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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content.
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Hmm thornmail nerf?
Thornmail
Returned damage reduced to 15% instead of 30%
The damage is now returned as true damage instead of magic damage
What is the expected magic resist of a ranged ad carry?
edit: did some quick math. Better late game, worse early game. But late game the opponent is more likely to have more lifesteal because they finished their IE/PD. Someone like graves gets really close to the 50% magic damage reduction with just his passive and mr/lvl blues. You also need to consider your own armor, and how much the opponent would be lifestealing from you, which gives you 4 total variables you'd have to graph out.
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On February 27 2012 14:40 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:37 gtrsrs wrote:
pretty sure those are supposed to go under tristana ^_^
well the first one is probably a timer to show when move-quick's passive is up
the second one is a trist range-increase buff The move-quick thing makes sense, just wanted to confirm based on what someone else thought, but Trist's doesn't make sense. Draw a Bead(Innate): Tristana increases her autoattack range by 9 every time she levels up (does not include level one). At level 18, the bonus is 153 (703 total range). Where does 77 or 82 fall in there?
oh! it's a move-speed buff on move-quick
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On February 27 2012 14:40 De4ngus wrote:
thornmail change is a nerf im pretty sure since the people you buy it vs dont have that much mr but iunno some math dude can help me out. monte halp me!!
generally people who buy thornmail have 0 mpen, so it's a buff against people with 100+ mr, and worse otherwise. Slightly better against AD's who went QSS, about the same vs AD with GA, assuming they have aegis buff.
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On February 27 2012 14:42 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Hmm thornmail nerf?
Thornmail
Returned damage reduced to 15% instead of 30%
The damage is now returned as true damage instead of magic damage
What is the expected magic resist of a ranged ad carry?
Yeah, the change makes it do less damage to people with < 100 MR, more to people with > 100 MR. With QSS, AD carries will have 86 MR, with a little extra from runes/auras/masteries.
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On February 27 2012 14:43 gtrsrs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:40 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 27 2012 14:37 gtrsrs wrote:
pretty sure those are supposed to go under tristana ^_^
well the first one is probably a timer to show when move-quick's passive is up
the second one is a trist range-increase buff The move-quick thing makes sense, just wanted to confirm based on what someone else thought, but Trist's doesn't make sense. Draw a Bead(Innate): Tristana increases her autoattack range by 9 every time she levels up (does not include level one). At level 18, the bonus is 153 (703 total range). Where does 77 or 82 fall in there? oh! it's a move-speed buff on move-quick
Am I an idiot?
Still not following you.
I know it wasn't translated perfectly but what does range have to do with anything if it's a move-quick buff? And once again what of those numbers?
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On February 27 2012 14:34 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Its like he gets demolished top lane. So you need to jungle him. But he's really slow compared to the udyrs and shyvannas and there isn't enough gold in the jungle for him to get scary anyways.
So just really hard to make him work.
Edit: why did they decide to nerf the AP ratio on karma wth
i've been doing well with jax, I think he's good.
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On February 27 2012 14:35 WaveofShadow wrote:What the fuck do these mean under Teemo? The passive velocity now shows the payback period.Range per level increased to 82 instead of 77.Arming Noxious Trap duration reduced to 1 second instead of 2.
The translation is bad. It's his health (not range)that is increased per level, and after you get hit by an enemy,you can now see how much time is left before the passive part of your W kicks in.
EDIT: Also, these patch notes appear to be fake based on what people are saying in the french thread.
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On February 27 2012 14:53 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:34 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Its like he gets demolished top lane. So you need to jungle him. But he's really slow compared to the udyrs and shyvannas and there isn't enough gold in the jungle for him to get scary anyways.
So just really hard to make him work.
Edit: why did they decide to nerf the AP ratio on karma wth i've been doing well with jax, I think he's good.
Plz tell me all your secrets! ^_^
Atm I'm just not playing jax as much as I'd like to. I'm trying to save up as much IP as I can for a couple champions, a new runes page and some runes. So I'm just spamming warwick, pantheon & shyvanna every game.
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It's like they have no clue about karma at all. 
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okokok im pretty sure the patch notes are fake now. there are other similar posts showing up like the stealth rework one where xypherious said its fake.
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On February 27 2012 14:34 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Its like he gets demolished top lane.
Oh lol.
He's like the biggest lane bully atm and destroys anybody 1v1, which he can force XD Just take the right runes (armor/MR) and you're good to go. 0 need of offensive runes on him to destroy anybody.
Jax is the #1 sleeping OP atm. 2s full dodge is just retarded in teamfights, + AoE stun, + jump, + insane damage with rageblade, + ult to multiply that a little bit more... You just build him tank + rageblade and go melt faces.
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On February 27 2012 15:09 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:34 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Its like he gets demolished top lane. Oh lol. He's like the biggest lane bully atm and destroys anybody 1v1, which he can force XD Just take the right runes (armor/MR) and you're good to go. 0 need of offensive runes on him to destroy anybody. Jax is the #1 sleeping OP atm. 2s full dodge is just retarded in teamfights, + AoE stun, + jump, + insane damage with rageblade, + ult to multiply that a little bit more... You just build him tank + rageblade and go melt faces.
I don't know. Like all the champions I play top - warwick, shyvanna, gangplank etc I just feel I shit on all the jax I've played against. Like triple the CS and two three kills.
Ofc if you manage to farm decently well, jax is a beast in teamfights but that has always been true anyways.
I probably am just not playing him correctly. If either you or USnip could post a few replays maybe I could see how you guys are doing it.
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Magic damage is reduced by 50% when you have 100MR, so if your target has 100+ MR then its a buff.
Let's say you're playing AD, since that's who's affected by thornmail the most. At level 18 you have 13 MR from flat runes, and a QSS providing 56 MR. Excluding any sorakas or Aegis or anything of the sort, including the tank's MPen, you'll end up with 99 MR. That's just below the 50% reduction rate.
But this is with minimal MR, since you have 1 MR item, no buffs and flat instead of scaling. Thornmail will be less effective against minimum MR AD carries in the late late game, and much less effective before that. It will, however, probably be better against everyone else (who likely aren't reliant on autos >.>)
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On February 27 2012 15:34 seRapH wrote:
Magic damage is reduced by 50% when you have 100MR, so if your target has 100+ MR then its a buff.
Let's say you're playing AD, since that's who's affected by thornmail the most. At level 18 you have 13 MR from flat runes, and a QSS providing 56 MR. Excluding any sorakas or Aegis or anything of the sort, including the tank's MPen, you'll end up with 99 MR. That's just below the 50% reduction rate.
But this is with minimal MR, since you have 1 MR item, no buffs and flat instead of scaling. Thornmail will be less effective against minimum MR AD carries in the late late game, and much less effective before that. It will, however, probably be better against everyone else (who likely aren't reliant on autos >.>)
The real change is that you won't lose hp now once you've gotten 15% lifesteal, instead of it being an amalgamation of lifesteal and magic resist. If the change is real it's a huge nerf to thornmail. 3 points in talents and a vamp scepter and thornmail doesn't do any damage to you.
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my thoughts on stuff:
Brand:
Fixed a bug that left some spell effects from Brand permanently on the ground
yay no more annoying brand poops!
Shen:
Fixed bug in dash sound shadows
Fixed bug on sound unwavering support
shen no longer viable
Madred's Bloodrazor damage increased to 40 instead of 30.
wouldn't bloodrazor be insanely good on ww now since they buffed the AD scaling on his ult by a shit ton?
Small camp golem:
Speed of minions increased to 300 instead of 180.
Damage the golem average increased to 59 instead of 54.
wont do anything cuz you can still just kite them back and forth lol? maybe make it a little slower to do, but as long as heroes can move faster you can still kite them all day
Fixed a bug where Malphite targets appeared to be in the area of effect spell but do not suffer the effects.
thank fking god
Heavenly Wave
Range increased to 500 instead of 400
Fixed a bug where heavenly wave fires in the wrong direction
Cooldown increased to 7 seconds instead of 6.
Base heal reduced to 30/50/70/85/105/120 instead of 35/55/75/95/115/135
Increased damage to 90/125/165/200/240/270 instead of 70/110/150/190/230/270
AP ratio changed to 0.5 instead of 0.6
Mantra stack time reduced to 25/20/15 seconds from 30/25/20
soooo where's that knockback and silence again?
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On February 27 2012 15:52 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 15:34 seRapH wrote:
Magic damage is reduced by 50% when you have 100MR, so if your target has 100+ MR then its a buff.
Let's say you're playing AD, since that's who's affected by thornmail the most. At level 18 you have 13 MR from flat runes, and a QSS providing 56 MR. Excluding any sorakas or Aegis or anything of the sort, including the tank's MPen, you'll end up with 99 MR. That's just below the 50% reduction rate.
But this is with minimal MR, since you have 1 MR item, no buffs and flat instead of scaling. Thornmail will be less effective against minimum MR AD carries in the late late game, and much less effective before that. It will, however, probably be better against everyone else (who likely aren't reliant on autos >.>) The real change is that you won't lose hp now once you've gotten 15% lifesteal, instead of it being an amalgamation of lifesteal and magic resist. If the change is real it's a huge nerf to thornmail. 3 points in talents and a vamp scepter and thornmail doesn't do any damage to you.
That's not actually true, since lifesteal applies post mitigation - or armour reduces the amount they lifesteal from you. So the amount of lifesteal you need to mitigate the damage done increases as the opponent gets more armour (which thornmail gives a hefty chunk of).
TBH though the whole argument of "lifesteal negates thornmail" has always seemed a little spurious to me, because you could just as well reverse that and say thornmail negates lifesteal. What lifesteal is, in a fight, is mitigation against sustained damage - if you're outputting, say, 400 dps with 10% lifesteal you're essentially mitigating 40 dps against yourself - whether that 40 dps comes from thornmail or from right clicks is irrelevant. And anecdotally, I find it easier to deal with fed ad carries in lategame as a bruiser when I have the thornmail and they cant just sustain through my auto attacks by lifestealing through all the damage I output - thornmail is still adding a shit ton to my dps output in that scenario, it's just that that dps output as a whole is reduced by the ad carry's damage/lifesteal combo.
I mean, granted they can just ignore you and tank you by shooting something squishier, but that suggests that the squishy thing fucked up by being in range - or by not blowing the enemy out of position ad carry up. At any rate, it's no use trying to charge them at all if they're just gonna win the fight anyway - at least thornmail allows you to win the fight sometimes. IDK.
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They should just make thornmail something like barbed armor in hon, where instead of a passive you activate it for 80% returned damage for like 5 seconds.
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Thornmail is pretty imba on dominion. Just build mallet, thornmail, negatron, wits+MBR on warwick and trololol as you kill everything.
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On February 27 2012 15:09 mr_tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 14:34 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote:
Its like he gets demolished top lane. Oh lol. He's like the biggest lane bully atm and destroys anybody 1v1, which he can force XD Just take the right runes (armor/MR) and you're good to go. 0 need of offensive runes on him to destroy anybody. Jax is the #1 sleeping OP atm. 2s full dodge is just retarded in teamfights, + AoE stun, + jump, + insane damage with rageblade, + ult to multiply that a little bit more... You just build him tank + rageblade and go melt faces.
I'm just so underwhelmed by him lately compared to other "hypercarries" that could be played top. He has very little sticking power (unless you grab a FMallet or something), no innate survival other than CS, and he just feels squishy unless you build tank, which sucks because you're encouraged to jump in on a carry every fight.
I dunno. Why would I play Jax when I can get the same or better performance out of Trynd, Riven, or someone else like that with less risk?
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EPT
