).
And amumu is clearly the cutest yordle (even though teemo gets showered with attention).
If you land the Q on anything remotely squishy, they're definitely fucked, and your R should secure your ability to run away if you choose. Also it's not like you'd be initiating(or if you were it's probably on the AD or AP and they're dying to you), you adapt your role to the fact that you are building AP mumu and not tanked up; this isn't some awkward concept.
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On April 25 2012 11:51 ManyCookies wrote:
I don't think Teemo's attention is about his cuteness.
15 MP5 is about half a blue buff, not too bad. Add some Chalice effects and MR , and it's basically a non shit Morello's.
15 MP5 is 50% of blue buff at level 1 with no mana items. At level 18 (still with no mana items) it's only 28%. Throw a stacked Tear and you're looking at 17%.
That's not to say that it's bad, but people really underestimate just how much mana blue gives, even after the nerf. Really the strong part of Athene's is the Chalice effect.
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On April 25 2012 11:30 Kaneh wrote:
eh my point is that the vast majority of those tanky 'casters' are viable in the jungle. mao and naut are just the ones that come to mind that were actually played in tournaments.
so complaining that casters aren't viable in the jungle is kinda silly. it's AP carrys that aren't viable, not because they can't do it, but because they are so much better off in lane.
Just like how you can jungle cait or vayne, but they're so much better off getting real farm in lane.
Who are these tanky casters? Melle is melle.
On April 25 2012 11:47 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
I think people are just biased against amumu for some reason. I've seen in games that I've played 2k players with 60% win rate with him. He should get way better if the farming junglers get more prominent, like mundo.
As for ap amumu, while dcap 600 damage q's, 5% hp w'sa second , 300 damage E, and 600 damage ult are nice, you can only use qwe while damn close to melee (or going into melee). Not exactly the safest place for any ap (unless you're karthus). You'd have to have a team that goes balls deep on a moments notice. I don't think building some soraka type build would help much (though it might).
And amumu is clearly the cutest yordle (even though teemo gets showered with attention).
I'd call Amumu a caster...if he didn't initiate by dragging himself into melle range and require melle range to be useful.
I know I'm being trolled because someone called allistar a caster and didn't get totally called out. Alistar is basically the game's paladin.
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So morello's on the PBE looks pretty good..
Morello's Evil Tome
+75 Ability Power +12 Mana Regen per 5 seconds UNIQUE Passive: +20% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Active: Inflicts target enemy champion with Grievous Wound, causing 50% reduced healing and regeneration for 6 seconds (20 second cooldown).
Thoughts?
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DAMN IT. Why do you hate healing Riot.
Wait, does Codex have that active too?
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On April 25 2012 11:49 0123456789 wrote:
Cutest yordle is obviously ziggs. Wtf u smoking man. ^_^
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i don't play full on ap mumu but i get wota on him pretty much every game and abyssals often and sorcs every once in a while. i only pick mumu when my team already is has an aoe ult type comp. every fight is dicided by how well you initiate the fight with your ult and how well your team follows up. after you blow you ult it isnt incredably important for you to survive because the fight is already won or lost. and if you are playing him in a team comp where that is not the case then i think you made the wrong pick. to me the reason to get tanking stats is so you can be upfront looking to initiate not so you can survive in the middle of their team.
also does anyone have any experience with stacking drings on mumu? i have never tried it before but it seems so perfect for him.
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On April 25 2012 11:47 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 11:34 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 25 2012 11:21 jadoth wrote:On April 25 2012 10:45 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 25 2012 10:18 Seuss wrote:TL too pro. Ban arguments over definition of "tank", argue definition of a "tank-cc-caster-jungler". On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work. Actually the AP character with the bet kit for Jungling is Amumu. I was talking about full Ap CASTER. Not just a character who likes ap. What makes amumu not a caster and morde or karma a caster? Its just a playstyle thing to me. I dont care what you build as much as how you play. Its why I consider Mummy tanky dps and not a caster, just cuz his skills dont really feel castery. Like if you consider mummy a caster, then you need to consider Sej a caster too. I definitly think getting ap on ammumu is good. But that doesnt really make him a caster in the same way that getting a frozen heart on ryze makes him tanky dps. I mean, they can have qualities of another class, but they play a certain way. I'm glad we aren't arguing about a subjective definition, since we just affirmed "What is a tank?" is a stupid subjective topic.
Yes, but that means that we can now focus on new subjective topics. Like what is a caster!
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Anyone with an offensive ability that scales with AP. AP Ashe OP.
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On April 25 2012 12:08 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 11:47 Seuss wrote:On April 25 2012 11:34 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 25 2012 11:21 jadoth wrote:On April 25 2012 10:45 Two_DoWn wrote:On April 25 2012 10:18 Seuss wrote:TL too pro. Ban arguments over definition of "tank", argue definition of a "tank-cc-caster-jungler". On April 25 2012 09:58 Two_DoWn wrote:
Heres the thing.
The AP character with the best kit for jungling is Mordekaiser. And he struggles. In order to make him better you would need to decrease the CD on his shield and increase the damage.
Now imagine what that would do to his laning.
and thats the champ CLOSEST to being able to jungle. AP just doesnt translate to jungle well because in order to be good, they would be broken in lane.
Its just a concept that doesnt work. Actually the AP character with the bet kit for Jungling is Amumu. I was talking about full Ap CASTER. Not just a character who likes ap. What makes amumu not a caster and morde or karma a caster? Its just a playstyle thing to me. I dont care what you build as much as how you play. Its why I consider Mummy tanky dps and not a caster, just cuz his skills dont really feel castery. Like if you consider mummy a caster, then you need to consider Sej a caster too. I definitly think getting ap on ammumu is good. But that doesnt really make him a caster in the same way that getting a frozen heart on ryze makes him tanky dps. I mean, they can have qualities of another class, but they play a certain way. I'm glad we aren't arguing about a subjective definition, since we just affirmed "What is a tank?" is a stupid subjective topic. Yes, but that means that we can now focus on new subjective topics. Like what is a caster!
A caster is someone who uses multiple spells on a target character, minion, or area. Udyr is not a caster, Vayne is not a caster as she only has one high cooldown ability. Amumu is a caster.
The more interesting thing is what kind of caster. AP Burst? Sustained damage? Tanky CC bot? (Chogath is obviously a "caster" for instance, since all he does is cast spells to disrupt dudes in teamfights). Close range AD Caster?
I guess there's a lot of dilineation between casters and melee "casters." I usually think of ranged magical damage casters as mages, amumu's either a tanky dps dude or a melee range burst caster.
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Comedy answer: Day9 is a caster.
edit: woops not meant to be a double post
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EPT
