EPT[Patch 1.0.0.138: Hecarim] General Discussion - Page 62
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
On April 23 2012 03:29 PrinceXizor wrote: How does this sound for a functional tri-lane bottom? [...] The lack of a jungler would be really obvious from no smite, and even if you had smite you'd still be asking to get invaded level 1. If the top laner takes smite to fake a jungle presence then they give up an offensive summoner like with TP, except smite doesn't help you in lane. It'd really just be taking the concept of all-in cheese lane taken to the extreme. You have no jungle presence so mid and top have to play scared and if they have unfavourable matchups you're in trouble. They could always decide to abandon bot lane and focus on crushing top and mid in return. I mean, say I was Vayne who has an unfavourable matchup against Cait already and I had to face this. I would tell my support to abandon bot immediately, go triple gank mid with jungle + support, then rotate top or take mid tower and let bot tower die. Then just freeze lane, deny Cait, and if they tried to go aggressive bot, then they're at risk of mid+jungle gank from being pushed up so hard. I mean, I can see it working in some cases but it's still super janky. On April 23 2012 03:41 PrinceXizor wrote: you can keep map control with tele/flash zil/veig. And then bot lane isn't a kill lane any more and in an arranged setting Mid+Jungle comes and they have summoner advantage over you? And jungler should hit level 2 pretty quickly so they can just come down and then you have a problem. It's just so janky lol. Still, empiricism > theorycraft. Go try it and tell us how it works for you. | ||
Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Basically, zilean and veigar will be extremely weak and useless outside of lane, compared to a strong support like janna or alistar + a beefy bruiser jungler, you won't have smite. You have zero dragon control because try doing dragon with no heals and no sustainy and tanky jungler. You have zero buff control because you'll still probably lose fights because no smite and a weak trilane and then later on you're poor as well becaues caitlyn is a meh carry and zilean and veigar aren't the most useful 0 cs champs. Veigar especially. You also can't dive well with veigar zil cait, just harass them away. If you were going to trilane you'd need a strong harass support like sona, maybe a kill/diving support like alistar, and then cait I guess is fine, but even then it's just way weaker than having a jungler controlling all 4 buffs and two jungles meaning theres lots of angles you need to ward against. Trilanes worked in dota because of denying, you should stop trying to make it work in LoL. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On April 22 2012 23:44 turdburgler wrote: because hes ranged 100% of the time and blinding dart blocks auto hits. On April 22 2012 23:31 BlackPaladin wrote: Yeah but teemo's poison does a lot more damage overall and he has a higher base AS. Basically, If you fight him the moment you engage on him with q + e active he just blinds you. You miss 3 or more of your auto's even though he takes the magic damage, and then he still out dps's you from poison anyway. You either will die if you keep fighting or you run, in which case he can move quick and move faster than you with your w on, getting a few more potshots, and you're going to end up with a lot less hp cause of poison ticks. He's like the most abusive laner in the game except for like....yorick, and maybe kennen. Come on guys these arguments make no sense. I don't know how the kayle teemo matchup goes but base attack speed means nothing in trades. You don't miss 3 of your autos unless he maxes Q and even then you'll likely miss 2. The E portion still hits, a point you guys didn't even read. The magic damage on teemo's poison does not outdps kayle's E as it does less damage, is a dot, and doesn't stack, and you just said he maxed Q so he has 1/2 points in E. Teemo's poison at level 2 does 12 damage on every application but the last which will add 66. Kayle's E at level 5 adds near 100 on every auto. Kayle is ranged 50% of the time and her reckoning is a slow. How is that relevant? Kayle can even just walk away from the blind and trade a Q for a Q. I won't argue that the matchup goes either way but these arguments you guys provide are stupid. I don't like arguing with people when they make claims that are obviously wrong or that have no relevance. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On April 23 2012 04:02 JackDino wrote: I dont understand the veigar pick anyways, he's weak early, squishy etc, his harass isn't really that good. You want retarded harass bottoms just pick mantheon. So stronk bottoms. Renekton really good for that too. Crocodile poops on squishies early game, it kinda scary... I could actually see him being strong for a trilane, because he can also slip away and farm the jungles DotA style without the need to funnel them into towers. I dunno, only way to do it without getting rolled would be to run some really well scaling mids/top laner and and AD carry that can kill everything when 6 item like Kog'maw/Twitch. Twitch would be a good pick too, because he could slip away to gank and give farms to Veigar, not to mention the only real reason he not picked is because he a bad laner if the other team smart enough to buy pinks... But you get Twitch really farmed because it 3v2, that could be pretty good. | ||
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jadoth
694 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also, I read you talk about the login screen music, but for me it is playing the regular one (same as before Lulu patch). Is there a different one that for some reason I didn't get for Hecarim? Also EUW totally fucked up right now, can't connect even tho it says "available". | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On April 23 2012 04:27 iCanada wrote: Renekton really good for that too. Crocodile poops on squishies early game, it kinda scary... I could actually see him being strong for a trilane, because he can also slip away and farm the jungles DotA style without the need to funnel them into towers. I dunno, only way to do it without getting rolled would be to run some really well scaling mids/top laner and and AD carry that can kill everything when 6 item like Kog'maw/Twitch. Twitch would be a good pick too, because he could slip away to gank and give farms to Veigar, not to mention the only real reason he not picked is because he a bad laner if the other team smart enough to buy pinks... But you get Twitch really farmed because it 3v2, that could be pretty good. veigar has a low cooldown harras spell a lot of mana regen build in, and a good stun, his ult is also useful with less farm due to it scaling with opp AP as well. veigar scales well with levels in terms of base damage as well. which is another reason. | ||
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chalice
United States1945 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On April 23 2012 04:40 PrinceXizor wrote: veigar has a low cooldown harras spell a lot of mana regen build in, and a good stun, his ult is also useful with less farm due to it scaling with opp AP as well. veigar scales well with levels in terms of base damage as well. which is another reason. Then go like Galio mid (to farm Wraiths+Wolves whenever they up) and like Chogath/Vlad/Lulu top. Give Galio blue, then AD carry red every 5 minutes. I dunno if I like Cait as the carry though, she beats everyone in lane anyway. A carry that doesn't normally win lanes and scales harder would be better imo. Cho would be ideal because then you wouldn't need smite to control Baron. I could see it working... you'd rely on stomping their bot lane pretty hard though, I dunno if you could make it work consistently. Would require some smart creep wave manipulation though otherwise they'd just farm at tower and it;d be a waste. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On April 23 2012 04:50 sob3k wrote: How do trilanes work in Dota? In LOL you never have more than one person CSing in a lane, and if you try they fuck up each others last hits a lot. Is only one person CSing in a Dota trilane or do they alternate waves or what? One person CS's, one person denies enemy creeps, and the other funnels creeps from the jungle into the trilane tower for gold/XP. The two supports trade on denying/jungling so they can get gold/items/wards too. The jungle gold a big part of it, and the fact that you can guarantee they get next to zero CS as well. I really think that with the right combination you could make it so the enemy AD gets zero CS in LoL too, just no one has really tried that hard. | ||
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SafeWord
United States522 Posts
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
On April 23 2012 04:31 Alaric wrote: Did somebody try Swain and can say something about his new auto-anim'? It's a lot better. The wind-up is faster and the attack frame is more explicit. | ||
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nyxnyxnyx
Indonesia2978 Posts
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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