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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 17 2012 07:42 Ferrose wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 07:32 Juicyfruit wrote:On April 17 2012 07:18 Slayer91 wrote:
It pays for itself in both regen and gold/10. I don't know why you think regen is valueless especially in jungle you're going to use a fuckload of pots if you don't have it. Or else give up lots of time and farm to back more. I mean from the perspective of a support player. You silly junglers can build whatever you like. Probably should have clarified. That said, I've seen saint do that thing where he kills 3 camps then recall and then get back to camp 1 on respawn, so I think the need for sustain is a little overstated when you can do the recall and just keep pots on hand when you need to gank. That defeats the purpose of jungling though. You need to be mobile, able to be anywhere on the map in a short time. If you're constantly going back you won't be able to gank, and the other team can roam through your jungle because you're sitting at the fountain waiting for your health to regen.
Not exactly. You drink potions as the opportunity presents itself and recall without using the potion during the 80% of the time where you finish clearing and can't do anything. For as convenient as philo stone is, you can never change the fact that it has no battle stats.
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On April 17 2012 08:03 Two_DoWn wrote:
I thought we decided like 2 months ago that wriggles was the way to go on skarner cuz you cant spam q even WITH shurelias.
na i think that was just you.
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On April 17 2012 07:42 Ferrose wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 07:32 Juicyfruit wrote:On April 17 2012 07:18 Slayer91 wrote:
It pays for itself in both regen and gold/10. I don't know why you think regen is valueless especially in jungle you're going to use a fuckload of pots if you don't have it. Or else give up lots of time and farm to back more. I mean from the perspective of a support player. You silly junglers can build whatever you like. Probably should have clarified. That said, I've seen saint do that thing where he kills 3 camps then recall and then get back to camp 1 on respawn, so I think the need for sustain is a little overstated when you can do the recall and just keep pots on hand when you need to gank. That defeats the purpose of jungling though. You need to be mobile, able to be anywhere on the map in a short time. If you're constantly going back you won't be able to gank, and the other team can roam through your jungle because you're sitting at the fountain waiting for your health to regen.
It isn't just ganking, but doing anything beyond clearing small camps that becomes an issue. A good jungler is going to bounce between his jungle and ganks, enemy camps, buff camps, objectives etc. If you have to recall after every gank or alternative action because you have no sustain you're going to fall way behind the opposing jungler.
On April 17 2012 08:05 Juicyfruit wrote:
Not exactly. You drink potions as the opportunity presents itself and recall without using the potion during the 80% of the time where you finish clearing and can't do anything. For as convenient as philo stone is, you can never change the fact that it has no battle stats.
You don't understand jungling if you think you have nothing to do 80% of the time you finish a clear.
Even when you don't have a clear action to take there's value in running directly back to your starting camp instead of recalling. It keeps you closer to lanes, giving you greater presence should something happen. Moreover the vast majority of junglers can't clear so fast that they can recall and still make it back into the jungle before it respawns (at least until much, much later in the game), so there's time saved as well.
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On April 17 2012 08:08 jadoth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 08:03 Two_DoWn wrote:
I thought we decided like 2 months ago that wriggles was the way to go on skarner cuz you cant spam q even WITH shurelias. na i think that was just you.
I've been going wriggles wits on him since that discussion and it's pretty legit. I don't play him enough to say I know whether it's better than shurelya's but it's definitely good.
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anyone think that nunu should be reverted back to his old state (prenerf)? his jungle is incredibly slow and if the Q was buffed back i don't think he'd be that bad or too good. anyone else think so?
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On April 17 2012 08:39 wussleeQ wrote:
anyone think that nunu should be reverted back to his old state (prenerf)? his jungle is incredibly slow and if the Q was buffed back i don't think he'd be that bad or too good. anyone else think so?
Try bruiser nunu. The asp buff really helped out if you run ad centric runes and masteries.
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On April 17 2012 08:39 wussleeQ wrote:
anyone think that nunu should be reverted back to his old state (prenerf)? his jungle is incredibly slow and if the Q was buffed back i don't think he'd be that bad or too good. anyone else think so?
I think nunu could definitely do with a revert on his past nerfs. but even then I'm not sure he'll be a top pick like he used to be. he simply jungles far too slowly in new jungle and with the introduction of the newer junglers, he won't be exceptional in the areas he used to shine (gank/counterjungling).
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has there ever been prominent hacks in this game? its surprisingly clean for the biggest game atm
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On April 17 2012 08:10 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 07:42 Ferrose wrote:On April 17 2012 07:32 Juicyfruit wrote:On April 17 2012 07:18 Slayer91 wrote:
It pays for itself in both regen and gold/10. I don't know why you think regen is valueless especially in jungle you're going to use a fuckload of pots if you don't have it. Or else give up lots of time and farm to back more. I mean from the perspective of a support player. You silly junglers can build whatever you like. Probably should have clarified. That said, I've seen saint do that thing where he kills 3 camps then recall and then get back to camp 1 on respawn, so I think the need for sustain is a little overstated when you can do the recall and just keep pots on hand when you need to gank. That defeats the purpose of jungling though. You need to be mobile, able to be anywhere on the map in a short time. If you're constantly going back you won't be able to gank, and the other team can roam through your jungle because you're sitting at the fountain waiting for your health to regen. It isn't just ganking, but doing anything beyond clearing small camps that becomes an issue. A good jungler is going to bounce between his jungle and ganks, enemy camps, buff camps, objectives etc. If you have to recall after every gank or alternative action because you have no sustain you're going to fall way behind the opposing jungler. Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 08:05 Juicyfruit wrote:
Not exactly. You drink potions as the opportunity presents itself and recall without using the potion during the 80% of the time where you finish clearing and can't do anything. For as convenient as philo stone is, you can never change the fact that it has no battle stats. You don't understand jungling if you think you have nothing to do 80% of the time you finish a clear. Even when you don't have a clear action to take there's value in running directly back to your starting camp instead of recalling. It keeps you closer to lanes, giving you greater presence should something happen. Moreover the vast majority of junglers can't clear so fast that they can recall and still make it back into the jungle before it respawns (at least until much, much later in the game), so there's time saved as well.
The thing is that the 8mp5 from philo isn't even going to let you jungle indefinitely, and I certainly would be building something else with that money that would directly result in faster clearing or even better sustain. Philo stone happens to be nice because it's good enough AND it builds into shurelyas. I don't think it would be a good item at all if it didn't build into shurelyas. That's all.
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On April 17 2012 09:13 Kenpachi wrote:
has there ever been prominent hacks in this game? its surprisingly clean for the biggest game atm
there used be a couple of glitches that you could do in the client where it was possible to use skins that you don't own but i'm pretty sure mostly everything is serverside making the game impossible to hack
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On April 17 2012 09:13 Kenpachi wrote:
has there ever been prominent hacks in this game? its surprisingly clean for the biggest game atm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason why hacks aren't really all that feasible is because the majority of the information in games is stored server side. The Riot servers only feed your computer the information you can visibly see on your screen. this is why in replays when you look at parts of the map where you weren't physically viewing you are missing some stuff like health bars. because the info is all server side, hacking becomes much much harder as you'd have to hack the servers themselves or manipulate the client/data it sends to the servers without getting detected.
altho if I remember correctly, there was a period of time when someone figured out how to manipulate the client so that you could zoom out further than normally possible using a third-party program. that was stopped in like a week or two and I think it was a bannable offense if you used the exploit/program after Riot came out and said you're not supposed to.
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Which basically means that in order for the game to have replay support at a professionally acceptable level, you'd have to download the replay from the server after the game. No doubt recording every detail of the game server side adds a not insignificant load to the server and they're still busy busy optimizing or whatever it is their programmers actually do for their money.
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On April 17 2012 09:26 Inschato wrote:
Which basically means that in order for the game to have replay support at a professionally acceptable level, you'd have to download the replay from the server after the game. No doubt recording every detail of the game server side adds a not insignificant load to the server and they're still busy busy optimizing or whatever it is their programmers actually do for their money.
I don't think it's a server load problem. If I remember correctly it's more of a coding/client issue. I know DotA2 basically does what you described for their replay system and it's not really an issue. The problem with LoL replays is that the LoL client is shitty.
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On April 17 2012 09:13 Juicyfruit wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 08:10 Seuss wrote:On April 17 2012 07:42 Ferrose wrote:On April 17 2012 07:32 Juicyfruit wrote:On April 17 2012 07:18 Slayer91 wrote:
It pays for itself in both regen and gold/10. I don't know why you think regen is valueless especially in jungle you're going to use a fuckload of pots if you don't have it. Or else give up lots of time and farm to back more. I mean from the perspective of a support player. You silly junglers can build whatever you like. Probably should have clarified. That said, I've seen saint do that thing where he kills 3 camps then recall and then get back to camp 1 on respawn, so I think the need for sustain is a little overstated when you can do the recall and just keep pots on hand when you need to gank. That defeats the purpose of jungling though. You need to be mobile, able to be anywhere on the map in a short time. If you're constantly going back you won't be able to gank, and the other team can roam through your jungle because you're sitting at the fountain waiting for your health to regen. It isn't just ganking, but doing anything beyond clearing small camps that becomes an issue. A good jungler is going to bounce between his jungle and ganks, enemy camps, buff camps, objectives etc. If you have to recall after every gank or alternative action because you have no sustain you're going to fall way behind the opposing jungler. On April 17 2012 08:05 Juicyfruit wrote:
Not exactly. You drink potions as the opportunity presents itself and recall without using the potion during the 80% of the time where you finish clearing and can't do anything. For as convenient as philo stone is, you can never change the fact that it has no battle stats. You don't understand jungling if you think you have nothing to do 80% of the time you finish a clear. Even when you don't have a clear action to take there's value in running directly back to your starting camp instead of recalling. It keeps you closer to lanes, giving you greater presence should something happen. Moreover the vast majority of junglers can't clear so fast that they can recall and still make it back into the jungle before it respawns (at least until much, much later in the game), so there's time saved as well. The thing is that the 8mp5 from philo isn't even going to let you jungle indefinitely, and I certainly would be building something else with that money that would directly result in faster clearing or even better sustain. Philo stone happens to be nice because it's good enough AND it builds into shurelyas. I don't think it would be a good item at all if it didn't build into shurelyas. That's all.
It's a fair point that Philo would be considerably worse without Shurelya's, but most of the points you've made attempting to support that have been fairly nonsensical from a jungle perspective.
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On April 17 2012 09:13 Kenpachi wrote:
has there ever been prominent hacks in this game? its surprisingly clean for the biggest game atm
There are many official supported " add-on" on CN server. For example, the add-on will automatically time jungle buff, dragon and baron for you. It will ping 20sec before one re-spawns.
It also evaluate your opponent and your team in term of points before the match begin so you have a general idea how good people are.
I personally hate the timer add-on since in low elo it really a big advantage to time buff since normally people cant time it themselves.
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On April 17 2012 09:28 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 09:13 Juicyfruit wrote:On April 17 2012 08:10 Seuss wrote:On April 17 2012 07:42 Ferrose wrote:On April 17 2012 07:32 Juicyfruit wrote:On April 17 2012 07:18 Slayer91 wrote:
It pays for itself in both regen and gold/10. I don't know why you think regen is valueless especially in jungle you're going to use a fuckload of pots if you don't have it. Or else give up lots of time and farm to back more. I mean from the perspective of a support player. You silly junglers can build whatever you like. Probably should have clarified. That said, I've seen saint do that thing where he kills 3 camps then recall and then get back to camp 1 on respawn, so I think the need for sustain is a little overstated when you can do the recall and just keep pots on hand when you need to gank. That defeats the purpose of jungling though. You need to be mobile, able to be anywhere on the map in a short time. If you're constantly going back you won't be able to gank, and the other team can roam through your jungle because you're sitting at the fountain waiting for your health to regen. It isn't just ganking, but doing anything beyond clearing small camps that becomes an issue. A good jungler is going to bounce between his jungle and ganks, enemy camps, buff camps, objectives etc. If you have to recall after every gank or alternative action because you have no sustain you're going to fall way behind the opposing jungler. On April 17 2012 08:05 Juicyfruit wrote:
Not exactly. You drink potions as the opportunity presents itself and recall without using the potion during the 80% of the time where you finish clearing and can't do anything. For as convenient as philo stone is, you can never change the fact that it has no battle stats. You don't understand jungling if you think you have nothing to do 80% of the time you finish a clear. Even when you don't have a clear action to take there's value in running directly back to your starting camp instead of recalling. It keeps you closer to lanes, giving you greater presence should something happen. Moreover the vast majority of junglers can't clear so fast that they can recall and still make it back into the jungle before it respawns (at least until much, much later in the game), so there's time saved as well. The thing is that the 8mp5 from philo isn't even going to let you jungle indefinitely, and I certainly would be building something else with that money that would directly result in faster clearing or even better sustain. Philo stone happens to be nice because it's good enough AND it builds into shurelyas. I don't think it would be a good item at all if it didn't build into shurelyas. That's all. It's a fair point that Philo would be considerably worse without Shurelya's, but most of the points you've made attempting to support that have been fairly nonsensical from a jungle perspective.
Eh I phrased it poorly. I mean, it's true that 80% of the time you clear you have nothing to do. It doesn't mean that you shouldn't stay on the map or be ready to take action, but having potions on hand will let you respond either way so the only real loss from ditching philo is that once every 2-3-clears you'll be recalling and running back to wolves instead of going back to wolves directly, bearing in mind that you are picking your recall timing carefully and compensating for running out of steam at a bad time with potions.
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Timer addons develop bad habits. As you get up in skill level you need to start planning your actions minutes ahead of buff/dragon/baron respawns. 20 seconds is enough time to figure out you're too late to be where you need to be or doing what you need to be doing.
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Anyone else getting this bug, after every ranked game it doesn't say anything it just auto exits. No skip stats or anything QQ.
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Copy-pasting from 2 pages back, any news on the release date for the next patch? A friend told me tommorrow, but I can't find confirmation on that.
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EPT
